Originally posted by Fibsdk

MMOs will always be years behind current technology. EQ2 was the only MMO i ever saw that was different that way when it was released.

And look what happened to that. They pushed the graphics envelope to the edge at the time and they had to guess how PC power would evolve and they were wrong. Creating the problem that for years it didn't matter if you had the latest PC the game would still run like crap or very sluggish.  It's only until recently (last year?) that they could add multicore support.

But what a serious headache.OP may not want to believe it but yes taking into account it takes 5+ years to even make an mmo and the game being ready for public play they will always be behind consoles. As great as some devs are they're not psychic. And not every PC players have is equal unlike a console of a certain generation.

Eh, the MMO genre is getting kind of shitty imo not because of graphics, but because of content.  Seems like 99.9% of the games out there want to give stacks of quests for leveling.  It gets old, game after game with different fluff but the same stupid quests that everyone else has.  Go ahead, call the mobs "whumps" instead of "rats" if you want, and your motivation for killing them changes, but it's still the same damn thing.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by Remus3

Originally posted by TacBoy
-deleted cause who hates long quotes.. i do -remus

 

-long reply quote- remus

 

What is the point of this reply?  Are you saying that gamers, thes ones who have to pay for these games, have no room to complain simply because we do not build games ourselves?  That's one of the most ludicrous arguments I've seen on this site, and I've seen a lot.  Extend your logic to other products and services people pay for and tell me how far you get.

"You have no right to complain about a shoddy car, unless you have acquired the funds to start your own car manufacturing business!" 

The topic the OP is complaining about is why isn't the mmo's being all pretty and next gen like.. but rather are 4 years behind the curve. i gave the exact reason why. it isn't cost effective and even more of a bitch to try and change gears in th mid process; he gave of the respite of being there and knowing we are all being lazy fuckers sucking our thumbs while shitting our pants at the same time. Sorry but we aint, we work outselves to burnout to bring a game to reality and im deeply, terribly sorry if that came off a tad wierd but .. hey its life.

- in essence, yes im SICK of hearing you consumers complain about EVERY FREAKING LITTLE THING when you have no clue to how indepth we have to work ourselves just to pull a prototype out of our bums to show our investors;

The gfx are shitty: people have shitty cxomputers and we gotta pay a 1m+bill...... hmmm

Same concepts are being reused do somethign new: new = risk, some studios are venturing a foot out there but we dont have 1m+ $ to throw away when what you guys say you want and then turn your back on us. Only a few companies can sustain a financial hit like that and I gladly play their older and newer games on a daily basis, guess which one.

so yeah if your going to complain and want a 78 MPG car, well... try and make one dear sir.. until such time keep your thoughts to yourself on how we as humans need to make a living and balance costs vs bonus'.

You know what the biggest problem with MMOs is? Eye candy? Nope. Innovation? Nope. Lack of talent? Nope. Lack of funds? Nope. It's the most basic business thing it the world. Project Management. You don't get the cool stuff if there's no time to add it and remove the bugs and make it run smoothly for a bunch or whiney ass bastards that have to have it all and Riiigggghhhhttt  Noowwwwww. Seriously. How anyone in the MMO industry comes even close to making a game in the current climate is beyond me. Even with the huge budgets some of these companies have they can't do it. If the guy running the show can't hit the marks so you get a train wreck on launch day. It isn't the corporate suit's fault the project is twenty million over budget and three months from being done on launch day. It's the lead developer's. Never time to do it right always time to do it over. It's not easy but it can't be impossible can it? The developers always say it's possible. And people buy it. Can't wait to get their hot little hands on the next big failure in a collectors edition five seconds after midnight on launch day.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

I think star wars the old republic will be the first real MMORPG. Its the first MMo promising to focus on the story, and nto just trying to see how many people they can jam onto a server at one time. The hero engine is pretty impressive, and i think st:tor will show people that, so basically while i am waiting for AIon and champions online, i have faith that SW TOR will not dissapoint.

I agree however, PC is the strongest gaming rig out there, and every MMO is always years behind what the pc is capable of , so far  behind that morons actually belive consoles are the best system

 

I think you are going to be in for a shock.  SWTOR is shaping up to be the purist theme-park game ever made, heavy on the solo play.  It may be an MMO, but I don't think it's going to be much of an MMORPG.

