Originally posted by seabeast

lol how true as per the article. I would be even more interested in learning "who the hell thought up some of these terms?"

Yeah I'd like to see that too, and the history of MMO acronyms, where they started. Each acronym with their respectful game. Because I know a lot started in games even before UO, some in UO, but some acronyms don't work in UO and I'd like to know all that.

Originally posted by surfsk8snow

So true! Why don't you take your fanboi self back to your little unpolished epic-fail WoW-Clone while I play my innovative 1337 WoW-killer with all my hardcore guildies. Sandbox FTW!!!

 

Can I be in teh clubz now?

HAHAHAHAHA... ahhh I love people like you. So funny.

LMFAO! This post went south of heaven fast didnt it? Geesh, for those who dont know...ITS JUST A GAME!! A GAME!! ITS NOT REAL!! ITS A GAME!!! Lol, morons, I swear...

STRONGLY disagree with #2.  A game with quests and levels IS a Themepark game.  A quest IS a "ride" you jump on, with a developer built perrogative that you must complete in order to recieve a reward of some sort.  Similarly, a LEVEL based game is exactly the same thing, Themepark style gameplay.

I agree that Sandbox gets thrown around a lot, in my opinion.  In fact, terms seem to constantly get redefined in this industry by people like you. 

In my opinion, Ultima Online pre-trammel was the ONLY definition of an "MMORPG" back in the day of 1997 and games like Diablo and then Everquest that came soon after, I considered them "MMOs".  Then somehow games like Everquest and WoW began being defined as "MMORPGs".  It's at this time that I began making references to Ultima Online pre-trammel(1997-1999) as a sandbox because it was so drastically different than the rest.

All of a sudden EVE, SWG and console games like Fallout 3 came out and started referring to themselves as a "sandbox". 

Now we have to redefine what Ultima Online pre-trammel was again and I refer to it today as a "MMOWS (RPG)" Massive Multiplayer Online World Simulator (Role Playing Game)".

The fact is that UO pre-T simply cannot be compared to any other game that has come after it.  If a game does not have at least ALL these following elements it simply can't be compared:

• Open NON-Instanced world, no loading screens whatsoever, no "private quests" where others can't find you.
• NON-Instanced player housing, again NO loading screens ANYWHERE, houses should have the ability to be made public or private.
• Open PvP with REAL consequences.  Meaning you have the option of killing an innocent player if you want, but you will be held accountable just like in real life. The Red/Blue/Gray flagging system worked great in UO pre-trammel and no other game has truly perfected it or made it better since then.  Only 1 game has tried it in a similar fashio in 10 years and that's Darkfall, but DF's alliance system fails and so does Friendly Fire+FPS.  It fails for casual PvE groupers and people who get sploited by other random pew pew groups.  Mortal Online plans to follow Darkfall's footsteps here unfortunately and it too will fail.  This is one element that pushes these games to the far ultra hardcore base and everyone else gets alienated.  Good luck to both dev teams trying to compete for that small share of people.
• Open loot, but taking from an innocent corpse can flag you.
• SKILL based progression as opposed to level based.  In real life there are no "levels".  Your experience in a true MMOWS should not matter based on how much XP or mobs/bosses you've farmed.  It should be measured by how long you have practiced on a certain craft, spell school, weapon or other skill.  And just like in real life, you may forget things so your skill may decrease if you do not practice it.  Many people constantly confuse reference to a "skill based game" with meaning how fast you can twitch your mouse or how good your aimbot is.  No, that's not the case. A game with a level based system simply cannot be refered to an MMOWS or even a Sandbox game for that matter. Floating level numbers above your head is pure BS, it's an old and dated way of measuring things and should be left for the Themepark genre and people that don't have time to dedicate to things.  One should not be able to tell another person's skill by looking at a floating number above their head and this is the only way that it can work in a non-instanced open pvp world or noobs will constantly get slaughtered.
• And finally, a true MMOWS is one where you enter the world with a feeling that there is endless possibilities and adventure. You should not have a "crosshair" in front of your face 24/7 being reminded that this is a "PvP game".  There is absolutely no need for quests or ANYTHING telling you "what to do".  The beauty of UO pre-trammel and the thing that attracted so many different people to it was that it was a "neutral setting", a true sandbox MMOWS where you log in and pretty much live a virtual life.  You build a house if you want, if someone tries to steal from you, you kill them, you should be able to take over/control towns/cities or build them from the ground up, there sould be endless crafting opportunities and there should be no need to EVER pick up a weapon to "have fun" in an MMOWS if you don't want to.  In a true MMOWS there will be TONS of FLUFF because without fluff, all you are left with is a cut and dry "pew pew game" like Darkfall where the only goal is to be a zombie footsoldier for some large power hungry guild wanting to control every city.

