but also. look who our president was.

The President isn't a King. The President doesn't make laws or tax people or even go to war...CONGRESS does that. Not the president.

Thats why Obama will have nothing to do with a VAT or anything else, other than not veto-ing it. If a VAT were to pass (and trust me, it never will), I would be blaming Congress, not Obama.

Originally posted by DevilXaphan

Originally posted by eyeswideope
 

Scroll up a few and read what I said. Make a 20% V.A.T. but remove every state and federal tax which is already levied against the involved goods and services. The V.A.T. of 20% alone could fund healthcare as well as parks, roads, and education.

I never said "No Tax", I said no "tax upon tax upon tax".

 

Not gonna happen because states need to keep their budget up to.

Unless there's an emergency, everything the states would have needed the tax for are covered in my post. Roads, parks, and education. They would still have their nice little money makers like state dmv fees, tolls, etc.
 

We need to remove the bloat in the state governments at the same time as the federal. and the best way is the trickle down effect that they have been using against us for years.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Focus*Bankai

that is true. the federal incometax is pretty much unconstitutional if you look at it thoroughly

Yes it is and if i remember correctly it was implemented to pay for WW 1 and would be discontinued after that. Must have been one expensive war.

The I.R.S. somehow became it's own law and government a long time ago. Honestly, without a real revolt of the people or some miracle of Congress, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

What i took from our saviors speech the other day was that we are pretty much screwed for the rest of our lives but our grandchildren will live in the land of milk and honey do to our sacrifice. A little tax here a little tax there, pretty soon we will be at the coveted socialist dream of everyone paying 40-50%. 

If you add it all up, you're probably already paying 50% in taxes.  Income tax, gas tax, property tax, fishing tax, hunting tax, cellphone tax, sales tax... I could keep going, but then this paragraph would be 20 lines long.  People don't realize how much government takes from them, and then government mismanages it and wastes it.

Remember that Obama also wants to tax air.   Of course that tax will be passed on to you.  Who elected this clown? 

It's been said Obama can veto this or that such as a VAT tax.  He has let Reid and Pelosi run amock in Congress, which has basically eliminated Checks and Balances.  There used to be The Three Stooges of Bush, Paulson, and Bernanke, but now that joke doesn't work anymore because we have more like The Five Stooges. 

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by mrw0lf

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

I think V.A.T is great in the UK because it helps the goverment pay for public needs like transport and it'll help you get outta debt. Thing like Dental and Health care can then be free because the tax can go towards providing the service for the unemployed. It helps everyone out and if you have lots of money then you wont care and if you don't or are unemployed then the tax can be there to provide help to you.

Here in the UK thanx to the tax you can have free healthcare so you wont have to worry about not being able to afford medical bills. We have bennefit money for the people who have lost their jobs to help their families and if you have to support your kids you'll receive more help money.

Tbh I'm happy to know that part of my money is going towards helping people who need it more than me.

 

When VAT was introduced to us we were told it was part of joining the EU and as such agreed to it under the sole proviso that our income tax was being reduced to account for it. Also in the UK VAT is only applicable on luxury items (amazing whats has come to reside as luxury, cake but not biscuits wtf) so many working class thought it would be a bit of an added equaliser, an extra rich tax. Prior to VAT we had free healthcare at a standard we can only dream about today, unemployment benefit (since before ww1)  and the best education system in the world. So the bastards give us the new tax, but it works out at about the same (roughly) then some transvestite gets in power about 15 years later and stacks the income tax back to its original rates.

At which point she sells all government owned services (read, public owned), our education now has trouble kicking out 16 yo who can speak let alone spell (just so you know when I was at school we used to get free school diners and milk regularly for nout).

Oh and that health service your so happy about is in a fucking mess ask anyone who works for it. We have people going in hospital for teeth extractions (because they can't get on the local NHS dentists as they have waiting lists exceeding their life expectancy) and coming out with bugs that eat them alive in a day because the twat who runs the place (thats right, your 'national' hospital is probably privately managed) has realised if he doesn't hire cleaners he can get an extra surgeon to perform a few extra operations and get more subsidy from central government, whether or not the poor fucks live 10 minutes after walking out the door or not is another matter. What any of that has to do with tax however I don't know, our current spend per head is about 18th in the world, we're just above Isreal and they in the middle of a non-stop war!  we got prats getting pissed or joining gangs and stabbing each other.

