Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by madeux

 Then perhaps Bob needs to make some personal decisions about where he is gaining his self worth.  If he is always basing it on the actions of others, Bob will never be happy.

Bob needs to learn to just take some satisfaction in a job well done.  :)

 

Maybe it's Ed that needs to learn that rewards for any endeavor are not bought but earned. Satisfaction for a job well done is the cake. The rewards that job well done earns is is the icing.

 

Maybe Bob should live his own life, and let Ed do the same.

 

Maybe human beings should stop being human? I don't think that will ever happen nor should it.

Yes, and they should never evaluate themselves and their faults, and they should certainly never try to better themselves.  That can only lead to bad things.

I don't understand what you get out of buying your way to the top in a video game.  Isn't the idea of a game to actually play it?  I really hope RMT doesn't turn MMORPG's into a collector hobby.

Let's say I started a new game with RMT, I go out and buy a max level character with all the best items in the game.  Now what?

In most P2P PvE games that's the point I unsubscribe and move onto another game.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Actually you can't. They'll confiscate it an everything else you own after you lose the court case from the 5,000 lawyers they'll put on your ass. It is a unique historical artifact.

Someone is obviously not a juris doctor.  I've agreed with your posts before, Zymu, but this is just silly and wrong on so many counts.

 

 

It's literally protected by law. You can look it up. It's trademarked, copywrited, and registered as a Indiana State and National treasure and God knows what else.  You can't even use a picture of it without permission.

Use in what context?  That's what you really need to know.  It's copyright, by the way, and where the heck does the concept of a "national treasure" factor into discussion regarding a trophy?  You're just making stuff up.  Telling people to look up stuff you've made up is kind of silly, don't you think?  That's something you ought to do before spouting it as a fact.

Originally posted by madeux

 

Yes, and they should never evaluate themselves and their faults, and they should certainly never try to better themselves.  That can only lead to bad things.

Because removing the incentive for achievement so we can have universal equality of outcome guaranteed makes us better people. I remember an entire dysfunctional Empire built upon that utopian ideal. It began collapsing in 1985 and we're still dealing with the aftershocks.

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Actually you can't. They'll confiscate it an everything else you own after you lose the court case from the 5,000 lawyers they'll put on your ass. It is a unique historical artifact.

Someone is obviously not a juris doctor.  I've agreed with your posts before, Zymu, but this is just silly and wrong on so many counts.

 

 

It's literally protected by law. You can look it up. It's trademarked, copywrited, and registered as a Indiana State and National treasure and God knows what else.  You can't even use a picture of it without permission.

Use in what context?  That's what you really need to know.  It's copyright, by the way, and where the heck does the concept of a "national treasure" factor into discussion regarding a trophy?  You're just making stuff up.  Telling people to look up stuff you've made up is kind of silly, don't you think?  That's something you ought to do before spouting it as a fact.

Look it up, seriously. It has every protection under law the Statue of Liberty does and then some. You can't commercially use the words Borg-Warner Trophy without permission. Not the name not the likeness nothing. In nearly any context. Look up the legal protections accorded to National Treasures.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Actually you can't. They'll confiscate it an everything else you own after you lose the court case from the 5,000 lawyers they'll put on your ass. It is a unique historical artifact.

Someone is obviously not a juris doctor.  I've agreed with your posts before, Zymu, but this is just silly and wrong on so many counts.

 

 

It's literally protected by law. You can look it up. It's trademarked, copywrited, and registered as a Indiana State and National treasure and God knows what else.  You can't even use a picture of it without permission.

Use in what context?  That's what you really need to know.  It's copyright, by the way, and where the heck does the concept of a "national treasure" factor into discussion regarding a trophy?  You're just making stuff up.  Telling people to look up stuff you've made up is kind of silly, don't you think?  That's something you ought to do before spouting it as a fact.

 

Look it up, seriously. It has every protection under law the Statue of Liberty does and then some. You can't commercially use the words Borg-Warner Trophy without permission. Not the name not the likeness nothing. In nearly any context. Look up the legal protections accorded to National Treasures.

