Originally posted by Joppari

I don't think that the title of this thread does the post justice.

 

The OP makes some fairly rational assumptions based upon what is currently known about the game and taking into account that it's not all that much, he may well be fairly close to the mark.

 

I'm looking forward to this game and Bioware have always made great RPGs, but making a great MMORPG that allows it's players to create something of an alternate life within a persistant virtual world and making a great RPG that lots of people play at the same time are two different things.

 

I'm thinking that ToR is going to be the second of those two things.

My opinion is that TOR will be more likely to be 'Guildwars in the Star Wars world', some of this is accurate with the OP's findings. However, the most pressing flaw or 'failure' in the OP's post is that most people do not want a pre-cu SWG clone, or any other type of sandbox game.

I will wait, and see what the game is like. If its Guildwars in space but well made, I will play it, if its a sandbox game(not likely) and well made, I will play it.

The fact is, it is way too early to satrt making ill-founded conclusions and proclaiming doom for a game that is nowhere near release.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Joppari

I don't think that the title of this thread does the post justice.

 

The OP makes some fairly rational assumptions based upon what is currently known about the game and taking into account that it's not all that much, he may well be fairly close to the mark.

 

I'm looking forward to this game and Bioware have always made great RPGs, but making a great MMORPG that allows it's players to create something of an alternate life within a persistant virtual world and making a great RPG that lots of people play at the same time are two different things.

 

I'm thinking that ToR is going to be the second of those two things.

My opinion is that TOR will be more likely to be 'Guildwars in the Star Wars world', some of this is accurate with the OP's findings. However, the most pressing flaw or 'failure' in the OP's post is that most people do not want a pre-cu SWG clone, or any other type of sandbox game.

 

I will wait, and see what the game is like. If its Guildwars in space but well made, I will play it, if its a sandbox game(not likely) and well made, I will play it.

 

The fact is, it is way too early to satrt making ill-founded conclusions and proclaiming doom for a game that is nowhere near release.

Hmm, you must have been one of the poor saps much like myself that was not gifted with a crystal ball at birth and has to rely on common sense . . .

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

 Its just a KOTOR game, that will have extremely limited online features.

And you know that how? How do you know how much online features it will have?

How about you shut up already and wait for the release and then judge? You hate people for hyping but you are the irrational one.

Wow, for a game that is nowhere near release (by your own admission) and for which we have very, very little information you sure seem to think you know a hell of a lot about it! Although you are trying to make a pretty bad case of something based on irrelevance (I don't think player housing will make or break SWTOR) and the complete unknown (instancing, combat system...).

It's fair to say that the trailer is just hype, it doesn't tell us anything other than BioWare and LucasArts can make funky trailers, which has very little reflection (good or bad) on their ability to make an MMO.

If the game really is that far away from release then maybe they are over-hyping it at this stage, who can say.

Personally I think this game is going to be kick ass, I have a lot of respect for BioWare, just a personal opinion. I 'm not dumb enough to go posting rants saying how great it will be when there is no information to back it up.

Oh, light sabre kids? Star Wars the film was released in 1977, heck, I'm 36 and I think light sabres are cool so if you're calling me a kid and all the other generations of people that grew up with the Star Wars IP then maybe this was never the right game for you to start with.

The only thing you've really convinced me of is your absolute "epic fail" ignorance. This game is being kept so tight underwraps and details are being released so slowly how on earth could you even begin to think that you know what your talking about?

Sit back, take a deep breath, and wait for bioware to publish more about the game. Cause last time I checked they never stated that there would be no crafting, space flight, etc. in the game. I can pretty much counter everything that your saying with a "details on that subject haven't been released."

I agree with one of the posters on the first page, you give all Pre-CU SWG vets a bad name.

To each his own I guess.

TBH I wound up in TL;DR mode about 1/4 of the way through the rant when I hit 'massive assumption #XYZ'.

Bottom line:

We don't know all the details, BioWare doesn't want us to know all the details and, until we DO know the details all we can do is make WAGs... (Wild Ass Guesses, AKA: Assumptions)

Bottom line:

We don't know and it's too early to tell.

But... if I had to wager, I'd suspect that the final release of TOR will be similar in many aspects to Star Wars:KotOR

Also:  If I had to wager:  It'll be a good, and fun, game....

