Darkfall works. I mean, some players like it and they are having fun playing it. But I don't think even the fans will say it' has been completely free of problems. It's had bugs, exploits, graphics are so so, animations are so so, etc.

What if the game was polished, and feature complete? No bugs, no exploites, better graphics and animations, and all things in place like ship battles, etc. (Maybe ship battles are in place now, I don't know).

Knowing what you do now about the game and how the design works, PvP, FPS arrows and spells, using skills to improve them, etc. do you think a polished version would be a big hit?

I do not. I think this basic design is destined to be a niche. It does not appeal to the average gamer. It coudl be a well done niche, and a bigger niche than what we see for Sub numbers in DF, but I think it is not ever going to be a popular design.

In other words, some people say this desing is fantastic, and could have a HUGE following, just needs more polish that DF. Same people are saying MO is going to be awesome. I"m saying, no matter how much polish, the use it to improve it, FFA PvP, FPS targeting of ranged attacks design is going to have very  limited appeal.

I agree, the design/appeal is limited from the start to a certain type of player.  That said, I think Mortal will find a somewhat larger audience than Darkfall simply because there appears to be more to it than killing each other.  More involved crafting, the existence of housing, mapmaking/exploration, pets,  all these things and others (provided they're in the game at release) will go a long way toward drawing in immersion enthusiasts and virtual world fans as opposed to simply the red=dead crowd that plays Darkfall.

It'll never be a mass market game because of the full loot, but it will do well enough provided their feature list is accurate.  My guild, nearly 50 people, all hardcore roleplayers, crafters and progression types, are looking forward to it, and we're not alone.

Originally posted by veritas_X

I agree, the design/appeal is limited from the start to a certain type of player.  That said, I think Mortal will find a somewhat larger audience than Darkfall simply because there appears to be more to it than killing each other.  More involved crafting, the existence of housing, mapmaking/exploration, pets,  all these things and others (provided they're in the game at release) will go a long way toward drawing in immersion enthusiasts and virtual world fans as opposed to simply the red=dead crowd that plays Darkfall.

It'll never be a mass market game because of the full loot, but it will do well enough provided their feature list is accurate.  My guild, nearly 50 people, all hardcore roleplayers, crafters and progression types, are looking forward to it, and we're not alone.

I agree, the more features you include, and the better you do them, the bigger and broader audience you can attract. Add better Crafting and PvE and you can attract a bigger player base than DF.

However, you can't stray to far into this arena, or you end up being like WoW, which puts off the niche player, and you also don't want to compete with WoW because that's very hard to do.

The best that could happen to the game imo is that another dev team would take over, on the other hand ... who on earth could fix their code?

Time will tell, maybe it's a decent game in one or two years, if it is still up and running!

Originally posted by pwnzorellOr

The best that could happen to the game imo is that another dev team would take over, on the other hand ... who on earth could fix their code?

 

Time will tell, maybe it's a decent game in one or two years, if it is still up and running!

With very few exceptions, history shows us that Players don't go back. They look forwards to the next new thing.

You release a game that isn't up to par, then later you fix it. Players, for wahtever reason, will go on to the next buggy game and try it because it's new, rather than go back to the now fixed but already released game.

On the topic of graphics I came from EQ2 which I found graphically to be a slightly better than WoW. In my mind DF has graphics that is light years ahead of EQ2.

But that is me, my eyes see a very intresting world with colors and landscape that look at least a little bit realistic.

I think EQ2 has the best textures of all MMOs on the market. Darkfall doesn't come close to EQ2 in the graphics department. Only AoC does; and well beats EQ2 for the most part. That said, Darkfall looks fine. If you put the game on high settings it looks pretty good except for certain things like the fire effect (which is pretty awful). Most people complaining about the graphics probably haven't played; if you are basing it off fraps you saw on youtube or something, just keep in mind that most people run the game at the lowest possible settings.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by veritas_X

I agree, the design/appeal is limited from the start to a certain type of player.  That said, I think Mortal will find a somewhat larger audience than Darkfall simply because there appears to be more to it than killing each other.  More involved crafting, the existence of housing, mapmaking/exploration, pets,  all these things and others (provided they're in the game at release) will go a long way toward drawing in immersion enthusiasts and virtual world fans as opposed to simply the red=dead crowd that plays Darkfall.

