Originally posted by musicmann

Even though the OP post was well written and articulate, it still doesn't give a plausible reason to make a exit thread at all. Every MMO on the market can be picked apart and have their good and bad elements dissected up and down. The final verdict though stands with the indivdual player. You either are having fun or you're not, no reason to try and post and sway others from a personal opinion.

I still can't figure out why people think there's a need to bash or for that matter praise any given mmo. It's really all subjective and no matter how many may like it, there's an equal amount who can't stand it. Does that mean the one's who hate it have the right to tell the others that play and potential customers to stay away from it. A MMO will run it's course and either sink or swim, due to how the players percieve the game direction is heading all on it's own.

So what are we all doing here?  Talking about religions?

This is a game discussion web, we talk about the good and bad, and why we join or quit a game.  Its call discussions.  Oh by the way, what are you doing here?  Talking about not talking?  Interesting.

By your same logic, why should people exchange views at all,? If you do not like some food, just leave quietly and forever hold your tongue.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by Hellmoob

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin                                         --WALL OF STUPID--

 

You spent HOW long writing this, and it was the best you could do? THIS was the BEST you could do? Oh my.

1. I don't just play the game, I interact with other people. As an ex-member of Murder Herd,

stop right there. MH has been non-existent in this game.

 

You lose and have lost. If you spent that much time with MH, its not wonder why your bitter....you guys couldnt play the damn game and spent most of your time macroing.

ohh..edit...it took me as long to respond to your lameness as it did to stop laughing for enough time to respond to this one.

Oh man, I am even more confused. So now it is not only "you played to little/played to much to have a negative opinion of the game", but we now add "can't take your opinion seriously because you belong to the wrong guild"???

Forget it, I'd rather go back to WoW...

Originally posted by hoopty

Originally posted by musicmann

Even though the OP post was well written and articulate, it still doesn't give a plausible reason to make a exit thread at all. Every MMO on the market can be picked apart and have their good and bad elements dissected up and down. The final verdict though stands with the indivdual player. You either are having fun or you're not, no reason to try and post and sway others from a personal opinion.

I still can't figure out why people think there's a need to bash or for that matter praise any given mmo. It's really all subjective and no matter how many may like it, there's an equal amount who can't stand it. Does that mean the one's who hate it have the right to tell the others that play and potential customers to stay away from it. A MMO will run it's course and either sink or swim, due to how the players percieve the game direction is heading all on it's own.

 

Running around Darkfall naked because players are afraid of losing there best gear.Is not consider a game,It is not fun,It is not full loot..It is called chicken shit..The game is all pvp  nothing more and nothing less..It is a no brain game...I have better things to do in life than watching naked people running around and chasing each other.That must be real exciting for you!

This is funny. I have never even played DF and probably never will. I seen this thread yesterday and decided to chime in with a post more in line of all mmo's and not just DF.

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by musicmann

Even though the OP post was well written and articulate, it still doesn't give a plausible reason to make a exit thread at all. Every MMO on the market can be picked apart and have their good and bad elements dissected up and down. The final verdict though stands with the indivdual player. You either are having fun or you're not, no reason to try and post and sway others from a personal opinion.

I still can't figure out why people think there's a need to bash or for that matter praise any given mmo. It's really all subjective and no matter how many may like it, there's an equal amount who can't stand it. Does that mean the one's who hate it have the right to tell the others that play and potential customers to stay away from it. A MMO will run it's course and either sink or swim, due to how the players percieve the game direction is heading all on it's own.

 

So what are we all doing here?  Talking about religions?

This is a game discussion web, we talk about the good and bad, and why we join or quit a game.  Its call discussions.  Oh by the way, what are you doing here?  Talking about not talking?  Interesting.

By your same logic, why should people exchange views at all,? If you do not like some food, just leave quietly and forever hold your tongue.

My logic is more correct than most others. Sure it is not horrible to give praise or even discuss problems within a mmo. The point i was making is that it is all subjective and when people start to cross the line and try and sway others from spending their hard earn dollars on a product, then it becomes a problem.  Who really cares if DF was not made for everyone. Most mmo's other than WOW is built to cater to a certain type of gamer. Who are you to tell anyone that the game is so horrible they shouldn't play. MMO's will run their own course and either survive or fail. I've never even played DF, and probably won't. It surely is not from what anyone has said because i wasn't lazy and did research on the actual game and found it not to interesting. 

As for your example of bad food, movie or whatever. I have never went off what other people have wrote or said. Like i mentioned, it's all subjective to the indivdual's personal taste. I'm not the type of person that needs others to lead me around and tell me what is good or bad. I'm an adult and can make that decision for myself apparently unlike yourself.

Originally posted by Mattyb710

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by parrotpholk

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=191461

 

I think this says it very well on whats wrong with DF as a whole. I have in the past not agreed with some of the things the OP posted this however is very well written. 

 

FYI....Its a long post so if you dont have 5 minutes then do not bother.

 

*snipped*

Just some objective subjective response from, well, me.

 

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

+10 cool points for adding a Princess Bride reference ;)

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by musicmann

 So what are we all doing here?  Talking about religions?

This is a game discussion web, we talk about the good and bad, and why we join or quit a game.  Its call discussions.  Oh by the way, what are you doing here?  Talking about not talking?  Interesting.

By your same logic, why should people exchange views at all,? If you do not like some food, just leave quietly and forever hold your tongue.

My logic is more correct than most others. <blah blah blah>

The highlighted portion is illustrative of the real problem with what is going on - egos getting in the way of a constructive exchange of ideas and opinions.

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by musicmann

 So what are we all doing here?  Talking about religions?

This is a game discussion web, we talk about the good and bad, and why we join or quit a game.  Its call discussions.  Oh by the way, what are you doing here?  Talking about not talking?  Interesting.

By your same logic, why should people exchange views at all,? If you do not like some food, just leave quietly and forever hold your tongue.

My logic is more correct than most others. <blah blah blah>

The highlighted portion is illustrative of the real problem with what is going on - egos getting in the way of a constructive exchange of ideas and opinions.

I don't have a ego and i will admit that was a poor choice of words on my part.  I was trying to convey that mmo's can be discussed but when people start to cross the the line from a disusson to a down right trashing, then that is taking it to far..

Yes the OP's thread was civil. The problem is, out of that one thread, this topic has spawned 16 pages of non consrtuctive drivel that serves no purpose. The truth is, DF was not meant for this dude.. No need to shout it out loud so everyone knows that.

You either play the game and have fun or you don't. Every game has certain aspects that will cater to one type of crowd or another. It will never satisfy everyone. Coming here and discussing either a released game or a up and coming game is fine. When that turns into a personal opinion that tries to sway others form purchising or playing a game then that becomes a hidden agenda that doesn't deserve a discussion.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by musicmann

 So what are we all doing here?  Talking about religions?

This is a game discussion web, we talk about the good and bad, and why we join or quit a game.  Its call discussions.  Oh by the way, what are you doing here?  Talking about not talking?  Interesting.

By your same logic, why should people exchange views at all,? If you do not like some food, just leave quietly and forever hold your tongue.

My logic is more correct than most others. <blah blah blah>

The highlighted portion is illustrative of the real problem with what is going on - egos getting in the way of a constructive exchange of ideas and opinions.

 

 

I don't have a ego and i will admit that was a poor choice of words on my part.  I was trying to convey that mmo's can be discussed but when people start to cross the the line from a disusson to a down right trashing, then that is taking it to far..

Yes the OP's thread was civil. The problem is, out of that one thread, this topic has spawned 16 pages of non consrtuctive drivel that serves no purpose. The truth is, DF was not meant for this dude.. No need to shout it out loud so everyone knows that.

You either play the game and have fun or you don't. Every game has certain aspects that will cater to one type of crowd or another. It will never satisfy everyone. Coming here and discussing either a released game or a up and coming game is fine. When that turns into a personal opinion that tries to sway others form purchising or playing a game then that becomes a hidden agenda that doesn't deserve a discussion.

First, everyone has an ego.  Some people's egos are just more out of control than others.  Second, if something doesn't deserve a discussion, why are you discussing it?  It just keeps the thread at the top of the "Recent Forum Posts" and feeds the fire.  When was the last time you saw a post purporting to take the high road and show bashers the light truly have a positive effect on the course of a thread?  Many posts here are intended to feed the posters' egos, and, as unfortunate as it may be, no amount of talk will change that.

If the "quitter" really didn't enjoy the game after that much playing, it's probably a good thing he got out.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by musicmann

 So what are we all doing here?  Talking about religions?

This is a game discussion web, we talk about the good and bad, and why we join or quit a game.  Its call discussions.  Oh by the way, what are you doing here?  Talking about not talking?  Interesting.

By your same logic, why should people exchange views at all,? If you do not like some food, just leave quietly and forever hold your tongue.

My logic is more correct than most others. <blah blah blah>

The highlighted portion is illustrative of the real problem with what is going on - egos getting in the way of a constructive exchange of ideas and opinions.

 

 

I don't have a ego and i will admit that was a poor choice of words on my part.  I was trying to convey that mmo's can be discussed but when people start to cross the the line from a disusson to a down right trashing, then that is taking it to far..

Yes the OP's thread was civil. The problem is, out of that one thread, this topic has spawned 16 pages of non consrtuctive drivel that serves no purpose. The truth is, DF was not meant for this dude.. No need to shout it out loud so everyone knows that.

