im only looking for games that have depth at max level, almost every game ive played without endgame raiding has been really dull(nothing to do except for pvp and bs with friends and help nubs out)

ok here is a list of features im looking for in the game(not in amy specific order)

1- end game raiding(aka using dkp system, max level required, certain classes are pretty much a must to complete the zone. like in eq1/eq2 also these zones yeild the highest rewards avaiable in the game, better than any quested/instanced item(unless the quest requires the raid zone, as in eq2)

2-a) mage class avaiable(i know this doesnt seem like a big issue since most games have mages, but i have played a few without the mage class and its just not my thing to be forced to play a melee character)

b) my favorite mage classes include the main dps (warlock/wizard(in every game)) or a summoner type (necro/elementalist(only in eq1)) but im not partial to classes that debuff/charm (ide rather deal massive dmg, alto sometimes i play this class just because they require alot more skill to use)

3- newer mmorpg

4- p2p preferabbly, but if there is a good f2p game out there feel free to suggest it (f2p games have always sucked once you reach a higher level (ie atlantica online was fun for the first 100 levels. i quit at level 110 because the game just got really boring due to the lack of content)

5- a more mature community, im looking for a more adult(hardcore) game where little kids or noobs will not be able to reach max level aka requires thinking(unlike wow, more like eq1)

6- i really dont care for solo play (except for the early levels of course) so something with instanced zones that require a full group to complete is a +

7- pvp is a hit or miss in most games, i dont care if the game has pvp in it or not, if its there ill try it out, if not no biggie

8- level system, personally i hate the skill system games, im looking for a game where x level can give you x skill

9- AA system is a + but not required (usually AAs start at a high level, eq2 screwed up by lowering their aa system to lvl 10)

10- unique items(differnt rarety of items, aka common, normal, rare, mythical, etc...) eq1 was cool though, i liked how they had no level requirements on any item(with the exception of the SoS, which the shielding effect wouldnt work till level 50, but it was still equipable at level 1(atleast untill pop came out, the screwed up all the loot, which is why i quit eq1, funny thing is i went to eq2 where all items were capped lol)

11-boss mobs are a must

12- quest, meh most games have quest, but i almost never do them, atlantica online is the only game ive ever played where i did ever quest in the game. in eq2 i didnt do a single quest till RoK came out(except the class quest, but then eventually they got rid of the class quest), then i did every single RoK quest. and in eq1 i never touched a single quest ever.

13- hardcoreness (how hard it is to get high level) i really dont care, i dont want a game where i can play for 48 hours straight and reach a high level like in WoW. now im not a huge grinder so it takes me longer to reach max levels than most peoeple, i take alot of breaks to just talk with people and help other people out. in eq1/2 and AO i would pass time when i got bored with grinding by just talking to friends or giving away alot of plat/gold/items to people by making up quizes, game rooms, gambling stations, races, mini quests, etc... also in eq2 i would spend HOURS jumping around the crafting station in circles getting weird looks and tells from people that thought i was crazy lol.

thats all i can think of right now.

games ive already played

EQ1(4 years), EQ2(4 years), WoW(2 days), atlantica online, angels online, darkfall, UO, GW, vanguard, CO2, warrior epic, the warlords, asda story, FFXi, AC, RoM... theres alot more out there, but i cant think of them right now and they wouldnt even fall under the catagory im looking for (end game content)

feel free to make suggestions of current games or games that arnt even out yet (aka aion or whatever) because im going to be out of town for a few weeks for the military so im in no hurry to pay for something im not going to be using (like i am with DF, i quickly signd up for that game for 6mo and quit after 1 mo. the games only been out for 2mo, so im still stuck paying for the remaining 4mo(5 in total) im not going to even use.

other thoughts, chronicles of spellbourn looks interesting, but im kinda hesitant to sign up for it as the level of detail about the game is low and also the kicker is its free to DL but has a p2p fee, and im not sure how good of a game it can be if the game has no retail price lol.

thanks,

ExarchIce

I'm afraid that there isnt anything like what you are searching in the market right now, except for the obvious wow/eq... I also don't think any company will try to pursue that type of game right now, not worth it to compete with those two

Originally posted by tryklon

I'm afraid that there isnt anything like what you are searching in the market right now, except for the obvious wow/eq... I also don't think any company will try to pursue that type of game right now, not worth it to compete with those two

ya, thats what i was affraid of :( i really want a game that feels like eq, but more updated and populated. ive been looking for months for a game like that and have always came up short. im just hoping on the slight chance someone might know about a game like that thats in development. most the new games out only have 3-6 classes to choose from and limited end game content. i just built this new pc in hopes of darkfall seiges being cool  (since i couldnt do the massive pvp on my laptop) but its just one giant ffa since most people dont have high end systems, you end up dying to your own allies and stuff and also DF really screwed the game for me with the new patches the released in the month i took off while i was waiting on the money to build this pc. youd really think more people would try to develop a game like EQ or whatever considering how popular the games were. hell EQ1 is what really got me hooked on MMORPGs and it was really the stepping stone that made mmorpgs a big hit.