 

What makes you believe that will shock me, i hapen to like the idea of cinimatic combat, and solo emphasis. Most of the time i only feel like playing in small groups, 2 to 3 people and only really want to do multiplayer in pvp, another solo thing, the only community interaction i really do while leveling if i can help it is sell items to otehr players.

 

Its going to online, story driven, interactive in both the combat and how the story goes for your personal character, and there are missions that can be influenced by you alone and a full party. What part of MMORPG are you missing, sounds like you just confirm the whole "Gamers have no idea what they want" THought mentioned earlier. MMOs arent twiched based, so all of them are on some track, Bioware doesnt hide the fact that it is, and i think they will do a good job when launch comes.

 

I know what Star wars is offering, ive been following it since it was announced, and all the things you put down as cons are the things i actually would enjoy experiencing.

 

I think the MMO market needs to have a split down the middle and keep the Massively Single Player games like TOR apart from the actual MMORPG's. It's clear that there is a split in the philosophy of the two types of games, so why mash them together on sites like this?  That way, the makers of the type of game you and most WoW players want can move on with the business of removing every non-quest/instance based feature out of their games (they are slowly doing this anyway with each new generation), and the real MMORPG developers can go on making 'Open Ended' living worlds where the larger community actually interacts while gaming.

The two philosophies are at least as different as an RPG is to a true MMORPG.  Why not make it official? What you are describing sounds like a single player game with co-op to me.

Excuse me, a single player game like TOR. If i was you i would do some research before labeling TOR. It was said just yesterday by Gordon Walton, that TOR would have every element that all other MMORPG's have in them. Guilds, auction houses, raiding, pvp, exploration, crafting and even harvesting. The game might not be as open world as some, but it will have it's elements of sandbox thrown in there. Even though your toon may have his/her's own personal story doesn't mean that you won't be able to go out and do other things with a group that is part of the bigger picture. I really believe that BioWare has taken the best parts from many other games, thrown in the new stuff like full voice over and story, and are polishing it to be one of the best games to ever be developed and released.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

I think star wars the old republic will be the first real MMORPG. Its the first MMo promising to focus on the story, and nto just trying to see how many people they can jam onto a server at one time. The hero engine is pretty impressive, and i think st:tor will show people that, so basically while i am waiting for AIon and champions online, i have faith that SW TOR will not dissapoint.

I agree however, PC is the strongest gaming rig out there, and every MMO is always years behind what the pc is capable of , so far  behind that morons actually belive consoles are the best system

 

I think you are going to be in for a shock.  SWTOR is shaping up to be the purist theme-park game ever made, heavy on the solo play.  It may be an MMO, but I don't think it's going to be much of an MMORPG.

 

What makes you believe that will shock me, i hapen to like the idea of cinimatic combat, and solo emphasis. Most of the time i only feel like playing in small groups, 2 to 3 people and only really want to do multiplayer in pvp, another solo thing, the only community interaction i really do while leveling if i can help it is sell items to otehr players.

 

Its going to online, story driven, interactive in both the combat and how the story goes for your personal character, and there are missions that can be influenced by you alone and a full party. What part of MMORPG are you missing, sounds like you just confirm the whole "Gamers have no idea what they want" THought mentioned earlier. MMOs arent twiched based, so all of them are on some track, Bioware doesnt hide the fact that it is, and i think they will do a good job when launch comes.

 

I know what Star wars is offering, ive been following it since it was announced, and all the things you put down as cons are the things i actually would enjoy experiencing.

 

I think the MMO market needs to have a split down the middle and keep the Massively Single Player games like TOR apart from the actual MMORPG's. It's clear that there is a split in the philosophy of the two types of games, so why mash them together on sites like this?  That way, the makers of the type of game you and most WoW players want can move on with the business of removing every non-quest/instance based feature out of their games (they are slowly doing this anyway with each new generation), and the real MMORPG developers can go on making 'Open Ended' living worlds where the larger community actually interacts while gaming.

The two philosophies are at least as different as an RPG is to a true MMORPG.  Why not make it official? What you are describing sounds like a single player game with co-op to me.

Its not your place to start dividing mmos into categories you deem fitting.

I dont know why the hell MMOs do this but it seems to be the only genre that believes the next release is supposed to consume the last. Thats where the whole "WoW killer" crap comes from, why cant MMOs be released that cater to the people that want it. Yes, ToR is a different style of MMORPG, but that doesnt mean it is no longer an MMORPG, does that mean when mortal online comes out it should be labled MMFPRPG because it is done entirely in first person view? They dont make new genres everytime a console game tries to break the mold, MMORPGs do not have to do such things either.