Also:  If I had to wager:  A lot of people will build up unrealistic expectations and/or have their own ideas about what it SHOULD be like and will wind up pissed off because they didn't get what they wanted/expected.

Personally?  I plan to take a 'wait and see' attitude about the game.  I'm sure it won't be 100% what I am looking for in a Star Wars game... none of them ever has been.  But I'm also sure, given that it's BioWare... that if I keep an open mind the game will more than likely be quite good and at least worth giving a try.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Joppari

I don't think that the title of this thread does the post justice.

 

The OP makes some fairly rational assumptions based upon what is currently known about the game and taking into account that it's not all that much, he may well be fairly close to the mark.

 

I'm looking forward to this game and Bioware have always made great RPGs, but making a great MMORPG that allows it's players to create something of an alternate life within a persistant virtual world and making a great RPG that lots of people play at the same time are two different things.

 

I'm thinking that ToR is going to be the second of those two things.

My opinion is that TOR will be more likely to be 'Guildwars in the Star Wars world', some of this is accurate with the OP's findings. However, the most pressing flaw or 'failure' in the OP's post is that most people do not want a pre-cu SWG clone, or any other type of sandbox game.

 

I will wait, and see what the game is like. If its Guildwars in space but well made, I will play it, if its a sandbox game(not likely) and well made, I will play it.

 

The fact is, it is way too early to satrt making ill-founded conclusions and proclaiming doom for a game that is nowhere near release.

Hmm, you must have been one of the poor saps much like myself that was not gifted with a crystal ball at birth and has to rely on common sense . . .

Yes, it seems we are a minority on this site.

We'll we know they have story, lots of story, 100's of hours of story and no one makes story like Bioware. I can't wait to read how awesome the story describing why it's noble, heroic and an epic hero's journey to kill ten rats or the new option to kill ten boars instead. This story is just so epic. Like the cinematic, the story I get to play as a Jedi with a light saber is going to be awesome, so mind blowing awesome that I will want to log in just to discover the magic of the new fourth pillar of mmorpg gameplay. I don't really need to even try and guess at what that means like the original poster. Bioware is just too awesome to not have solved the problems every other mmorpg has had implementing stories players actually care enough to read a couple of paragraphs about.

Here's to waiting on Wednesday for a hint at what all this marketing goop really means.

As long as the Rpg part of the SwTor will be the same as the other bioware games , i dont care how many weapons , crafted items , classes , or races there will be.And since it's Bioware we are talking about i am sure they will add as many races and classes as possible relyin on their previous products to back up the rpg part of this game.

It doesnt matter if they release the game in 2011 or 2012.Seriously i dont want them to hurry.They should do their best and release the product when it's really ready.

No need to say anything about the other conclusions you have made cause it  really comes to one thing at the end; what we expect from this game. A combat based game with crafting and large scales of maps , or a game that s really rpg oriented and cares about the story line like the games baldur's gate, neverwinter nights ..etc.(I am not sayin that Rpg games shouldnt / dont have crafting / combat / big maps , but thats just not the main stuff they offer or the players of those games want to see )

Lastly , i hope Bioware makes this games the way they made their other games.And liked they said, i hope they will really focus on the RPG part of the MMORPG word.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Joppari

I don't think that the title of this thread does the post justice.

 

The OP makes some fairly rational assumptions based upon what is currently known about the game and taking into account that it's not all that much, he may well be fairly close to the mark.

 

I'm looking forward to this game and Bioware have always made great RPGs, but making a great MMORPG that allows it's players to create something of an alternate life within a persistant virtual world and making a great RPG that lots of people play at the same time are two different things.

 

I'm thinking that ToR is going to be the second of those two things.

My opinion is that TOR will be more likely to be 'Guildwars in the Star Wars world', some of this is accurate with the OP's findings. However, the most pressing flaw or 'failure' in the OP's post is that most people do not want a pre-cu SWG clone, or any other type of sandbox game.

 

I will wait, and see what the game is like. If its Guildwars in space but well made, I will play it, if its a sandbox game(not likely) and well made, I will play it.

 

The fact is, it is way too early to satrt making ill-founded conclusions and proclaiming doom for a game that is nowhere near release.

Hmm, you must have been one of the poor saps much like myself that was not gifted with a crystal ball at birth and has to rely on common sense . . .

 

Yes, it seems we are a minority on this site.