You either play the game and have fun or you don't. Every game has certain aspects that will cater to one type of crowd or another. It will never satisfy everyone. Coming here and discussing either a released game or a up and coming game is fine. When that turns into a personal opinion that tries to sway others form purchising or playing a game then that becomes a hidden agenda that doesn't deserve a discussion.

I high-lighted the two areas I wanted to comment on... I disagree with you on both of them.

I find absolutely no problem with many pages of "non-constructive drivel" as long as those participating are following the rules set forth here by mmorpg.com

I'd hazard a guess that the admin and staff here at mmorpg.com would agree with me.  After all that is purpose of this site.  The more traffic, and the more dialogue that a topic generates (16 pages... obviously generating a lot)... the better as far as revenue stream is concerned.

I am curious, what difference does it make to you if others choose to participate in a discussion that you deem to be "non-constructive drivel"?  If the topic, or posts are breaking rules here at mmorpg.com, then report them.  If not, then it would appear your posts are just adding to the "drivel" 

As for the second part above; it follows the same logic as the first. 

As long as a person is not breaking any rules by posting... then it's all fair game.  Anyone is free to report a post that they think is in violation.  If the mods let it stand, then you can choose to NOT read the post, or visit other MMO sites instead.

I'm curious as to why you think that everyone should be expected to post by the "rules" that you think are correct instead of the rules that mmorpg.com has set forth.  Now if this was your own site, and you set the rules... sure I could see you being upset when some posters didn't follow them.

However, since that is not the case... perhaps we should let the moderators do the moderating. 

If the posts seem like "unconstructive drivel" you could always just NOT read them. 

Originally posted by krieblood

Its no the system that makes darkfall a bad game. its the community being complete Pussys that make it a bad game. lets not get mixed up with system over puss players. the game would be awesome if everyone would leave starter towns instead of hiding under the towers and crafting with protected mats. the community make the game a boring Carebear fest.

Why because people are bitchs.

I believe the system is also broken, as pointed out by Hellmoob, but if blaming the "carebears" for everything makes you feel better...have at it.

Originally posted by krieblood

Its no the system that makes darkfall a bad game. its the community being complete Pussys that make it a bad game. lets not get mixed up with system over puss players. the game would be awesome if everyone would leave starter towns instead of hiding under the towers and crafting with protected mats. the community make the game a boring Carebear fest.

Why because people are bitchs.

You're right in that one of the central problems is people hiding under implemented protection, but wrong that it's not the system's fault. If you want people to go out and gear up and PvP, give them something to fight for besides each other's gear. I have no doubt there are quite a few people out right now in scale or better looking for a tear-up, but they lack a logical meeting place to kick each other's faces. No rare resources, no real "objectives" that aren't as easily attainable in protected areas (or at least nearby) means no PvP "hotspots" and a paucity of good fights. You either city raid some naked macroers or just ride until you find another group.

Point is, some people are cowardly, some people aren't - You have to give the ones who are an incentive to fight and the ones who aren't a place to meet them.

EDIT: I fail at quotes.

Originally posted by Hellmoob

Originally posted by krieblood

Its no the system that makes darkfall a bad game. its the community being complete Pussys that make it a bad game. lets not get mixed up with system over puss players. the game would be awesome if everyone would leave starter towns instead of hiding under the towers and crafting with protected mats. the community make the game a boring Carebear fest.

Why because people are bitchs.

 

You're right in that one of the central problems is people hiding under implemented protection, but wrong that it's not the system's fault. If you want people to go out and gear up and PvP, give them something to fight for besides each other's gear. I have no doubt there are quite a few people out right now in scale or better looking for a tear-up, but they lack a logical meeting place to kick each other's faces. No rare resources, no real "objectives" that aren't as easily attainable in protected areas (or at least nearby) means no PvP "hotspots" and a paucity of good fights. You either city raid some naked macroers or just ride until you find another group.

Point is, some people are cowardly, some people aren't - You have to give the ones who are an incentive to fight and the ones who aren't a place to meet them.

EDIT: I fail at quotes.

Hey hellmoob, you're from murder herd right?

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

Hey hellmoob, you're from murder herd right?

I was, not anymore.

Originally posted by Hellmoob

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

Hey hellmoob, you're from murder herd right?

 

I was, not anymore.

Well.. you were in the wrong guild and therefor cannot have an opinion* about darkfall.

*A darkfall opinion is only allowed to be positive.  Since you did not qualify your self with being in the "right" guild,  you are wrong.  Any thoughts or feelings you expressed are wrong.

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Hellmoob

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

Hey hellmoob, you're from murder herd right?

 

I was, not anymore.

 

Well.. you were in the wrong guild and therefor cannot have an opinion* about darkfall.

 

*A darkfall opinion is only allowed to be positive.  Since you did not qualify your self with being in the "right" guild,  you are wrong.  Any thoughts or feelings you expressed are wrong.

Umm, does DF even have "guilds"?  RM, you should probably proofread your QQ.

Originally posted by bmdevine

Umm, does DF even have "guilds"?  RM, you should probably proofread your QQ.

If one takes "guild" and "clan" to be synonymous... Which most sensible people would.

OK All of HellMoob’s original text in blue
Mycomments are in Red

IF YOU'RE GOING TO LOCK THIS THREAD (AND YOU PROBABLY ARE) TELL ME SO WE CAN AT LEAST DISCUSS IT.

Darkfall is awful. I knew it, I know it, and you know it. You can stop reading here if in your head you’re saying:
“IT’S NOT FOR EVERYONE! IT’S HARDCORE AND NOT CAREBEAR LIKE SHITTY GAMES WITH MILLIONS OF SUBS!”

Now that 95% of Forumfall are furiously drafting their 4-word rage replies, I’ll elaborate a little on my Darkfall game experience, since the default response to these threads (rather than a rational retort), is “lol nub got pwned” or “gtfo Darkfall isn’t for carebears”. Up to quitting about 2 weeks ago, I clocked 786 hours of Darkfall gameplay. That doesn’t include my 3 weeks in Beta, during which I played 12+ hours every day. There wasn’t a day that I didn’t log in, and only a handful where I wasn’t out PvP’ing for a large portion my playtime. I didn’t get “zomg facerolled”, I won the vast majority of fights I was in (50+ elemental, sharpshooter and weapon mastery is a handy combination). Yawn, nobody cares about my e-peen, yeah, I know, but the point is I’m not some random who played for 4 hours, got raped in the newbzone, and quit in a flurry of tears.

But I did stop playing. Why? Darkfall is a passable FPS mod with a few bare-bones RPG features tacked on in the grindiest incarnations I’ve ever seen. Without full loot, I’m reasonably sure nobody at all would play. Very subjective statement indeed but definitely gives indications of a player who is motivated primarily by loot and the associated ego that’s driven by “having more than you” Gathering is all the challenge of having the time to find somewhere quiet and click every now and then, and doesn’t create any sort of contested territories for rare resources.An indication of a game that is “better” in this regard would be helpful here. Gathering in Darkfall is very much like gathering in any other MMOG that I have tried, with the possible exception that you actually need to have the appropriate tools on hand and they don’t last forever, I really like the durability aspect of this game. Crafting is an unintuitive time/resource sink, totally devoid of any semblance of player skill, individuality or genuinely worthwhile outputs Here again maybe if the author would site an example they are happy with, rather than just saying “I don’t like it”, we could then use this to help us decide if we may or may not like the system. When SOE tried a crafting system that used “player skill” (really just reaction speed) in EQ2, the majority of players bitched about it enough that SOE eventually dumbed it down, so just maybe Adventurine was insightful enough to avoid that pitfall GG Adventurine. As far as the question of ”genuinely worthwhile outputs “,  Darkfall is the first game I have played in a long time that you actually see people wearing the armour that is crafted or using a weapon that is crafted more typically you see “EVERYONE running around in mob drops that you can be pretty sure they never actually seen the mob that dropped it, but rather won it in AH.  I don’t know if you’ve ever added up the materials for a Full Plate set, but it’s not pretty at all (ah of course everyone should be able to walk up to the first bush and have all the hypothetical “full Plate Seeds” drop out in three shakes! Shouldn’t they?). PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something (with the possible exception of the Fire Dragon, but I doubt it). Well it is a PVPcentric format but this description fits with many”popular” MMOs of late Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan. City building is a joke (cannons that shoot at nothing, glaring defensive faults in some major cities), and honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them. I can almost hear the cries of everyone that wanted to be in a pirate clan. Again I sense that the author somehow feels he should have multiples of everything and a bank chock full of things to help him have a sense of value for himself just because he put in so many hours.