I happen to like plaiyng alone most of the time, yes i like playing online games alone, The fact that ToR actually plans on allowing that instead of heavily penalizing it like traditional MMOs is a draw for me, and others like me. 

I actually want what ToR is selling and you are basically telling me i cant like it, because it doesnt fit into the traditional MMO mold.

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by MindTrigger

I think the MMO market needs to have a split down the middle and keep the Massively Single Player games like TOR apart from the actual MMORPG's. It's clear that there is a split in the philosophy of the two types of games, so why mash them together on sites like this?  That way, the makers of the type of game you and most WoW players want can move on with the business of removing every non-quest/instance based feature out of their games (they are slowly doing this anyway with each new generation), and the real MMORPG developers can go on making 'Open Ended' living worlds where the larger community actually interacts while gaming.

The two philosophies are at least as different as an RPG is to a true MMORPG.  Why not make it official? What you are describing sounds like a single player game with co-op to me.

Its not your place to start dividing mmos into categories you deem fitting.

 

I dont know why the hell MMOs do this but it seems to be the only genre that believes the next release is supposed to consume the last. Thats where the whole "WoW killer" crap comes from, why cant MMOs be released that cater to the people that want it. Yes, ToR is a different style of MMORPG, but that doesnt mean it is no longer an MMORPG, does that mean when mortal online comes out it should be labled MMFPRPG because it is done entirely in first person view? They dont make new genres everytime a console game tries to break the mold, MMORPGs do not have to do such things either.

 

I happen to like plaiyng alone most of the time, yes i like playing online games alone, The fact that ToR actually plans on allowing that instead of heavily penalizing it like traditional MMOs is a draw for me, and others like me. 

 

I actually want what ToR is selling and you are basically telling me i cant like it, because it doesnt fit into the traditional MMO mold.

I don't know where in my post I said you can't like what ToR is selling.  I simply said that there should be a new category of MMO games for the type of solo-friendly simplified theme-park games we are seeing lately so that the two types of games can go their separate ways.  I have no problem with the masses enjoying theme-parks, and I can see the appeal of simplified, hand-held gameplay for most people.

One has to wonder what the point of ToR being classified as an MMORPG is when the game isn't really designed to foster massive amounts of people playing together, or role playing.  As I said above, it sounds like a single player RPG with online co-op.

This is my opinion, and you are free to disagree. We'll see when it comes out.

I hope I wasn't the only one whose first thought was "Okay bye"

Originally posted by Mazin

Originally posted by SgtFrog

mmo is still a new genre and still quite experimental, you know you need to give it time, mmorpg has only really been evolving for a few years.

 

UO (which is really the first major mmorpg) came out in '97.  I don't think you can use "new genre" excuse much longer.

yes but there has only really been majour development and intrest in mmorpg in the last 5-7 years si its new.

Originally posted by Remus3

Originally posted by TacBoy

Originally posted by JGMIII

I'm tired of it, there's just no excuse for new MMOs being on par visually with games 5-6 years old.

Because I can tell just from the tone of this message that you are a game developer or have known a number of them and therefore have a well informed base upon which to make this statement. And as an intelligent individual have figured out that every single game company out there that is throwing millions of dollars into development just got lazy and didn't bother to do as well as they can. You must have a some truly deep knowledge because an individual such as myself that actually has been around game developers and the industry didn't know all of that. But, not to worry, your profanity and baseless opinion has enlightened all. At least I'm assuming you were trying to enlighten, otherwise it would just be an emo "this sucks, I quit, what I do is important enough to tell the world about" message in which case you would have just posted it on your myspace site, so it must have been to enlighten.

Although for a serious word on the topic, there is far more to take into consideration here than you seem to realize. Given your priority in game aspects I highly advise you do gravitate to the single player genre.

Just look at the games at E3 and now look at the game you fire up almost everynight for the "Massive" feel. It's pathetic and I give up.

Somehow I don't think you, your attitude and your complaints of "it's not shiny enough so it's shit" will be missed by your fellow gamers.

I've ordered myself a Xbox 360 and I await true evolution of video games, because it's totally not in the MMO genre.

Enjoy Eve and your Xbox. Seriously.