These are the core elements that a sandbox MMOWS game must have, it's the solid foundation to start from.  Now, a game surely could come in and add many more elements on top of this.  But if it's missing one of these above, you just cannot call it an MMOWS.  There will have to be another name for it, perhaps MMOFPS(like Darkfall).  Mortal Online is the only game that gives me hope that this dream will actually happen(since they tout real player housing unlike Darkfall), but a true MMOWS needs to drop the FPS+Friendly fire/Crosshair in your face 24/7 bs.  I would hope that a company out there is brave enough to make a truly beautiful MMOWS, in 10 years we've really only had 1 and that was Ultima Online pre-trammel which died a decade ago.  People are sick and tired of the Themepark games and 99.95% of MMORPGs out there are Themeparks.  ENOUGH!!!!!

Half of these stupid saying come from WoW players, the other half came from people who hate WoW. Either way, it just shows that WoW is fackin annoying.

If quests make a world a themepark game, then heck, the real wold is a themepark and then by jove, any good game should have quests build into it.

EQ and WoW are RPGS because the role (iow character) counts more than the player. (As compared to FPS where the player counts more than the role). That being said, there are a couple definitions of RP, so saying one is a RPG and one isn't should be prefaced with a definition.

Please don't confuse skills with level. They are apples and oranges. Skills equate to classes. Both skill based games and class based games use level.  The difference enters when skills (which are actually micro-classes) are then adjusted to improve quicker and thus its easier to level a skill then it is to level a class.
 

 On Wow clone:

The good old  ''every RPG uses quests(and interface and so on)'' ignorance remark.

Which is true ofc, except that WoW and Warhammer, and AoC, and Tabula Rasa (rip), and hellgate, and Lotro and many others don't just "have quests'' in the generic way that's hinted in the article in such a goofy way, but they SPECIFICALLY have the ones of WoW... in every possible aspect except what's actually said in the text.

Point is, i already DID play WoW and sort of enjoyed the levelling system, for more than a year(so it's not even like in SP RPG's where you play for only 1/2 weeks so you can't get SICK OF IT), now an even SLIGHTLY but ACTUALLY fresh levelling system would be fantastic.

What the article guy failed to realize is this difference. Every rpg has quests, but:

-i.e Baldur's gate quest: no goddamn exclamation mark (incredible uh?); no kill collecting counter(displayed as usual to the right center of the usual screen); the structure is basically to reach a place and the path is filled with encounters and difficulties you just can't skip.

-Fallout quest: get in a town, talk to a person at the entrance who explains the situation, the factions at war, the buildings, the shops, everything. The town is your arena of situations, you got lots of choices to make and puzzles to solve. IT's ONE big quest, taking place ONLY inside the town(unlike the wow clones, usually taking you miles away just for time-sink sake).

-WoW quest: Find a guy with some kind of exclamation mark icon, right-click him, rectangular window opens in the precise left upper side co-ordinates of the screen, skip thru about 10 to 14 lines of useless text, skip also thru the fast description for dummies(because reading is SO, like, uncool, dude!), press accept button to the left of the decline one, see the rewards given or the choosable ones, start travelling to the spot, then kill the needed amount of mob or collect the testicles dropped therein, go back to the QG who now comes with a differently coloured exclamation mark, skip thru the "hey you made it'' useless text, grab reward, put it on, sport it around for loosers to see, rinse and repeat.

-WAR quest: same as above.

-Tabula Rasa quest: same as above.

-Age of Conan quest: same as above.

-Pirates of the caribbean quest: same as above.

-Hellgate quest: same as above.

-every other KOREAN mmo quest: same as bove.

