Originally posted by mcharj11 

@ Sonofseth - Blizzard do not make better games,they haven't made a triple A shooter yet. They have good hack'n'slash games with Diablo and they have a good MMO with WoW but Blizzard's bread and butter has always been RTS development. BioWare have made great shooters with Shattered Steel and MDK2, i'd also count Mass Effect here as it is both a shooter and an RPG. BioWare's bread and butter development though is with story driven RPG's. So both developers make good games but don't compete, they will compete heavily for the first time when ToR launches.

They make better games in terms of gameplay, in a way that playing the game is fun in itself even if you don't know the story. You can play Starcraft or Warcraft 3 only multiplayer skiping all the story and have fun, you can play Diablos only multiplayer and just slay monsters without bothering with lore because it's a rewarding expirience.

You canot do that with Bioware games, Bioware games have clunky cumbersome controls which you have to fight to get to the good stuff, the story. Mass Effect is an amazing RPG with a great story but it's crap as an FPS. Baldurs Gates and Nevewinter Nights are amazing RPGs in terms of character building, story progression and variety but have boring combat you are willing to forgive beause the good stuff is soo good it doesen't matter.

It's the same old argument with Blizzard, they make games that have no weakest link, and Bioware makes games that have one amazing link and rest is there just to make a complete chain.

You will see the same thing with TOR, it's story, choices and character development will be leagues above what you get in WoW but in terms of fluidity and responsivness of avatar control, WoW will be ahead.

That is what I mean by gameplay, playing the game in the purest meaning of the word, just playing the game, not intelectualy deconstructing the merrits untill you find stuff you like and can justify you liking it, but just;

-sitting down in front of the computer

-double clicking the launch game shortcut

-GO!

It has nothing to do with genres or backround of the player, that's why Blizzard games are played by everyone and Bioware games aren't.

Originally posted by mcharj11

Originally posted by lordvance

Bioware creates far more original stories, Blizzard is significantly ahead of the game in terms of gameplay.

Three major things to remember...

1) People want different things out of games, neither company will "win" and if Bioware can even get 1/4th of the subscriber base World of Warcraft has than their game is a resounding success the likes of which hasn't been seen since WoW's release. Their goal isn't to "beat" Blizzard, it's to come anywhere close to the success that Blizzard had with WoW.

2) Blizzard also has a pristine track record, both companies have been independently successful and existed alongside one another fine - this will not change.

3) Blizzard is working on an new MMORPG. Blizzard has a tremendous amount of funding available for the development of this new game, and unlike literally anyone else working on an MMORPG right now has the power, and funding to take as much time as they need to polish the ever-loving-shit out of it before it releases. They aren't retarded, they will not be releasing "WoW 2.0" - the new game will learn from this upcoming generation of releases (including TOR) and will refine/expand as needed.

 

Now, I don't want this to sound like I'm rooting for Blizzard to destroy Bioware - I'm rooting for neither. The MMORPG landscape doesn't need someone to "destroy" Blizzard, that isn't even a viable goal at the moment. The MMO scape just needs to see new, innovative titles being released as finished products and being independently successful. We've gone entirely too long with huge, expensive games being released and utterly failing. Too many people trying to release WoW 2.0... Bill Roper is right, Blizzard set out with WoW to make the best Everquest and they succeeded... there isn't room at the moment to make a better Everquest, but there is a tremendous amount of room to make a better MMORPG.

 

Explain how Blizzard are "significantly" ahead in terms of gameplay?

It seems to me that Blizzard have never developed a shooter so they have nothing that competes with Shattered Steel, MDK2, or Mass Effect in terms of gameplay. Diablo is a hack'n'slash game and not a real RPG to me so it doesn't really compete with BioWare RPG's like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Night's, KoTOR, Jade Empire, or Mass Effect and certainly doesn't beat them for gameplay in my opinion.

Blizzard are only better in terms of RTS, they are the world leaders in terms of RTS but that doesn't make them significantly better at gameplay than BioWare.

WoW can't be counted as them being ahead in gameplay until ToR comes out or we get to see some live action from the game at least, like the E3 demo we missed.

The essence of that statement comes from Blizzards design philosophy. They rarely take large gambles with their products; instead they refine and combine previous ideas and polish the gameplay. Starcraft's story is pretty generic, the characters (with the exception of maybe Kerrigan) are terrible cliches. The game isn't renound and wildly successful becauses of it's awesome story. It's wildly successful because they managed to make a strategy game with 3 different factions that all play very different but all remain very balanced. Warcraft-Warcraft III are the same deal, fairly generic storylines/settings but incredibly refined/polished gameplay.