 

(And I find great humor in the fact that  your respite from these games that are 5-6 years behind is a console released in 2005 and an MMO from 2003.)

 

 

100% agree; dear OP, have you once delved under the hood and SEEN and FELT the financial burden it takes to just start a mmo game? According to your half lucid rants, I'd have to venture a no or you attempted to create a shit game on shit ware aka freebie software(take for instance RealmCrafter and its like.. really .. you get what you pay for.

 

back on topic:

Take a wild meandering guess at how MUCH a game engine, its rights + full source and then the manpower to alter the coding to fit the game being designed is? Well fyi, Unreal 2 (YES ONLY 2 !!) costs us indie's 350k $ UPFRONT, or in a binding contract of 3% royalties UNDER only 1 year license agreement .

now multiply that by 4 for a standard studio to make an mmo.. adds up pretty fricken fast. Now answer me this, do you have 1million dollars and the extra cash to 1) become and LLC(at minimum 200$) , File tax exemption forms +accruing fee's across multiple states (300$ minimum), human beings at 7$/hr to work on your game for 4 years . so its now:

7 x 40 x 52 x 4 = 58,240 $ for ONE EMPLOYEE .. a decent studio team consists of 20 individuals so tack on a X 20.

Investors being presented with an EXACT model of how your going to repay them AND make them money. Then cater to every single minimum spec for the Average Joe's hardware because your a cheap ass who went and bought a Dell.

So you see OH SO MIGHTY I HAVE SEEN IT ALL AND IT IS ALL UTTER SHIT , it aint freaking easy. Get off your high rocker and come back down to reality and understand THIS IS WHY WE ARE HAVING OT MAKE GAMES a few years behind the curve.

 

-My team is one of the few  to get a shot at the U4 Engine, if not we have the U3 Engine to partake in.--- Sorry we cant keep up with your unrealistic demands of current gen technology with an added price costs of roughly 500 k $.

 

-note ... thats maybe HALF of the charges and shit we as Indie Developers/Studios have to pay.

 edit in: please excuse my rather typo ridden vernacular ..  I'm human.

/rant off ... please go back to SP games and being disappointed why they didnt make them multiplayer.

As a gamer I don't give a flying shit how "Hard" it is to make a good game or MMO.

As a gamer I expect a quality game and my genre to move forward and as developers you are failing since the MMO genre is worthless atm with the exception of a very small amount of games that came out 5+ years ago.

If you don't have the talent or the balls to bring a quality game don't freaking bother!

Originally posted by Capn23

I hope I wasn't the only one whose first thought was "Okay bye"

Nah that was my first initial thought as well. Thought i would try out with a little logic first. Logic wasn't welcomed only emotional outbursts so as you i will go back to my initial thought

"bye bye then"

Originally posted by Remus3

- in essence, yes im SICK of hearing you consumers complain about EVERY FREAKING LITTLE THING when you have no clue to how indepth we have to work ourselves just to pull a prototype out of our bums to show our investors;

 

How not to run a business.

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by Capn23

I hope I wasn't the only one whose first thought was "Okay bye"

 

Nah that was my first initial thought as well. Thought i would try out with a little logic first. Logic wasn't welcomed only emotional outbursts so as you i will go back to my initial thought

"bye bye then"

Where did you get the idea that your logic wasn't welcome?

Hell i'm not going anywhere, I made it clear I would stay and play Eve.

How can you say Bye to the MMO genre if you still intend to play One?

Right now the MMO genre is really down in the dumps and a whole mess of people agree with me combined with the pure awesomeness of the games shown at E3 as a gamer i've had it with current MMOs.

maybe one day MMOs will have wide open worlds with 1000v1000 battles and graphics like Gears of War2 until that moment Ill be playing Eve and whatever state of the art game on my Console and PC.

Originally posted by X-Porter

Originally posted by Remus3

- in essence, yes im SICK of hearing you consumers complain about EVERY FREAKING LITTLE THING when you have no clue to how indepth we have to work ourselves just to pull a prototype out of our bums to show our investors;

 

 

How not to run a business.

Hehe my thoughts exactly when I read that. 

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by Capn23

I hope I wasn't the only one whose first thought was "Okay bye"

 

Nah that was my first initial thought as well. Thought i would try out with a little logic first. Logic wasn't welcomed only emotional outbursts so as you i will go back to my initial thought

"bye bye then"

 

Where did you get the idea that your logic wasn't welcome?