PvP is fun… When you’re not raiding cities overpopulated with attended macroers (or getting zerged 8v1 by an alliance because every time they send one or two guys to kill you, they have to cry in clan chat about how they got slammed). This somehow doesn’t seem like a statement a person who makes this statement “Ewon the vast majority of fights I was in (50+ elemental, sharpshooter and weapon mastery is a handy combination)” Sincerely would make.  It’s particularly fun if you have the time to invest in Aventurine’s grotesque treadmill skill system, which primarily rewards having a lot of time to jerk off to furry erotica while your character macros (not that I would know, I manual clicked like a chump because I’m too lazy to download AutoIt). I am not sure here if the author is more upset that there are skills that need to be built up in the game or if he is disappointed that a number of people were able to exploit the system and he didn’t find out how until after they took some of the exploit loopholes out of the game. The best times I had in Darkfall were small group PvP fights with clanmates where we faced 2v1 or worse odds and ended up with more loot than we could comfortably carry. Another statement that gives an indication of the author’s true motivations. The problem was, those times were very sparse. If you’re going to have a huge, intricate world, you either have to have enough people to fill it and make it vibrant (you don’t) or you need to have areas worth fighting over other than player cities to concentrate the PvPers in those areas (none of those, either). The only places you were almost guaranteed to find other players were easily exploitable high profit spawns, camped out by nakeds with surefire escape routes, or else cities filled with yet more naked people itching to go 5v1 with an Ork in robes. Again the author doesn’t clearly state what the problem really is, I interpret it as, he is some childish spoiled brat that was happy the couple of times he and a friend were able to ass rape some stupid newb that was carrying too much loot, but it may be deeper than that.  The incentive to go out and look for great fights is substantially diminished when you realise it’s almost certainly going to take a few hours to get a good scrap, and some roll patrol is probably going to waste an inordinate amount of that time chasing you. The “Roll Patrol” was probably a bunch of clanmates of the stupid newb the author ass raped previously and wouldn’t shut up about.

I can hear a lot of people thinking “Darkfall is a sandbox, you fool! You’re just not creative or imaginative enough to enjoy its potential!”

No. No, no, no.

Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt. If you go and read the FAQ for the game that Aventurine said they would be releasing (I believe the entire thing is still on the official site), you’ll read about a sandbox game. A game with features for all kinds of players, a game where opportunities to be successful according to your own goals are virtually limitless, a game that allows both small individualistic clans and larger forces that sway the political landscape to coexist within a vibrant fantasy world. A game with a crafting system that actually rewards those who dedicate themselves to it in terms of their skill as a player, rather than simply the character skill treadmill. Where PvE battles are as enthralling and challenging as their PvP counterparts, and where the environment is as deadly and foreboding as the villainous PKers who inhabit it. A game with racial warfare and unique racial traits, as well as (finally!) a meaningful alignment system. Unique characters developed by an individual’s preference, able to be adapted to changing needs and desires, rather than the homogenous master-of-all-styles that every competitive player now uses, and is encouraged to use by the limitless skill system. A game with minimal grind, where ‘learning by doing’ would be just as effective in the long run as ultra-grinding skills. That may be true in Darkfall, but “the long run” measures in years rather than a few weeks. Can you even imagine getting weapon mastery without hours and hours of unproductive swinging? I really don’t like to think about it.  You see here is another indicator of one of the author’s problems; He seems to be frustrated that he was not able to attain “godliness” in the 768 hours he played. Skill ups do not come from unproductive swinging they come from fighting.

The fact is that Darkfall made grand promises and delivered hollow stand-ins for those promises. It is, in essence, an FPS in an open world setting, and with lootable items. The primary difference between Darkfall and the standard shooter, aside from the obvious full-loot mechanic, is that there’s no team balancing, no real objective other than “find some other guys and rape ‘em ”I thought these were the best times the author had?, so why is it a problem if it is one of the possible goals of the game? If Adventurine was more actively forcing “team balancing” (whatever that is), they would likely have been accused of limiting the players in what is supposed to be a “sandbox game”  and a lot more downtime between bouts of combat. Everything else is ancillary and shoddily created.

This is all stuff we’ve known since Beta.

Back in beta, a lot of people voiced the same concerns, a lot of people pushed for the game to be delayed. I was among them. The typical defence back then was “Ah, they have a totally awesome version of <shitty system>, it’s just not enabled!” No, folks. When they “turned on” weapon speed in beta, I suspect that was around about the time they actually coded it. The difference between beta and now is that back in beta I thought the Dev team would still be able to deliver - if they worked their asses off to bring us content updates and ameliorations for things like crafting. I made a post back then called “Even WoW has better craft/gathering than Darkfall”, and regrettably I must stand by that post to this day. You’re still playing beta, and you’re paying to do it. I really can’t remember a launch of a MMORPG in like ten years that statement hasn’t been said! So what does it mean?One might argue that an MMO is never finished, but Darkfall was never even release-ready. I wouldn’t be surprised if you had the energy you could go back and that exact line applied to the authors’ precious “WOW”

The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar. Tasos stated shortly before release that “Mahirim four-legged running is the only feature that didn’t make release”. Nobody here can say that was anything but a bare-faced lie. The first indication that they would not only fail to provide but continue their failure for months after release came with the great pre-order fiasco and AV’s horrible handling of sales for the first 3 weeks after what we’ll tentatively call “launch”. I posted on page 2 of the now ancient account problems thread, and sent numerous e-mails and support requests to Aventurine, Brannoc, and anybody who seemed like they even might listen. I still have not received a response. Fortunately for them, I decided to just get Darkfall on a new account by playing “refreshfall” for several nights running. My rage thread (long since locked) can be found here.

I still held out hope that maybe it was just their terrible management of billing that would be a problem, and that their actual talents as developers would shine through once the game was populated and the servers were stabilized. Well, no. Aventurine have given us a few patches (that were padded out with a great deal of “we made this spell and this spell and this spell and this spell work!” never mind that they didn’t anyway, eh?) and most of them were relatively inconsequential. No overhauls of crappy systems, not a great deal actually added to the gameplay experience, and there are still a few totally glaring opportunities for players to exploit the shit out of faulty coding. The vast majority of the changes that have been lauded by witless brown-nosers are things that should never have even made it into the release client. Today’s update, particularly the “things to look forward to” section, is a prime example of the sort of exaggerated vagueness that AV have consistently failed to make good on thusfar, and it provides me with very little hope indeed for the future of this already sinking ship.

To surmise, Darkfall is neither a sandbox nor a true RPG. It is a full loot alternative to the standard FPS, but with a less accomplished combat system and an abysmal grind to go along with it, as well as far less ‘action’. It had, and still has, enormous potential, but the developers have shown themselves to be incapable of building upon that potential to bring to us the game that they sold to us for years before Darkfall’s actual release. In effect, they took a very grandiose dream and forged a borderline nightmare out of its image. Take this opportunity to deny these incompetent shysters your money. Use it instead to play a finished game, or else to drown your sorrows that such a great idea became such a shoddy product.

Just sounds to me like someone that had expectations (possibly unrealistic or ones that were based on what he interpreted marketing statements to mean) that didn’t get met on his timetable… again probably this reviewer would have been perfectly happy and never would have written all this bla blah if Adventurine would have just put an “I win” icon and “I got more than you” Icon on his skill bar….

Feel free to flame me, I’ll flame you right back.

Signing Off,
-Hellmoob-

No fancy sign off here

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Hellmoob

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

Hey hellmoob, you're from murder herd right?

 

I was, not anymore.

 

Well.. you were in the wrong guild and therefor cannot have an opinion* about darkfall.

 

*A darkfall opinion is only allowed to be positive.  Since you did not qualify your self with being in the "right" guild,  you are wrong.  Any thoughts or feelings you expressed are wrong.

Umm, does DF even have "guilds"?  RM, you should probably proofread your QQ.

In computer and video gaming, a clan or guild is a group of players who regularly play together in a particular (or various different) multiplayer games . These games range from groups of a few friends to 1000-person organizations, with a broad range of structures, goals and members. ...

Originally posted by drDamage

OK All of HellMoob’s original text in blue
Mycomments are in Red

IF YOU'RE GOING TO LOCK THIS THREAD (AND YOU PROBABLY ARE) TELL ME SO WE CAN AT LEAST DISCUSS IT.

Darkfall is awful. I knew it, I know it, and you know it. You can stop reading here if in your head you’re saying:
“IT’S NOT FOR EVERYONE! IT’S HARDCORE AND NOT CAREBEAR LIKE SHITTY GAMES WITH MILLIONS OF SUBS!”

Now that 95% of Forumfall are furiously drafting their 4-word rage replies, I’ll elaborate a little on my Darkfall game experience, since the default response to these threads (rather than a rational retort), is “lol nub got pwned” or “gtfo Darkfall isn’t for carebears”. Up to quitting about 2 weeks ago, I clocked 786 hours of Darkfall gameplay. That doesn’t include my 3 weeks in Beta, during which I played 12+ hours every day. There wasn’t a day that I didn’t log in, and only a handful where I wasn’t out PvP’ing for a large portion my playtime. I didn’t get “zomg facerolled”, I won the vast majority of fights I was in (50+ elemental, sharpshooter and weapon mastery is a handy combination). Yawn, nobody cares about my e-peen, yeah, I know, but the point is I’m not some random who played for 4 hours, got raped in the newbzone, and quit in a flurry of tears.

