Do you think any developers actually visit and read forums like this?

It seems to me that it would be very easy for a developer to get a feel for what mmo players are wanting in games, the features they're dieing for, the features that they'll do anything to avoid.

Granted, there's a lot of worthless ranting and pointless fights, but even seeing how emotional players can get over small issues could offer some valuable insight.

I'm pretty sure I've seen some devs actually post to these forums, so to me that would imply they read them as well.

They read 'em. And ignore them just the same as they ignore the people who post on their own forums.

Originally posted by madeux

Do you think any developers actually visit and read forums like this?

It seems to me that it would be very easy for a developer to get a feel for what mmo players are wanting in games, the features they're dieing for, the features that they'll do anything to avoid.

Granted, there's a lot of worthless ranting and pointless fights, but even seeing how emotional players can get over small issues could offer some valuable insight.

God, I hope that they don't.

Forum communities are not representative of the entire genre.

A developer reading these forums might conclude that "the majority" of the MMO community wants a permadeath, FFA PvP, Full Loot Sandbox with no levels or classes, and spend millions of quid and several years on making a game that is so utterly "niche" that the vast majority of the MMO community holds it in contempt.

See Darkfall for emphasis.

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Originally posted by madeux

It seems to me that it would be very easy for a developer to get a feel for what mmo players are wanting in games, the features they're dieing for, the features that they'll do anything to avoid.

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LOL. Do you seriously think the jaded and ultra-geeky types that frequent these forums represent the typical MMORPG customer?

If you just read this forum you would think WoW sucks and everyone wants a "sandbox" game with little or no quests. Yet somehow WoWS makes millions of subscribers happy every month.

Do you think any developers actually read forums like this?

YES. FACT!

I know for a fact they do.

"Do you think any developers actually visit and read forums like this?"

No, the amount of trolling on this site would make for painful reading by a dev. The number of thoughtful replies that are worth reading are pretty low. 

Yeah I bet lots do, I actually think I've seen the dev of some game post here once. Was a long time ago though, so I could be wrong. I really hope the ones that do read take what they see here as a pinch of salt. Most of it anyway, most of this forum is filled with drivel, as with the rest of the public gaming forums I suppose.

Oh god they need to stay away from these forums, nobody is happy about any games here lol...well i am happy with games, just enjoy the drama i suppose lol.

Originally posted by madeux

It seems to me that it would be very easy for a developer to get a feel for what mmo players are wanting in games, the features they're dieing for, the features that they'll do anything to avoid.

Believe it or not, -most- MMO developers have different priorities and don't really care what you want or don't want.

The most important things to MMO designers is retention, keeping players playing. There are seminaries and behind-closed-door meeting which talk about game design, compulsive behavoir and how to get players playing as long as possible.

To bad the forum communities don't represent shit. The more they listen to forum communities the more people they will lose.

Yes they do read these forums.

People don't develop games to make money, they do it because they love games and/or technology. Would they like to make money? Hell yes! But developers also take pride in their work. Please note this excludes shovelware developers and people in publishing and funding games who are just looking to make the bucks.

I do believe that developers at least occasionally skim MMO sites just like they might occasionally read their own games forums, looking for ideas and what not.

Originally posted by Waterlily

Believe it or not, -most- MMO developers have different priorities and don't really care what you want or don't want.

The most important things to MMO designers is retention, keeping players playing. There are seminaries and behind-closed-door meeting which talk about game design, compulsive behavoir and how to get players playing as long as possible.

Well, some devs are often on forums, like Jeff Strain (Guildwars, Diablo, Warcraft 3, early Wow). Others really don't care at all and think they knows what is best for players.

But you really must know what the players want to make a big game, the reason for Wows success is that Blizzard knew what their fans wanted and gave it to them. On the other hand you can give the players all they want, they want different things and sometimes it would totally kill the balance.

But many devs like playing games themselves and some of them spend times on forum (Kaplan, head dev of Wow until a month ago got the job because he played in the same EQ guild as Morhaime).

The best games are made by gamers for gamers.

Originally posted by madeux

Do you think any developers actually visit and read forums like this?

It seems to me that it would be very easy for a developer to get a feel for what mmo players are wanting in games, the features they're dieing for, the features that they'll do anything to avoid.

Granted, there's a lot of worthless ranting and pointless fights, but even seeing how emotional players can get over small issues could offer some valuable insight.

