Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by bustaj

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by bustaj

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by farore

I didnt enjoy the game and i never bashed it, but i find it very funny that people can be so blind to say its the greatest game they have played, and i think that is what starts allt he hate posts

 

But what if it IS the greatest game they've ever played?  What if the features that made it into the game are exactly the things that they are looking for.  Can't they be allowed that?  Why the need to tear them down? 

So not agreeing with them is tearing them down? I agree that if it's truly the best game to that person then they should have the right to express why they think so. At the same time though people that totally hate all facets of the game should have the right to voice their opinion as well.  If you you want to strip the haters right away then you have to give up yours as well.

 

My objection was with "I find it very funny that people can be so blind to say its the greatest game they have played".

That's not an opinion, or a critique of the game.  That's a personal attack against the person for their opinion.  There's a big difference.  Hate the game all you want, but there's no reason to hate others who don't agree with you.

Fair enough.

Personal attacks are never warranted.  All I was getting at is that most of these threads that end in flame wars start out because 2 people have clashing opinions and then it escalates from there because both sides want to prove the other wrong.  I assumed ( I need to stop doing that) that you wanted the haters to be quiet and leave the forum to the fans.  That sparked me to type what I typed.

Lastly I really don't hate the game.  I want it to get better because we need more games with the same ideas that Aventurine pitched to all of us.  I just think some things about this game could be better implemented and better managed that's all.  That does not mean that I am hating like Mr.Blood said earlier in the thread it just means I do not agree.

Take it as you will I suppose...

 

I'm all for differing opinions (As you can see, I don't agree with anyone).  I think it's great that people hate the game, and want to tell us why they hate it.  I just don't want them to expect me to hate it just becaue they do.

Constructive dialogue will go a lot further than hate filled rants.

You just did it again.

Why does criticism = Hate filled rants?

   There have been lots of good criticism, but its always boiled down (by the fans) to "Hate" and "LOLCAREBEARNOOB" even if you are talking about something as non opinionated as "lag" or the UI or the illogical rule sets that have a precedence of not working, by the very games they are attempting to emulate.

  Its the fans, and the irrational, and childish behavior that creates all this. Even Taco does it, so i guess it should be expected, as its the culture he created around the game, using 8 years of "elite" and exclusionary wordings.

  How can we have constructive dialog, when even someone that claims to be as educated as yourself (going by the fact you have offered three people lessons on various topics) can not separate observations, and criticisms, from baseline bashing?

You take it to heart more than anyone else in this thread.

You're right, nobody has a sense of social responsibility to point out unethical practices and false advertising.

(Actually, I don't, I just enjoy debate, and MMO forums are the easiest way to get it. Sometimes I'd rather write a scathing criticism than a short story. Sue me.)

---

Originally posted by madeux

I'm all for differing opinions (As you can see, I don't agree with anyone).  I think it's great that people hate the game, and want to tell us why they hate it.  I just don't want them to expect me to hate it just becaue they do.
Constructive dialogue will go a lot further than hate filled rants.

---

We are in total agreement when it comes to this statement .

So if I enjoy bashing the game I should go do that instead?

K.
 

Hmmmmm ....... interesting thread we have here.  I was going to try and come up with something witty so as to add to the conversation but fell short.  Instead, perhaps some music ....... yes, a thread like this could always do with some tunes.

<LINK>

I hope in some way this adds to the discussion and maybe even explains some things ........

~Hairysun~

Originally posted by Hairysun

Hmmmmm ....... interesting thread we have here.  I was going to try and come up with something witty so as to add to the conversation but fell short.  Instead, perhaps some music ....... yes, a thread like this could always do with some tunes.

 

<LINK>

 

I hope in some way this adds to the discussion and maybe even explains some things ........

 

~Hairysun~

 

 

Hmmm, interesting song.  Pertaining to this thread, this song can be interpreted 2 different ways in my opinion.

One way can be seen as people following and condemning everything a certain type of person thinks and acts.  Obviously this parallels the childish antics both sides pull on each other all the time in the Darkfall forums.