Hell i'm not going anywhere, I made it clear I would stay and play Eve.

How can you say Bye to the MMO genre if you still intend to play One?

Right now the MMO genre is really down in the dumps and a whole mess of people agree with me combined with the pure awesomeness of the games shown at E3 as a gamer i've had it with current MMOs.

maybe one day MMOs will have wide open worlds with 1000v1000 battles and graphics like Gears of War2 until that moment Ill be playing Eve and whatever state of the art game on my Console and PC.

I agree the MMO market is crap right now and not looking to be improving. But it has little to do with graphics. There is a reason why you won't see next gen graphics in MMOs. It just isn't feasible to change game engines mid way or runningly just because  new hardware pushing the envelope keeps popping up during the course of years of development. It doesn't matter if the company has endless of money to throw at it. Starting over means more years of development..years where newer hardware and software becomes available again. It would be a neverending chase.

Game companies either license a game engine or they build one from scratch themselves. They can make the best graphics the genre has to offer today..when it is released 4 years from now when the game development is done it will still look old because 4 years is a long time. Many improvements both in hardware and software will have happened over the course of 4 years. I mean they could start making MMOs that utilize Quad Cores today and when done years from now  8 cores would be a standard PC ..then we can bitch and moan how antiquated Quad Core is and why the game doesn't support 8 cores.

If you have a solution to circumvent that minor issue when making a MMO or MMORPG then i sure would like to hear it.

so making a  UO/Tibia with L2/Oblivion graphics is that hard? =(

well lets wait... =D

Originally posted by JGMIII

As a gamer I don't give a flying shit how "Hard" it is to make a good game or MMO.

Agreed. It isn't about "hard." It's about realistic.

As a gamer I expect a quality game and my genre to move forward and as developers you are failing since the MMO genre is worthless atm with the exception of a very small amount of games that came out 5+ years ago.

Ah, but  now you are sying something different. Before you were comparing MMOs to SPs and saying they should be equal. (Which is silly and ill thought out given that their scope and audience are completely different) Now you are saying you expect it to move forward. Well, there you are just wrong. The graphics of MMOs coming out now ARE better than the MMOs that came out 5-6 years ago. The audience gain (even not counting WoW) has been substantial. There are attempts at new ideas such as public quests, combos, combat decks, etc. And while they don't all pan out they spur on those in the future that will refine them.

It's like when Doom came out. Everyone copied it and the rare game pushed it forward and everyone followed. But in the meantime there were hundreds of clones that just plain sucked.

The same is and will continue to happen with MMOs. But MMOs are HUGE undertakings compared to SPs and so that whole process moves slower. The evolution slows down because there are fewer players to evolve and they take longer to get to market.

Tie that in with the fact that innovation generally comes from the little guy and the high barrier of entry as other people have noted and you won't have the rapid evolution you seek. Especially a polished super next gen engine.

It's just a different ball game no matter how much you want to cry about it that the developers for some reason you can't grasp are not giving you the eye candy you have deemed they should. I'm sure they'll weep over the lost dollars.

If you don't have the talent or the balls to bring a quality game don't freaking bother!

Yes. Otherwise you shall be very put out. As they continue to sell to audiences of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) that are happy to be playing. But, hey, we all know you're the key customer.

If you don't like a game, don't play it. But I don't think it warrents notifying the world.

Originally posted by TacBoy

Originally posted by JGMIII

As a gamer I don't give a flying shit how "Hard" it is to make a good game or MMO.

Agreed. It isn't about "hard." It's about realistic.

As a gamer I expect a quality game and my genre to move forward and as developers you are failing since the MMO genre is worthless atm with the exception of a very small amount of games that came out 5+ years ago.

Ah, but  now you are sying something different. Before you were comparing MMOs to SPs and saying they should be equal. (Which is silly and ill thought out given that their scope and audience are completely different) Now you are saying you expect it to move forward. Well, there you are just wrong. The graphics of MMOs coming out now ARE better than the MMOs that came out 5-6 years ago. The audience gain (even not counting WoW) has been substantial. There are attempts at new ideas such as public quests, combos, combat decks, etc. And while they don't all pan out they spur on those in the future that will refine them.

It's like when Doom came out. Everyone copied it and the rare game pushed it forward and everyone followed. But in the meantime there were hundreds of clones that just plain sucked.