Who said anything about commercial use?  Read the first question I posted directly above.  Sorry, but the discussion fails at this point.

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Actually you can't. They'll confiscate it an everything else you own after you lose the court case from the 5,000 lawyers they'll put on your ass. It is a unique historical artifact.

Someone is obviously not a juris doctor.  I've agreed with your posts before, Zymu, but this is just silly and wrong on so many counts.

 

 

It's literally protected by law. You can look it up. It's trademarked, copywrited, and registered as a Indiana State and National treasure and God knows what else.  You can't even use a picture of it without permission.

Use in what context?  That's what you really need to know.  It's copyright, by the way, and where the heck does the concept of a "national treasure" factor into discussion regarding a trophy?  You're just making stuff up.  Telling people to look up stuff you've made up is kind of silly, don't you think?  That's something you ought to do before spouting it as a fact.

 

Look it up, seriously. It has every protection under law the Statue of Liberty does and then some. You can't commercially use the words Borg-Warner Trophy without permission. Not the name not the likeness nothing. In nearly any context. Look up the legal protections accorded to National Treasures.

Who said anything about commercial use?  Read the first question I posted directly above.  Sorry, but the discussion fails at this point.

You guys are straying further and further away from the original discussion just so you can win an argument. Why not take that argument to PMs?. I doubt anybody on the forums will read it and go..yeah that guy is right and play referee.

Let's get this discussion back on topic instead of having it derailed by battling egos.

Imo, if you dont have a huge amount of freetime, MMO's aren't for you anyways. At least I stopped playing when I got a new job and work at least 12h/day (like to read about some games when i come home tho).

Yes... but no.  Yes, differences in time to play are un-balancing BUT there is a difference between imbalance due to the circumstances of life, and imbalance created, fostered and encouraged by the company that runs the game.

For example, in a race, one runner is faster than the other. That doesn't mean its ok for the race organizer to sell head-starts.

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Actually you can't. They'll confiscate it an everything else you own after you lose the court case from the 5,000 lawyers they'll put on your ass. It is a unique historical artifact.

Someone is obviously not a juris doctor.  I've agreed with your posts before, Zymu, but this is just silly and wrong on so many counts.

 

 

It's literally protected by law. You can look it up. It's trademarked, copywrited, and registered as a Indiana State and National treasure and God knows what else.  You can't even use a picture of it without permission.

Use in what context?  That's what you really need to know.  It's copyright, by the way, and where the heck does the concept of a "national treasure" factor into discussion regarding a trophy?  You're just making stuff up.  Telling people to look up stuff you've made up is kind of silly, don't you think?  That's something you ought to do before spouting it as a fact.

 

Look it up, seriously. It has every protection under law the Statue of Liberty does and then some. You can't commercially use the words Borg-Warner Trophy without permission. Not the name not the likeness nothing. In nearly any context. Look up the legal protections accorded to National Treasures.

Who said anything about commercial use?  Read the first question I posted directly above.  Sorry, but the discussion fails at this point.

 

You guys are straying further and further away from the original discussion just so you can win an argument. Why not take that argument to PMs?. I doubt anybody on the forums will read it and go..yeah that guy is right and play referee.

Let's get this discussion back on topic instead of having it derailed by battling egos.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Fibsdk

RMT is a whole other issue that can't be compared with time. Time for most of us is free..money isn't. A gamer that can't put in the hours to get better gear than those that can shouldn't be able to obtain the same level of gear period.

I don't know what world you live in, but my time is far more valuable then money. Obviously you take your time for granted, you must have an abundance of free time, lucky you.

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Actually you can't. They'll confiscate it an everything else you own after you lose the court case from the 5,000 lawyers they'll put on your ass. It is a unique historical artifact.

Someone is obviously not a juris doctor.  I've agreed with your posts before, Zymu, but this is just silly and wrong on so many counts.

 

 

It's literally protected by law. You can look it up. It's trademarked, copywrited, and registered as a Indiana State and National treasure and God knows what else.  You can't even use a picture of it without permission.