Still deciding whether I'm included in that or the target of that one...

 you're not a gamer, then dont play or wait for a game like this, it is the settting, genre, bioware  stuff that ppl love, and i love all the rpg games from them, only difference from this is, it will be a fully story driven mmo, with full voice over, no text in quests etc. a rpg with mmo elements, i love that. and i never liked the pvp in mmo's, because ppl always find ways to cheat and ppl who play 24/7 get major benefits over the ppl who just like to jump in and enjoy the story, fun. this is a next gen RPG-mmo, and it will rock.

Originally posted by Superwasbeer

Originally posted by mcharj11

Originally posted by Superwasbeer

Originally posted by mcharj11

Originally posted by Superwasbeer

You sound like a Sith, because only they deal in absolutes.

 

Lol that in itself is an absolute.

 

You do not think rational...... much like a Sith as well

 

You don't know the power of the darkside!!!

 

mcharj11, you were said to destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave us in darkness!!!! You were like a brother to me! I LOVED U MCHARJ11.

ROFL!

Originally posted by Draccan

 

New trailer looked sweet and awesome. But what is a cinematics trailer for a game? Nothing. Once you play the game it won't matter. Cinematics trailers are just fun. And this one rivalled some of the best cinematics I have seen.

Yes it was fun but obviously not what the game was going to look like. Pity that

 But truth is that Bioware is still keeping major parts of what this game is about under wraps. But for sure some things can be concluded now:

1. Classes. Players will be stuck in one class.
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes
Seems to be eight classes. Jedi: Trooper, Jedi, Smuggler | Sith: Sith, Bounty Hunter

Ok by me

2. Factions. Players will be stuck in a faction - nothings points to mobility in allegiance.
Treaty of Coruscant = no real pvp
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/allegiances

I dont' know if that's true, I thought they said that one's decisions altered the gameplay. Perhaps I'm mistaken

3. Space. Not going to be included. We would have known by now.
Some will add: SWG didn't have it at launch, but this isn't 2003. Market is now very over-saturated with mmos and will be even more in a few years. Companies like Funcom counts on selling just enough copies at launch to give them a surplus. They know their games don't have lasting potential. ToR will have even less longevity than AoC.

Just because there are a lot of games out there doesn't mean that a new game has to panic and throw in everything but the kitchen sink. It will come when it will come. Let them get the main game "right" first.

4. Instances. Hard to say, but I wouldn't be surprised they go the way of AoC.

I think there will be instances.

5. Crafting. Bioware states time and time again that this game is about story and heroes. Crafting is not part of their thought-proces. It isn't that slick, so why include it. Crafting is about creating your OWN story. And Bioware's idea of story-telling is that THEY need to direct your story.

Crafting is about making stuff. And not even making things but gathering bits and pieces so when you have enough bits and pieces you can get an item. When my friend played SWG he said that the entire thing felt like a second job. You can have crafting. It's not very exciting to me.

6. Non-combat classes. This game will center on heroes. Meaning, vanilla gameplay with limited options. Don't expect anything but minor non-combat skills.

Well, it's hard to follow the adventures of a space accountant and his efforts to balance the books.

7.  Release date. Not going to be before 2011. These games always get postponed. Just wait and see. Could even be later.

It is what it is

8. Gameplay linear? Yes it will be. While technically possible to create great stories in a non-linear environment.

I think it is Linear but that you will have some choices. I suppose it will be like KOTOR

9. Housing? Player Cities? Housing and player cities also goes against the grain of their story-driven mmo where players are heroes, not housebuilder or crafters.

I don't remember at any one time, when Star Wars first came out, any individual going nuts over the houses or being a Bartender on Tattooine.

10. Combat system. Not much is known. But it will be smaller variety on the WoW/EQ formula. Sort of like other games like TCoS or AoC tries to change the formula. Don't expect something truly different, but something towards those lines. Maybe with a few twitch elements here and there.

I think they said they were going to try to make combat more visceral, which I am for.

11. Jedis. This time period is chosen to appeal to all the kids who wants to have a light-saber swining jedi (or sith). It is the lowest common denominator. There is no two ways about. But the uniqueness of the jedi character will drown in the multitudes of them after a while. Will that feeling of "wow a lightsaber" last?

Because, again, when Star Wars first came out, no one wanted to be a Jedi or Darth Vader or Chewbaca or Stormtroopers but everyone was talking about Uncle Owen or (again) the Bartender or a Cantina Drunk.

