Originally posted by iceman00

Then there's also Dark and Light, POTBS, Darkfail, etc..... :-p

 

That's why I never look at "is this their first" as an indication.  I look at what their dedication is, how much quality time they are spending on something (real quality time) how they stick to their underlying vision, etc.

Yes, lets compare complete no-name startup gaming companies who routinely lied to their customer base with no background at all to successful gaming companies with long standing success in the industry... that makes soo much more sense.

Bottom line:

BioWare has a track record of releasing high quality, top notch games that win dozens of awards regularly and are almost always among the most anticipated games of their Genre.

BioWare has a track record of releasing blockbuster STAR WARS RPG titles

TBH I'm not sure why you folks are so pessimistic.  It's not like BioWare is an unknown factor here.  They're using an engine made by one of the best companies in the MMO industry and they're one of, if not the, top developer(s) in the industry.  

But hey, if you want to be pessimistic, be my guest.  You just look like a fool doing it.  I'm not saying SW:TOR will be a huge blockbuster hit... but I am saying it's far more likely to do that than to 'fail' just based on:

a) who's making it

b) the strength of the IP

c) The sheer number of Star Wars fans looking for a solid game

d) The fact that even as bad as SWG was (and is) it has STILL survived for over 5 years and has been a huge success (if not as successful as it SHOULD have been).

So... hey... yeah it's POSSIBLE BioWare could just completely screw the pooch and have a flop... but the realistic liklihood?  Slim.... very very slim.

Posts like the OP for page 3 make a lot of sense.  Will TOR be the best game in the industry?  Probably not.  Will it have flaws? Most likely... gaping flaws, in fact.  But, when you consider the company's history with the history of its competitors, it dominates.  Bioware is not known for releasing crap games.

Originally posted by CrazyIvanov

Where is everybody getting these crystal balls to see into the future?

i was laughing so hard when he said combat would be exactly like it is in the trailer.

I have high hopes for this game but I am praying that they don't follow the same old formula throughout the game, e.g. kill 10 storm troopers, collect this, drop off this, come back for more boring missions.  I am currently subscribed to 5 MMO's and I am about to cancel 3 probably 4 of them and may even cancel all in the next month purely because none of them really differ that much.  I have gone back to single player games because I feel I receive a better quality game overall.  Currently waiting for this and Jumpgate Evo to save my MMO soul.

will this game be a wow killer?  possibly not  but considering that wow is a fantasy game where star wars is more of a sci-fi game,  its gonna attract a whole different bunch of players and will probably be the most succesful game of its type, if its not we'll all quit and go play something else but me personally i'm gonna give this a good go when its released

Originally posted by chryses

I have high hopes for this game but I am praying that they don't follow the same old formula throughout the game, e.g. kill 10 storm troopers, collect this, drop off this, come back for more boring missions.  I am currently subscribed to 5 MMO's and I am about to cancel 3 probably 4 of them and may even cancel all in the next month purely because none of them really differ that much.  I have gone back to single player games because I feel I receive a better quality game overall.  Currently waiting for this and Jumpgate Evo to save my MMO soul.

 

 

Mutual feelings here.

Although I love Wow, I would  very much like a real science fiction game with planets to conquer etc...

Above I used the example of : "Dear Jedi (young paladin), go get me some 10 pigs in space (boars) with this shiny light sabre (Holy mace) on that Red Planet (Outland)."

If they fall into that trap, most people will not be satisfied. if they can avoid it with new challenges, they surely will get to the famous 1M subs market.

As for WAR and AOC: OF COURSE THEY FAILED. With such a lore and hype they would at least better the 10 year old record of 500K subs or the 4-year old record of 1 M subs.

But they failed to achieve those (very old) number of subscriptions. So clearly they failed (and of course War has only 40% players left of those famous Xmas sales "subs" of 300K. Just look at Xfire: 150K these days at best. They hardly have 30% more players than AOC).

------

----> The real challenge is having new techniques used in our mmorpg's. I bet KOTOR will have changing worlds according to your questlines, destructable worlds etc... (and I don't care if Blizzard or anybody else already used these techniques).

Bioware HAS the power to use these innovations, while Mythic and FunCom are just amateurs. As are the 35653th other "mmorpg's" out there. They should lock 90% of all those amateurs out of this business. Because they hunt people away instead of recruiting.

Kotor will be launched by 2011. Perhaps even other forms could gain intrest. Like solo adventures with on line achievements and small group interactions.

We need new forms, NOT 3747th version of overhyped "PvP" or "PvE"...with hampered gameplay.

I have no idea where the negativity concerning this game is coming from. The responses from people who played the game at E3 have been overwhelmingly positive. I realise it was only a small demo but the fact that the first time anyone has played the game has left everyone drooling for more is a great sign. They've been impressed with the combat, the way the story is driven, the scale of the worlds you play in. All has been positive.