Yes they do and some companies like SOE and Funcom make their employees post here pretending to be be players. These forumsa re a huge marketing oppurtunity for MMO's and an ethically challenged company like Funcom or SOE can abuse these forums for their gain.

Originally posted by Loke666

The best games are made by gamers for gamers.

QFT...this padawan has much promise.  :)

Devs?  some probably browse...

Marketing people?  You bet.

Originally posted by Loke666

The best games are made by gamers for gamers.

Not so much actually. Gamers in general are a very very large collection of individuals. No 4 are exactly alike in their prefrences, strategies, and behavior. What makes you think a collection of gamers could create a great game? Also keep in mind that most developers are in fact gamers.

In order for that statement to be 100% in-argueably true then every gamer would have to be pretty much identicle which kind of kills the point of being one.

Technically anyone who plays WoW is "a gamer". Anyone who plays Mario Kart is "a gamer". I don't know about you but I don't want to play a game that features barely dressed night elves on dirt bikes shooting turtle shells at eachother.

 I'm a designer (though most of my 9 years experience is QA, and I haven't worked on MMOs - but am looking for MMO jobs), and I imagine other devs view these forums the same way I do: filtering comments through their own design experience and knowledge, and holding on to the best 4-5% of suggestions to potentially use some of the concepts where they fit.

So "read"?  Yes.  "Follow bad suggestions blindly"?  No.

Yes I know of one dev who frequents these forums.

As a designer/producer in training, i can say that yes, developers do read forums like this.

Do they take everything that is said here seriously??? no... :) Someone mature and smart enough that would read this forums would only take the best and leave the bs behind and sadly there is alot of it.

But gota listen to the players to know what they want right?

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Originally posted by Axehilt

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I have largely the same expectations as Axehilt. If I was in the industry, I'd be doing my job 99.9% of the time and would read a forum post or blog article when somebody brought it to my attention. There is very little innovation to be found on MMORPG.com.

If I wanted to understand what players wanted, I'd be looking at the way existing games were being received and played and at surveys and polls that had been conducted through the years.

Other than that, I know that there are a few places on the web where the 'names' in the industry get together to talk about this or that. TerraNova is one. The MUD-Dev mailing list was another. I'm sure they visit those because it is a way of staying in touch with their peers, new and old.

They do read, but they can’t just act on a good idea they find here. They need the nod of department heads, the lead designer and even permission from those funding the game to make many of the changes suggested here.

Originally posted by qweniden

 

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Originally posted by madeux

 

It seems to me that it would be very easy for a developer to get a feel for what mmo players are wanting in games, the features they're dieing for, the features that they'll do anything to avoid.

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LOL. Do you seriously think the jaded and ultra-geeky types that frequent these forums represent the typical MMORPG customer?

If you just read this forum you would think WoW sucks and everyone wants a "sandbox" game with little or no quests. Yet somehow WoWS makes millions of subscribers happy every month.

 

Sadly you can never convince the forum users that they are a minority of the game and their beliefs are not everyone else's. I remember on Asheron's Call when one of the Devs politely posted that the forum users were the "vocal minority" in response to why when several people on the forums wanted something changed that it wasn't changed. The forum users went nuts saying how the devs were idiots for not understand that their views were the same as those playing the game and all that normal bs. Forum users want to believe they are important, they know all, and could do a better job. The other long ago Asheron's Call post (was a community relations guy this time) was telling the forum users they had a "false sense of entitlement" that didn't go over to well with the posters either.
 

But yes devs browse their own forums and I'm sure every other large forum site, along with large review sites etc. Does that mean they're going to change the game based on posts? No of course not (if they're smart), but it can give them topics to go get more in depth information on to see how the player base at large feels.

It's like the article they had a couple weeks ago talking about how despite how everyone on the forums say they want less kill tasks and more innovative in depth quests, the metrics show that players only complete the kill tasks and simple quests and actually skip over the in depth and more difficult quests. Forum posters tend to be a much more involved gamer, and usually more on the hardcore side (as in enjoying a challenge with an actual chance to fail). Where as the vast majority of the players of MMOs (which don't ever use any forum anywhere) want an easy game that doesn't take much effort and always rewards you. This is the very reason why you don't see any of the forum ideas or topics implemented into a game, only the few people posting actually want it.