Use in what context?  That's what you really need to know.  It's copyright, by the way, and where the heck does the concept of a "national treasure" factor into discussion regarding a trophy?  You're just making stuff up.  Telling people to look up stuff you've made up is kind of silly, don't you think?  That's something you ought to do before spouting it as a fact.

 

Look it up, seriously. It has every protection under law the Statue of Liberty does and then some. You can't commercially use the words Borg-Warner Trophy without permission. Not the name not the likeness nothing. In nearly any context. Look up the legal protections accorded to National Treasures.

Who said anything about commercial use?  Read the first question I posted directly above.  Sorry, but the discussion fails at this point.

Read the paragraph. Nearly any context.  For the specifics you'll have to consult the applicable laws.

The point is, again, that anything anyone can simply buy off the shelf for a nominal price is in no way special. Things that are earned through extraordinary skill or effort are. To sell such things to those who did not earn them devalues them in everyone's eyes.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Yes... but no.  Yes, differences in time to play are un-balancing BUT there is a difference between imbalance due to the circumstances of life, and imbalance created, fostered and encouraged by the company that runs the game.

What is the balance that you desire, and what would it benefit the maker of the game to have that particular kind of balance?  I can only hypothesize as to what the balance you're looking for is, but if I do understand it correctly, there are a lot of games that are quite successful and allow for what you are calling an imbalance.

Do people really want a "level playing field" in a game, and if so, why?  Is it just an idealistic sense of egalitarianism, or are they looking for something they don't feel they're getting out of real life?

Originally posted by protoroc

Originally posted by Fibsdk

RMT is a whole other issue that can't be compared with time. Time for most of us is free..money isn't. A gamer that can't put in the hours to get better gear than those that can shouldn't be able to obtain the same level of gear period.

 

I don't know what world you live in, but my time is far more valuable then money. Obviously you take your time for granted, you must have an abundance of free time, lucky you.

I have as much time as the next guy. I just choose to spend my recreational time in games. When I'm off work my time does not = money

As for RMT. There is a place for it. I believe in having options for everybody..just not necessarily in the same game. We should have games with RMT and we should have games without. The problem is when the most anticipated games announce they will include RMT then us that have looked forward to the title and want no part in a game with RMT will face a major letdown. Do we really need RMT for a game to be fun? MMORPGS have been fun way before RMT came along.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by zymurgeist

 Actually you can't. They'll confiscate it an everything else you own after you lose the court case from the 5,000 lawyers they'll put on your ass. It is a unique historical artifact.

Someone is obviously not a juris doctor.  I've agreed with your posts before, Zymu, but this is just silly and wrong on so many counts.

 

 

It's literally protected by law. You can look it up. It's trademarked, copywrited, and registered as a Indiana State and National treasure and God knows what else.  You can't even use a picture of it without permission.

Use in what context?  That's what you really need to know.  It's copyright, by the way, and where the heck does the concept of a "national treasure" factor into discussion regarding a trophy?  You're just making stuff up.  Telling people to look up stuff you've made up is kind of silly, don't you think?  That's something you ought to do before spouting it as a fact.

 

Look it up, seriously. It has every protection under law the Statue of Liberty does and then some. You can't commercially use the words Borg-Warner Trophy without permission. Not the name not the likeness nothing. In nearly any context. Look up the legal protections accorded to National Treasures.

Who said anything about commercial use?  Read the first question I posted directly above.  Sorry, but the discussion fails at this point.

 

Read the paragraph. Nearly any context.  For the specifics you'll have to consult the applicble laws.

 

The point is, again, that anything anyone can simply buy ff the shelf for a nominal price is in no way special. Things that are earned through extraordinary skill or effort are. To sell such things to those who did not earn them devalues them in everyone's eyes.

Here's a link to the Illinois statutes -

.  If you feel a portion of it applies to this discussion, feel free to link it.  Why do you feel the playing field has to be leveled in game in the way that you desire?  There are a lot of games out there where it isn't, and they're quite successful.

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by dhayes68

Yes... but no.  Yes, differences in time to play are un-balancing BUT there is a difference between imbalance due to the circumstances of life, and imbalance created, fostered and encouraged by the company that runs the game.