It's interesting to notice, tho, that there are indeed a few changes. Back in WoW there was no such a thing as a marker on the map guiding you to the quest spot, a big spot blinking in your face the message "you're an idiot, you're an idiot, you're an idiot'' because you can't even take a few minutes to REASON out the right place to go, you need the damn marker on the map... and today's players are happy to be dumb and play their games, and PAY for them, for god sake, they actually pay for being considered like idiots who can't even find the place to go for a quest, and a quest that works EXACTLY like those in the previous games.

This is easily explained: WoW had success because it managed to eliminate part of the hardmanships of levelling in mmo's, which sometimes felt like an insurmountable task, taking months. So since WoW BABYSITS you thru the levelling process, every other MMO after that had the goal of dumbing things further down, in the hope of another success.

MMO's is an industry that bases its success on how much dumber can the mass of players get... the dumber your game is, the more people you might attract.

MMO's is an industry that bases its success on how much dumber can the mass of players get... the dumber your game is, the more people you might attract.

Every industry is like that...

Wow clone is used before people even play the game. As soon as they hear it has levels and classes.

Its used on games that came before Wow. Its used on games with quests tat don't follow your formula. (Like Eve).

Its sort of entered parlance as a generic derogatory term. Thus its misuse and overuse.

Now, LOTRO has quests that fit into your Wow quest mold, but it plays different (at least for me). So blaming it on the quest structure doesn't really hold water.
 

Originally posted by rscott6666

MMO's is an industry that bases its success on how much dumber can the mass of players get... the dumber your game is, the more people you might attract.

 

Every industry is like that...

 

Wow clone is used before people even play the game. As soon as they hear it has levels and classes.

Its used on games that came before Wow. Its used on games with quests tat don't follow your formula. (Like Eve).

Its sort of entered parlance as a generic derogatory term. Thus its misuse and overuse.

Now, LOTRO has quests that fit into your Wow quest mold, but it plays different (at least for me). So blaming it on the quest structure doesn't really hold water.
 

Doesn't make sense, Quentin Tarantino doesn't direct movies for everyone, counting on dumbness to make the most money, He already knows many will hate them.

I never heard the term wow clone used for every MMO, just for the more evident ones. And it's weird anyway cause im pretty sure when i said it the first time i  had made it up... could i be the unaware inventor? 

Sure it may have been used in the wrong way, but the article doesn't say that, the article says it's ALWAYS used in the wrong way because there are NO wow clones.... which is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Gylfi

Originally posted by rscott6666

MMO's is an industry that bases its success on how much dumber can the mass of players get... the dumber your game is, the more people you might attract.

 

Every industry is like that...

 

Wow clone is used before people even play the game. As soon as they hear it has levels and classes.

Its used on games that came before Wow. Its used on games with quests tat don't follow your formula. (Like Eve).

Its sort of entered parlance as a generic derogatory term. Thus its misuse and overuse.

Now, LOTRO has quests that fit into your Wow quest mold, but it plays different (at least for me). So blaming it on the quest structure doesn't really hold water.
 

Doesn't make sense, Quentin Tarantino doesn't direct movies for everyone, counting on dumbness to make the most money, He already knows many will hate them.

I never heard the term wow clone used for every MMO, just for the more evident ones. And it's weird anyway cause im pretty sure when i said it the first time i  had made it up... could i be the unaware inventor? 

Sure it may have been used in the wrong way, but the article doesn't say that, the article says it's ALWAYS used in the wrong way because there are NO wow clones.... which is ridiculous.

No, it doesn't. say that.

What do i know though? I only wrote it.

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by zidane01970

I don't agree with this, I use "WoW Clone" to describe these hundreds of mmos that use the same "Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat. That bores me to tears. WoW was the first one to notably do it, as it followed a lot of other generic systems too. "Generic RPG" systems, I personally like WoW, but I would love to see more real-time combat MMORPG. These Psuedo-turn based games so many companies seem to be making are getting extremely old to me.

 

That's the point of the entry. WoW was FAR from the first to do it.

 

Wasn't Everquest first? Hmm, certainly not Ultima. But I have the feeing there was something similar before Everquest and Asheron's Call...

Yup

Multiplayer examples:

   Meridian 59

   Any/all of the AOL Neverwinter Nights sagas

   Insert any MUD, MUX or MOO as well here

Single Player examples:

   Insert any Wizardry style single player RPG

   Insert Bards Tale style RPG

   Insert Ultima

   Insert SSI D&D games

   etc etc ad nausium, etc.