It's Starwars, LA has proven many times in the past that you can release a turd, call it starwars and it will sell millions. When a truly good Starwars game comes along it goes supernova. The potential audience for this is huge, millions and millions. Add in that this game will likely end up being the most expensive game ever made, the fact it will be released when it's finished and not a predefined release date where's the concerns coming from? Having loads of money doesn't gurantee quality but in the right hands it can create something special.

As others have said it's a Bioware game! If Bioware released a new game next week that no-one had ever heard off that had no reviews. It just appeared from nowhere hundreds of thousands, including myself, would still buy it unseen on the simple fact that it's a Bioware game. Blizzard have this in thier pocket as well, who here wouldn't run to the shops to buy Diablo 3 if Blizz sprang it on us next week?

How do companies get these reputations and such faith from thier players? By releasing amazing game after amazing game for year after year. it literally takes years if not decades to build up a reputation like that and both companies realise that 1 bad game could ruin that. They won't release an unfinished/poor game to preserve thier reputation. There are only a handful of companies around the world that could claim a similar reputation.

I don't think we'll have ever played an MMO like SW:TOR and I for one simply cannot wait. Again I ask, what has been released that has given cause for concern?

Originally posted by Syno23

Most if not all developers forget about the endgame. What is their problem? So, if Star Wars : The Old Republic doesn't have fun and exciting endgame, it will fail like the rest.

Share your thoughts.

It may not attract the hardcore players that demands that it takes one year to level, but they can better stay out of the game.

ToR will have what it takes and it will not "fail".

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Mutual feelings here.

As for WAR and AOC: OF COURSE THEY FAILED. With such a lore and hype they would at least better the 10 year old record of 500K subs or the 4-year old record of 1 M subs.

But they failed to achieve those (very old) number of subscriptions. So clearly they failed (and of course War has only 40% players left of those famous Xmas sales "subs" of 300K. Just look at Xfire: 150K these days at best. They hardly have 30% more players than AOC).

Hate to break this to you but 300,000 subscriptions is NOT a failure, nor is 150,000 subs.  Just because a game doesn't hit 1 million subscribers does not make it a failure.  All games need is enough players to make a profit in order to be successful MMORPG's.  So neither WAR nor AOC is a "failure".  Sure they're not as successful as they could or even SHOULD have been, but calling them failures because they didn't meet or beat former "Records" is assinine.

If an MMORPG is profitable it's a success.  Guess what, you only need 50,000 subscribers to cut a profit on a newly released MMORPG.  Once it's paid it's development costs off that number drops significantly, down to about 25-30,000 subscribers.  Yes, most MMORPG companies prefer hundreds of thousands of players but the simple fact of the matter is that you do not NEED that many players for an MMORPG to be "successful".  Also, the most recently released data for WAR is that it still, as of May, had over 300,000 paying and active subscribers.  Regardless of what "XFIRE" says.  Just a clue:  Most people don't use XFire....

Originally posted by Syno23

Star Wars: The Old Republic will probably be one of the most amazing games, but after what I've seen, this game simply won't be a success. However, let's start with the basics.

GAMEPLAY:

Star Wars: The Old Republic will obviously have gameplay similar to the trailer most of us have seen in at E3 yesterday. I know Star Wars will have the most fun fast paced gameplay of let's just say all MMORPGs. However, Tabula Rasa probably had the most addicting gameplay in the world and it was shutdown by NCSoft.

STORY:

That is particularly because Tabula Rasa had boring quests and an uninteresting storyline. I know without a doubt that Star Wars: The Old Republic will have the best storyline of all MMORPGs. A fully voiced MMORPG, dang, I know it's going to feel real like a regular RPG. The storyline is already EPIC! The Sith vs. The JEDI! I couldn't ask for anything better. And, gameplay like Mass Effect and Knights of the Old Republic, you can't beat it.

ENDGAME: 

Age of Conan and Warhammer had some amazing gameplay. The storylines sucked but gameplay can make up for that. However, both games lacked endgame and eventually failed. They were released incomplete. I know Star Wars: The Old Republic is going to be complete, but that' the mistake BioWare is making, they are working too hard on the actual game.

Most if not all developers forget about the endgame. What is their problem? So, if Star Wars : The Old Republic doesn't have fun and exciting endgame, it will fail like the rest.

Share your thoughts.

  I cant really see where you got your definition of gameplay. If you mean, buged skills, cast lag, server lag, 1 bilion action bugs or even, press 4 and then 1, 2 or 3. That aint amazing gameplay imo.

You all realise that this game has shitty point and clicky combat right? A la WOW, EQ, SWG, etc.

Apart from it being in the star wars universe there is nothing great at all about this game.