But I did stop playing. Why? Darkfall is a passable FPS mod with a few bare-bones RPG features tacked on in the grindiest incarnations I’ve ever seen. Without full loot, I’m reasonably sure nobody at all would play. Very subjective statement indeed but definitely gives indications of a player who is motivated primarily by loot and the associated ego that’s driven by “having more than you” Gathering is all the challenge of having the time to find somewhere quiet and click every now and then, and doesn’t create any sort of contested territories for rare resources.An indication of a game that is “better” in this regard would be helpful here. Gathering in Darkfall is very much like gathering in any other MMOG that I have tried, with the possible exception that you actually need to have the appropriate tools on hand and they don’t last forever, I really like the durability aspect of this game. Crafting is an unintuitive time/resource sink, totally devoid of any semblance of player skill, individuality or genuinely worthwhile outputs Here again maybe if the author would site an example they are happy with, rather than just saying “I don’t like it”, we could then use this to help us decide if we may or may not like the system. When SOE tried a crafting system that used “player skill” (really just reaction speed) in EQ2, the majority of players bitched about it enough that SOE eventually dumbed it down, so just maybe Adventurine was insightful enough to avoid that pitfall GG Adventurine. As far as the question of ”genuinely worthwhile outputs “,  Darkfall is the first game I have played in a long time that you actually see people wearing the armour that is crafted or using a weapon that is crafted more typically you see “EVERYONE running around in mob drops that you can be pretty sure they never actually seen the mob that dropped it, but rather won it in AH.  I don’t know if you’ve ever added up the materials for a Full Plate set, but it’s not pretty at all (ah of course everyone should be able to walk up to the first bush and have all the hypothetical “full Plate Seeds” drop out in three shakes! Shouldn’t they?). PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something (with the possible exception of the Fire Dragon, but I doubt it). Well it is a PVPcentric format but this description fits with many”popular” MMOs of late Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan. City building is a joke (cannons that shoot at nothing, glaring defensive faults in some major cities), and honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them. I can almost hear the cries of everyone that wanted to be in a pirate clan. Again I sense that the author somehow feels he should have multiples of everything and a bank chock full of things to help him have a sense of value for himself just because he put in so many hours.

PvP is fun… When you’re not raiding cities overpopulated with attended macroers (or getting zerged 8v1 by an alliance because every time they send one or two guys to kill you, they have to cry in clan chat about how they got slammed). This somehow doesn’t seem like a statement a person who makes this statement “Ewon the vast majority of fights I was in (50+ elemental, sharpshooter and weapon mastery is a handy combination)” Sincerely would make.  It’s particularly fun if you have the time to invest in Aventurine’s grotesque treadmill skill system, which primarily rewards having a lot of time to jerk off to furry erotica while your character macros (not that I would know, I manual clicked like a chump because I’m too lazy to download AutoIt). I am not sure here if the author is more upset that there are skills that need to be built up in the game or if he is disappointed that a number of people were able to exploit the system and he didn’t find out how until after they took some of the exploit loopholes out of the game. The best times I had in Darkfall were small group PvP fights with clanmates where we faced 2v1 or worse odds and ended up with more loot than we could comfortably carry. Another statement that gives an indication of the author’s true motivations. The problem was, those times were very sparse. If you’re going to have a huge, intricate world, you either have to have enough people to fill it and make it vibrant (you don’t) or you need to have areas worth fighting over other than player cities to concentrate the PvPers in those areas (none of those, either). The only places you were almost guaranteed to find other players were easily exploitable high profit spawns, camped out by nakeds with surefire escape routes, or else cities filled with yet more naked people itching to go 5v1 with an Ork in robes. Again the author doesn’t clearly state what the problem really is, I interpret it as, he is some childish spoiled brat that was happy the couple of times he and a friend were able to ass rape some stupid newb that was carrying too much loot, but it may be deeper than that.  The incentive to go out and look for great fights is substantially diminished when you realise it’s almost certainly going to take a few hours to get a good scrap, and some roll patrol is probably going to waste an inordinate amount of that time chasing you. The “Roll Patrol” was probably a bunch of clanmates of the stupid newb the author ass raped previously and wouldn’t shut up about.

I can hear a lot of people thinking “Darkfall is a sandbox, you fool! You’re just not creative or imaginative enough to enjoy its potential!”

No. No, no, no.

Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt. If you go and read the FAQ for the game that Aventurine said they would be releasing (I believe the entire thing is still on the official site), you’ll read about a sandbox game. A game with features for all kinds of players, a game where opportunities to be successful according to your own goals are virtually limitless, a game that allows both small individualistic clans and larger forces that sway the political landscape to coexist within a vibrant fantasy world. A game with a crafting system that actually rewards those who dedicate themselves to it in terms of their skill as a player, rather than simply the character skill treadmill. Where PvE battles are as enthralling and challenging as their PvP counterparts, and where the environment is as deadly and foreboding as the villainous PKers who inhabit it. A game with racial warfare and unique racial traits, as well as (finally!) a meaningful alignment system. Unique characters developed by an individual’s preference, able to be adapted to changing needs and desires, rather than the homogenous master-of-all-styles that every competitive player now uses, and is encouraged to use by the limitless skill system. A game with minimal grind, where ‘learning by doing’ would be just as effective in the long run as ultra-grinding skills. That may be true in Darkfall, but “the long run” measures in years rather than a few weeks. Can you even imagine getting weapon mastery without hours and hours of unproductive swinging? I really don’t like to think about it.  You see here is another indicator of one of the author’s problems; He seems to be frustrated that he was not able to attain “godliness” in the 768 hours he played. Skill ups do not come from unproductive swinging they come from fighting.

The fact is that Darkfall made grand promises and delivered hollow stand-ins for those promises. It is, in essence, an FPS in an open world setting, and with lootable items. The primary difference between Darkfall and the standard shooter, aside from the obvious full-loot mechanic, is that there’s no team balancing, no real objective other than “find some other guys and rape ‘em ”I thought these were the best times the author had?, so why is it a problem if it is one of the possible goals of the game? If Adventurine was more actively forcing “team balancing” (whatever that is), they would likely have been accused of limiting the players in what is supposed to be a “sandbox game”  and a lot more downtime between bouts of combat. Everything else is ancillary and shoddily created.

This is all stuff we’ve known since Beta.

Back in beta, a lot of people voiced the same concerns, a lot of people pushed for the game to be delayed. I was among them. The typical defence back then was “Ah, they have a totally awesome version of <shitty system>, it’s just not enabled!” No, folks. When they “turned on” weapon speed in beta, I suspect that was around about the time they actually coded it. The difference between beta and now is that back in beta I thought the Dev team would still be able to deliver - if they worked their asses off to bring us content updates and ameliorations for things like crafting. I made a post back then called “Even WoW has better craft/gathering than Darkfall”, and regrettably I must stand by that post to this day. You’re still playing beta, and you’re paying to do it. I really can’t remember a launch of a MMORPG in like ten years that statement hasn’t been said! So what does it mean?One might argue that an MMO is never finished, but Darkfall was never even release-ready. I wouldn’t be surprised if you had the energy you could go back and that exact line applied to the authors’ precious “WOW”

The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar. Tasos stated shortly before release that “Mahirim four-legged running is the only feature that didn’t make release”. Nobody here can say that was anything but a bare-faced lie. The first indication that they would not only fail to provide but continue their failure for months after release came with the great pre-order fiasco and AV’s horrible handling of sales for the first 3 weeks after what we’ll tentatively call “launch”. I posted on page 2 of the now ancient account problems thread, and sent numerous e-mails and support requests to Aventurine, Brannoc, and anybody who seemed like they even might listen. I still have not received a response. Fortunately for them, I decided to just get Darkfall on a new account by playing “refreshfall” for several nights running. My rage thread (long since locked) can be found here.

I still held out hope that maybe it was just their terrible management of billing that would be a problem, and that their actual talents as developers would shine through once the game was populated and the servers were stabilized. Well, no. Aventurine have given us a few patches (that were padded out with a great deal of “we made this spell and this spell and this spell and this spell work!” never mind that they didn’t anyway, eh?) and most of them were relatively inconsequential. No overhauls of crappy systems, not a great deal actually added to the gameplay experience, and there are still a few totally glaring opportunities for players to exploit the shit out of faulty coding. The vast majority of the changes that have been lauded by witless brown-nosers are things that should never have even made it into the release client. Today’s update, particularly the “things to look forward to” section, is a prime example of the sort of exaggerated vagueness that AV have consistently failed to make good on thusfar, and it provides me with very little hope indeed for the future of this already sinking ship.

To surmise, Darkfall is neither a sandbox nor a true RPG. It is a full loot alternative to the standard FPS, but with a less accomplished combat system and an abysmal grind to go along with it, as well as far less ‘action’. It had, and still has, enormous potential, but the developers have shown themselves to be incapable of building upon that potential to bring to us the game that they sold to us for years before Darkfall’s actual release. In effect, they took a very grandiose dream and forged a borderline nightmare out of its image. Take this opportunity to deny these incompetent shysters your money. Use it instead to play a finished game, or else to drown your sorrows that such a great idea became such a shoddy product.

Just sounds to me like someone that had expectations (possibly unrealistic or ones that were based on what he interpreted marketing statements to mean) that didn’t get met on his timetable… again probably this reviewer would have been perfectly happy and never would have written all this bla blah if Adventurine would have just put an “I win” icon and “I got more than you” Icon on his skill bar….

Feel free to flame me, I’ll flame you right back.

Signing Off,
-Hellmoob-

No fancy sign off here

Hmmmm, something is missing...............oh wait i got it.

