Originally posted by BullseyeArc1

Originally posted by grandpagamer

If its a good game i dont care if it beats Blizzard or not. Would it be bad to have SWTOR only have 9 million subs instead of 10? If SWTOR does get more subs than WOW it doesnt mean Blizzard is going anywhere.

 

Does Star Wars appeal to Chineese?      What everyone forgets is that more than 3/4 of WOW's population is in China.     Me I think this game will bring in maybe 1 million players, but that is a pretty big number, thiers only a couple million North American mmo players and a couple million European mmo players, and alot of those players are already taken by the mmos out thier.    I think its up to the market at the time this game launches.   Will thier be a good population that will try this game?    Me Ill play cause it looks like it will be a fun single player game, but will it appeal to a large population?

Chinese Players dont even count...no offense but read this flash paper article

www.scribd.com/doc/3559825/Mmorpg-Rage

Chinese players dont subscribe and pay by the hour which amounts to like 4 cents an hour. They do not have ANY real impact on $$ and sure once you get 10 million of them then you are making $100k. The MMO market is HIGHLY profitable ONLY from Western subscribers (NA, EU, Australia).

Sorry bub.

P.S. Slide 33 has the direct info

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by Minion552

1. Blizzard made big on wow cause it was tailored to the mass population. Blizzard them selves made a game based on lore that was put in place but was able to twist it to fit thier MMO.  Warcraft lore Vs Star Wars lore though is like compareing an apple to an orange

Warcraft is going to end with this Exp Blizzard has already started working on a New MMO that has not be announced yet but it has nothing to do with Warcraft/Starcraft or diablo.  So meaning that Warcraft is coming to its end after Arthas dies nothing more it was blizzards intent to make WoW and play it out they never thought it would have been as big as it was.

Blizzard as a company is great at marketing thier games and we seen over the years the funny wow commericals on TV the interent advertisments ect ect. But when it comes to stories and content in my opnion Blizzard lacks.. All thier stuff has been rinse wash and repeat and they them selves have not really done anything amazing since the last Exp BC.

People more or less play wow now cause there really is not much else to choose from out there that has as easy of a playing curve as wow does or the games them selves are really old and people do not want to go to a Vet community.  Lets be honest Raiding for one, how many of us out there like to raid with 24 other players that fall into one of these groups Kids/Married couples with limited play time/Teenagers who rather drink then raid anyways/Hardcore fanatics that scream in vent when you wipe on grobulas/Raid leaders who think thier way is the only way/ ect ect....   In my opnion wow is going to die yes it just is not going to happen as quick as everyone thinks. People said UO would die and hell they been around since 97 and still have an active community. 

2. Bioware has proven they can make a compeling story with some great added twists... They have made some very good RPG titles but they lack the experiance in the MMO world there will be alot of hit and miss with this game, I do think however they will be good enough to overcome some short comings.

Now do I think right out of the box SW:TOR is going to solve all my MMO woes...Doubtful I will say the first 3 months of a MMO will make or break it and I hope they know the constant nerfs that most MMO's do the first 3 months will kill the game like AoC/WAR/Darkfall ect ect...... They need to have a great beta test and a workable balance between jedi and the other classes if they can manage that I would hold on to my seats cause Tor will be amazing...

You know what I hate about post like these? People try to predict the end or doom of WoW and try to tie that in to the suces of their new up and coming game. This has been same COUNTLESS times about wow...COUNTLESS and has yet to be proved right. Everyone seems to have the answer...but it fall incorrect everytime.

What's even worse, these same guys chew others out who try to predict the doom or the failure of SWTOR. Can't have it both ways.

Blizzard is a thriving company that is more than capable of handling their share of business, and I can promise you that they are not going anywhere anytime soon. How did Blizz become the eveil empire anyways?

I really would like to know how you came to the idea that i was saying wow was going to fail? and further more Wow will end yes not Blizzard who knows what thier new MMO they are makeing will do. And if you look at the statment about Bioware it says they have a chance of doom if they do bad the first 3 months..So i ask you this did you read the post or bits and peices and asume something cause your post was far off anything that was stated????

Wow will some day end yes I said that but in the means of thier own doing they are makeing a new game= wow will be on the afterburner once it comes out= wow will start to die off... Like every other MMO  in the world once the story is over and the content is few and far between people will go to another game its just common sence is that day coming soon ??? No never said it was.

 I hope SWTOR does very well .... since I'll be playing it. However even the thought that it will squash WoW is ignorant at best. I know the Op will take offense but really that 's how it is. The best part of this thread is the Terry Tate avatar, you should have just posted some terry tate videos, because  this prediction sucks and has been overdone time and time again.