The other way  tells the listener to be "proud" and be oneself no matter what anyone says.  In this light you are encouraging everyone to embrace their opinions no matter what the haters from both sides say.

So my question is obvious right?

Are you flaming the haters of this thread in effect becoming what you hate but on the other side of the fence or are you telling everyone to embrace their opinion no matter what anyone says?

I would think/hope that it is the latter but you are the only one that truly knows.

Originally posted by bustaj

Originally posted by Hairysun

Hmmmmm ....... interesting thread we have here.  I was going to try and come up with something witty so as to add to the conversation but fell short.  Instead, perhaps some music ....... yes, a thread like this could always do with some tunes.

 

<LINK>

 

I hope in some way this adds to the discussion and maybe even explains some things ........

 

~Hairysun~

 

 

Hmmm, interesting song.  Pertaining to this thread, this song can be interpreted 2 different ways in my opinion.

One way can be seen as people following and condemning everything a certain type of person thinks and acts.  Obviously this parallels the childish antics both sides pull on each other all the time in the Darkfall forums.

The other way  tells the listener to be "proud" and be oneself no matter what anyone says.  In this light you are encouraging everyone to embrace their opinions no matter what the haters from both sides say.

So my question is obvious right?

Are you flaming the haters of this thread in effect becoming what you hate but on the other side of the fence or are you telling everyone to embrace their opinion no matter what anyone says?

I would think/hope that it is the latter but you are the only one that truly knows.

: )

~Hairysun~

short answer to OP "Yes"

Do people that dislike DF get some theraputic satisfaction from bashing it?

Yes

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I would like to know when any criticism became hateing. Who is the ignorant one in this situation?

 

Granted, there are tons that simply "hate", but really any critisism, oh, excuse me, its really "differing point of view than a fan" seems to equial trolling/hater.

even if you are talking about how clunky the UI is, somthing that isn't opinion. Its an observation.

 

There's a clear difference between critisism and bashing.  If you can't/won't see that for yourself, then there's nothing we can do for you.

That's exactly the problem. The rabid fans of DF consistently fail to see the distinction and label any criticism at all to be "hating" and "trolling".
 

Originally posted by Xemous

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I would like to know when any criticism became hateing. Who is the ignorant one in this situation?

 

Granted, there are tons that simply "hate", but really any critisism, oh, excuse me, its really "differing point of view than a fan" seems to equial trolling/hater.

even if you are talking about how clunky the UI is, somthing that isn't opinion. Its an observation.

 

Critics dont rant negativly 100 times over on the same thing.  They are called trolls/haters.

Not quite so cut and dry, I'm afraid.

When it's posting something 100 times and it's in response to misinformation or spin being spewed out by zealous fans, then it's giving the opposing point-of-view and/or putting things in proper perspective.

For example...
If fans state 100 times that Tasos never lied, then there will be 100 responses pointing out that he did.

 

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I would like to know when any criticism became hateing. Who is the ignorant one in this situation?

 

Granted, there are tons that simply "hate", but really any critisism, oh, excuse me, its really "differing point of view than a fan" seems to equial trolling/hater.

even if you are talking about how clunky the UI is, somthing that isn't opinion. Its an observation.

Writing a review or disagreeing with someone elses opinion= criticism

Spending months bashing the game and bashing the people liking it = hateing

Devour (to name one) has been on these forums every day posting approx 2 posts every single day and he dislikes the game...that counts as being a hater.

Originally posted by Xemous

I don't understand why people get more enjoyment from hating something than doing something they actually enjoy.  Let the people who enjoy and actually play DF, post on the forums, while the people who dislike it go do something more enjoyable and productive?  Some people just cant stand it when others enjoy what they hate.  They want to disenfranchise a company that makes a product they don't like.  Big deal, no one is holding a gun to your head telling you to buy and play it.

Since when did opinion = fact?  DF isnt the messiah, it isnt the bane either.  It is what you make of it.  I guess some peoples minds havent developed enough to understand this concept.  The only reason i defend it is so that someone who might actually ENJOY the game doesnt get led astray by people wanting to see themselves type.