Now all rise and somebody sing the Star Bangled Banner

Originally posted by drDamage

Very subjective statement indeed but definitely gives indications of a player who is motivated primarily by loot and the associated ego that’s driven by “having more than you” Gathering is all the challenge of having the time to find somewhere quiet and click every now and then, and doesn’t create any sort of contested territories for rare resources.An indication of a game that is “better” in this regard would be helpful here. Gathering in Darkfall is very much like gathering in any other MMOG that I have tried, with the possible exception that you actually need to have the appropriate tools on hand and they don’t last forever, I really like the durability aspect of this game. Crafting is an unintuitive time/resource sink, totally devoid of any semblance of player skill, individuality or genuinely worthwhile outputs Here again maybe if the author would site an example they are happy with, rather than just saying “I don’t like it”, we could then use this to help us decide if we may or may not like the system. When SOE tried a crafting system that used “player skill” (really just reaction speed) in EQ2, the majority of players bitched about it enough that SOE eventually dumbed it down, so just maybe Adventurine was insightful enough to avoid that pitfall GG Adventurine. As far as the question of ”genuinely worthwhile outputs “,  Darkfall is the first game I have played in a long time that you actually see people wearing the armour that is crafted or using a weapon that is crafted more typically you see “EVERYONE running around in mob drops that you can be pretty sure they never actually seen the mob that dropped it, but rather won it in AH.  I don’t know if you’ve ever added up the materials for a Full Plate set, but it’s not pretty at all (ah of course everyone should be able to walk up to the first bush and have all the hypothetical “full Plate Seeds” drop out in three shakes! Shouldn’t they?). PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something (with the possible exception of the Fire Dragon, but I doubt it). Well it is a PVPcentric format but this description fits with many”popular” MMOs of late Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan. City building is a joke (cannons that shoot at nothing, glaring defensive faults in some major cities), and honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them. I can almost hear the cries of everyone that wanted to be in a pirate clan. Again I sense that the author somehow feels he should have multiples of everything and a bank chock full of things to help him have a sense of value for himself just because he put in so many hours.

PvP is fun… When you’re not raiding cities overpopulated with attended macroers (or getting zerged 8v1 by an alliance because every time they send one or two guys to kill you, they have to cry in clan chat about how they got slammed). This somehow doesn’t seem like a statement a person who makes this statement “Ewon the vast majority of fights I was in (50+ elemental, sharpshooter and weapon mastery is a handy combination)” Sincerely would make.  It’s particularly fun if you have the time to invest in Aventurine’s grotesque treadmill skill system, which primarily rewards having a lot of time to jerk off to furry erotica while your character macros (not that I would know, I manual clicked like a chump because I’m too lazy to download AutoIt). I am not sure here if the author is more upset that there are skills that need to be built up in the game or if he is disappointed that a number of people were able to exploit the system and he didn’t find out how until after they took some of the exploit loopholes out of the game. The best times I had in Darkfall were small group PvP fights with clanmates where we faced 2v1 or worse odds and ended up with more loot than we could comfortably carry. Another statement that gives an indication of the author’s true motivations. The problem was, those times were very sparse. If you’re going to have a huge, intricate world, you either have to have enough people to fill it and make it vibrant (you don’t) or you need to have areas worth fighting over other than player cities to concentrate the PvPers in those areas (none of those, either). The only places you were almost guaranteed to find other players were easily exploitable high profit spawns, camped out by nakeds with surefire escape routes, or else cities filled with yet more naked people itching to go 5v1 with an Ork in robes. Again the author doesn’t clearly state what the problem really is, I interpret it as, he is some childish spoiled brat that was happy the couple of times he and a friend were able to ass rape some stupid newb that was carrying too much loot, but it may be deeper than that.  The incentive to go out and look for great fights is substantially diminished when you realise it’s almost certainly going to take a few hours to get a good scrap, and some roll patrol is probably going to waste an inordinate amount of that time chasing you. The “Roll Patrol” was probably a bunch of clanmates of the stupid newb the author ass raped previously and wouldn’t shut up about.

I can hear a lot of people thinking “Darkfall is a sandbox, you fool! You’re just not creative or imaginative enough to enjoy its potential!”

No. No, no, no.

Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt. If you go and read the FAQ for the game that Aventurine said they would be releasing (I believe the entire thing is still on the official site), you’ll read about a sandbox game. A game with features for all kinds of players, a game where opportunities to be successful according to your own goals are virtually limitless, a game that allows both small individualistic clans and larger forces that sway the political landscape to coexist within a vibrant fantasy world. A game with a crafting system that actually rewards those who dedicate themselves to it in terms of their skill as a player, rather than simply the character skill treadmill. Where PvE battles are as enthralling and challenging as their PvP counterparts, and where the environment is as deadly and foreboding as the villainous PKers who inhabit it. A game with racial warfare and unique racial traits, as well as (finally!) a meaningful alignment system. Unique characters developed by an individual’s preference, able to be adapted to changing needs and desires, rather than the homogenous master-of-all-styles that every competitive player now uses, and is encouraged to use by the limitless skill system. A game with minimal grind, where ‘learning by doing’ would be just as effective in the long run as ultra-grinding skills. That may be true in Darkfall, but “the long run” measures in years rather than a few weeks. Can you even imagine getting weapon mastery without hours and hours of unproductive swinging? I really don’t like to think about it.  You see here is another indicator of one of the author’s problems; He seems to be frustrated that he was not able to attain “godliness” in the 768 hours he played. Skill ups do not come from unproductive swinging they come from fighting.

The fact is that Darkfall made grand promises and delivered hollow stand-ins for those promises. It is, in essence, an FPS in an open world setting, and with lootable items. The primary difference between Darkfall and the standard shooter, aside from the obvious full-loot mechanic, is that there’s no team balancing, no real objective other than “find some other guys and rape ‘em ”I thought these were the best times the author had?, so why is it a problem if it is one of the possible goals of the game? If Adventurine was more actively forcing “team balancing” (whatever that is), they would likely have been accused of limiting the players in what is supposed to be a “sandbox game”  and a lot more downtime between bouts of combat. Everything else is ancillary and shoddily created.

This is all stuff we’ve known since Beta.

Back in beta, a lot of people voiced the same concerns, a lot of people pushed for the game to be delayed. I was among them. The typical defence back then was “Ah, they have a totally awesome version of <shitty system>, it’s just not enabled!” No, folks. When they “turned on” weapon speed in beta, I suspect that was around about the time they actually coded it. The difference between beta and now is that back in beta I thought the Dev team would still be able to deliver - if they worked their asses off to bring us content updates and ameliorations for things like crafting. I made a post back then called “Even WoW has better craft/gathering than Darkfall”, and regrettably I must stand by that post to this day. You’re still playing beta, and you’re paying to do it. I really can’t remember a launch of a MMORPG in like ten years that statement hasn’t been said! So what does it mean?One might argue that an MMO is never finished, but Darkfall was never even release-ready. I wouldn’t be surprised if you had the energy you could go back and that exact line applied to the authors’ precious “WOW”

The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar. Tasos stated shortly before release that “Mahirim four-legged running is the only feature that didn’t make release”. Nobody here can say that was anything but a bare-faced lie. The first indication that they would not only fail to provide but continue their failure for months after release came with the great pre-order fiasco and AV’s horrible handling of sales for the first 3 weeks after what we’ll tentatively call “launch”. I posted on page 2 of the now ancient account problems thread, and sent numerous e-mails and support requests to Aventurine, Brannoc, and anybody who seemed like they even might listen. I still have not received a response. Fortunately for them, I decided to just get Darkfall on a new account by playing “refreshfall” for several nights running. My rage thread (long since locked) can be found here.

I still held out hope that maybe it was just their terrible management of billing that would be a problem, and that their actual talents as developers would shine through once the game was populated and the servers were stabilized. Well, no. Aventurine have given us a few patches (that were padded out with a great deal of “we made this spell and this spell and this spell and this spell work!” never mind that they didn’t anyway, eh?) and most of them were relatively inconsequential. No overhauls of crappy systems, not a great deal actually added to the gameplay experience, and there are still a few totally glaring opportunities for players to exploit the shit out of faulty coding. The vast majority of the changes that have been lauded by witless brown-nosers are things that should never have even made it into the release client. Today’s update, particularly the “things to look forward to” section, is a prime example of the sort of exaggerated vagueness that AV have consistently failed to make good on thusfar, and it provides me with very little hope indeed for the future of this already sinking ship.

To surmise, Darkfall is neither a sandbox nor a true RPG. It is a full loot alternative to the standard FPS, but with a less accomplished combat system and an abysmal grind to go along with it, as well as far less ‘action’. It had, and still has, enormous potential, but the developers have shown themselves to be incapable of building upon that potential to bring to us the game that they sold to us for years before Darkfall’s actual release. In effect, they took a very grandiose dream and forged a borderline nightmare out of its image. Take this opportunity to deny these incompetent shysters your money. Use it instead to play a finished game, or else to drown your sorrows that such a great idea became such a shoddy product.

Just sounds to me like someone that had expectations (possibly unrealistic or ones that were based on what he interpreted marketing statements to mean) that didn’t get met on his timetable… again probably this reviewer would have been perfectly happy and never would have written all this bla blah if Adventurine would have just put an “I win” icon and “I got more than you” Icon on his skill bar….

Feel free to flame me, I’ll flame you right back.

Signing Off,
-Hellmoob-

No fancy sign off here

You're wasting both my time and my ocular wellbeing with a post this terrible, but alright, I'll push your shit in for funsies.