 What WoW did was an anomoly, the chances of anyone repeating that kind of success is slim and none. Not until the world population is much much larger. Could I be wrong ... sure. Am I? Probably not.

Originally posted by Minion552

I have to say that your wrong with your numbers SWG the first 2 years had 2 million active users hence the 2 million copies sold. SWG was popular at one time most people though did not play long enough to be a huge part of the community. So about 6 out of 10 players left the first 6 months they played the game.  Wow took most of thier Subs from EQ 2 witch was also a flop and the remaining people from the older games DAOC/UO/EQ/Asherons call all started loosing thier nunbers after the first year wow was out.
 

So more then to say SOE killed them selvs then anything cause with all thier games combined they may have 1 million users between all thier games Vs the 11 million that plays wow.

Think its more then Obvious that SOE should just quit and call it a life and never ruin another MMO.

2 million boxes sold over 2 years doesn't mean there was ever a point when 2 million people were playing concurrently.

Originally posted by Horkathane

Originally posted by greymann

Originally posted by Horkathane

about TOR beating wow

 

If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed.  It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did.  It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did.  It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good.  Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success.  Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion.  The world waits for dev's to finally get it.

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadfeature=3070&bhcp=1

LOL the only reason WoW got popular was becasue the idiots at Sony killed swg witht he CU. It was stated that Blizzard was worried that swg would kill them but lucky for them Sony likes to commit suicide.

OMG... yeah that's the ONLY reason.  It gets so dumb.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by BioNut

I really don't understand why one has to beat the other. BioWare is a successful company and probably has no intention to "beat" blizzard. Now, do they want to steal some subs from WoW? Yes of coarse but, I doubt they have daily "beat Blizzard" pep rallies in which they burn copies of WoW and sacrifice game cards to the MMO gods.

This whole competition thing is just for fanboys and bored forum posters to have something to argue about.

Besides, do we talk about how DICE has to beat Infinity Ward because they both make modern shooters with multiplayer components? No, of coarse not, but we may have opinions on which we enjoy more (I personlly play both games). This MMO competition with WoW crap needs to stop.

 

Well, Blizzard and Bioware have been in friendly competition ever since the Diablo-Balders gate (Not Baulders gate, OP) era.

man so many bioware fanboys, and noone can even spell baldurs game correctly.. its not balders its not bauldurs or what other random stuff.. i never played baldurs gate, nor been real bioware fanboy, first kotor was good, jade empire failed for me right from the start,

mass effect was great fun, and great game i still dont see it deserving more praise than wc games or sc, or any other good game from any other developer..

i dont thinkit  this mmo gona be something special, i have this feeling this is 2 months tops mmo, after which 60% subs will stop playing , do they rly have the story that good.. and  i mean story that can compete with witcher to keep me playing?

if you want to praise a game.. go praise witcher.. thats best story game ever, can bioware top that.. and make that story last for atleast 6 months?

they probably can top that.. but they wont make it last even 2 months. if someone like me will be playing 4-5 hours a day...

there is no pvp no crafting no edngame

we were told.. reroll

what kinda of mmo is that

ill take dragons age origin any time any day over tor.

as for blizz vs bioware, as many ppl said, thats different league, were you playing bioware games 15 years ago ? i was.. playing warcraft games.. was i playing bioware games.. no

do bioware have game that have its own lessons in school in particular country ?  or military actually allowing playing computer games.. and having its own team for tourneys?  ( starcraft korea.. both facts are real, )  no they dont

bioware is owned by ea.. thats only reason you ever need.. to know.. that bioware is just mediacory company which sold its soul to that atrosoty of a company ,

you can say blizz is owned by vivendi, but apart paying some part of profits or what else there might be , vivendi doesnt interact with blizzard

do you see vivendi sign on every blizz product or trailer.. no.. i dont even know how one looks

do i see ea sign on every new bioware trailer/product.. ofcs.. it takes 1/5 of trailer time to shown that god damn ea sign.. i hate you ea..

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Moodah

My dad is bigger than your dad.

My dad is a fireman he beats your dad

My dad is a policeman and he has a gun

... etc.

 

Basicaly - 5 year old behaviour :P

 

I will never understand why one has to "beat" the other one. They are two products, just go and put your money on the one you feel deserves it more compared to what you get out from it, and let the other people put their money where they wanto to and move on.

How dare you have a rational thought on this site. :)

it was a slip ...

won't happen again ..

I deeply apologize :P

Ok so bioware has not annouced yet pvp so we assume no pvp.. I doubt that any game that is based on a Faction system will not have pvp. Second crafting why in the world do people feel that they need this lavish crafting system to make a MMO be better?