It'll never be a mass market game because of the full loot, but it will do well enough provided their feature list is accurate.  My guild, nearly 50 people, all hardcore roleplayers, crafters and progression types, are looking forward to it, and we're not alone.

 

I agree, the more features you include, and the better you do them, the bigger and broader audience you can attract. Add better Crafting and PvE and you can attract a bigger player base than DF.

However, you can't stray to far into this arena, or you end up being like WoW, which puts off the niche player, and you also don't want to compete with WoW because that's very hard to do.

Having lots of features doesn't make something like wow. Im not gettin all up in arms here but i think if you re read that you would probably say something different there. There are ways to make PvE good without the quest hub system we just know that system works well.

Originally posted by Wycliffe

I think EQ2 has the best textures of all MMOs on the market. Darkfall doesn't come close to EQ2 in the graphics department. Only AoC does; and well beats EQ2 for the most part. That said, Darkfall looks fine. If you put the game on high settings it looks pretty good except for certain things like the fire effect (which is pretty awful). Most people complaining about the graphics probably haven't played; if you are basing it off fraps you saw on youtube or something, just keep in mind that most people run the game at the lowest possible settings.

see this just blows my mind. To me, EQ2 looks like an upgraded cartoon. Everything in the world is base colors, simple and unintresting.

Darkfall on the otherhand, has more realistic terrian, trees are better, sunsets and sunrises are better, water is better, night is better, shadows are better (does EQ2 even have shadows?).

I find the whole EQ2 to Darkfall graphic comparision hysterical. its like comparing a cartoon to real life. (cartoon being EQ2)

I think a well made game with DF's core mechanics of FFA PVP with full loot can draw a decent size crowd, say maybe 200-300K even, but would you call it a success?

I would, but most people think that if a game doesn't maintain 500K subs its a total failure.

Will a game like DF or MO ever have mass appeal? Probably not, most people play games for fun and relaxation and I doubt those feeling ever come to a player in DF.

By virtue of the fact so many EvE players (a game that is reasonably successful imo) can see similarities in what DF was supposed to deliver, I think it could be a success. Not a success on the scale of millions of subscribers, but a success in the form of a cash-positive game. The real problem, as you said, is that people don't often go back once they have gotten a sour taste in their mouths. So, in that sense, it seems like DF has cut off some of the player base they were aimed at. For this reason, the next new thing, in this case MO or maybe Earthrise, stands a chance of being a bigger success so long as they deliver on their feature lists and have minimal hiccups on launch. Then again, AV has been full of surprises thus far. Maybe an NA server launch could be the 'reset' they need.

The combat and skill system would still suck.

If a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's ass hopping.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Wycliffe

I think EQ2 has the best textures of all MMOs on the market. Darkfall doesn't come close to EQ2 in the graphics department. Only AoC does; and well beats EQ2 for the most part. That said, Darkfall looks fine. If you put the game on high settings it looks pretty good except for certain things like the fire effect (which is pretty awful). Most people complaining about the graphics probably haven't played; if you are basing it off fraps you saw on youtube or something, just keep in mind that most people run the game at the lowest possible settings.

 

see this just blows my mind. To me, EQ2 looks like an upgraded cartoon. Everything in the world is base colors, simple and unintresting.

Darkfall on the otherhand, has more realistic terrian, trees are better, sunsets and sunrises are better, water is better, night is better, shadows are better (does EQ2 even have shadows?).

I find the whole EQ2 to Darkfall graphic comparision hysterical. its like comparing a cartoon to real life. (cartoon being EQ2)

I think the Darkfall style is just as cartoony as EQ2 if not more so. I swear the character models look cell-shaded on high quality settings. Personally I like cell-shaded, I loved Zelda: The Wind Waker's style.