In short:  WOW was FAR from the first and won't be the last and people need to realise it.  Anytime I see someone write "WoW clone" I feel like the IQ of the world just went down a little.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Gylfi

Originally posted by rscott6666

MMO's is an industry that bases its success on how much dumber can the mass of players get... the dumber your game is, the more people you might attract.

 

Every industry is like that...

 

Wow clone is used before people even play the game. As soon as they hear it has levels and classes.

Its used on games that came before Wow. Its used on games with quests tat don't follow your formula. (Like Eve).

Its sort of entered parlance as a generic derogatory term. Thus its misuse and overuse.

Now, LOTRO has quests that fit into your Wow quest mold, but it plays different (at least for me). So blaming it on the quest structure doesn't really hold water.
 

Doesn't make sense, Quentin Tarantino doesn't direct movies for everyone, counting on dumbness to make the most money, He already knows many will hate them.

I never heard the term wow clone used for every MMO, just for the more evident ones. And it's weird anyway cause im pretty sure when i said it the first time i  had made it up... could i be the unaware inventor? 

Sure it may have been used in the wrong way, but the article doesn't say that, the article says it's ALWAYS used in the wrong way because there are NO wow clones.... which is ridiculous.

No, it doesn't. say that.

What do i know though? I only wrote it.

yup you said it. you ONLY wrote it. Now plz read it. :D

jk

You said that almost any MMO(after wow ofc) has been called a WoW clone. And it's naturally true since they all are, except now Darkfall, truly different from it, of UO old breed.

But most importantly You said that people call 'em clones not because they BELIEVE that those quests work EXACTLY like WoW, like i do, but you think people say that referring to the generic concept of ''having quests'' which is the same old wordplay i had to stomach a dozen times ever since... 

To be absolutely clear, this time and for all times, when we say ''this game is a wow clone because of the quests'', we're not referring to the generic gameplay element of a quest, but to the ACTUAL empirical way those specific quests are structured, which makes WAR quests a clone off WoW. The fact that you and all the persons i argued with in the last years about this(and they are SO damn many) don't even know quests aren't all the same, that you can't even single out the parts and bits that constitute a quest to discriminate the hundreds of ways these work from game to game(by stating that WoW quests come from RPG's you literally declared that WoW and, say, Planescape: Torment, quests are exactly the same, just quests), it's evident that you guys have no idea what you're talking about.

As for the problem of WHO DID IT FIRST, i'm finally able to solve this problem too, once and for goddamn all. EQ or DAOC might have had the same interface of WoW before WoW, and it even had the same old quest window, quest description, accept/decline buttons and rewards(DAOC had the quests, but they were way fewer, way harder to do, not funny at all)

But it's NEVER the real first ones who actually come up with something that get the merit of the invention, the merit ALWAYS goes to those who manage to do that thing well polished, perfected, those who make the thing so damn popular that everyone now starts reusing the same thing, even tho the actual invention wasn't his, HE's getting the merit, and it's right that he does so.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE VIKINGS WHO DISCOVERED AMERICA EVEN IF THEY DID, IT'S BLOODY COLUMBUS

I strongly dissagree that WoW Clone is a misused word. It is the devs that have "copied" so many WoW concepts in an attempt to get anywhere near the success that WoW is.

So the therm WoW clone is not misused but rather an accurate description of many MMORPGs these days. Unfourtantely I may add. However that does not make the therm misused, it is rather quite accurate.

For example, no one is using the word WoW clone for describing Mortal Online or Darkfail as those are very different from WoW. However games like WAR and Lotr are very similar to WoW as they are all linear, themepark MMORPGs that cater to the casual player. They have differences from each other and from WoW but their are fundamentally they all use the same base ingredients as WoW, this making them WoW clones. (and yes I know what a clone is but don't take the word literally, if so there is no such thing as a WoW clone because no MMORPG is a carbon copy of WoW as that would be illegal).

Originally posted by Yamota

 there is no such thing as a WoW clone because no MMORPG is a carbon copy of WoW as that would be illegal).

Hehe apparently  koreans don't think it is illegal. ;)

But admittedly i might be thinking too much about graphics.