You know what crafting was until WoW got a hold of it not that hard.. UO you mined some ore for awile you smelted said ore you made a sword....you take a axe to a tree you hit it, get some wood turn it into furniture..  Not go find 62 of this a rare bead from the mouth of this monster you can not kill alone then head over to the lake and fish for 6 hours for  rare fish oil then you need to make this but need 4 of em ohh but theres a 24 hour cooldown....Why in the world do people feel like this has to be in a game??? WHY i say... you like spending 6 hours farming mats next to some china gold farmer thats your bussiness I hope TOR does not have a long and drawn out crafting system.... I know some players out there rather have a system they can make oodles of in game money screw the econmy then sale us back the money on web sites... Sorry TOR wont have a easy money mode on it but I can say I am thankful for that cause I really dont want my private message bar filled with spam from people who sit at banks selling goods for 10x what they are worth...and the gold farmers spamming about buying credits at www.whateversite.com.

So in the end this game wont be for everyone we got that there is plenty of games already out that have those systems put into play so go play wow or SWG they both have long drawn out crafting systems both have on the fly pvp (battle grounds) sounds like what you want already is out there so go enjoy :)

This thread is dumb.

Originally posted by greymann

Originally posted by Horkathane

Originally posted by greymann

Originally posted by Horkathane

about TOR beating wow

 

If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed.  It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did.  It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did.  It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good.  Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success.  Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion.  The world waits for dev's to finally get it.

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadfeature=3070&bhcp=1

LOL the only reason WoW got popular was becasue the idiots at Sony killed swg witht he CU. It was stated that Blizzard was worried that swg would kill them but lucky for them Sony likes to commit suicide.

 

OMG... yeah that's the ONLY reason.  It gets so dumb.

  Yeah...I have to go with greymann on this point. Blizzard had many things going on to make WoW so popular...not the least of which is timing and luck. They created a generically appealing , malleable and addicting product...at a fair price...and marketed it all to hell. I think it was it's popularity which was one of the reasons LA and SOE attempted to wowify SWG...in order to attain similar appeal to a larger market...and knowing George Lucas's treatment of his latests films..and in particular...The Clone Wars movie...the market they were simplifying it for..and hoping to entice..was probably younger players..ages 9-14yrs...the assumed WoW crowd.

Originally posted by BioNut

I really don't understand why one has to beat the other. BioWare is a successful company and probably has no intention to "beat" blizzard. Now, do they want to steal some subs from WoW? Yes of coarse but, I doubt they have daily "beat Blizzard" pep rallies in which they burn copies of WoW and sacrifice game cards to the MMO gods.

This whole competition thing is just for fanboys and bored forum posters to have something to argue about.

Besides, do we talk about how DICE has to beat Infinity Ward because they both make modern shooters with multiplayer components? No, of coarse not, but we may have opinions on which we enjoy more (I personlly play both games). This MMO competition with WoW crap needs to stop.

You know I bet there are a lot of companies that actually do hold such rallies. It actually does sound like fun, we should organize one as a joke.

All joking aside though business is all about beating your competitors. There is a huge difference between competition and a vendetta. Competition in and of itself is a healthy way of approaching things like a business, especially a business like the gaming industry. Bioware and Blizzard are now competitors, which is a good thing because it helps to rally their employees to do better and better work, which benefits us as consumers.

Both are very impressive companies that probably completely understand their markets. Both are extremely professional and have extremely experienced studios. Bioware has a lot more RPG experience under it's belt though, so it stands to reason that SW:TOR may actually put a huge wound into the gorilla that is WoW. It will -not- kill WoW though and it entirely has to do with the difference between fantasy and sci-fi games. This is a very complicated issue that deals with an in-depth study of demographics that cover multiple dimensions.

SW:TOR has every chance to be a huge success though. If you want to talk about which company is better then you have to define in what aspect. RPG's? Bioware is better, hands down. RTS? Bioware has never made an RTS that I'm aware of, so Blizzard wins. MMORPG? TOR fits into a different genre than WoW does, it's really hard to compare the two.

You'd be trying to compare blasters, lightsabers and vibroswords and the Force to bows, swords and magic. Not to mention you have ships (maybe space combat, probably not though) and energy shields versus griffons and steel armor. These are two very different genres that these MMO's fit into and you honestly can't compare then. Historically speaking fantasy games have sold better than sci-fi games, either because that's what the market force wants or because more fantasy games are made, or maybe both.

Good games always stand above genres though, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Originally posted by Smikis

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by BioNut

I really don't understand why one has to beat the other. BioWare is a successful company and probably has no intention to "beat" blizzard. Now, do they want to steal some subs from WoW? Yes of coarse but, I doubt they have daily "beat Blizzard" pep rallies in which they burn copies of WoW and sacrifice game cards to the MMO gods.