SHITTY POINT AND CLICKY COMBAT = DULL DULL DULL GAME.

Originally posted by Mazin

Originally posted by hubertgrove

Originally posted by Loke666

Hmm, let us check PC bestseller games by Mythic Funcom and Bioware... Funny, Bioware have a lot while the other 2 have none.

Bioware know what they are doing. They have an experienced crew that made a lot of great games.

 

Don't let your enthusiasm run away with you. Bioware has never made an MMORPG before - and the number of undoubtedly successful MMORPGs is very small.

 

True, but the most successful MMORPG of all time was made by a company who had never made a MMORPG before....  Good companies are good companies.  And imo Bioware has a better reputation for RPG's than Blizzard.

As you said.. in your opinion.. because all time and even current numbers shows Blizzard games out selling EVERYTHING Bioware has done..  Sorry to burst your bubble..  I suspect that when Starcraft 2 hits the shelves, they'll sell more in a month then bioware ever sold TOTAL of Kotor.. lol  

Originally posted by Syno23

ENDGAME: 

Age of Conan and Warhammer had some amazing gameplay. The storylines sucked but...

Share your thoughts.

Fail right there.

I am sorry to disagree but the Storylines in AoC were actually quite well done in my opinion. I can not comment on Warhammer however.

mmo players do not care about storyline

what we care about is making a kickass toon and pvping storyline no one gives a damn about as thats for the lame single player titles tor should be about making a powerful toon and going out and giving beatdowns to newbies who can't hang in pvp thats what made swg fun

i remember rolling up to some rebel who shot at a stormtrooper and beating him down in a second needless to say i get the normal whiny why did you do that? that noobs like to say I told him if he didn't like it he should quit the game cuz it was clear he couldn't hang with me and he did

storyline is boring they have that in single player games this is an mmo and should be about pvp

and sadly bioware has shown that they don't want the game to be fun no pre-cu skill system and already bioware is pulling $OE's

the fail is strong in this one

Originally posted by stillkillin

mmo players do not care about storyline

what we care about is making a kickass toon and pvping storyline no one gives a damn about as thats for the lame single player titles tor should be about making a powerful toon and going out and giving beatdowns to newbies who can't hang in pvp thats what made swg fun

i remember rolling up to some rebel who shot at a stormtrooper and beating him down in a second needless to say i get the normal whiny why did you do that? that noobs like to say I told him if he didn't like it he should quit the game cuz it was clear he couldn't hang with me and he did

storyline is boring they have that in single player games this is an mmo and should be about pvp

and sadly bioware has shown that they don't want the game to be fun no pre-cu skill system and already bioware is pulling $OE's

the fail is strong in this one

Congratulations! A brillaint pastiche worthy of the pen of Wilde or the brush of Whistler!
 

Originally posted by hubertgrove

Originally posted by stillkillin

mmo players do not care about storyline

what we care about is making a kickass toon and pvping storyline no one gives a damn about as thats for the lame single player titles tor should be about making a powerful toon and going out and giving beatdowns to newbies who can't hang in pvp thats what made swg fun

i remember rolling up to some rebel who shot at a stormtrooper and beating him down in a second needless to say i get the normal whiny why did you do that? that noobs like to say I told him if he didn't like it he should quit the game cuz it was clear he couldn't hang with me and he did

storyline is boring they have that in single player games this is an mmo and should be about pvp

and sadly bioware has shown that they don't want the game to be fun no pre-cu skill system and already bioware is pulling $OE's

the fail is strong in this one

Congratulations! A brillaint pastiche worthy of the pen of Wilde or the brush of Whistler!
 

LOL.......

If the idea of a story driven MMO keeps peeps like this guy away, then sign me up.

Originally posted by stillkillin

mmo players do not care about storyline

what we care about is making a kickass toon and pvping storyline no one gives a damn about as thats for the lame single player titles tor should be about making a powerful toon and going out and giving beatdowns to newbies who can't hang in pvp thats what made swg fun

i remember rolling up to some rebel who shot at a stormtrooper and beating him down in a second needless to say i get the normal whiny why did you do that? that noobs like to say I told him if he didn't like it he should quit the game cuz it was clear he couldn't hang with me and he did

storyline is boring they have that in single player games this is an mmo and should be about pvp

and sadly bioware has shown that they don't want the game to be fun no pre-cu skill system and already bioware is pulling $OE's

the fail is strong in this one

angry pre cu fanbois do not speak for the majority if players

Originally posted by stillkillin

mmo players do not care about storyline

So you get to speak for me now? In what universe is that reasonable?

Not only is storyline important so is lore. Without it it's just a bunch of monkeys playing a skinner box with no thought required as far as I'm concerned. I might as well play atari pong as a RPG with no storyline.