I want to know if I should be excited or if I should move on and give up on mmorpgs. I keep hearing mixed messages from Bioware from them saying it'll be heavily story driven like a single player game, which will mean it'll be heavily zoned and instanced. Then the next thing they say is having open worlds is very important for an mmorpg and it's like just frigging show me how the game is designed so I can make up my mind. If it's laid out like WoW with the instances built into the world naturally, then I'll be happy but if it's like Age of Conan, Guild Wars or EQ2 then I know to move on and not care.

Other things too explaining how it'll be a signle player like game and every class will have their own story. Well will I be able to play with 4 of my friends in a group and progress through the game will them all? That seems like the Star Wars experience to me and if I can do that then great but if not then let me move on!

Will I be able to switch from Jedi to Sith in the game like Anakin did to Vader?

Just tell us already and stop keeping things a secret cause thigns like how the world is designed can't change now!

Your assuming that heavily story driven = solo player.

If it's an MMO expect MMO qualities.

TH

I get you man. I feel your pain. I also feel that we really have no choice but to wait until some folks start talking about actual gameplay from 1st hand experience. Until then it's all just rumours masquerading as facts. It sucks but I will delay my gratification.

They havent been secret about that..the game IS story driven in that EACH players class has a complete storyline that has more choices adn content than all the choices in previous KOTOR games combined. That wasnt a secret...it was in teh dev dairy video. And the storyline advances like any other...by completing quests, you can group with friends and help with each others story lines.

And yes I believe they said something to the effect that your choices will have an impact on your alignment and you can go from good to bad as well has having your npc companions turn on you and attack.

Try going to their website and watch the trailer videos..pretty much everything you asked about they answered on them..its called research. Plus they show some images from in the game that look pretty damn good already

e3.gamespot.com/video/6211393/

Forward to 8:53 - The question is about PvP but I think this answers your question.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

I want to know if I should be excited or if I should move on and give up on mmorpgs. I keep hearing mixed messages from Bioware from them saying it'll be heavily story driven like a single player game, which will mean it'll be heavily zoned and instanced. Then the next thing they say is having open worlds is very important for an mmorpg and it's like just frigging show me how the game is designed so I can make up my mind. If it's laid out like WoW with the instances built into the world naturally, then I'll be happy but if it's like Age of Conan, Guild Wars or EQ2 then I know to move on and not care.

Other things too explaining how it'll be a signle player like game and every class will have their own story. Well will I be able to play with 4 of my friends in a group and progress through the game will them all? That seems like the Star Wars experience to me and if I can do that then great but if not then let me move on!

Will I be able to switch from Jedi to Sith in the game like Anakin did to Vader?

 

Just tell us already and stop keeping things a secret cause thigns like how the world is designed can't change now!

The give mixed and confusing info because they want you buy the game, no matter what your tastes are they want you to think you will like the game. Not only bioware, most companies do this. the best is to wait for a free trial or an open beta.

Gameplay video should be up on friday and it might reveal some facts. :/ combat style, user interface, world design (zones, instances) etc.

They have stated multiple times that no info is going to be released on any content that isn't fully integrated into the game to prevent over hyping of features that may not make it in... as this has been the downfall of most recent mmo's, not the lack of good content, but the lack of content that players feel they were "promised" from the beginning... very smart approach in my opinion.

Edit - The recent E3 footage and interviews hint at an open world with instanced storyline quests.  You can group with other players during these quests and during conversation pieces your teamates' responses and actions are weighed against your own to determine the response of the npc, which can dramatically alter gamplay.  The storyline quests seem pretty epic as well by description... but I'm not going to say for sure until I see for myself.  They have said that PvP will be a big part of the game.

Originally posted by NecroHelium

They have stated multiple times that no info is going to be released on any content that isn't fully integrated into the game to prevent over hyping of features that may not make it in... as this has been the downfall of most recent mmo's, not the lack of good content, but the lack of content that players feel they were "promised" from the beginning... very smart approach in my opinion.

I think you are missing what the OP is talking about.   I think he is wondering about the core of the game play.  Is it like Guild Wars?  Central zones where players meet up surrounded by instances.   Is it like AoC where the world is zoned and travel is pretty much linear.   How is combat...just basic combat.    Is it like most MMORPG's click on target and spam hotkeys or is it like AoC, directional and you can do combo's or is it like some other games - click on target and then spam hotkeys in a certain order to build up enough power to do a finishing blow?

If there are zones and instances - how big are they?   Compare them to an existing game?   Is a zone in SW:ToR as big as say the Barrens in WOW or maybe  a game zone like Field of the Dead in AoC or is a zone as big as a world in SWG?

How is character progression handled?

How is character customization done?  Is there any?   Is it like WoW or is it like CoH with its great character customization system? 

What about space - will space combat be in "Star Wars: The Old Republic"?  It is named Star Wars for a reason.  

Will there be raids? 

Will the best gear only come from raids?  

Is this game going to require us to live in the game to compete against others?

Is leveling a grind?

Is there and endgame?

Will there be housing?