I will openly admit I'm a bit of a socialist but I wasn't born that way, what taxes you have in a country is almost of irrelavence, it's primarily the people living, growing and governing it that matter and the attitudes that our government has instilled into its young for so many generation now, ie, 'take care of yourself and your own and fuck everyone else' is what has been, and will continue to allow this country to slide into its home made cess pool. Denmark, Sweden etc have better standards of living because their population gives a shit about the bloke living next door, Jesus they obey the speed limits because they know it will save peoples lives. Here, we dont obey the speed limits when we're fined on a daily basis, if you can afford the fine, it's like a licence to go faster, it's unfucking believable.

END RANT... sorry

Out of interest, for those from the US, are they just proposing the new tax as an addon or is it in subsitution for a reduction in another?

As to the availability of doctors to see patients under the socialized health care systems , according to my sister in Wisconsin there are several Canadians coming here for health care as they cannot get in to see a doctor in Canada. Huge waiting lists is my understanding.

I have never had a problem and nore has anyone I've known. I'm sure a small percentage of the population does have a problem like once and just because they're vocal about it then suddenly it balloons up and everyone thinks it's always like that. It's like today when my internet went down for the first time in 4 years and I'm pissed off and suddenly I'm slagging off the ISP as if it's always like that lol, when really the service has been amazing. People just remember the bad and forget all the good.

Besides there is private healthcare is you really want it anyways so I don't see the problem, you can choose.

Only reason I am not going for masters is so I can buy m16 and hammer before shit hits the fan

It great to still see the gaming community up in arms to protest taxes.

I also agree government needs to be reform so the money goes farther.   I now pay more in my state income taxes then I do for federal because of  20$ credit from stim package. Although most  federal budget is being sucked down by social security and bad foriegn policys. You know. All the receivers of social secuirty I know of can work. They just want there money back. It just bad decision people shouldn't of let happen. Now the younger generation going to pay for it.  I could of bought myself a vehicle that would help me achieve more without social security. 

the poeople shouldn't of never allowed income taxes. The young generation now must free them self through blood again. Through history I never seen a peaceful protesting free a minority.

For social health care. I believe.  We have to much poor people, illegals, and people with unhealthy habits for me to support free healthcare. I would revolt if I have to pay for peoples bad decisions. There is already social secuirty to protect the unlucky.  My state also offer  free healthcare for emergency needs to people who can't afford it. I wish people would stop pushing free health care.

Originally posted by Brixon

V.A.T. tax will hit the end consumer hard. Since it's a layered tax applied to all stages of production, a business hit with the tax will pass the cost on to the consumer. Companies don't pay taxes, they simply pass it along with the cost of the product.

It boogles the mind that anyone would support giving the government anymore money considering how poorly they manage the money they do get. Look at the state of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare. Someday the government will take it all, and give you the state run MMORPG.

Image a state-run MMORPG, where players who spend most of their time logged off get a slice of your experience points and items because they are "unfortunate" enough not to have earned any themselves.

Naw, the VAT tax would be a final straw for the people in dealing with this administration, I think.  A 10% VAT tax is the same as saying EVERYONE takes a 10% cut in pay and savings.  Plus it would push our economy over the brink.

I think we will see this president for only one term.

It's been said Obama can veto this or that such as a VAT tax. He has let Reid and Pelosi run amock in Congress

Which I fully expected him to do. But the fact that he refuses to veto a tax doesnt make him responsible for it...Reid and Pelosi and their tax-happy Congress are responsible for it. Obama cant initiate taxes. Just as Bush didnt have the power to impose the war...only Congress can do both. The President can rubber stamp their decisions, but ultimately, it is Congress that has the power.

I didnt vote for him, but I doubt McCain would have been any better. The checks and balances are still there, but the American People decided they wanted both a tax happy Congress and a Tax Happy President. I disagreed, but I was overrruled.

Even so, I doubt even the current liberal government would risk pissing off Americans with a VAT. I dont see it happening.

A V.A.T. would be great for gaming, the higher the better. This will keep poor people out of games, and poor people suck. They are only good for soylent green.

I think US is a money hungrey pig!

In America, everyone is equal. (at least if you have enough money)

Besides healthcare, free education and all this stuff, did you ever check your countries debts? How will you ever be able to pay this unbelievable amount of money back without any tax raises. Other countries are already getting nervous and demand to change the key currency (for example oil market) from dollar to something more stable.