wow and aoc are only ones ,

aoc actually have some good pve content.. geez, you should saw launch and the numbers of pve guilds.. top pve guilds transfering from others game.. if only they kept to pve path, instead of going over pvp.. due community whines.. they could had whole another game..

still content they have will hold you for 2-3 months or more , new xpansion should comeout sometimes.. who knows..

probably should give wow another shot, i never played eq2, but im somewhat not afraid to say wow still have best pve encounters, whats sad, its the intervals they keep apearing.. less and less as the times goes on..

tbh, its shame that most new mmorpgs are pvp based, none of pvp based mmorpgs can be called succesfull , 300k isnt exactly big success..

there is plenty of pve games, more than you think , more then pvp, and probably more than casuals

should you saw aoc launch, and legendary wow guilds transfering to aoc, and having from 20 to 50 pve guilds per realm , trust me, if aoc didnt changed to pvp in mid develpment.. and actually finished those 3 raid tiers.. and then supported with new instances, aoc would have 2 mln subs like nothing

it isnt hard to say that from those 700k subs aoc had, 500k was pve players . considering how game droped to 150k subs in 3 months, as pve content ended in 2 months , game wasnt exactly broken for pvpers , sure some imbalance, some bugs.. but pvp is pvp ,

ppl are hungry for pve games.. raiding games.. its just devs who pick easy line, and imagine everyone is still that kid they were 10 years ago while playing cs, then they make retarded pvp mmorpg just to fail

if lotro wouldnt be monstosity of a game , with its pve it might had some success.. consider its pve only game, and still beats warhammer, easily so yeh..

Originally posted by Smikis

wow and aoc are only ones ,

 

aoc actually have some good pve content.. geez, you should saw launch and the numbers of pve guilds.. top pve guilds transfering from others game.. if only they kept to pve path, instead of going over pvp.. due community whines.. they could had whole another game..

 

still content they have will hold you for 2-3 months or more , new xpansion should comeout sometimes.. who knows..

 

probably should give wow another shot, i never played eq2, but im somewhat not afraid to say wow still have best pve encounters, whats sad, its the intervals they keep apearing.. less and less as the times goes on..

 

tbh, its shame that most new mmorpgs are pvp based, none of pvp based mmorpgs can be called succesfull , 300k isnt exactly big success..

 

there is plenty of pve games, more than you think , more then pvp, and probably more than casuals

 

should you saw aoc launch, and legendary wow guilds transfering to aoc, and having from 20 to 50 pve guilds per realm , trust me, if aoc didnt changed to pvp in mid develpment.. and actually finished those 3 raid tiers.. and then supported with new instances, aoc would have 2 mln subs like nothing

 

it isnt hard to say that from those 700k subs aoc had, 500k was pve players . considering how game droped to 150k subs in 3 months, as pve content ended in 2 months , game wasnt exactly broken for pvpers , sure some imbalance, some bugs.. but pvp is pvp ,

ppl are hungry for pve games.. raiding games.. its just devs who pick easy line, and imagine everyone is still that kid they were 10 years ago while playing cs, then they make retarded pvp mmorpg just to fail

if lotro wouldnt be monstosity of a game , with its pve it might had some success.. consider its pve only game, and still beats warhammer, easily so yeh..

personally i thought about wow, but i just cant bring myself to do it. its not so much that the game isnt fun, but for the simple fact my 11yo niece has 3 max level chars lol... the game takes little to no skill to play, and she even does raiding on her characters(both her parents and even her grandma plays the game) also with all the advertisements i see on tv all the time make me want to play it even less.

as far as AoC goes it kinda reminds me of Vanguard and DF. the game had HUGE hype and HUGE potential, but in the end it ended up all 3 ended up flopping out. i had a ton of my EQ friends move to vanguard(including my self) and then went straight back to eq after a month. then when AoC came out alot of my friends went to play AoC and were back within 2 months.

i would go back to EQ2 but the game died for me when alot of my friends ended up quitting the game, a MMO isnt just any fun without your friends.

and then we got DF which is just LoL, hell there were people waiting 8+ years as hardcore followers of the game waiting for it to come out and when it finally did it was a major dissapointment for most. alot of people cancled their account(including myself) hell i can auto run for 3-4 hours in that game while i watch tv and not see a single person. also on the DF forums all you ever see is people bashing the game, oh and the new patches in the game just make you want to play it even less. people bitched and bitched to get what they want, then once they gave in and let the people get what they wanted they all quit lol.

players shouldnt be able to control their community, the Devs do things for a specific reason, and if they listen to every stupid idea out there just to please a few people, they are going to piss alot of people off.

 Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is the perfect MMO for you. AA system soon will be implemented along with new raid dungeon. Game has alot to offer for hardcore gamers and very impressive after 2 years of polishing.

Vanguard Saga of Heroes

You'd probably love Aion considering it fits every single point you've posted. It's a bit intense on the PvP side but if you can overlook that, Aion would probably be the closest you can find to a EQ type of game without being as easy as wow.