What is the balance that you desire, and what would it benefit the maker of the game to have that particular kind of balance?  I can only hypothesize as to what the balance you're looking for is, but if I do understand it correctly, there are a lot of games that are quite successful and allow for what you are calling an imbalance.

Do people really want a "level playing field" in a game, and if so, why?  Is it just an idealistic sense of egalitarianism, or are they looking for something they don't feel they're getting out of real life?

I'd edited my original post so maybe you didn't see it, but I added this: For example, in a race, one runner is faster than the other. That doesn't mean its ok for the race organizer to sell head-starts.

I'm not looking for a universal playing field, but the game organizer/provider should offer a level playing field for the players. Any imbalance that comes after that from the players own circumstances is just life.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by dhayes68

Yes... but no.  Yes, differences in time to play are un-balancing BUT there is a difference between imbalance due to the circumstances of life, and imbalance created, fostered and encouraged by the company that runs the game.

What is the balance that you desire, and what would it benefit the maker of the game to have that particular kind of balance?  I can only hypothesize as to what the balance you're looking for is, but if I do understand it correctly, there are a lot of games that are quite successful and allow for what you are calling an imbalance.

Do people really want a "level playing field" in a game, and if so, why?  Is it just an idealistic sense of egalitarianism, or are they looking for something they don't feel they're getting out of real life?

I'd edited my original post so maybe you didn't see it, but I added this: For example, in a race, one runner is faster than the other. That doesn't mean its ok for the race organizer to sell head-starts.

I'm not looking for a universal playing field, but the game organizer/provider should offer a level playing field for the players. Any imbalance that comes after that from the players own circumstances is just life.

But this is not a race, and there are no winners.

How about a Golf analogy?  We're just factoring in player handicaps! :p

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by protoroc

Originally posted by Fibsdk

RMT is a whole other issue that can't be compared with time. Time for most of us is free..money isn't. A gamer that can't put in the hours to get better gear than those that can shouldn't be able to obtain the same level of gear period.

 

I don't know what world you live in, but my time is far more valuable then money. Obviously you take your time for granted, you must have an abundance of free time, lucky you.

 

I have as much time as the next guy. I just choose to spend my recreational time in games. When I'm off work my time does not = money

This is off topic and seriously you guys wasted a whole page on RMT debate when the topic is about TIME and not RMT.

Anyways, the average American spends 9 hours working (+lunch), 8 hours sleeping, 1 hour commute to work and back, 1 hour dinner (prep/eating/cleanup), 1 hour hygiene, 1 hour of unwind time, that leaves 4 hours in the day, which you can choose to do something productive such as errands/chores/homework or recreations like TV and games. I could use 4 more hours in my day and I bet many a working man would agree with me.

Originally posted by madeux

But this is not a race, and there are no winners.

If that's the case then you just made a point against RMT. Why have RMT since there is no competition. People shouldn't feel a need to buy themselves to the top since that epic geared warrior is not in competition to you.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by bmdevine

Originally posted by dhayes68

Yes... but no.  Yes, differences in time to play are un-balancing BUT there is a difference between imbalance due to the circumstances of life, and imbalance created, fostered and encouraged by the company that runs the game.

What is the balance that you desire, and what would it benefit the maker of the game to have that particular kind of balance?  I can only hypothesize as to what the balance you're looking for is, but if I do understand it correctly, there are a lot of games that are quite successful and allow for what you are calling an imbalance.

Do people really want a "level playing field" in a game, and if so, why?  Is it just an idealistic sense of egalitarianism, or are they looking for something they don't feel they're getting out of real life?

I'd edited my original post so maybe you didn't see it, but I added this: For example, in a race, one runner is faster than the other. That doesn't mean its ok for the race organizer to sell head-starts.

I'm not looking for a universal playing field, but the game organizer/provider should offer a level playing field for the players. Any imbalance that comes after that from the players own circumstances is just life.

But this is not a race, and there are no winners.

How about a Golf analogy?  We're just factoring in player handicaps! :p

In my analogy the race equates competition. And there are winners.  There are goals and rewards for completing those goals. Thats winning.  To take it to golf, what if the pga said, sold stroke erasers?