1. What MMO isn't driven by a sense of personal accomplishment?

2. WoW has better gathering. Varied resources, low yield nodes, areas where resources are contested. Just to name three things, and that's from WoW.

3. I'm not going to write out the entire Dragonrealms crafting system, so let me paraphrase one example put forward by my Forumfall buddy Preka: Imagine you want to make a bastard sword. Instead of having a set recipe, you instead have the option of what kind of metal (or alloy) to forge the blade from, how to temper the sword, how finely to sharpen the edge, how weighty the sword should be, what material should be used for the handle... Etc... You get the idea. Crafter customization based around player skill.

4. Mob dropped stuff is usually about as good apart from durability, and not many people wear gear long enough to break it. I could easily get several sets of low durability Full Plate for the time investment of crafting one high durability one (that, bear in mind, I could lose within about one durability point if I'm unlucky).

5. No, idiot, it's about input vs. reward. A set of full plate doesn't have the value of the materials involved in creating it.

6. No, advertising a game with revolutionary PvE and then excusing its shittiness with "it's a PvP game" isn't an argument I'll accept.

7. I do have a bank full of shit, but I don't have the option to go out and be a marauding sea-dog unless I'm part of an enormous conglomerate clan, and then who would I pirate, since virtually nobody runs with ships? It's about accessibility and palyer choice while still allowing an advantage to those able to invest the man-hours.

8. I won the vast majority of fights that were anywhere close to evenly matched, but I did have to spend a long time getting away from ones that weren't.

9. I was on the "winning" side of the exploit curve for most of the skills, that doesn't mean that I don't protest that everyone who wasn't got raped by being unable to use even a semi-illegitimate method to catch up to me. And what are my "true motivations" exactly? Have fun? Shock! Horror! NEVER!

10. The problem is that "fun" fights are hard to find, because people either don't want to fight or want to be sure they have an overhwelming advantage when they do. A lack of reading comprehension isn't justification to call me out as a bad player, you're just making yourself look like a jackass.

11. A roll patrol refers to a group that travels together in a 10+ looking for inferior numbers to fight. Sorry if my technical jargon was over your head.

12. Did you play Darkfall? Skill-ups DO come from unproductive swinging. Or maybe dumping a few thousand arrows into a mob with very high hitpoints. If you skill up from just fighting, you'll be a long, long way behind the curve. And I did attain very high skills, you'd just forgotten the first part of my post by the time you'd raged your way down to here.

13. I didn't say they should force balancing, I was pointing out a discrepancy between the two. Just because my opinions are sound doesn't mean you should make up shoddy ones and then tack them on to what I'm saying. It's a problem because it doesn't give people a centralized incentive that will bring them together and facilitate these "best times I ever had".

14. Yeah, I'm sure other MMOs having faults in their launches is justification for this one being so horrendous.

15. I like how you didn't try to refute any of my criticism of the devs. Guess even you couldn't spin a plausible (albeit brutally flawed and transparent) counterpoint to that.

16. I didn't want an "I win" button, nor did I ever state that. I wanted a challenging, immersive and enthralling MMO. Like the MMO they promised. I'm sorry if expecting someone to deliver on their promises isn't justification to criticize them when they fail on nearly all counts to do so.

Feel free to respond to this, if you can honestly blindly ignore your own criticism's lack of substance long enough to do so.

-Hellmoob-

This game is a big FAIL and even die hard fans like this guy who played it for over 700 hours have realised it.

Also pretty classy of AV to permaban him for his post. This game and the people behind it are pathetic and the sooner they vanish the better for all MMORPGs.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

So, I’ll come full circle and respond to anything of substance that this guy mentions in this one post rather than bouncing around, leaving out the non-notable and redundant remarks out since those are purely nothing more than bloviating and some of the idiots in this thread are still akin to arguing that an empty remark such as that as ‘this sucks’ is a substantiated one; good luck in your real-life endeavor.     dude! i love this game!  i'm red!

 

But, there are true, false, and misleading points in his the authors departure post. Best post? No way, unless you’ve not see other departure posts and perhaps you might be new to mmorpgs as possibly many of those that visit this forum with a 4,3,2, or 1 month old subscription to might be.  speaking of non-notable and rambling... you are NOT off to a good start bub.

 

I clocked 786 hours of Darkfall gameplay.

>786? 786? Wuwuwu 786? omg. And I say this with all bewilderment. . .now, I’m not a hardcore player and tend to lead a normal life of, well, real-life stuff. I normally play when I can, but if the average mmo gamer who I think might spend 3 hours a day playing, played 786 hours, then he/she would have played 262 days.  normal?  for a noob.  this is a HARDCORE pvp game... remember?  you're already losing credibility.  step it up and recover, bub.

 

Rounded-up, that’s about equivalent to 9 months of game-play. for a casual player, yes.  this is a hardcore game.. you've got a big assed paragraph just so you can say "i'm a VERY casual player, i'm not hardcore".. going to have to remember that you're casual... so that i don't take the rest of your statements as a pro's.  

So this person plays, lets say, 3x as much. My god. If that’s all I did for about 9 hours a day, over about 3 months, is play a damn game while neglecting real-life, while still trying to enjoy something that was designed for entertainment rather than a real-life activity, I’d be a bit stir-crazy and get purely bored with it too rather quickly.

lots of us hardcore gamer types, work 40-60 hours a week and get by on 3-5 hours of sleep a night.  you're mocking someone's playing hours?  FAIL.  your initial remarks are all high and mighty - and your first comments are uncalled for slams against someone that plays a lot?  welp, you've pretty much lost all credibility (ALREADY!!!!!)

 

Darkfall is a passable FPS mod with a few bare-bones RPG features tacked on in the grindiest incarnations I’ve ever seen.

> Clearly, if one that spent that much time in a player-centrically designed game,

STOP right there... what EXACTLY are you trying to say?

and has no clue as to the back-ground as to why combat is designed to be in first-person to substantially minimize situational awareness and heighten the virtual fear-factor, then one could question whether the game is for such a person in the first place.

you are directly replying to a comment which states that this is an FPS with a few RPG features... what the hell are you going on about?  your reply to what YOU directly copied... makes no sense.

But none-the-less, it is a combative first-person game. And if you don’t like combative, player-driven and influenced first-person designs, then you will not like DF, is my suspicion, and that is a valid reason not to play or appreciate the game. But is false to classify this game as a passable FPS with the breadth and depth of game-play options, even without what I had hoped would be in the game at launch.

you are still not talking about anything which you pasted.  how are you disputing fps, few rpg elements, or grindiest games in the history of the world?  based solely upon what you pasted (to reply to)... i do not see where anyone is saying they don't like combative first person combat.  i have no idea what you're replying to; but, it is obviously not what is typed in white letters.   wtf???

 

>And bare-bones RPG? Well, the players drive their roles and your not pigeon-holed into any one role, but do have the freedom to adopt many in DF.

name them.  do not make generic statements without supporting them.  remember your first paragraph?  if i would apply that to your replies... i think i'd only have one sentence to reply to, thus far.

What I don’t have a grasp of is the specific RPG element, unless it might be PvE related, that the author is looking for.

do you know what RPG stands for, or is?

Aside from that, you are not going to play this game, as you would other pve-centric mmo’s in the safety of a computer influenced and tethered safety net when other players are around. In other words, your role is only as important or fulfilling as the team that your playing with, and if your not part of a clan for hire, mercs, or an alliance that plays as a group or team, your not going to have any rpg appreciation for DF because there is no code-driven scripted story or path that your character is inclined to take following its creation.

 um... again, you're making completely generic comments without giving any examples of anything.  you're actually taking words out of the quoted SENTENCE, and replying to the words themselves?  wtf? 

> Grind? Purely subjective and not inconsistent at all with any other mmo on the market. As with other mmo’s, in DF, you have no choice but to incrementally advance in skills or attributes or task oriented things in order to, well, improve and advance. If you want to talk about grind, my god, was getting to jedi in swg a grind.

 in other mmos, you grind ONCE to level to whatever the level cap is.  i level one handed swords.  i get 4 specials for one handed swords, WHICH I HAVE TO LEVEL INDEPENDANT OF EACH OTHER.  so, i get 100 in 1 handed swords; but i'm still at level 1 skill in the other 4 specials.  want 1 handed sword knock back to 100?  you  have to do THAT specific skill (which will not level 1 handed swords, or any of the other 1 handed attacks), until you hit 100. 

name the EXACT game, where you have this much grind.  eq, you get a few points you can level up as you hit new levels.  i'm pretty certain that games like eq do not have anywhere near as many weapons (and the exact same special attacks to purchase) which must be individually leveled, to a mutual exclusive of all other abilities with that exact same weapon.

why did you pick apart the individual words in the sentence quoted, instead of actually replying to the sentence you quoted?  that makes no sense at all, i'm sorry.

 

Without full loot, I’m reasonably sure nobody at all would play.

> Why? No explanation why and Im afraid we cant guess as to why this is the case.

you are pretty much describing all of your replies thus far.

It makes for a less then notable point. Though I will go out on a limb and say that the risk-reward system in this regard of having full loot is an appreciated governor as to how a victor is rewarded and the beaten is taxed.

so, you've never been to a siege.  this is quite obvious from the above.  in a siege, the bottom feeders will try to loot everything possible and rush to the bank and deposit.  winner? loser?  doesn't matter - the bottom feeders will do this.  your above is completely incorrect, in regards to the CORE part of the game -- sieging.