Originally posted by Stradden

Doesn't make sense, Quentin Tarantino doesn't direct movies for everyone, counting on dumbness to make the most money, He already knows many will hate them.

I never heard the term wow clone used for every MMO, just for the more evident ones. And it's weird anyway cause im pretty sure when i said it the first time i  had made it up... could i be the unaware inventor? 

Sure it may have been used in the wrong way, but the article doesn't say that, the article says it's ALWAYS used in the wrong way because there are NO wow clones.... which is ridiculous.

No, it doesn't. say that.

What do i know though? I only wrote it.

It doesn't say that but it certainly implies that by having a top ten of most MISUSED words and have WoW clone as nr 1. That would strongly imply that in most cases it is misused.

I find that highly inaccurate since most MMORPGs, released these days, are actually WoW clones and hence the word is very correctly used.

I do have to defend WoW here a little, despite the fact that I can't stand it or other games like it.

In a way, I do agree with the "Wow Clone" thing.  WoW doesn't actually contain ANYTHING that didn't happen before it.

Several MMO's had levels, classes, instances, raids, pvp zones, etc. 

It IS true, however, that most MMO's since WOW have tried deliberately to clone it's particular spin on all those things.  Even an existing MMO's (SWG) was altered from a leveless, skill based, mostly sandbox form into one more resembling WoW, after it's success, and Smed even stated that "killing WoW" was a goal of it (said this in a Slashdot interview shortly after the NGE).

The problem though is that these would-be cloners and killers of WoW missed that which actually set WoW apart from all that has come before it and since it: Yep, the word "polish".  So far ONLY WoW has come out in a complete and polished form, with no missing core features or glaring bugs at launch.  While WoW isn't a particularly deep or innovative MMO, it has the virtue of working more or less flawlessly, not coming out 2/3rds done, expecting the subscriber base to pay subscription fees while they continued finishing the game.

In other words, it was the FIRST and so far ONLY MMO to release as an acual gold product, not as a "pay to test" "final beta" form.

This element, of course, is ignored by all the would be WoW clones and killers out there.  They continue to release partly unfinished games, which was the norm from the dawn of the industry until WoW and expect their customers to pay for the final stage of development.  Most MMO's released since WoW have failed as a result, MMO's released in the last 5 years seemingly have been cancelled much more often than older games.  The two MMO's released in the "Wow Clone" era that have had decent success, LOTRO and WAR also represent the most polished of their generation at release.

Remember when SWG launched, and was missing player cities, mounts, vehicles, and space combat, which were all things promised at launch?  Yet it still managed to pull 300K subs at it's peak.  That sort of launch today would get you 100K in your first month then maybe 30K and falling after that, and cancellation within a year or two.  Back then, though, we bought into the fantastic potential of it's sandbox and "make your own" profession skill system.  Sadly they added the missing stuff then ripped out it's soul later on.

WoW killer, WoW clone, damn this guy must be a WoW fanboy so let me do the WoW hating (this was a joke).

Nice article, the picture associations were pretty funny, plus this article has a lot of truth. I'd really enjoy another round of misused words in MMOs written by you.

Originally posted by mrw0lf

'tis a good list, think I would have had 'NextGen' in there. Every game I've played for the last 5 years has advertised itself as nextgen, but I'm fked if I can see how they're any different from the last.

LOL!!!

If we counted everything that was called nextgen, as such, what gen would be one 10,000,000,000?

Originally posted by Gylfi

Doesn't make sense, Quentin Tarantino doesn't direct movies for everyone, counting on dumbness to make the most money, He already knows many will hate them.

I never heard the term wow clone used for every MMO, just for the more evident ones. And it's weird anyway cause im pretty sure when i said it the first time i  had made it up... could i be the unaware inventor? 

Sure it may have been used in the wrong way, but the article doesn't say that, the article says it's ALWAYS used in the wrong way because there are NO wow clones.... which is ridiculous.

He certainly doesn't direct intellectual thinking movies that require a phd either.  The simple stuff, violence, nudity,action, gets the money.  Some high quality arty stuff that requires 2 brain cells doesn't make any money. Want to know how to fix GM?  Invent a car thats so dumbed down, so mindless and worry free that anyone with opposable thumbs could use it safely, from children to the oldest of senior citizens.  No license required.  Possible?  Probably not.  But it would be the best selling car around.

