Originally posted by natuxatu

exactly, i hope you know how silly you sound saying ffxiii is dumbed down graphically. please show me pictures? you're talking out of your ass, it's sad.

1) just because a ps3 could push the power more, doesn't mean they do for every game.

2) if it does look different it's a matter of opinion. I can promise you there will be people who prefer the look of 360 though they too are just as much full of it as you are.

you know, i cant find a good quality Replay of the video what they played at E3 but it is different, all i found on YT was blury crap .

Originally posted by whatamidoing

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by whatamidoing

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by jakojako

i don't see how someone would rather play an mmo on a console over a pc...

Only reason I can see someone playing mmo's on a console over a pc is if your pc can't handle it or if you don't have a pc... but 95% of the time that's not the case

 

not that i have a problem with that or anything, it's just that it seems that a console mmo community would be extremely small and the game would be dumbed down a lot

 

Dumbed down? naw just a differnt UI needs to be used. I personal loved the ffxi UI. Again FFXI console community was by no means small.

I have a core I-7 OC'ed to 4.0 ghz with a GTX 295 blah blah blah. You know what, I am leaning heavily to play ffxiv via ps3. I can tell you 2 major benifits 52' flat screen 1080p hdtv, and a comphy recliner.  I can also guarntee I will have it on PC as well though. But ps3 will probably be the primary device I use to play, unless PC just has way to many perks, which I dont forsee.

That's my reason for wanting it on 360. I'm sure my PC will handle it fine, but why not have the comfort to go with it. And since I have the 360 already, I see no need to buy a PS3 if I don't have to. The Final Fantasy series would have been the only reason I would have bought a PS3. Thankfully, Square removed that need in both singleplayer and online.
 

And for Jakojako, are you trying to say FFXI is "dumbed down" because it's on Xbox/Xbox360? Because I'd sure hate to see how much "harder" it would have been if that's the case.

Actually what is meant by "dumbed down" is the graphical upgradability of FFXI due to it being on the PS2, since it was an older and less powerful console (which obviously didn't upgrade overtime like a pc does). People are worrying about this on FFXIV with the xbox 360 because of the three "platforms: (ps3, xbox360 and pc) the xbox360 is the least powerful and therefore would potentially be the one to hold back any future upgrades (the ps3 will do this too but it's a more powerful system than the 360 so the damage wouldn't be as bad).
 

 

The PS2 didn't hold the graphics for FFXI back. Square held the graphics back to maintain the minimum bandwidth for dial up users. FFXI client and server are locked at 56k bandwidth, even for those with broadband, so that everyone gets the same connection quality.

Oh? I've always heard it was because of the PS2 but that kinda makes sense too. Well I'll take your word for it, not really looking for a debate tonight, thanks for the info!
 

Yes, it is a common mistake that the PS2 held the graphics back. A rumor started, i'm sure, by PC and Xbox fanbois.
 

It was Square themselves that stated the reason for the low graphics was bandwidth and that the bandwidth was locked at 56k.

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by whatamidoing

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by whatamidoing

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by jakojako

i don't see how someone would rather play an mmo on a console over a pc...

Only reason I can see someone playing mmo's on a console over a pc is if your pc can't handle it or if you don't have a pc... but 95% of the time that's not the case

 

not that i have a problem with that or anything, it's just that it seems that a console mmo community would be extremely small and the game would be dumbed down a lot

 

Dumbed down? naw just a differnt UI needs to be used. I personal loved the ffxi UI. Again FFXI console community was by no means small.

I have a core I-7 OC'ed to 4.0 ghz with a GTX 295 blah blah blah. You know what, I am leaning heavily to play ffxiv via ps3. I can tell you 2 major benifits 52' flat screen 1080p hdtv, and a comphy recliner.  I can also guarntee I will have it on PC as well though. But ps3 will probably be the primary device I use to play, unless PC just has way to many perks, which I dont forsee.