There will always be winners and losers, and those that only measure how they value fun based on retainment all the time or winning all the time are going to be extremely disappointed with their DF experience. Having said that, there are too many features that players have access to for game-play to suggest that this one feature is the hook.

 you complain about statements being made which have no backing... again,  you're not providing any substance.  please elaborate.

Better Gathering is all the challenge of having the time to find somewhere quiet and click every now and then, and doesn’t create any sort of contested territories for rare resources.

> I personally don’t base my game-play immersion or fun on gathering. Gathering is gathering and the mechanism is no different then the mechanisms experienced in other mmo’s. What the devs did implement to lessen the clicking, which hasn’t been available in other titles, for multiple gatherings from a single node, is one-click and your character continued farming that resource until depleted.

what does that have to do with there being rare resources in certain areas, and those areas being contested territories (for control of said rare resources)?  absolutely nothing.  why are you not replying to what you quoted?

you really should have replied to the entire post, in context.  you may have understood what the author had said, a bit better.

 

Crafting is an unintuitive time/resource sink, totally devoid of any semblance of player skill, individuality or genuinely worthwhile outputs. I don’t know if you’ve ever added up the materials for a Full Plate set, but it’s not pretty at all.

> Crafting isn’t intuitive and there isn’t a newbie help manual that hand-holds you through it, true. There is time commitment as with any mmo, so DF is no different in that regard that there aren’t any hand-outs, and well, it also requires resources as with any mmo. And it is as much a progressive accomplishment as anything else, and is not devoid of any semblance of player skill since, well, it requires skill advancement and the attainment of materials through gathering in order to progressively move through the skill; not unlike progressively moving through any skill.

 player skill? don't you mean character skill?  i really don't understand.  maybe it's because you're looking at this game as either a casual player, a noob, or both? 

what can i create that is unique?  my armor/weapons are only unique in that it will have variable durability based upon whatever randomness is involved in the creation + a (seemingly) random bonus based upon the appropriate trueforge level.   if i want to do anything "special"; then, i have to enchant.  otherwise, i'm just creating random generic crap, just like everyone else.

 

PvE is either exploiting or bringing an enormous quantity of people to box/focus fire something (with the possible exception of the Fire Dragon, but I doubt it).

>Furthest from the truth now.   total, complete BULLSHIT.  all pve is -- is getting mobs stuck, or shooting melee-only (or ranged-weak) mobs.

As with with any mmo, the devs have continuously improved mob ai and minimized the ability for a minority of players to trap the code. But then again, this isn’t a pve game and though I’d like to see more of an effort on the nature of npc mobs and their interference and interplay with actual players, this is not a mob-cenric game, but one where the players become the mobs and offer distinctly better combative intelligence and unpredictability as it relates to playing against the environment; the environment is the players in DF.

welp, now you're directly in opposition to many statements made by tasos.  according to him, the ai/npcs in this game are ground breaking and revolutionary.  my goodness, they're so advanced, that they helped beta test this game (stress test, exploiting, playing the game, etc).

 

Siege warfare is lag-rape, and the political landscape is a handful of giant unskilled conglomerates plus Afghanistan.

> Not really at all quite correct, but there is some truth to some of it. Firstly, there are absolutely more downward adjustments to video and sound game-play that needs to be controlled by the player in DF when engaging in a siege where there are hundreds of players localized at the same time.

um, hit 50ish players and DON'T have your sound card disabled... you've obviously not been involved in anything other than very small scale battles.  why do you, a casual player, continue to talk about sieging below?

As with any mmo, most players still need to make system adjustments when there are hundred playing localized at the same time.

hundred my ass.  50ish, if you're lucky. 

But as with DF, those scenarios dont occur nearly as frequently as the skirmish or 'teens' against ‘teens’ of players that combat or play collectively at the same time, and locally, where the game runs very smoothly at higher settings.

so, i'm not seeing city siege spam on my screen on a daily basis?  city/hamlet sieges are THE core of this game.  have you ever played darkfall?  or, do you casual players, just not engage in the core part of this game?

>Secondly, this game does highly depend on player-influenced diplomacy and participation, leaders, soldiers and followers, and the political landscape is a fluid one and will continue to be a fluid one; the political landscape has not be static, but dynamic. I happen to think that with the finite size of the world and finite number of players participating, it does lend itself to a short shelf-life in some respects.

did you really just pick the word "diplomacy" out of what you quoted, and reply to that word?  because this reply really has nothing to do with what you quoted.  you're not being clever, by replying to a word at a time.  sorry.

 

City building is a joke (cannons that shoot at nothing, glaring defensive faults in some major cities), and honestly boats and warhulks are so prohibitively expensive for the value they deliver that only the most wealthy (read: heaviest exploiters) will ever bother with them. I can almost hear the cries of everyone that wanted to be in a pirate clan.

 

>City building is a guild and alliance commitment and a very involved developmental affair; far from a joke. 

WRONG.  it's a resource grind -- NOTHING more.  prove me wrong... show me where i can get very involved with where i want to place a city/hamlet, and then where i want to put walls and buildings and lazer towers.  go ahead, prove me wrong with FACTS.  because there is no involvement other than resource grindage.

However, I dont like the static nature of not being able to plan your own city at all and i do not like the lack of ability to place structures with a building zone, where you would want to place them.

um, seriously?  you're contradicting yourself just a sentence later?

 

>Huh? Cannons that shoot at nothing? I’d really question some of your credibility by that statement alone. Clearly lacking in siege experience if the author has not seen cannons set-up in action to take out enemy forces and defenses.

 um, judging from your previous statements, you honestly seem to have not been in any type of siege.  so i am confused as to the above.

> And eluding to winners being exploiters? Not only is that completely false, aside from AV addressing exploiters as do any dev's of many mmo's, that ability to bring a WH to a siege didn't result in a win for one alliance that alliance brought it to a recent siege and ended up losing the siege they initiated. The author’s completeness of information is again questionable.

whoa.  i have to call bullshit here again.  total, complete, bullshit.  you either don't play this game at all, or you're just lying.  look at all the items that exploiters did when the server first opened -- how many skill raising exploits are no longer allowed?  what about all the stuck mobs being farmed for tons of loots?  have any of these skills or wealth, been removed?  no.   i highly doubt, at this point, that you play this game at all.

 

PvP is fun… When you’re not raiding cities overpopulated with attended macroers (or getting zerged 8v1 by an alliance because every time they send one or two guys to kill you, they have to cry in clan chat about how they got slammed). It’s particularly fun if you have the time to invest in Aventurine’s grotesque treadmill skill system, which primarily rewards having a lot of time to jerk off to furry erotica while your character macros (not that I would know, I manual clicked like a chump because I’m too lazy to download AutoIt).

 

>PvP is fun, but again, character development is no more arduous in DF than in any other mmo;

you either don't play darkfall, or you haven't played other mmos.  the above statement could not be more wrong than if you stated "the earth is made of very much marshmallows, and i just consumed the entire planet". 

you will no more feel like a gerbil on a wheel in DF than you would to advance your character in any other mmo.

um.  dude, seriously, buy the game and play a bit.

The arenas in DF are not developer implemented, their player-implemented,

looking at the forums and the official website -- you NEED support to the above statement, or stfu..  it also is completely incorrect.

and yes, there is a lot of attended sparring that goes on in this game for skill.

tons of unattended, far moreso than attended.  unless you're counting beating on afk players as "attended".

There’s no way to eliminate the unattended macroers, which sucks, and this is one of my big disappointments with the game. The virtual world is always on and you can always be in. But regardless, someone is always to have higher skills than me due to them having more play-time, as with any mmo, but the span between those that play more is significantly slanted in favor of those that can macro unattended for very long periods of time, perhaps such as yourself. Should I say goodbye macroer?

ok, either start using more punctuation; or...i dunno.  but i'm really getting tired of having to read your sentences several times, to figure out wtf you're TRYING to say.  the span between people that play MORE (which means they'll be macroing as soon as they log offline); isn't different than those who macro unattended for very long periods of time.  you just say random things without providing any support for your statements.  wtf.

This would concern me more if this was a solo game, but that edge that those macroers gain is substantially blunted by the team-combat of this game in most situations where regardless of what your skill is, outcome is a matter of character skill, players skill, augmented items like food and pots, gear, weapon, and situation; not just character skill.

um, a character with 80+ in STATS (str, dex, etc), 100 in the various defenses/resistances, 100 in attacks (and the accompanying 4 bonus powers per weapon type)... has a HUGE advantage over your "other" players. 

None-the-less, I am still not appreciative at all of the ability for players to macro at all, and with the devs attention to skill advancement increase, the void between the macroers and the ones that don’t closes that much more quickly.

 so folks like themercs are quitting?  otherwise... it's just becoming HARDER to grind to 100 in all those bloody skills.  the gap is widening. seriously, buy this game and play it, before you decide you're an expert and can rip apart other people's statements.

 

The best times I had in Darkfall were small group PvP fights with clanmates where we faced 2v1 or worse odds and ended up with more loot than we could comfortably carry. The problem was, those times were very sparse.

 

> Two things. Firstly, the world does need to retain its population and see it grow.