Granted the idea of a 'clone of wow' is not a bad idea.  We may actually see a direct knockoff of wow soon.  I remember thinking many PnP games were clones of AD&D.  However, the term itself IS widely misused.  I've often seen it used and then when asked to describe the so called clone, they instead describe those facets that make up  most any RPG.  Its like people don't realize that the features of WoW that make it what it is are common to 95% of RPGs.  I never have the heart to break it to them that perhaps they just don't like RPGs and should try a different genre of game.

That being said, merely listing classes/levels and even quests that ask for 5 pelts and using that to justify the cloneliness of a mmorpg is just assinine.

Your list sucks... and yes I am a "fanboi" of your list sucking... and yes I am a "hater" of your list. Your list is not "Innovative" enough and is a complete "failure". Your list reads like the editor put you in a "sandbox" or "theme park" and let you run wild with it. I was expecting a list of "real" MMO only words people miss use and got "vaporware". I guess your just not "hardcore" enough for MMORPG.com. So "polish" up your content and resubmit something good.

Originally posted by Yamota

I strongly dissagree that WoW Clone is a misused word. It is the devs that have "copied" so many WoW concepts in an attempt to get anywhere near the success that WoW is.

So the therm WoW clone is not misused but rather an accurate description of many MMORPGs these days. Unfourtantely I may add. However that does not make the therm misused, it is rather quite accurate.

For example, no one is using the word WoW clone for describing Mortal Online or Darkfail as those are very different from WoW. However games like WAR and Lotr are very similar to WoW as they are all linear, themepark MMORPGs that cater to the casual player. They have differences from each other and from WoW but their are fundamentally they all use the same base ingredients as WoW, this making them WoW clones. (and yes I know what a clone is but don't take the word literally, if so there is no such thing as a WoW clone because no MMORPG is a carbon copy of WoW as that would be illegal).

WOW clone is a highly mis used word ,because there is NEVER any truth to it.WOW "IS "a EQ clone,so everything thereafter should be referred to as an EQ clone NOT a WOW clone.Even to this day WOW continues to add EQ content,but giving it a different name for obvious reasons,too easy a lawsuit otherwise.I cannot think of one thing WOW innovated to call its own,and therefore using the word CLONE,on games that have been developed afterwards.

ROM could be considered a slight FFXI clone,but barely.VG is also a EQ clone but did add a touch of innovation,to give itself an identity.

DID you know WOW still

uses the ghost shard retrieval upon death,lmao,that is so old EQ, it is ridiculous.I have played TONS of games that did not copy that idea,as a matter of fact MOST do not use it.Most games do NOT use tiered spells,so really WOW is pretty much the ONLY EQ clone all other games try to do things a tad different.This "IS"the sad reality,that so many hold WOW in high reguards,yet shun the father, an identical game[better looking] in EQ2.

The "Ten Most Misused Words in MMO's." was a great article and there were many good point's.  I enjoyed it, my fav part was the pic's on the side's with the little quote's next to it.  Made the article have some great humor!

Originally posted by rscott6666

Originally posted by Gylfi

Doesn't make sense, Quentin Tarantino doesn't direct movies for everyone, counting on dumbness to make the most money, He already knows many will hate them.

I never heard the term wow clone used for every MMO, just for the more evident ones. And it's weird anyway cause im pretty sure when i said it the first time i  had made it up... could i be the unaware inventor? 

Sure it may have been used in the wrong way, but the article doesn't say that, the article says it's ALWAYS used in the wrong way because there are NO wow clones.... which is ridiculous.

He certainly doesn't direct intellectual thinking movies that require a phd either.  The simple stuff, violence, nudity,action, gets the money.  Some high quality arty stuff that requires 2 brain cells doesn't make any money. Want to know how to fix GM?  Invent a car thats so dumbed down, so mindless and worry free that anyone with opposable thumbs could use it safely, from children to the oldest of senior citizens.  No license required.  Possible?  Probably not.  But it would be the best selling car around.