12. PvP. A bit unclear. Except it to be children friendly. But since it is factional there must be some. A cross between WoW and WAR is not unheard of. Can anyone honestly expect something more hardcore with the direction this game is taking?

I don't believe it will be hardcore nor have they indicated that that was a direction they wanted to go.

13. Graphics. Most likely next-gen graphics. Some improvements on existing ways of doing it. Maybe similar to AoC quality.

It's not quite my favorite art style but "it is what it is".

 

Conclusion:

This game is the NGE that LA always wanted. It will be linear, story-driven, have few hours of longevity, cater to the light-saber crowds, kids -

I don't recall Star Wars, in any of the movies, focusing on the stories of field hands, tradesmen, or mechanics or street vendors.

Perhaps cosmic wars - episode 1 - The Gathering Shadow is what you are looking for

http://www.videosift.com/video/Cosmic-Wars-Episode-I-The-Gathering-Shadow

 

Originally posted by Joppari

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Joppari

I don't think that the title of this thread does the post justice.

 

The OP makes some fairly rational assumptions based upon what is currently known about the game and taking into account that it's not all that much, he may well be fairly close to the mark.

 

I'm looking forward to this game and Bioware have always made great RPGs, but making a great MMORPG that allows it's players to create something of an alternate life within a persistant virtual world and making a great RPG that lots of people play at the same time are two different things.

 

I'm thinking that ToR is going to be the second of those two things.

My opinion is that TOR will be more likely to be 'Guildwars in the Star Wars world', some of this is accurate with the OP's findings. However, the most pressing flaw or 'failure' in the OP's post is that most people do not want a pre-cu SWG clone, or any other type of sandbox game.

 

I will wait, and see what the game is like. If its Guildwars in space but well made, I will play it, if its a sandbox game(not likely) and well made, I will play it.

 

The fact is, it is way too early to satrt making ill-founded conclusions and proclaiming doom for a game that is nowhere near release.

Hmm, you must have been one of the poor saps much like myself that was not gifted with a crystal ball at birth and has to rely on common sense . . .

 

Yes, it seems we are a minority on this site.

 

Still deciding whether I'm included in that or the target of that one...

Nah, I was just too lazy to clip your portion of the quote.  It was more directed to those that "know everything" about this game.

So 100 hours of game play in an MMORPG?  LOL!  I hope that they are planning on adding content on a regular basis.    Power gamers will eat that 100 hrs up in 100hrs straight!  

Since we know that Bioware has all ready stated they are going to guide our game play of their game by how it is played then that seems to imply heavily linear game play.    That means WoW style. 

What else will be available to keep us playing once we've played the 100hrs of game play?  What is the end game of SW:ToR?

Originally posted by Teala

So 100 hours of game play in an MMORPG?  LOL!  I hope that they are planning on adding content on a regular basis.    Power gamers will eat that 100 hrs up in 100hrs straight!  

Since we know that Bioware has all ready stated they are going to guide our game play of their game by how it is played then that seems to imply heavily linear game play.    That means WoW style. 

What else will be available to keep us playing once we've played the 100hrs of game play?  What is the end game of SW:ToR?

NOBODY FKING KNOWS!!!11

And where did you get the 100 hours from?

no need for the anger issues, go reboot in the bathroom...

Originally posted by Teala

So 100 hours of game play in an MMORPG?  LOL!  I hope that they are planning on adding content on a regular basis.    Power gamers will eat that 100 hrs up in 100hrs straight!  

Since we know that Bioware has all ready stated they are going to guide our game play of their game by how it is played then that seems to imply heavily linear game play.    That means WoW style. 

What else will be available to keep us playing once we've played the 100hrs of game play?  What is the end game of SW:ToR?

Le sigh . . .

Originally posted by Teala

So 100 hours of game play in an MMORPG?  LOL!  I hope that they are planning on adding content on a regular basis.    Power gamers will eat that 100 hrs up in 100hrs straight!  

Since we know that Bioware has all ready stated they are going to guide our game play of their game by how it is played then that seems to imply heavily linear game play.    That means WoW style. 

What else will be available to keep us playing once we've played the 100hrs of game play?  What is the end game of SW:ToR?

Maybe none. I think they will make the road to get there so interesting that you want to try it with another class right away, and with another after that, and another, and another ... at least, I think that is what they aim for. So quite a shift in what we are used to (games which only take off at max level I mean of course).