The same is and will continue to happen with MMOs. But MMOs are HUGE undertakings compared to SPs and so that whole process moves slower. The evolution slows down because there are fewer players to evolve and they take longer to get to market.

Tie that in with the fact that innovation generally comes from the little guy and the high barrier of entry as other people have noted and you won't have the rapid evolution you seek. Especially a polished super next gen engine.

It's just a different ball game no matter how much you want to cry about it that the developers for some reason you can't grasp are not giving you the eye candy you have deemed they should. I'm sure they'll weep over the lost dollars.

If you don't have the talent or the balls to bring a quality game don't freaking bother!

Yes. Otherwise you shall be very put out. As they continue to sell to audiences of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) that are happy to be playing. But, hey, we all know you're the key customer.

If you don't like a game, don't play it. But I don't think it warrents notifying the world.

 

That's not even mentioning the average SP game today takes about 2 years to make compared to a genre where 4-5 years is the norm

Originally posted by dstar.

Originally posted by X-Porter

Originally posted by Remus3

- in essence, yes im SICK of hearing you consumers complain about EVERY FREAKING LITTLE THING when you have no clue to how indepth we have to work ourselves just to pull a prototype out of our bums to show our investors;

 

 

How not to run a business.

 

Hehe my thoughts exactly when I read that. 

Which is why he's qq'ing here instead of earning good money designing a big game.  Business 101 r gud!

Everything the OP mentions is legit i guess,but REPETITIVE?? name one game on the planet,that has been designed around the CHAOS theory?this means the game can  think and grow by itself.EVERY single game on the planet has repetitive game play,without it you basically have a game that is finished in 3 days or you have no game at all.

The graphic debate is a VERY tough one to argue and is not so easy to dismiss.If you want a game that is full of content and really unique and fun to play,you need a massive time line and cost to develop it.This means the tech will always be second rate,there is no way on earth you could change that.ONLY the single player games can forge ahead staying on the edge of technology as those games take less effort and time to develop.So you need to also be fair when asking for leading edge tech.

COST...are you and others willing to pay the cost  to allow a high bandwidth game and constant updates?I mean it "IS" possible for a developer to upgrade the graphics/physics but it is a HUGE undertaking.Look no further than the richest game on the planet [WOW}Blizzard has not used any of that wealth to reinvest into the game and give the players better graphics and it seems players are not crying for it,so why bother if you can get away with it??I appreciate a developer that would go this extra mile,but so far we are of the minority in thinking we "SHOULD" or expect it,as i said nobody else is crying or demanding it from developers.

This is actually a HUGE fail by Blizzard,as they are one of the giants that "COULD" reinvest into their game and FORCE other developers to follow suite or be laughed at or ridiculed.Blizzard has chosen to be pacifists,so it allows other developers to be just as lazy/cheap,so do not expect any changes in this area for quite a few years.

Originally posted by Remus3

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by Remus3

Originally posted by TacBoy
-deleted cause who hates long quotes.. i do -remus

 

-long reply quote- remus

 

What is the point of this reply?  Are you saying that gamers, thes ones who have to pay for these games, have no room to complain simply because we do not build games ourselves?  That's one of the most ludicrous arguments I've seen on this site, and I've seen a lot.  Extend your logic to other products and services people pay for and tell me how far you get.

"You have no right to complain about a shoddy car, unless you have acquired the funds to start your own car manufacturing business!" 

The topic the OP is complaining about is why isn't the mmo's being all pretty and next gen like.. but rather are 4 years behind the curve. i gave the exact reason why. it isn't cost effective and even more of a bitch to try and change gears in th mid process; he gave of the respite of being there and knowing we are all being lazy fuckers sucking our thumbs while shitting our pants at the same time. Sorry but we aint, we work outselves to burnout to bring a game to reality and im deeply, terribly sorry if that came off a tad wierd but .. hey its life.

- in essence, yes im SICK of hearing you consumers complain about EVERY FREAKING LITTLE THING when you have no clue to how indepth we have to work ourselves just to pull a prototype out of our bums to show our investors;

The gfx are shitty: people have shitty cxomputers and we gotta pay a 1m+bill...... hmmm

Same concepts are being reused do somethign new: new = risk, some studios are venturing a foot out there but we dont have 1m+ $ to throw away when what you guys say you want and then turn your back on us. Only a few companies can sustain a financial hit like that and I gladly play their older and newer games on a daily basis, guess which one.

so yeah if your going to complain and want a 78 MPG car, well... try and make one dear sir.. until such time keep your thoughts to yourself on how we as humans need to make a living and balance costs vs bonus'.