I guess you haven't had a machine powerful enough to really experience all EQ2 has to offer visually. Does EQ2 even have shadows?? Yes quite a lot actually. It has multiple shadows when various lightsources hit an object, just like in RL. Water in EQ2 is amazing, even the physics for it since when you swim the water surface responds and creates waves behind your character. While a lot of the zones in EQ2 are unimpressive, the massive outdoor ones are simply amazing.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Darkfall works. I mean, some players like it and they are having fun playing it. But I don't think even the fans will say it' has been completely free of problems. It's had bugs, exploits, graphics are so so, animations are so so, etc.

What if the game was polished, and feature complete? No bugs, no exploites, better graphics and animations, and all things in place like ship battles, etc. (Maybe ship battles are in place now, I don't know).

Knowing what you do now about the game and how the design works, PvP, FPS arrows and spells, using skills to improve them, etc. do you think a polished version would be a big hit?

I do not. I think this basic design is destined to be a niche. It does not appeal to the average gamer. It coudl be a well done niche, and a bigger niche than what we see for Sub numbers in DF, but I think it is not ever going to be a popular design.

In other words, some people say this desing is fantastic, and could have a HUGE following, just needs more polish that DF. Same people are saying MO is going to be awesome. I"m saying, no matter how much polish, the use it to improve it, FFA PvP, FPS targeting of ranged attacks design is going to have very  limited appeal.

I agree totally with you in that it is still just a niche game, the bottom line is the vast majority of mmo players are not full on pvp players which DF has made it painfully obvious they don't care about those players (which is a foolish stance to take for a small company that needs all the subs they could possibly get) but I also have to add you may not have so many in the mmo community spewing venom about the product.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by veritas_X

I agree, the design/appeal is limited from the start to a certain type of player.  That said, I think Mortal will find a somewhat larger audience than Darkfall simply because there appears to be more to it than killing each other.  More involved crafting, the existence of housing, mapmaking/exploration, pets,  all these things and others (provided they're in the game at release) will go a long way toward drawing in immersion enthusiasts and virtual world fans as opposed to simply the red=dead crowd that plays Darkfall.

It'll never be a mass market game because of the full loot, but it will do well enough provided their feature list is accurate.  My guild, nearly 50 people, all hardcore roleplayers, crafters and progression types, are looking forward to it, and we're not alone.

 

I agree, the more features you include, and the better you do them, the bigger and broader audience you can attract. Add better Crafting and PvE and you can attract a bigger player base than DF.

However, you can't stray to far into this arena, or you end up being like WoW, which puts off the niche player, and you also don't want to compete with WoW because that's very hard to do.

Aaaah what's so hard about competing with WOW?  I would take competing with wow to mean you come out with a highly popular game with an insane amount of subs in the millions and who intheir right minds would think that is a bad thing?
 

  I hate to tell the carebear proclaimers that there is absolutely nothing wrong with making a game that is easily accessible to the most players atleast your stockholders wouldn't think so.  To me the only thing that would make a game truly elite is an insanely high sub price so DF and other niche games are not special just lack the appeal to actually draw in big numbers and if a game like DF did actually include a decent pve element it would only make the game better for everyone including the pvpers.

To be honest I don't like DFO...

But those that say the graphics need to be better...

Get a new PC... I think the graphics are really well done for the type of game it is...

So stope flaming the game about the graphics and flame for the reason it is truly a bad game.

Originally posted by momodig

To be honest I don't like DFO...

 

But those that say the graphics need to be better...

 

Get a new PC... I think the graphics are really well done for the type of game it is...

 

So stope flaming the game about the graphics and flame for the reason it is truly a bad game.

This

Besides its online with twitch gameplay. People who play an FPS game with 12 players in a room will even put the video settings on crazy settings because they cause more about fragging the other guys than taking in eyecandy. My old roommate used to play games with the color drained, much less turning off shadows and putting texture quality at the lowest possible setting.

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Darkfall works. I mean, some players like it and they are having fun playing it. But I don't think even the fans will say it' has been completely free of problems. It's had bugs, exploits, graphics are so so, animations are so so, etc.

What if the game was polished, and feature complete? No bugs, no exploites, better graphics and animations, and all things in place like ship battles, etc. (Maybe ship battles are in place now, I don't know).