This whole competition thing is just for fanboys and bored forum posters to have something to argue about.

Besides, do we talk about how DICE has to beat Infinity Ward because they both make modern shooters with multiplayer components? No, of coarse not, but we may have opinions on which we enjoy more (I personlly play both games). This MMO competition with WoW crap needs to stop.

 

Well, Blizzard and Bioware have been in friendly competition ever since the Diablo-Balders gate (Not Baulders gate, OP) era.

man so many bioware fanboys, and noone can even spell baldurs game correctly.. its not balders its not bauldurs or what other random stuff.. i never played baldurs gate, nor been real bioware fanboy, first kotor was good, jade empire failed for me right from the start,

mass effect was great fun, and great game i still dont see it deserving more praise than wc games or sc, or any other good game from any other developer..

i dont thinkit  this mmo gona be something special, i have this feeling this is 2 months tops mmo, after which 60% subs will stop playing , do they rly have the story that good.. and  i mean story that can compete with witcher to keep me playing?

if you want to praise a game.. go praise witcher.. thats best story game ever, can bioware top that.. and make that story last for atleast 6 months?

they probably can top that.. but they wont make it last even 2 months. if someone like me will be playing 4-5 hours a day...

there is no pvp no crafting no edngame

we were told.. reroll

what kinda of mmo is that

ill take dragons age origin any time any day over tor.

 

as for blizz vs bioware, as many ppl said, thats different league, were you playing bioware games 15 years ago ? i was.. playing warcraft games.. was i playing bioware games.. no

do bioware have game that have its own lessons in school in particular country ?  or military actually allowing playing computer games.. and having its own team for tourneys?  ( starcraft korea.. both facts are real, )  no they dont

 

bioware is owned by ea.. thats only reason you ever need.. to know.. that bioware is just mediacory company which sold its soul to that atrosoty of a company ,

you can say blizz is owned by vivendi, but apart paying some part of profits or what else there might be , vivendi doesnt interact with blizzard

 

do you see vivendi sign on every blizz product or trailer.. no.. i dont even know how one looks

do i see ea sign on every new bioware trailer/product.. ofcs.. it takes 1/5 of trailer time to shown that god damn ea sign.. i hate you ea..

Did you really just call out someone's spelling when you have like 20 spelling and grammatical errors in your post......?

And just so you know, Warcraft came out in 94, Bioware's first game came out in 96 (Shattered Steel).  Hardly some crazy difference in time they have been around.  BGate come out in 98, and was one of the greatest RPG's ever released (with universal acclaim from critics and fans alike)....but since you didn't even play it you wouldn't know.

If you don't think the quality of story telling in their games is great, then no type of story driven game will be good to you.  To throw the Watcher (which has a great story I agree) out there as far superior in terms of story-telling to Bioware's games is laughable.  They have had at least as good, if not better story telling in almost every RPG they have released......

Originally posted by andmiller

Did you really just call out someone's spelling when you have like 20 spelling and grammatical errors in your post......?

And just so you know, Warcraft came out in 94, Bioware's first game came out in 96 (Shattered Steel).  Hardly some crazy difference in time they have been around.  BGate come out in 98, and was one of the greatest RPG's ever released (with universal acclaim from critics and fans alike)....but since you didn't even play it you wouldn't know.

If you don't think the quality of story telling in their games is great, then no type of story driven game will be good to you.  To throw the Watcher (which has a great story I agree) out there as far superior in terms of story-telling to Bioware's games is laughable.  They have had at least as good, if not better story telling in almost every RPG they have released......

 

I would have to Agree here. Bioware has never really droped the ball as far as story goes. They have a good story board team and given a chance to make a star wars MMO after not one but 2 Star wars titles that hit game of the year I am going to have to agree with this guy. 

Originally posted by Horkathane

I am rooting for Bioware, this is their time to shine! They have a perfect record of games and are a solid development team and will PWN Blizzard! Thats the deal, they are stepping up to the plate. Cmon lets look at the record

Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect and the King of all time RPG Baulders Gate Its over for Blizzard. Blizzard got lucky with Wow, it was their first rpg. Diablo was an Action rpg not the same. The Masters have come and its Bioware! Wow is going to get pummled!

I would prefer to see Baldur's Gate MMO, that would be awesome. I dislike Sci-Fi.

 Funny. And here I thought it was all about getting a good game that I can enjoy. 

How silly of me. 