God, would you shut up? People don't quit games because they look bad, people trash and quit games because they suck.

We can bitch because we're buying the garbage some companies put out. You can STFU and take it because you're getting PAID to create said game.

Originally posted by JGMIII

I'm tired of the genre that is 5+ years behind current technology.

I'm sorry guys, I don't give a shit if its impossible to create a game as good looking as Single player games and keep that Massive feel of MMOs. I'm tired of how low tech MMOs look and play.

Just to keep a massive feel we need to play games with terrible combat mechanics, bad storylines and Repetitive gameplay?

If It wasn't for Eve I think I would have uninstalled every MMO I have on my PC after seeing these E3 Previews the last couple days.

I'm tired of it, there's just no excuse for new MMOs being on par visually with games 5-6 years old.

Just look at the games at E3 and now look at the game you fire up almost everynight for the "Massive" feel. It's pathetic and I give up.

With the exception of Eve, I'm done. Just look at games like Lost planet 2 and Mass effect 2 it makes me sick how fucking awesome they look.  Don't give me that shit that You can;t compare Single player games to MMOs because thats the god damn MMO devs that are brain washing your ass. The MMO devs are lazy and they know you will pay for 5+ year old looking games for that "Massive" Hook.

I've ordered myself a Xbox 360 and I await true evolution of video games, because it's totally not in the MMO genre.

There is a lot of other worse problems with the MMO genre than graphics. I do agree that MMOs should look good, and I actually think that the animations is a lot worse problem if we talk about looks, they are 10 years old in many cases. Why do my sword swings right thru my oponent after I hit them?

But there are some MMOs that actually look acceptable like Aion, AoC and LOTRO. Not FPS great maybe but at least ok.

I am more worried about that the genre have hardle evolved at all with the gameplay since Eq 10 years ago. They instanced many dungeons and in some games you can have flying mounts but that is about it.

However some future MMOs will look good, like Guildwars 2. They are using the latest technology for that one. Hopefully will TOR look good too but they havn't showed any actual gameplay left there.

Originally posted by Lydeck

Originally posted by Remus3

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by Remus3

Originally posted by TacBoy
-deleted cause who hates long quotes.. i do -remus

 

-long reply quote- remus

 

What is the point of this reply?  Are you saying that gamers, thes ones who have to pay for these games, have no room to complain simply because we do not build games ourselves?  That's one of the most ludicrous arguments I've seen on this site, and I've seen a lot.  Extend your logic to other products and services people pay for and tell me how far you get.

"You have no right to complain about a shoddy car, unless you have acquired the funds to start your own car manufacturing business!" 

The topic the OP is complaining about is why isn't the mmo's being all pretty and next gen like.. but rather are 4 years behind the curve. i gave the exact reason why. it isn't cost effective and even more of a bitch to try and change gears in th mid process; he gave of the respite of being there and knowing we are all being lazy fuckers sucking our thumbs while shitting our pants at the same time. Sorry but we aint, we work outselves to burnout to bring a game to reality and im deeply, terribly sorry if that came off a tad wierd but .. hey its life.

- in essence, yes im SICK of hearing you consumers complain about EVERY FREAKING LITTLE THING when you have no clue to how indepth we have to work ourselves just to pull a prototype out of our bums to show our investors;

The gfx are shitty: people have shitty cxomputers and we gotta pay a 1m+bill...... hmmm

Same concepts are being reused do somethign new: new = risk, some studios are venturing a foot out there but we dont have 1m+ $ to throw away when what you guys say you want and then turn your back on us. Only a few companies can sustain a financial hit like that and I gladly play their older and newer games on a daily basis, guess which one.

so yeah if your going to complain and want a 78 MPG car, well... try and make one dear sir.. until such time keep your thoughts to yourself on how we as humans need to make a living and balance costs vs bonus'.

 

God, would you shut up? People don't quit games because they look bad, people trash and quit games because they suck.