Knowing what you do now about the game and how the design works, PvP, FPS arrows and spells, using skills to improve them, etc. do you think a polished version would be a big hit?

I do not. I think this basic design is destined to be a niche. It does not appeal to the average gamer. It coudl be a well done niche, and a bigger niche than what we see for Sub numbers in DF, but I think it is not ever going to be a popular design.

In other words, some people say this desing is fantastic, and could have a HUGE following, just needs more polish that DF. Same people are saying MO is going to be awesome. I"m saying, no matter how much polish, the use it to improve it, FFA PvP, FPS targeting of ranged attacks design is going to have very  limited appeal.

 

I agree totally with you in that it is still just a niche game, the bottom line is the vast majority of mmo players are not full on pvp players which DF has made it painfully obvious they don't care about those players (which is a foolish stance to take for a small company that needs all the subs they could possibly get) but I also have to add you may not have so many in the mmo community spewing venom about the product.

It wouldn't matter, because the game was designed wrong, without any insight.

A 100% PvP game wouldn't even have mobs in it...  Aventurine put just enough mobs to confuse themselves and other people into believing they were making a MMORPG,  when it is not. Darkfall just another Online FPS game, taking place within high-fantasy setting.

Tasos is so ignorant, he doesn't even know the history of MMORPGs and why past failures, failed!  Aventurine spent too much resources on making people believe they were designing a robust and in-depth game, when they were not.

It's just a really dumbed down FPS shooter, set in a global conquest arena. Clan vs Clan vs Clan.

How many naval battles have we seen like the trailer, since this games release..?  LOL  it was all an illusion because Aventurine was fixated on making a movie, instead of a game.

Simple solution and probably a good cash grab for DFO... setup another server make it PVE or even Realm Vs Realm... heck it would make a great Realm Vs Realm game...

According to Tasos himself the game was feature ready in 2005 was it? When I played it I felt it had a lot of potential, so might check it out again in a year or so :)

No offence, but those "what ifs" arguments are ludicrous. If my grandma had wings and an engine she'd be an airplane.

Maybe if Tasos gets fired followed by a huge game polish with ALL  the once promised game features id give it a try.Until then its good old  "yikes -poo" wont touch

Originally posted by Wycliffe

 

I think the Darkfall style is just as cartoony as EQ2 if not more so. I swear the character models look cell-shaded on high quality settings. Personally I like cell-shaded, I loved Zelda: The Wind Waker's style.

I guess you haven't had a machine powerful enough to really experience all EQ2 has to offer visually. Does EQ2 even have shadows?? Yes quite a lot actually. It has multiple shadows when various lightsources hit an object, just like in RL. Water in EQ2 is amazing, even the physics for it since when you swim the water surface responds and creates waves behind your character. While a lot of the zones in EQ2 are unimpressive, the massive outdoor ones are simply amazing.

This is fun!

i7 core 720, 6gb ram, 280gtx, 30" monitor played on both EQ2 and DF

1. personally i dont care about character models

2. when I say cartoons (cant believe i have to be this specific) its the color choices. Its EQ2 color choices that no not exist in the natural world except in flowers.

3. The DF world is MUCH better and MUCH more realistic that EQ2 world and yes, EQ2 world looks like a cartoon.

I like the graphics in Darkfall.  They are nice. and do the job well.  I also like the graphics in AC.. they serve their purpose.

I never found the game to be .. lacking becaues of the things it promised.  It was lacking due to the repeditive game play.  It's amateurish at best.  A game is supposed to be fun, not a grind to experience the game.  The game rewarded cheaters.. and continues to by not fixing things that were exploited without the help of 3rd party programs.  The lack of actual content makes the game feel very grindy.  I found myself logging on, killing skeltons for 15 minutes to level up my skills by .01 point (that is assuming I didn't die and lose my store bought weapon), taking the loot and either selling it or putting it in the bank, then repeating.  The only thing I had to look forward to was eventually being able to compete with the guys who macro'd all night with their newb weapons to level up their skills, exploited game mechanics to gain large stores of cash, weapons, and armor, and.. in some cases.. cheating still.

It's not the concept behind Darkfall that takes away from the game, it's the development crew that does it.