1 - what does this have to do with what you quoted?

Secondly, there is no difficulty looking for a fight, ever, at what ever odds you want. The challenge of finding it more immediately as you’d like, is certainly challenged by the seemingly missing player-base to sustain a player-driven world.

 um...

 

AV If you’re going to have a huge, intricate world, you either have to have enough people to fill it and make it vibrant (you don’t) or you need to have areas worth fighting over other than player cities to concentrate the PvPers in those areas (none of those, either).

 

> Again, we addressed the player-base population so that’s redundant,

we did?  elaborate, instead of making generic statements of blah. 

but if you cant find a guild that has enough leadership to get involved in the diplomacy, politics, raiding or city siegeing aspects of game-play, then either find another group, a more active group, but to claim that there aren’t areas of frequent combat or the ability to drive combat in an open pvp world is absolutely false.

 um, again, you're not replying to what you quoted.  what EXACTLY does the above have to do with having areas worth fighting over (other than player cities), or a vibrant world?   casual player or not, you need to reply to what you're quoting.

The only places you were almost guaranteed to find other players were easily exploitable high profit spawns, camped out by nakeds with surefire escape routes, or else cities filled with yet more naked people itching to go 5v1 with an Ork in robes.

 

>A month ago perhaps, regarding exploit, but as mentioned about the attention and frequent updates that the devs have implemented, as would and do devs from any other mmo, this is not prevalent.

um, pretty much every NPC/mob out there, that can be killed, is killed by exploiting it... glitching them, getting them stuck, shooting from a spot where the mob can't attack back, taking advantage of broken game mechanics...  talk about items in which you participate.  UNLESS they made a change in the last couple of hours to the game (did we get a surprise patch a few minutes ago?).  ok?

However, you will still find ‘groups’ of players, as in any other mmo, camping highly profitable mobs still, as its player-nature. Bring your own group and combat them.

 again, you're not addressing what you quoted.  don't expect people to take your posterificationings seriously.

 

The incentive to go out and look for great fights is substantially diminished when you realise it’s almost certainly going to take a few hours to get a good scrap, and some roll patrol is probably going to waste an inordinate amount of that time chasing you.

 

>Again, false. If anyone is traveling nearly that much, even nearly nearly that much for a good scrap, then you must be playing a different game than I am.

not sure why you quoted or replied to that... but um, i'm pretty sure you're not playing darkfall currently - casually or not - based upon this post alone.

 

Darkfall? Sandbox? Ultima Online is a sandbox, SW:G is a sandbox. Darkfall is dirt. If you go and read the FAQ for the game that Aventurine said they would be releasing (I believe the entire thing is still on the official site), you’ll read about a sandbox game. A game with features for all kinds of players, a game where opportunities to be successful according to your own goals are virtually limitless, a game that allows both small individualistic clans and larger forces that sway the political landscape to coexist within a vibrant fantasy world. A game with a crafting system that actually rewards those who dedicate themselves to it in terms of their skill as a player, rather than simply the character skill treadmill. Where PvE battles are as enthralling and challenging as their PvP counterparts, and where the environment is as deadly and foreboding as the villainous PKers who inhabit it. A game with racial warfare and unique racial traits, as well as (finally!) a meaningful alignment system. Unique characters developed by an individual’s preference, able to be adapted to changing needs and desires, rather than the homogenous master-of-all-styles that every competitive player now uses, and is encouraged to use by the limitless skill system. A game with minimal grind, where ‘learning by doing’ would be just as effective in the long run as ultra-grinding skills. That may be true in Darkfall, but “the long run” measures in years rather than a few weeks. Can you even imagine getting weapon mastery without hours and hours of unproductive swinging? I really don’t like to think about it.

 

>My god, that’s a lot of thought crammed into one paragraph. What the author just re-wrote or carried over from the DF site is similar to any mmo’s marketing and promotional fluff found similarly with any of the other overly-hyped mmos by their marketing grunt. Neither UO or SW:G are sandboxes, and either is DF a true sandbox since it lacks many environmental pales and shovels to truly shape the virtual environment are lacking, not to mention that the sandbox term has been so misused for so long, and re-instated by others personal opinions as to what it means, that every person has their own personal spin on, well, what it means.

um.  didn't you say you weren't going to copy blah blah ramblings (my paraphrase).  um, what are you rambling on about?  make a point (for once).

 

The fact is that Darkfall made grand promises and delivered hollow stand-ins for those promises. It is, in essence, an FPS in an open world setting, and with lootable items. The primary difference between Darkfall and the standard shooter, aside from the obvious full-loot mechanic, is that there’s no team balancing, no real objective other than “find some other guys and rape ‘em”, and a lot more downtime between bouts of combat. Everything else is ancillary and shoddily created.

 

>If the author is looking for balance and hand-outs to compensate for lack of skill, then this is the wrong game.

yup, i'm convinced you don't play darkfall at all.  what EXACTLY does this have to do with grand promises and hollow stand-ins?

That’s the only thing that comes to mind since he/she admits to having played for almost 9 hours a day for 3 months or so, I cant help but imagine that he/she couldn’t have the character skill to withstand the combative nature of the game. And to suggest that the nature of the game simmers down to finding other guys and combating them, well, that is one of several cornerstones of the game regardless of how you go about doing it.

 are you reading and replying to ANYTHING you've put in white?  i can't imagine where you come up with most of your replies... it's surely not replying to what you quote.  and this response, clearly shows you do not understand what the white text is speaking of...  any idea the list of grand promises (features perhaps?)

>Aside from that, I am no more disappointed at the DF team than I was at the AoC team for grand promises to bait you into their game, but the difference is that there is so much player-driven content and ability to get involved within DF, that it has kept me distracted from many of the short-falls that might have pushed me out of another mmo.

 what player-driven content?  can you give an example at least ONCE of the generic statements you throw out?  isn't this what you complained about in the beginning of your post?  oy.

The Dev team is, honestly, a group of people with good ideas and shitty execution of those ideas, headed up by a man who is frankly a reprehensible liar.

>I have little appreciation for AV, but the content they delivered, admittedly falling way short of expectation, is still the best team and competitive guild-based game platform driven by a player ecosystem on the market, aside from EvE imho.

 do not EVER, under any circumstances -- directly compare darkfall, and eve online, by name - EVER.  you should go back and edit this portion.  your comment could not be farther from the truth if you tried.

>DF can only last for as long as the current player-base interest is maintained and then for as long as the political in-game landscape constinues to evolve. If that landscape evolves to fewer but larger factions and alliances, then we’ll have the biggest empty pve mmo on the market. However, for now, its challenges and open design is still keeping my interest.

 should i assume you've completely given up on ever replying to anything you've pasted?  and/or that you're just never going to play darkfall?

The rest of the authors bloviating is nothing more than continued drivel and boo hoo, but as his/her points remain the same, so do mine.

 um, you've disputed nothing.  you've replied to .. i have no idea what, but definitely not to anything you've quoted.  and if we're going to talk about QQ... after this post... seriously, don't bring up QQ/whine/drivel/etc.   NOT EVAH!

 

 

 

i give this post a firm FOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOFOOFOFOFO rating.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

 Wall of orange disgrace.

Wall of red ownage
 

Cant resist but how long you did write it?

Originally posted by drDamage

 /quote do not EVER, under any circumstances -- directly compare darkfall, and eve online, by name - EVER. you should go back and edit this portion. your comment could not be farther from the truth if you tried.

/endquote

So now we getting closer to the truth damian7 and helmoob are bumsy twins that that prefer a more sci fi scenario, so they play EVE ( perhaps THE most boring MMO to ever get a subscriber) and when they are bored of the UBER gathering in EVE and ass raping guys at the jump gate they log off and go craft in WOW so they can make REALLY uber duber unique crap. Then when they run out of the materials they won at the AH they go do some really serious PVP and beat the crap out of some Horde scum.

I could only dream(or is that a drug induced halucination) to be this awesome someday...

I'm pretty sure damian7's comment was made because EvE is a well done sandbox game with meaningful PvP and an actual player economy.  Things that Darkfall were supposed to have and comparing Darkfall to EvE is an insult to the great sandbox game EvE is... Maybe?

Also the only comment either of them made about WoW was that it has better gathering than Darkfall, which it does.  So what exactly was the point of the second part of your post?

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by Hellmoob

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin                                         --WALL OF STUPID--

 

You spent HOW long writing this, and it was the best you could do? THIS was the BEST you could do? Oh my.

1. I don't just play the game, I interact with other people. As an ex-member of Murder Herd,

stop right there. MH has been non-existent in this game.

 

You lose and have lost. If you spent that much time with MH, its not wonder why your bitter....you guys couldnt play the damn game and spent most of your time macroing.

ohh..edit...it took me as long to respond to your lameness as it did to stop laughing for enough time to respond to this one.

Oh man, I am even more confused. So now it is not only "you played to little/played to much to have a negative opinion of the game", but we now add "can't take your opinion seriously because you belong to the wrong guild"???

Forget it, I'd rather go back to WoW...

Please, do go back to wow....i loved wow for the first 6 months as i leveled up my hunter, but DF isnt WoW and though as i stated multiple times on this forum that it certainly has less than i wanted in at launch, there is more to offer me with it's a player-driven environment and very similar mmo aspects i appreciated from pve games, to keep my interest.