Granted the idea of a 'clone of wow' is not a bad idea.  We may actually see a direct knockoff of wow soon.  I remember thinking many PnP games were clones of AD&D.  However, the term itself IS widely misused.  I've often seen it used and then when asked to describe the so called clone, they instead describe those facets that make up  most any RPG.  Its like people don't realize that the features of WoW that make it what it is are common to 95% of RPGs.  I never have the heart to break it to them that perhaps they just don't like RPGs and should try a different genre of game.

That being said, merely listing classes/levels and even quests that ask for 5 pelts and using that to justify the cloneliness of a mmorpg is just assinine.

Please read the post after. You too mistake generic elements from unique elements.

The features that make WoW are generically all the elements of RPG's, but the SPECIFIC way each is hacked is of ITS OWN making, and that's what every other game after WoW cloned, not the generic element of "a quest''

 If you can't see the difference between the typical WoW quest and a quest in Vampire Bloodlines, it's your bad.

I did read your specifics. Not too many, icons over head, rectangular window, text, yes/no, changed icon. Other than the icon over the head, all of the facets were done and done well by earlier games. If anything, wow  was the clone. The big complaint about WoW when it came out was that it didn't bring anything new to the table, everything else was copied from earlier games. Their only innovation as far as i can see was that icon. It gets credit for polishing the genre, thats about it.

As to the argument that its whoever perfected the feature gets the credit, no, its usually whoever popularizes it gets the credit, its never really perfected. So EQ/DAOC should get credit, not WOW.

It did invent and popularize that icon. If you want WOW clone to mean 'floating  icon over the head', okay. Rather meaningless if you ask me. I guess i'll call everything that uses a rectangular window a DAOC clone.
 

Originally posted by Wizardry

WOW clone is a highly mis used word ,because there is NEVER any truth to it.WOW "IS "a EQ clone,so everything thereafter should be referred to as an EQ clone NOT a WOW clone.Even to this day WOW continues to add EQ content,but giving it a different name for obvious reasons,too easy a lawsuit otherwise.I cannot think of one thing WOW innovated to call its own,and therefore using the word CLONE,on games that have been developed afterwards.

ROM could be considered a slight FFXI clone,but barely.VG is also a EQ clone but did add a touch of innovation,to give itself an identity.

DID you know WOW still

uses the ghost shard retrieval upon death,lmao,that is so old EQ, it is ridiculous.I have played TONS of games that did not copy that idea,as a matter of fact MOST do not use it.Most games do NOT use tiered spells,so really WOW is pretty much the ONLY EQ clone all other games try to do things a tad different.This "IS"the sad reality,that so many hold WOW in high reguards,yet shun the father, an identical game[better looking] in EQ2.

 

Having played both EQ and WoW for 6 months each I can't disagree more that WoW is NOT a EQ-clone. WoW is casual friendly and EQ is anti-casual friendly as it had long downtimes in combat (something that is unheard of now post WoW). Also EQ had huge zones and cities where you could easily get lost where as in WoW everything was pointed out to you, either on the map or on the screen. Furthermore WoW had instancing which changed ALOT on how things worked and was also very solo friendly, where as EQ more or less required you to be in a group and the death penalty was high, by todays standards.

So where as WoW did copy some of the basica elements of EQ, like linear, class based leveling system, they were VERY different. What made WoW so special, and probably so popular, is that it was extremely casual friendly. An 8 year old could do most of the content in the game and all it required was some time, and not much at that since WoW had an extremely fast leveling curve for that time.

Finally WoW topped it of by having, arguably, one of the most proffessional PC gaming development companies behind it. Blizzard is infamous for creating solid and stable games that cater to the masses. And that was probably the main reason why EQ 2 didn't take of, the system reqs was steep high and the game was not very stable when released, on most peoples systems, where as WoW was.

So I don't think you are giving Blizzard credit enough. They certainly did not make a EQ clone, they took EQ and transformed it, simplified it and made it cater to the masses. And ever since WoWs huge success now every company is looking at WoW and trying to copy the casual friendly elements that they perfected, not realising that a copy of a game will not be a success unless it has something truly innovative that the copy does not have and none of the many WoW clones released, Lotr, WAR, AoC, have any of that.

However if you want a EQ clone then DAoC is that, it is basically a EQ light version with RvR introduced (the innovative thing that made the game a success, even though the game was essentially a EQ clone). WoW was certainly not.