Originally posted by Draccan

 

New trailer looked sweet and awesome. But what is a cinematics trailer for a game? Nothing. Once you play the game it won't matter. Cinematics trailers are just fun. And this one rivalled some of the best cinematics I have seen.

 

But truth is that Bioware is still keeping major parts of what this game is about under wraps. But for sure some things can be concluded now:

1. Classes. Players will be stuck in one class.
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes
Seems to be eight classes. Jedi: Trooper, Jedi, Smuggler | Sith: Sith, Bounty Hunter

SWG lets you change classes

2. Factions. Players will be stuck in a faction - nothings points to mobility in allegiance.
Treaty of Coruscant = no real pvp
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/allegiances

SWG lets you change factions

3. Space. Not going to be included. We would have known by now.
Some will add: SWG didn't have it at launch, but this isn't 2003. Market is now very over-saturated with mmos and will be even more in a few years. Companies like Funcom counts on selling just enough copies at launch to give them a surplus. They know their games don't have lasting potential. ToR will have even less longevity than AoC.

SWG has Space

4. Instances. Hard to say, but I wouldn't be surprised they go the way of AoC.

SWG is lightly instanced

5. Crafting. Bioware states time and time again that this game is about story and heroes. Crafting is not part of their thought-proces. It isn't that slick, so why include it. Crafting is about creating your OWN story. And Bioware's idea of story-telling is that THEY need to direct your story.

SWG has a massive crafting system

6. Non-combat classes. This game will center on heroes. Meaning, vanilla gameplay with limited options. Don't expect anything but minor non-combat skills.

SWG has non-combat professions

7.  Release date. Not going to be before 2011. These games always get postponed. Just wait and see. Could even be later.

SWG has been out out since 2003 so you can play it right now

8. Gameplay linear? Yes it will be. While technically possible to create great stories in a non-linear environment.

SWG...its always been linear and still is. SWG also has a basic "story teller system that allows for player made content.

9. Housing? Player Cities? Housing and player cities also goes against the grain of their story-driven mmo where players are heroes, not housebuilder or crafters.

SWG has arguably the best housing system on the market.

10. Combat system. Not much is known. But it will be smaller variety on the WoW/EQ formula. Sort of like other games like TCoS or AoC tries to change the formula. Don't expect something truly different, but something towards those lines. Maybe with a few twitch elements here and there.

SWG...well....never mind lol...you got me there

11. Jedis. This time period is chosen to appeal to all the kids who wants to have a light-saber swining jedi (or sith). It is the lowest common denominator. There is no two ways about. But the uniqueness of the jedi character will drown in the multitudes of them after a while. Will that feeling of "wow a lightsaber" last?

Will that funny tingle in my tummy that makes me giggle like a school girl go away after awhile? Who knows and WTF cares?

12. PvP. A bit unclear. Except it to be children friendly. But since it is factional there must be some. A cross between WoW and WAR is not unheard of. Can anyone honestly expect something more hardcore with the direction this game is taking?

SWG has clear PvP, rebs kill Imps and vice versa and is as opened or restrained as you want it to be.

13. Graphics. Most likely next-gen graphics. Some improvements on existing ways of doing it. Maybe similar to AoC quality.

...and...

 

Conclusion:

This game is the NGE that LA always wanted. It will be linear, story-driven, have few hours of longevity, cater to the light-saber crowds, kids - tie in with graphical style of the Clone Wars, little crafting, not hardcore pvp, not many options, but lots of hand-holding and lead you through the maze..

Some might now jump in and say that it is guess-work, that we don't know all the facts; that maybe there will be deep crafting, hardcore pvp, housing, space flight etc. But these comments are ignorant and nothing to do with the truth. Truth is that the path of TOR is already set and it is set up for eye candy and a hollow gameplay. Not a real MMO as it won't be that massive or free.

Games make and break at launch now. There is no time to make space six to twelve months after (and what good did it really do SWG in the long run). There is no time to make that expansion that fixes all the problems (WAR + AoC). Either you make it or you will suffer a slow, suffocating death.

Bioware has taken the easy route of doing everything as simple and dumped-down as possible. It won't be hardcore pvp, it won't be massive diverse game with many play-options like crafting and non-combat professions.