That's my reason for wanting it on 360. I'm sure my PC will handle it fine, but why not have the comfort to go with it. And since I have the 360 already, I see no need to buy a PS3 if I don't have to. The Final Fantasy series would have been the only reason I would have bought a PS3. Thankfully, Square removed that need in both singleplayer and online.
 

And for Jakojako, are you trying to say FFXI is "dumbed down" because it's on Xbox/Xbox360? Because I'd sure hate to see how much "harder" it would have been if that's the case.

Actually what is meant by "dumbed down" is the graphical upgradability of FFXI due to it being on the PS2, since it was an older and less powerful console (which obviously didn't upgrade overtime like a pc does). People are worrying about this on FFXIV with the xbox 360 because of the three "platforms: (ps3, xbox360 and pc) the xbox360 is the least powerful and therefore would potentially be the one to hold back any future upgrades (the ps3 will do this too but it's a more powerful system than the 360 so the damage wouldn't be as bad).
 

 

The PS2 didn't hold the graphics for FFXI back. Square held the graphics back to maintain the minimum bandwidth for dial up users. FFXI client and server are locked at 56k bandwidth, even for those with broadband, so that everyone gets the same connection quality.

Oh? I've always heard it was because of the PS2 but that kinda makes sense too. Well I'll take your word for it, not really looking for a debate tonight, thanks for the info!
 

Yes, it is a common mistake that the PS2 held the graphics back. A rumor started, i'm sure, by PC and Xbox fanbois.
 

It was Square themselves that stated the reason for the low graphics was bandwidth and that the bandwidth was locked at 56k.

yeah, they can easily run two different clients if they wanted to. like EvE

Originally posted by natuxatu

exactly, i hope you know how silly you sound saying ffxiii is dumbed down graphically. please show me pictures? you're talking out of your ass, it's sad.

1) just because a ps3 could push the power more, doesn't mean they do for every game.

2) if it does look different it's a matter of opinion. I can promise you there will be people who prefer the look of 360 though they too are just as much full of it as you are.

I am 110% positive that if ffxiii was developed with PS3 exclusive in mind that the quality would be better than it is now. SE just made a business decsion to not push it so far that the 360 couldnt handle it.

As for the quality I have seen I can say both versions look pretty darn close but thats expected when developing 1 game for 2 consoles.

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by natuxatu

exactly, i hope you know how silly you sound saying ffxiii is dumbed down graphically. please show me pictures? you're talking out of your ass, it's sad.

1) just because a ps3 could push the power more, doesn't mean they do for every game.

2) if it does look different it's a matter of opinion. I can promise you there will be people who prefer the look of 360 though they too are just as much full of it as you are.

 

I am 110% positive that if ffxiii was developed with PS3 exclusive in mind that the quality would be better than it is now. SE just made a business decsion to not push it so far that the 360 couldnt handle it.

As for the quality I have seen I can say both versions look pretty darn close but thats expected when developing 1 game for 2 consoles.

I didnt say there was a huge difference, but i saw it....i swear O_O. but not all games look identical multi platform, i mean Fallout looks like garbage on the ps3

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Originally posted by toddze 
52' flat screen 1080p hdtv, and a comphy recliner.  

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If your PC isn't hooked up to a monitor+chair you find comfy, you're "doing it wrong", as the saying goes.

Not to mention the fact that you could probably hook your computer up to that very same 52' TV, with that very same recliner.

For me it's never been a comfort issue, and has been every bit about superior input devices. Mouse+Keyboard just lets you do more. I play a moderate amount of console games, but PC is still very much my preferred platform.

Originally posted by Axehilt

 

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Originally posted by toddze 
52' flat screen 1080p hdtv, and a comphy recliner.  

---

 

If your PC isn't hooked up to a monitor+chair you find comfy, you're "doing it wrong", as the saying goes.