Originally posted by Horkathane

I am rooting for Bioware, this is their time to shine! They have a perfect record of games and are a solid development team and will PWN Blizzard! Thats the deal, they are stepping up to the plate. Cmon lets look at the record

Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect and the King of all time RPG Baulders Gate Its over for Blizzard. Blizzard got lucky with Wow, it was their first rpg. Diablo was an Action rpg not the same. The Masters have come and its Bioware! Wow is going to get pummled!

I think one of the flaws in recent games has been this obsession with beating Blizzard or taking players from their very successful game.  This is why we've seen a plethora of poorly populated WoW clones, and a number of revamps that have WoWified live games and alienated entire player-communities.

Personally I expect that Bioware will make an excellent game.  As you say, they always seem to put quality first.  I hope that they focus on doing their own thing though, and don't get distracted by Blizzard.  I think there are millions of StarWars fans that are not playing WoW that would love to play a quality StarWars MMO with good customer service.  This is what was lacking in the first StarWars MMO, and hopefully LucasArts has learned from this experience.

Bioware has made some good single player games.i have yet to see a good MMORPG from them.

Beating Blizzard is laughable,because i would be embarrassed if Blizzard had anything on my development studio.Blizzard is the classic case of average quality,aged tech and no advancements or unique ideas of their own.Basically if you cannot surpass Blizzard's stagnant developement studio,you are in for a fall.You are correct in saying Blizzard got lucky ..VERY lucky.

Other than SOE,i would say EVERY studio is banking on luck,even my beloved FF series was near bankrupt if not for SOE and the Playstation saving it via FF7.This is why so many developers are looking for speed development,they figure it is such a pot luck gamble,they might as wel lget it out fast and hope for the best.

Square Enix is VERY confident in their ability,i was extemely surprised to hear they have been working on FFXIV for already 4-5 years.Add in the release date and you have a near 7 year production,no wonder Square is the innovator and others are copy cat developers.

Well I can see the game doing well and yes Blizzard has done a good job with WoW I have played wow for 3 years and it was a good game but now that after this last exspansion leaves me wanting something to step up and do a good job.

I for one will not play WoW anymore and there is a handful of titles I am looking forward to  SW:TOR being one of em. If this lets me down I hope DBO if it comes out in america will be good and my last hope witch has already failed me in the past is Star Trek....  Champions online looks fun but looks like it will be fun for 6 months tops like COH was...

And DC universe looks 2 years out dated the ghaphics look really choppy ...i know its not finished yet but the game looks bad to me.

It shouldn't even be a compition between these companys at all. 2 different game worlds 1 sci-fi the other fanatasy. If it becomes an issue of popularity and numbers and income, we can forget about ever getting great quality games ever again. it will all be about that success formula that makes a game a great seller.....IE World of Warcraft clones. everyone will be making the same game formula and no originality at all!

And to those people who keep correcting the spelling of Baulders Gate.

I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt.

Spelling is not important! You understood what I was saying so why waste your keyboard correcting what doenst matter?

Originally posted by Horkathane

I am rooting for Bioware, this is their time to shine! They have a perfect record of games and are a solid development team and will PWN Blizzard! Thats the deal, they are stepping up to the plate. Cmon lets look at the record

Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect and the King of all time RPG Baulders Gate Its over for Blizzard. Blizzard got lucky with Wow, it was their first rpg. Diablo was an Action rpg not the same. The Masters have come and its Bioware! Wow is going to get pummled!

Yes, Bioware will win the world champions title! You weird person, you!

Lionhead Studios are the best RPG creators.

The Fable franchise and the Black and White franchise.

All they need now is an MMO.

Originally posted by bossalinie

Comparing Bioware to Blizzard? Man, get out with that...Bioware needs to watch out for Bethsiba(sp) Ent. ever more and their talk about a Fallout MMO....

I don't think I would even count the Fallout MMO for Bethesda..  They supposedly contracted it to Masthead Studios.  So all of the Fallout MMOs success or failure will be on those crazy Bulgarians..

I have always like Bioware games more than Blizzard games.  So, in my book, Bioware has always beat the crap out of Blizzard.

 I dont know where you Bouldars Gate fans get your idealized vision of the game, but it was incredibly slow and the combat was horrible. No real strategy to it, just a <spacebar>, click each unit, issue command, <spacebar> watch them do it, <spacebar> etc, etc,

And the system where you had to rest to be able to cast the spell again? lame.

I'm looking forward to SWTOR, and know that it's combat system wont be like BG (thankfully), but I saw all these people commenting about BG's combat being great and had to say something.

And my major concern with SWTOR is that it will be so "class story based" that it turns into a single player game..Or a game where you can group only with your class and when you're on the same mission.