 

My question would be, Why do you care?

Originally posted by kishe 

Writing a review or disagreeing with someone elses opinion= criticism

 

Spending months bashing the game and bashing the people liking it = hateing

 

Devour (to name one) has been on these forums every day posting approx 2 posts every single day and he dislikes the game...that counts as being a hater. 

TWO POSTS A DAY! Wow, I must have no life or something, being capable of posting TWICE A DAY. After all, anyone with a typing speed of over 0.5 words per minute is a loser and hater on Darkfall!

Originally posted by Devour

Originally posted by kishe 

Writing a review or disagreeing with someone elses opinion= criticism

 

Spending months bashing the game and bashing the people liking it = hateing

 

Devour (to name one) has been on these forums every day posting approx 2 posts every single day and he dislikes the game...that counts as being a hater. 

 

TWO POSTS A DAY! Wow, I must have no life or something, being capable of posting TWICE A DAY. After all, anyone with a typing speed of over 0.5 words per minute is a loser and hater on Darkfall!

The whole point was that the only posting you do is hating DF.  And yes you are on these forums all the time trolling DF its no secret.  You are not a critic.

Originally posted by Devour

 TWO POSTS A DAY! Wow, I must have no life or something, being capable of posting TWICE A DAY. After all, anyone with a typing speed of over 0.5 words per minute is a loser and hater on Darkfall!

Not if one uses one of these www.youtube.com/watch

EDIT: Doesn't the "Senior Product Innovator" remind you of someone ?

In my opinion, you have to the know the intent of someone's comments to know if they aare bashing or not.  This means that valid criticism can still be bashing if the intent of the criticism is to bring the game down and not to critique that certain aspect of the game.  The problem is that readers have no way to know the intent of  valid criticism because we can't read minds.

Or maybe some of you can?

Some statements are obvious because their intent in injected into the comment.

For instance,

"Tasos and his posse of clowns should be hit with a flaming bag of nickels for serving us the piece of crap on a plate they call Darkfall."

is obvious bashing /hating but so is

"Couldn't keep up with the awesomeness of the game could you? Take your simplistic carebear mind back to WoW or whatever themepark hand holding game and leave the real gaming to us."

Both statements are baseless comments meant to attack the game or playstyles of other people but what about this?

"Darkfall feels like a FPS arena because the game seems to concentrate more on the FFA FPS PVP while everything else seems tacked on or an after thought. Maybe if Aventurine puts back in the player housing and that awesome four-legged run maybe I would give it a go but definitlely not in its current state."

Are they really bashing or giving a overall general critique of the game? Is it really just an opinion or more of an attack because they compared it to a FPS arena? Is the true intent to post as much negative opinions to bring the game to its knees?  This statement is not cut and dry to me but some of you may disagree.

All I'm saying is that valid negative criticism could be bashing in my opinion. It's the true intentions of the comments that makes it so or not.  You can't say that bringing up the same things over and over again is always bashing because maybe they are saying it over and over because they think this certain thing really needs to change so things will be better. That's not bashing, that is an attempt to help. 

If it's valid and they back it up with good knowledge and logic, then leave it alone. You can't (can?) read minds. If you do not agree use good valid knowledge and logic in you rebuttal but do not slap labels on people when you truly do not know.

All the people posting crticism for the wrong reasons, stop please. Some of us want the game to get better, not to dissappear. 

Originally posted by Xemous

I don't understand why people get more enjoyment from hating something than doing something they actually enjoy.  Let the people who enjoy and actually play DF, post on the forums, while the people who dislike it go do something more enjoyable and productive?  Some people just cant stand it when others enjoy what they hate.  They want to disenfranchise a company that makes a product they don't like.  Big deal, no one is holding a gun to your head telling you to buy and play it.

Since when did opinion = fact?  DF isnt the messiah, it isnt the bane either.  It is what you make of it.  I guess some peoples minds havent developed enough to understand this concept.  The only reason i defend it is so that someone who might actually ENJOY the game doesnt get led astray by people wanting to see themselves type.