Originally posted by Ephimero

You'd probably love Aion considering it fits every single point you've posted. It's a bit intense on the PvP side but if you can overlook that, Aion would probably be the closest you can find to a EQ type of game without being as easy as wow.

ya im looking foward to aion when it comes out. and 2 people above mentioned vanguard. i played vanguard when it first came out (and did beta testing for it) wasnt really my thing, was kind of dissapointed with it.

unfortunantly i will be out of town for the army when the aion beta starts :( but im going to be keeping an eye out on how the game turns out.

I haven't played it recently but I have heard that AoC has greatly improved since becoming under new management and is quite sucessful now.

May be an option >.>

Otherwise I suggest buying a time machine and playing WoW Pre-BC before it was ruined.

Here's a list of games that have end game raiding (you've already played most of them, so you might be better off just going back to playing one of the older games you liked):

Age of Conan, FFXI, WoW, Vanguard, EQ1, EQ2, Runes of Magic, Atlantica Online, Warhammer Online

@5 - EQ leveling required thinking?  How so?  You'd basically sit in the same spot and cast the same spells over and over till you eventually grow out of that area and move to the next.  Not much thinking required.  The amount of time it takes to level also doesn't effect how mature the community is at all.  Take F2P games for instance where the majority of the players are typically preteen or young teenagers.  Average age of a WoW gamer is around 20.

Have you considered actually trying WoW's endgame?  If you only spent 2 days on the game you didn't experience the endgame obviously.  48 hours is only going to put you somewhere at level 30 (and that's with a little powerleveling) which is no where near max.  I think as of right now WoW has pretty much the best endgame out of any MMO right now and I've done the end game in most of the games listed above (except maybe FFXI, I never did get a character high enough to try the endgame there since leveling is so slow).

I thought maybe a new game would fit the bill for you but looking at the list of games in development  your out of luck. Any chance you can change what you like to a sci-fi genre game? planty of those coming out. SW-TOR, SG-worlds and Star-trek to name a few. its sad but true that wow is probably the biggest raiding game out there ATM and no other game looks capable of replacing that until everyone gets really bored with it(ME) or decides to have a real life(Me also). +1 SW-TOR cause i love sci-fi.

If you are looking for only raiding at end game, then yea WoW is probably the best out there right now. However, all that WoW has as far as End game is raiding (and pvp, but who does that crap anyways?). The problem I had finding a new game was that I like options in my End Game raiding, rather than having to stick to a linear path and grind the current instance until the almighty Blizzard gods feel it's time to release a new one, once everyone and their mother has everything.

The things that keep me interested in a MMOs endgame is variety. To be honest, the most variety you will find right now is in EQ or FFXI, both older games, both taking quite a while to get to that endgame stage. Both of these MMOs will never leave you bored, however. I play FFXI atm and my linkshell literally has something to do every single night of the week.

Other less hardcore options would be EQ2, excellent raiding game and also has raid questing and contested World Bosses for some variety. Very fun.

I haven't had much experience personally with LOTRO but the end game seems rather lackluster to me.

Like many of you I am eagerly awaiting Aion, but for the summer I'll get my raiding fix from FFXI. There aren't many good MMOs out there for Ex-EQ raiders, and TBH I think FFXI and EQ2 are the only ones that could ever hold my interest. 

Perhaps you should take the summer off, get outside, play some tennis. Then when Aion hits in the Fall, come join my guild. I will always accept an ex-EQ raider. Some of the best players in the industry no doubt.

Vanguard is the way you would want to go it has everything that you are looking for.

AoC has some decent raid content. Currently there are two Tiers.

Tier one consist of three raid instances (4bosses) and Tier two consist of 3 instances (wings) and includes 9 bosses. You do have to complete an attunement chain to access Tier2 which ends with killing Vistrix (Tier1 raid boss) and you have to collect key shards from the last boss in wing1 and the last boss of wing2 for tier2 to get access to wing3 (well, 1 person in your raid can be keyed and open it for the raid).

The raid content has increased in difficulty on testlive, the change is definetly significant compared to live. So when 1.05 goes live  Raid gear (with the itemization revamp) has had its value increase greatly and even more so with how much harder it will be to attain.

Tier3 is suppose to have been in the works and from what I understand is suppose to release prior to the xpac but who knows.

I really only log in these days for raids or to do class testing on TL. The raiding is enjoyable, could be better but the game does lack in other areas. The pve is good though. As far as your mage class.. a Demo or Necro sounds about right for you.

Originally posted by Signore

Otherwise I suggest buying a time machine and playing WoW Pre-BC before it was ruined.

Ah... so true if only it was possible and they expanded onto prebc and not ended the actual strat/fun/farming for gear resist gear tier gear everything...

But i'm going to have to agree on vanguard thats the game your looking for and it's really fun if you join a pvp server.

PS "pick a bard i LOVE the class best class ever IMO speed buffs ftw! orrrrr you can be another class and be very very slowwww"