Not to mention the fact that you could probably hook your computer up to that very same 52' TV, with that very same recliner.

For me it's never been a comfort issue, and has been every bit about superior input devices. Mouse+Keyboard just lets you do more. I play a moderate amount of console games, but PC is still very much my preferred platform.

You're right. Good thing you can use mouse and keyboard with a 360.

http://www.teamxtender.com/catalog/catalog.php?productID=219

They also 'considered' putting FFXI on PS3 but it never happened.

360 is an older system with an older graphics card. I doubt they'll port it, because it would be what the ps2 is for FFXI, a ball and chain for more graphic updates.

Originally posted by KingKaio

They also 'considered' putting FFXI on PS3 but it never happened.

360 is an older system with an older graphics card. I doubt they'll port it, because it would be what the ps2 is for FFXI, a ball and chain for more graphic updates.

*sigh* I love people who don't read the thread.

Try post #21 to start.

Square seems to sleep with everyone and their mom lately.

*incoming IPhone FF*

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Axehilt

 

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Originally posted by toddze 
52' flat screen 1080p hdtv, and a comphy recliner.  

---

 

If your PC isn't hooked up to a monitor+chair you find comfy, you're "doing it wrong", as the saying goes.

Not to mention the fact that you could probably hook your computer up to that very same 52' TV, with that very same recliner.

For me it's never been a comfort issue, and has been every bit about superior input devices. Mouse+Keyboard just lets you do more. I play a moderate amount of console games, but PC is still very much my preferred platform.

 

You're right. Good thing you can use mouse and keyboard with a 360.

http://www.teamxtender.com/catalog/catalog.php?productID=219

For me, the console vs PC debate is all about the input device. Is it designed for a controller or a mouse and keyboard? You have to dumb down a game if it's designed for a controller, because as mentioned above you can do more withe a mouse and keyboard.

Also, if you do FPS game controllers designes use aimbots because the controller isn't that accurrate, mouse and keyboard designs typically use no aimbots because the mouse is so accurate. Aimbots help you aim at the target. Maybe a little, maybe a lot, depending on the game. Developers think they can taylor the aimbot to exactly mimic the accuracy of a mouse and keyboard, but I don't think that's possible. Either you're getting help from an aimbot, or you're not.

Once you plug in a mouse and keyboard to a 360, great, now you've basically got a computer you can't upgrade with a better  CPU, graphics card, or more RAM.

But the real issue is what input device was the game designed for? If it was designed for a mouse and keyboard, makes no difference what machine you play it on.

well, if they are already putting it on the ps3...its already going to be "dumbed down" as people say. so....who cares if it is on 360 or not. i will be playing it on pc, as i prefer it that way. i also have a 360 and could do that but i just prefer the pc.

Originally posted by Waterlily

Square seems to sleep with everyone and their mom lately.

*incoming IPhone FF*

FF on the ipone is fun, its a tower defence game.

 Dont be silly, this is a MMO so the more exposure the better. 

I doubt they will bring this out on the XBox360.  Maybe the next generation of XBox, but not this one.  The hardware is just too old to restrain yourself to.  On the other hand you cannot deny the processing power in a PS3, it is only rivaled by rescent PC hardware.

Originally posted by eyeswideopen 

You're right. Good thing you can use mouse and keyboard with a 360.

http://www.teamxtender.com/catalog/catalog.php?productID=219

Peripherals like that don't really count until they're first-party or at least quite commonplace.

Basically I don't want to win because of a hardware advantage, but I also don't want to use inferior hardware.

A professional bicyclist asked to participate in a Training Wheels Only bike race wouldn't even bother.  The same bicyclist would also get no satisfaction from beating a bunch of Training Wheels bikers with his normal bike.  What that bicyclist wants is even competition on real bikes.

I'm basically the same way; if you let me play TF2 PC against TF2 Console players, I think that'd be amusing for 10 minutes tops due to the drastically unfair input discrepancy.  The same is true of the 3rd party device you linked.