What game companies does not understand is that the whole foundation of mmos is built around the principle that players should have the option of doing what THEY want in the game. Interact in many ways and not just kill-botting each other or npcs over and over. The combat oriented gamer should want the crafters and non-combatees to give flair and atmosphere to their game - to be able to interact with when needing an armour or a new weapon. This is what breathes life into the genre.

What Bioware is doing is to put one more nail in the mmo genre coffin. This game might get close to a million boxes sold or even 1.5 - but in the end it will be like many other mmos out there with empty, EMPTY servers after six months. People will buy it for the name, Star Wars, but leave when they see there is no freedom in this game. For Bioware it will mean not only breaking even, but also making a big chunk of cash - but for the players - the gaming community - it is just one more way to kill PC gaming..

 

Draccan

 Conclusion summery

It's not going to be SW the way I want it to be just like SWG isn't SW the way I want it to be.

 

 

 Quit your yammering, it's amazing anyone is even going to bother with this dead in the water IP....again

 Meh, I'll just hack at Sith for 100 hours, I don't mind. Screw the story.

Or maybe I shall be a Sith cutting Jedi's in two. If they don't slice me up first.

SWG was a failure of an MMO before NGE. I'm glad with Bioware's approach. Maybe we'll finally have a good Star Wars MMO to play.

Wow, just wow... honestly. 

We know the game isn't WoW.  This may cause Blizz fanboi's to unite and flame. 

We know the game isn't another 'fantasy'/orc's/troll's/elves etc.,.. game.   This may cause the lovers of that particular genre to rise up and freak out.  work work.

We know the game will be based in the Star Wars Universe.   This may cause people who love/hated the movies, books, and other subject data to get bent out of shape also.

The game won't be Star Wars Galaxies.  Fans of SWG, haters of SWG, CU/NGE opinion holders, and others may or may not get what they've wanted in SWG from SW:TOR... don't hold Bioware to the fires of the Hell that SOE created. 

...

I think I'll let SW:TOR become a 'finished and launched' product before I start calling it 'fail' in any way, shape, or form... and that's if and ONLY IF the game does turn out to suck.  But try it first and then pass judgement.

The only way I would probably use the failure label on this game prior to launch would be if SOE were to get their hands on it somehow.   Outside of that, I'm going to hide and watch and see what shakes out.

And yes, the trailer did indeed kick ass.

Why the hell won't these vets go play the emu they say is so awesome? You got your game back, go play it.

Originally posted by Draccan

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by Draccan

 

Conclusion:

This game is the NGE that LA always wanted. It will be linear, story-driven, have few hours of longevity, cater to the light-saber crowds, kids - tie in with graphical style of the Clone Wars, little crafting, not hardcore pvp, not many options, but lots of hand-holding and lead you through the maze..

 

 

You may be right, but that hardly makes it 'epic FAIL,' or whatever other annoying leet expression takes over the cliche of the month mantle. 

The reality is that what you described is what the majority of gamers want, and what 11 million + are paying Blizzard good money for as we speak.  Since 'epic fail' is nothing but a meaningless generality, I assume you meant as it relates to your personal gaming enjoyment.  I can certainly guarantee you that TOR will be anything but an 'epic fail' financially, which is what matters matters at the end of the day.

Carry on though, I'm sure somewhere some dev team is itching to hear your views on successful game design.

 

If this is what all gamers want, why are all subsequent mmo games made since WoW in trouble (with LotRO as a possible exception)? Why are half the threads in this forum about Darkfall, even though it is a poorly designed game.. imagine that it had been made properly?

 

I said the majority of gamers, not all.  Clearly you don't want it, nor do a lot of the other regulars on this site.  That said, the people posting on this site and others like it are nowhere near the average gamer (most of whom don't go to forums at all, but rather play whatever game they like). 

Bioware (and other AAA gaming companies) are courting the millions of gamers that WoW and the Wii have recently won over to the hobby.  Its purely a financial decision, and though I share your nostalgia for SWG and other sandbox games, I believe you're only setting yourself up for disappointment and bitterness if you assume your minority preferences will be catered to in a title like TOR.

At the end of the day, I'm simply tired of hearing people throw the word 'fail' around when they have no bloody idea what it means.  Only the developers and investors are privvy to what constitutes 'failure' for TOR.  You don't like it, fine, I may not either, but that hardly makes it a failure. 

Find something else you enjoy and move on.  Life's too short.