 

The thing is hating stuff has brought people enjoyment for a long time. But  others that have played the game and didn't like it try to spread the word to keep others from being duped.  Just liked when you boycott a company you tell others what happened and try to get them to join you in the fight. 

I do see your point about dragging someone away that might actually like the game. But you've got to remember what games have come out in the past 4 years and how many flops there have been by major game studios.  Ive been burnt so many times by this and weary about even trying DF.

  But you also have to remember people can read the posts and filter out the bs and look at videos and make a conclusion from there.  After all a trailer is supposed to spark interest and if it don't then most likely they won't like the game anyways. I have my own reasons for not playing the game, I know my self and I know I won't like the game. Plain and simple. 

Good lord.  I swear to God, that for all their talk about being the hardest of the hardcore, DF fans are the biggest crybabys and whiners of all.  People don't like your game and want to critise and make fun of it in a public forum.  Its called freedom of speech.  Just because your God King Tasos doesn't believe in it doesn't mean its not there for us to take advantage of.  And a large part of the reason people rag on DF is the attitude and words of its fans.  Never before in the history of gaming has so many douche bags been assembled in one game (well, maybe the Xbox Live Halo community might come close).   DF fans have been the biggest jerks and assholes on various gaming sites for quite some time now.  Reap what you sow fanboys.

Originally posted by Xemous 

The whole point was that the only posting you do is hating DF.  And yes you are on these forums all the time trolling DF its no secret.  You are not a critic.

Someone needs to know what they're talking about before talking about it, or they'll just get laughed at.

Originally posted by Shorun

Do you get enjoyment from bashing Darkfall-bashing people?

Yes. Because these are human feelings. I'm glad to see that some people still have them.

Maybe...possibly...perhaps...er....what are we discussing ad-nauseum again?

Originally posted by Devour

Originally posted by Xemous 

The whole point was that the only posting you do is hating DF.  And yes you are on these forums all the time trolling DF its no secret.  You are not a critic.

Someone needs to know what they're talking about before talking about it, or they'll just get laughed at.

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about regarding what they are talking about...then again what I'm talking about may be diffrent from what you are talking about as regards to the talking about points.

To the OP:

How many games that you've either never played or have only played briefly do you post about daily? Beyond giving your impressions or review, how many of those games would post about daily just to bash and argue about?

If you're like me, the answer is probably none.

So, just think about that. Who would do that kind of thing? And there's your answer. The people who do are not normal in the head.

Originally posted by harmonica

To the OP:

How many games that you've either never played or have only played briefly do you post about daily? Beyond giving your impressions or review, how many of those games would post about daily just to bash and argue about?

If you're like me, the answer is probably none.

So, just think about that. Who would do that kind of thing? And there's your answer. The people who do are not normal in the head.

tbh, that's oversimplifying the controversies surrounding THIS particular game.

i can not recall any game that has made boasts like tasos - what... a year ago or so? .... 'our game is currently more feature complete than any other MMO has been at release".   many months before the joke that was the limited-pay-to-play-beta release happened, is when that statement was made.

i can not recall any other game, cutting as many advertised features, as this game did.  and as far as i know (because i don't troll the darkfall online forums like a cultist, i read the OFFICIAL WEBSITE for the game), those features didn't get cut until post-limited-release; and some cut features are STILL listed on the official website.

tasos has stirred up quite a bit of controversy with both his babified tantrums, and his blatant lies.

someone that just today stumbled upon darkfall... would not be aware of any of this.

Originally posted by Devour

Originally posted by Xemous 

The whole point was that the only posting you do is hating DF.  And yes you are on these forums all the time trolling DF its no secret.  You are not a critic.

Someone needs to know what they're talking about before talking about it, or they'll just get laughed at.

Wikipedia is the most reliable source for information.

On a slightly serious note. You stop being a critic when you persistantly rant negatively or positively on something for the pleasure of demeaning or enriching it.  A critic gives his opinion based on his observation.  A hater/fanboi repetitivly gives his opinion to satisfy his/her agenda.

 You call yourself an average critic?  Youll just get laughed at.