World of Warcraft is where I'll likely get the largest disagreement here on MMORPG.com - home of the WoW hater. I played the game for a long time, I don't play anymore because I don't like how much time it has to consume these days to be entertaining for me. However, there is no denying that they have created a wildly successful product with WoW. They did this by, again, focusing entirely on what current genre-fans enjoyed about previous games, what they did not enjoy, and polish the hell out of previously existing gameplay. Sure, it's PvP isn't amazing (downright bad these days I'd say) - but they are the absolute kings of PvE content *of the current MMO varient.*

World of Warcraft is ahead of the *current competition* in terms of gameplay for the games primary focus, pve dungeons. Will TOR beat it out? I would surely hope so, the game is years newer than WoW. And if it does provide better gameplay then I hope people who play based on gameplay (and not on setting, in which case fantasy gamers will stay with WoW/War/LoTRO) realize this and move to TOR. WoW's time has come, and I really hope that it's coming to an end. Not because I think Blizzard is evil; I think they are a great company, I just think the MMORPG genre is ripe for change. I expect TOR and several other in-development games to do just that, but I also expect Blizzards in-development MMORPG to be shockingly refined. They have a proven track record as an MMORPG developer now, and they have resources far beyond that of any competitor.

this is a really stupid thread to compare the two companies. the only real thing they have in common is both have 1 mmo.

You can also play Sacred (1/2) without knowing the story. Thats because its a HacknSlay, they are supposed to be about HacknSlay ;) Its not because of the uberness of blizz lol

Originally posted by Kilmar

You can also play Sacred (1/2) without knowing the story. Thats because its a HacknSlay, they are supposed to be about HacknSlay ;) Its not because of the uberness of blizz lol

Diablo and Sacred are of two diferent levels of polish. Sacred  is cumbersome and buggy, Diablo is the oposite.

Originally posted by Horkathane

I am rooting for Bioware, this is their time to shine! They have a perfect record of games and are a solid development team and will PWN Blizzard! Thats the deal, they are stepping up to the plate. Cmon lets look at the record

Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect and the King of all time RPG Baulders Gate Its over for Blizzard. Blizzard got lucky with Wow, it was their first rpg. Diablo was an Action rpg not the same. The Masters have come and its Bioware! Wow is going to get pummled!

This is another useless post bro,  I agree with your taste in games but they are in no way going to compete for the same dollars WOW is a fantasy game TOR is a sci fi game and I hate to have to say people are not in droves going to cancel wow subs and immediately activate TOR some will sub to both I hope but this game will have no bearing on wow and I would hate for it to because I played wow and truth be told I wouldn't want to play with all those gold farmers children and loot ninjas so let's just hope that you are wrong.

Originally posted by Sievahn

Originally posted by Horkathane

Bioware is the best RPG game company hands down...

 

Hello, Horkathane, I would like to introduce you to my friend Bethesda Softworks...

Bethesda is cool but for RPGs I'll take Bioware anyday if anything you should have made a different post asking what company people prefered because right now you are in the realms of alot of players who are going to chose Bioware sorry Bioware get's my money everyday

Originally posted by SonofSeth

Originally posted by Kilmar

You can also play Sacred (1/2) without knowing the story. Thats because its a HacknSlay, they are supposed to be about HacknSlay ;) Its not because of the uberness of blizz lol

 

Diablo and Sacred are of two diferent levels of polish. Sacred  is cumbersome and buggy, Diablo is the oposite.

You say that, I call Diablo 3 colorful, nothing else *g*

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Moodah

My dad is bigger than your dad.

My dad is a fireman he beats your dad

My dad is a policeman and he has a gun

... etc.

 

Basicaly - 5 year old behaviour :P

 

I will never understand why one has to "beat" the other one. They are two products, just go and put your money on the one you feel deserves it more compared to what you get out from it, and let the other people put their money where they wanto to and move on.

How dare you have a rational thought on this site. :)

LMFAO!  Too true!

To each their own.

I'm sorry to say this but Horkathane really seems to piss me off. I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything but, you seem to be a very narrow minded/pretentious douche and reading your posts agitates me.

Weird I thought that they were trying to make a good game.