We can bitch because we're buying the garbage some companies put out. You can STFU and take it because you're getting PAID to create said game.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

I think star wars the old republic will be the first real MMORPG. Its the first MMo promising to focus on the story, and nto just trying to see how many people they can jam onto a server at one time. The hero engine is pretty impressive, and i think st:tor will show people that, so basically while i am waiting for AIon and champions online, i have faith that SW TOR will not dissapoint.

I agree however, PC is the strongest gaming rig out there, and every MMO is always years behind what the pc is capable of , so far  behind that morons actually belive consoles are the best system

 

I think you are going to be in for a shock.  SWTOR is shaping up to be the purist theme-park game ever made, heavy on the solo play.  It may be an MMO, but I don't think it's going to be much of an MMORPG.

 

What makes you believe that will shock me, i hapen to like the idea of cinimatic combat, and solo emphasis. Most of the time i only feel like playing in small groups, 2 to 3 people and only really want to do multiplayer in pvp, another solo thing, the only community interaction i really do while leveling if i can help it is sell items to otehr players.

 

Its going to online, story driven, interactive in both the combat and how the story goes for your personal character, and there are missions that can be influenced by you alone and a full party. What part of MMORPG are you missing, sounds like you just confirm the whole "Gamers have no idea what they want" THought mentioned earlier. MMOs arent twiched based, so all of them are on some track, Bioware doesnt hide the fact that it is, and i think they will do a good job when launch comes.

 

I know what Star wars is offering, ive been following it since it was announced, and all the things you put down as cons are the things i actually would enjoy experiencing.

 

I think the MMO market needs to have a split down the middle and keep the Massively Single Player games like TOR apart from the actual MMORPG's. It's clear that there is a split in the philosophy of the two types of games, so why mash them together on sites like this?  That way, the makers of the type of game you and most WoW players want can move on with the business of removing every non-quest/instance based feature out of their games (they are slowly doing this anyway with each new generation), and the real MMORPG developers can go on making 'Open Ended' living worlds where the larger community actually interacts while gaming.

The two philosophies are at least as different as an RPG is to a true MMORPG.  Why not make it official? What you are describing sounds like a single player game with co-op to me.

O really? Im sorry I had no idea I could only play with like 4 people in SWTOR, my crystal ball is broken right now so you'll have to forgive me. I mean forget that large pvp battles could be in, forget that large scale PvE fights could be there, o and why not forget the story that YOU the player moves with different paths. Now yes I used could because we don't know what will be in it but saying it will be a theme-park single player RPG with co-op is stupid at this point.

I am not being ageist but its usually the younger kids who scream for better graphics for all genre's of games

The formula to remember is GAMEPLAY > GRAPHICS always has, always is and always will be a fact, graphics do not maketh a good game

I will add onto that the fact that in singleplayer games it is alot easier to produce amazing graphics because it is easier to predict and even mould the amount of polygons on the screen at one time, its easy to decide which particular events will unfold and what the main characters limits are on actions. All this contributes to the smoothness of the game, and with that the ability to produce jaw dropping graphics

MMORPG's by their very nature cannot constrain this, 100's of characters can be on the screen at one time all doing different things, such as buff spells or fighter moves, its near impossible to predict the amount of polygons at any one time, and with that the strain on the actual server speed.

This is another constraint on mmorpg's a single player game is only processing what you see and what you are doing on your own computer, an mmorpg involves 1000's of people, your machine may be processing the graphics and events you are seeing but the server is producing zillions of calculations involving scenery, weather, mob placements all the actions unfolding at the same time

I find it completely unbelievable that you cannot see the technical limitations on an MMORPG compared to a single player game, its as simple as ABC to make it simple:

1 player, one computer, 1 characters actions and view to process, linear designed game

1000's of players, potentially 100's of servers, 1000000's of view points and actions to process, linearity is broken into BILLIONS of potential avenues of actions

If you want examples of games which attempted the GRAPHICAL superiority over GAMEPLAY view Ages of Conan or Everquest 2 and then compared them to really successful games like World of Warcraft. But please note there are always exceptions such as Lord of the Rings or Lineage 2 (though its a bit dated now

Just bear in mind that designing and implementing a smooth graphically amazing Single player game is like learning your ABC in relation to producing a MMORPG that will run smoothly on 1000's to millions of people's PC's

I would start to go on about the fact that MMORPG's also have to be able to cater to a HUGE market of varying PC power, in the hope of retaining as many subscribers as possible, but that would be just taking the piss because the whole argument is just tooooooo obvious