Will there be guild system in place?

Will we even need guilds?

These are just a few of the questions I am sure many people have - and I can come up with a lot more and none would hurt the game if BioWare answered them.    Why these game companies even have NDA's anymore is beyond me.  Just tell us about your game - only what you know is going to be in it and at least tell us how the game is going to play - just basic mechanics.   They are not secret any more.    I mean my god...tell me the true differences between LoTR online and WoW or WoW and EQ2 or EQ2 and EQ or EQ and Asheron's Call - pretty much nothing other than the game world and a few game components - like housing in some and not in others, zones versus no zones and what not - but all in all the all they are basically the same.

Just tell us about the core of the game BioWare...is that really to much to ask for?   Just telling us that 75% of the game can be played solo and that it is completely story driven is not telling us anything really other than it sounds like KoToR with some online game elements - maybe just a central hub chat room where players can gather and do a few group missions on a server and the rest of the game is played on the client.  

Nothing you do is going to be so ground breaking innovative that other game companies are going to jump right on it and start making games to be like yours.   So spill the beans.   Let us see this games basic core game play system. 

Is it necessary to know about it before its released? No. Does it change anything if you know about it before release? No. These threads come off as whiny or demanding every time they are written. You are not owed anything and deserve nothing,  is it so hard to just wait? Go get a life, that will surely take your mind off of things for a while.

Teala's got it right, there are many basic game play questions that could (and should) be answered now.

Lately comapnies seem to prefer the "secret' route because they apparently doubt their abilitiy to design and deliver a game according to plan. (if you believe the apologists)

I think they are taking a page out of the Aventurine book and realize that nothing generates buzz like providing no concrete information at all.

Either that, or this game is so early in development that we're not going to see it until 2012.

Originally posted by Windstryder

They havent been secret about that..the game IS story driven in that EACH players class has a complete storyline that has more choices adn content than all the choices in previous KOTOR games combined. That wasnt a secret...it was in teh dev dairy video. And the storyline advances like any other...by completing quests, you can group with friends and help with each others story lines.

And yes I believe they said something to the effect that your choices will have an impact on your alignment and you can go from good to bad as well has having your npc companions turn on you and attack.

Try going to their website and watch the trailer videos..pretty much everything you asked about they answered on them..its called research. Plus they show some images from in the game that look pretty damn good already

Did you even read the OP's post? He's complaining about the lack of information about the game worlds' design. Zoned/Instanced versus Open World. 'Story' tends to suppose a single-player like adventure which are usually in very linear and zoned environments. 

This game is at least a year off. Probably more. Design elements can change and it sounds like they don't want to announce anything until it's in stone.

Originally posted by Carl132p

Is it necessary to know about it before its released? No. Does it change anything if you know about it before release? No. These threads come off as whiny or demanding every time they are written. You are not owed anything and deserve nothing,  is it so hard to just wait? Go get a life, that will surely take your mind off of things for a while.

We're gamers.  It is our hobby.  So when a company announces a new games we're curious.   It would be nice if that company wasn't so tight lipped about the basic core of the game play mechanics.    I can tell you this from experince in these forums and playing these games since the mid 90's devulging the basic core game play mechanics never hurt any game.  What kills a game is when a game company releases a bug ridden game and an incomplete game - that is what kills a game.

Want a succesful game - launch a fun game that is pretty much polished and playable from the get go and provide great customer support and you are going to have a succesful game.   Wish me to name games that followed that business model and are considered succesful Compared to ones that didn't?

So BioWare really isn't going to hurt themselves by telling us about the core game play at all.   What will hurt them is if they launch a bug filled POS game and then provide little to no customer support.  That will hurt them.

They have done this with every game they have ever made. They release details in a carfully orchestrated time table rather than blurting out a lot of contradictory crap that confuses and ultimately dissapoints everyone who thought they knew what the game was going to be like. Don't read anything into it. Mild antcipation is appropriate at this point. Rabid fanboism and speculation is not. It's too early.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

I want to know if I should be excited or if I should move on and give up on mmorpgs. I keep hearing mixed messages from Bioware from them saying it'll be heavily story driven like a single player game, which will mean it'll be heavily zoned and instanced. Then the next thing they say is having open worlds is very important for an mmorpg and it's like just frigging show me how the game is designed so I can make up my mind. If it's laid out like WoW with the instances built into the world naturally, then I'll be happy but if it's like Age of Conan, Guild Wars or EQ2 then I know to move on and not care.

Other things too explaining how it'll be a signle player like game and every class will have their own story. Well will I be able to play with 4 of my friends in a group and progress through the game will them all? That seems like the Star Wars experience to me and if I can do that then great but if not then let me move on!

Will I be able to switch from Jedi to Sith in the game like Anakin did to Vader?

 

Just tell us already and stop keeping things a secret cause thigns like how the world is designed can't change now!

This happens with nearly every entertainment product out there. Get used to it.

I think this is a good thing , it reduces the whining and after all bioware is making the game not us ,they will ask for our feedback when they need it and now isnt the time imo.