As soon as better input devices are 1st party (or as commonplace like Rock Band's peripherals) I'll be all over it.  Personally I thought the Wiimote had a ton of potential (though I was simultaneously sad it was Nintendo releasing it, since I knew they'd be selling to a completely different demographic than my own.)  As a FPS controller, the Wiimote could've been pretty close to a mouse (not sure if it had the accuracy needed though.)

hope they release ffxiv por 360, i was thinking in buying a 360 and this really stops me from doing :/

I don't understand these claims of the Xbox360 holding back the PS3.

The overall capabilities of both consoles are fairly similar. They've got their individual advantages and disadvantages, but in the end one isn't clearly superior to the other.

Edit: The PS3's cell is not that great. Stating that its processing power is unrivaled by all except most recent pc processors is basically an admission of ignorance. The cell processor is a specialized unit, which makes direct comparisons difficult enough in the first place. In any case, it's not some magical cheap super-processor. Its design is often (rightfully) described as being ahead of its time, but the thing itself is fairly mediocre if it isn't specially developed for (which means getting the PS3 to perform as it should is a massive extra complication in a multi-platform development environment) and when it is used to its potential it's still not particularly stunning aside from some specific applications (of which 'video games' is not one).

Originally posted by SgtFrog 

who cares about hard drive? Hard Drive does not affect graphics >.>

the PS3 has higher hardware specs than the 360

if you look at the 360 version of XIII and The PS3 you can see that the graphics have been dumed down .

Yet if you compare multiplatform releases, the 360 version pulls better FPS then PS3 version every time.

well, for me 360 is cheaper and works very similar to ps3

i dont care about blue-ray, and games catalog fits me much better than ps3 and online plataform is better in 360 atm

i wish it is released for ps3,360 and pc, more plataforms, more ppl playing which is cool for the game and community ;)

Originally posted by Drughi

well, for me 360 is cheaper and works very similar to ps3

i dont care about blue-ray, and games catalog fits me much better than ps3 and online plataform is better in 360 atm

i wish it is released for ps3,360 and pc, more plataforms, more ppl playing which is cool for the game and community ;)

yeah thats true more platform, then more people will play this final fantasy.. btw im an avid fun of all ff versions since when i was a grade school. And i know Square Enix is always providing a good game like with other game publisher ^^

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by jakojako

i don't see how someone would rather play an mmo on a console over a pc...

Only reason I can see someone playing mmo's on a console over a pc is if your pc can't handle it or if you don't have a pc... but 95% of the time that's not the case

 

not that i have a problem with that or anything, it's just that it seems that a console mmo community would be extremely small and the game would be dumbed down a lot

 

Dumbed down? naw just a differnt UI needs to be used. I personal loved the ffxi UI. Again FFXI console community was by no means small.

I have a core I-7 OC'ed to 4.0 ghz with a GTX 295 blah blah blah. You know what, I am leaning heavily to play ffxiv via ps3. I can tell you 2 major benifits 52' flat screen 1080p hdtv, and a comphy recliner.  I can also guarntee I will have it on PC as well though. But ps3 will probably be the primary device I use to play, unless PC just has way to many perks, which I dont forsee.

That's my reason for wanting it on 360. I'm sure my PC will handle it fine, but why not have the comfort to go with it. And since I have the 360 already, I see no need to buy a PS3 if I don't have to. The Final Fantasy series would have been the only reason I would have bought a PS3. Thankfully, Square removed that need in both singleplayer and online.
 

And for Jakojako, are you trying to say FFXI is "dumbed down" because it's on Xbox/Xbox360? Because I'd sure hate to see how much "harder" it would have been if that's the case.

by "dumbed down", i meant that the controls, attacks, and everything your character does is "dumbed down" from the amount of buttons on a keyboard to the amount of buttons on a controller

and also the graphic potential is dumbed down on consoles as well. This game will be made for a modern PC, and have options to increase the graphical quality and resolution further than a console could offer. Now, if this game were being made for the Xbox 720 or the PS4 or whatever toybox nintendo is releasing next, then I would revoke that statement completely.