I have faith bioware will do it right and will present a very polished game .

Originally posted by zymurgeist

They have done this with every game they have ever made. They release details in a carfully orchestrated time table rather than blurting out a lot of contradictory crap that confuses and ultimately dissapoints everyone who thought they knew what the game was going to be like. Don't read anything into it. Mild antcipation is appropriate at this point. Rabid fanboism and speculation is not. It's too early.

See that is another thing.   MMORPG players are not like other gamers.   We're a totally different creature.   We're gamers for the most part, but our main type of game is the MMORPG and I guess we're a little more concerned with more than just finding secret zones and knowing all the cheat codes for the latest game that just came out for the Xbox360.   MMORPG's are our main form of entertainment - console games and single player games are just appetizers - what we really prefer is the main course.   ^_^

What's the rush?  The game is probably still close to a year away.  It's not like you have to decide this week if you're going to buy anything.  Of course we all want to know everything NOW, but people are acting like the game is releasing next week and they have to decide if they want to preorder right now.

Originally posted by alakram

The give mixed and confusing info because they want you buy the game, no matter what your tastes are they want you to think you will like the game. Not only bioware, most companies do this. the best is to wait for a free trial or an open beta.

Precisely, its called marketing.

These game companies (and every company, really) employ people whose sole job is to bullshit the public and tease them just enough to convince them to buy a product that they don't need.

Get into beta when it becomes available, and other than that, approach everything that comes out of a game dev/executive's mouth with a healthy sense of skepticism.

It's all about the hype and guessing..  Bioware knows this and wants to keep it that way..   They don't want to scare you off from buying the game when it hits the shelves..  The more hype, the more games they sell..   It's business  :( 

TBH I'd like to place a great big order of:

Until they announce beta it's none of our damn business.

I swear you people need to get a grip.  BioWare is doing their job:  Making a game.

Their job is not to tell you how they're developing it or what features it will have  at release when it's not even in beta yet beyond a general overview of what they'd like to deliver.  They don't have to get into specifics and, to be honest, I'm kind of glad they're being a bit vague.  If they give too many details all you nits will do is pick pick pick at them about what isn't in that they thought they might get in when it releases.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Carl132p

Is it necessary to know about it before its released? No. Does it change anything if you know about it before release? No. These threads come off as whiny or demanding every time they are written. You are not owed anything and deserve nothing,  is it so hard to just wait? Go get a life, that will surely take your mind off of things for a while.

 

We're gamers.  It is our hobby.  So when a company announces a new games we're curious.   It would be nice if that company wasn't so tight lipped about the basic core of the game play mechanics.    I can tell you this from experince in these forums and playing these games since the mid 90's devulging the basic core game play mechanics never hurt any game.  What kills a game is when a game company releases a bug ridden game and an incomplete game - that is what kills a game.

Want a succesful game - launch a fun game that is pretty much polished and playable from the get go and provide great customer support and you are going to have a succesful game.   Wish me to name games that followed that business model and are considered succesful Compared to ones that didn't?

So BioWare really isn't going to hurt themselves by telling us about the core game play at all.   What will hurt them is if they launch a bug filled POS game and then provide little to no customer support.  That will hurt them.

Well said. I always thought that this secrecy does not accomplish anything. And besides, I am quite sure many of the central elements ARE more or less certain to them. Its not like you turn the game all around at this stage of development anymore. For a while it was ok, but by now this habit of prolonging the secret has become childish.

It is as Teala said, gaming is our hobby, so we like to know about stuff and follow it, and giving us the feeling we are being shut out like "not worth their attention to tell us" does not really help by now.

Secrecy does not accomplish anything in and of itself. What does accomplish things is giving people concrete information. Telling people one thing early in development and then later on changing it will cause an uproar of angry people that will begin bashing the game that no amount of PR can stop. It's happened before, and will happen again. It will even happen with this particular game to an extent. Most bad press for MMOs start off before launch though and carry through. Minimizing the bad press before the game is released allows people to formulate their own opinions of the game/company rather than basing them on the company deciding that X didn't work and they need to pull it out of the game (which most people see as the company "lying" to their "loyal fans").

Originally posted by Keyh

Secrecy does not accomplish anything in and of itself. What does accomplish things is giving people concrete information. Telling people one thing early in development and then later on changing it will cause an uproar of angry people that will begin bashing the game that no amount of PR can stop. It's happened before, and will happen again. It will even happen with this particular game to an extent. Most bad press for MMOs start off before launch though and carry through. Minimizing the bad press before the game is released allows people to formulate their own opinions of the game/company rather than basing them on the company deciding that X didn't work and they need to pull it out of the game (which most people see as the company "lying" to their "loyal fans").

I have to agree with you.  If they tell us too much front up then we will expect it and when its not there pre-beta, beta or even upon release they will be "flamed" for what they promised and did not deliver.  I have seen this many times...  If I were a game developer I would carefully monitor the information that I released until I was more certain about what the end product was shaping up to be. So much can change for a game from the eraly stages of development to release.