After reading this whole thread I only have one thing to say: The Last Remnant.

That game was awesome on the PS3 and PC but barely chugged along on the 360. The screenshots were completely identical, but the actual play performance took a hit on the 360's hardware. Let's hope that Square/Enix learned a lesson from that and it doesn't happen again with FFXIII and FFIV on the 360. Until we actually get our hands on either one, we just won't know.

also, @ihmotepp: It's not the controller, it's the player. I currently have UT3 installed on my laptop and a 360 controller so I would be delighted to educate you on this. Say.... Shangra La map to 15 with instagib? Best two out of three? IM me if you're interested.

Originally posted by jakojako

by "dumbed down", i meant that the controls, attacks, and everything your character does is "dumbed down" from the amount of buttons on a keyboard to the amount of buttons on a controller

and also the graphic potential is dumbed down on consoles as well. This game will be made for a modern PC, and have options to increase the graphical quality and resolution further than a console could offer. Now, if this game were being made for the Xbox 720 or the PS4 or whatever toybox nintendo is releasing next, then I would revoke that statement completely.

Any usb mouse and keyboard can be used on 360, I haven't really tried on my PS3 so the controls are a non-issue these days. As far as graphics go, it is an MMO you are not going to get Crisis level graphics. The idea behind an MMO's requirements is try and fit a fairly broad range of users. One could bring up the point of graphical scale ability in which case it would not require much effort to implenent a hard limit on the consoles, though consoles inspite of what the "PC supremacy" crowd may wanna believe, perform on a quality level of a slight above average PC. Honestly, if you are expecting the visuals to be beyond the realm of an average level pc then you are looking for a single player experience. Not to mention the massive lag that would be generated by excessively high visuals.

As far as graphical update/upgrades, while some things may get streamlined and minor things may be visually added it often is never something that requires any users to have to upgrade their systems so this is a moot point. Unless there is some MMO that did a massive overhaul, that required top end users to upgrade to update their machines, that I don't know about, this is a moot point.

A lot of this is just that "PC Supremacy" attitude.

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

After reading this whole thread I only have one thing to say: The Last Remnant.

That game was awesome on the PS3 and PC but barely chugged along on the 360. The screenshots were completely identical, but the actual play performance took a hit on the 360's hardware. Let's hope that Square/Enix learned a lesson from that and it doesn't happen again with FFXIII and FFIV on the 360. Until we actually get our hands on either one, we just won't know.

also, @ihmotepp: It's not the controller, it's the player. I currently have UT3 installed on my laptop and a 360 controller so I would be delighted to educate you on this. Say.... Shangra La map to 15 with instagib? Best two out of three? IM me if you're interested.

The Last Remnant was coded badly ( i.e. rushed ) for the Xbox 360 and was ported to the PC with the same flaws. That's Square's screw up and has nothing to do with the 360 hardware. In fact, playing from the hard drive on the 360 sped up load times and removed much of the "chunkiness" but not all. Also, the fact that it had the exact same problems on PC as the Xbox 360 shows it to be a coding quality issue, and not a 360 issue. So I don't know were you get the idea it is awesome on the PC, when it is exactly the same as the 360 verson. Go look at any The Last Remant PC forum and you'll see tons of the same "what's up with the slowdown/stuttering" posts as there were on Microsoft's  Xbox 360 forums. PC and Xbox 360  users have been demanding a patch ever since the game came out and haven't gotten one to date. On that game, Square dropped the ball all the way around. If it "plays awesome" on the PS3, it's probably because Sony demanded the kinks to be worked out before bringing it in. Plus square had plenty of time to buff and polish it before release to PS3 anyway.