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Originally posted by trike
I completely agree about the "graphic novel/comic book" comparison. That is, quite frankly, astonishingly ignorant of an entire medium. It's like saying driving a new BMW reminds you more of driving an automobile rather than a car. Or the new Terminator movie reminds you more of a film than a movie. Perhaps the writer should do a wee bit of research, and maybe look up the word "synonym."
The reviewers comment make total sense. In the Standard comic book fare, not a specialized singe series, but your usual run of the mill comic book there is a general and recognized art style. When they do Graphic novels they usually use a different style as a tool to emphasize something, gritty art work to show a dark and dangerous world, hard angular lines or many other tricks to further accentuate the artwork. The reviewer is saying CoX was like your regular comic book, standard and easily recognizable, Champs on the other hand changes the art work slightly giving it a familiar but distinctive look, much like a standard series comic and a graphic novel |
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Originally posted by syllvenwood
The reviewers comment make total sense. In the Standard comic book fare, not a specialized singe series, but your usual run of the mill comic book there is a general and recognized art style. When they do Graphic novels they usually use a different style as a tool to emphasize something, gritty art work to show a dark and dangerous world, hard angular lines or many other tricks to further accentuate the artwork. The reviewer is saying CoX was like your regular comic book, standard and easily recognizable, Champs on the other hand changes the art work slightly giving it a familiar but distinctive look, much like a standard series comic and a graphic novel
And the reviewers intent was completely obvious, unless you're trolling and just looking for something to pick at. I'm all for being critical, but the negativity so often seen here is disturbing. "The reviewer said something wrong, so this game is going to suck!! Everybody run!!!!" |
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Lazarus71
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 9/22/04
Sun Tzu: He who wishes to fight must first count the cost. |
Originally posted by Seridove
Sadly, I was unable to actually experience the pvp elements of the game..hopefully in the future I'll be able to. This was a very limited first impression, and we're hoping to get more information to you all later with regards to further end game play and pvp! Oh and Lazarus.... "I think what they meant is, you actually have to move to position your character as maybe it doesn't auto position you. For example, you have a guy thats 20 ft away, and you try and use a "smash" ability.. they may be saying, when you use "smash" it doesn't walk you up to them and position you close enough to make the attack. Again this is just speculation on what she may have meant." Thank you for that clarification...your response was dead on. Wasn't me who wrote that Seridove. Lets just say though I won't disagree with the above thought he stated. |
Originally posted by hidden1 I can deal with lag issues if it's twitched based targetting. I enjoy that more than playing a boring point-n-click (or Tab) to auto-lock on a target. I would imagine it would have the same problems Hellgate had, as server desyncs would cause mobs to appear far away on your screen, while in fact they were right next to your character, scoring one-hit critical kills. However this didn't bother me much, and I played in Hardcore mode (meaning one life, you die, you loose your toon and have to reroll it to level 1 again). It has to be understood by the gamers out there that twitch-based action, though it is fun, will have it's problems with syncronizing all the elements such as players, players in parites, and mob AI and movement. This also occurs in Neocron, though not to the extent as in Hellgate. Also, and so I've heard from a friend, that this does not happen at all in Fallen Earth, or that he hasn't noticed it yet. Ultimately, lag and server sync issues will occur, but the real question is if Champion's network code is up to the task of handling it in a way that isn't too destructive and/or detremental to gameplay. I hope for their sakes it handles it "seemlessly" and not use techniques such as aukward, and periodic pausing to allow for sync'ing of information and data packets.
I don't share your preferences. My internet connection works 99% of the time. It's that 1% that's a pain in the ass. And most of the time that 1% happens at the worst moment. CoX does a good job adapting to lag, but a twitch game does not. I do NOT find twitch games to be very fun. If you're off by a second, you're toast and not everyone has the hardware to do that. This sounds like you can be taken down by a spot of bad luck. No thanks, that's too hardcore for me. |
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DeserttFoxx
 Advanced Member
Joined: 5/11/04
Cry Havok; and let loose the dogs of war. Acta Non Verba |
Champions online is NOT twich based.
The ability to block just allows you to cut down damage on big moves, you can also dodge certain boss attacks, but dont go into the game expecting it to be counter strike with a cape. There is a lot more interactivity in combat then the average MMO but dont let the idea of faster paced combat scare you away from this title. Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come... ----- How come the people who hate World of Warcraft, never realize they are the minority? -------- |
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Apostle
Novice Member
Joined: 10/01/04
It doesn't matter if you win or lose. What matters is whether "I" win or lose. |
What pisses me off about that review was the totally unfounded bias toward the 'all mighty console gamer'. In my own first hand experience, console gamers suck at mmo's in comparison to keyboard/mouse players when thrown into a fully implemented interface that takes advantage of the keyboard/mouse. Granted, games such as FFIX which is designed from the ground up to be a console platform feel much more comfortable and is easier to use.
The statements lauding the ability to be on easy mode if you happen to have a console gaming background is rather off. The reviewer could have just as easily stated "If you have half a brain and dont dive into content w/out taking a half a second to think first' then you will be just fine. It just ticks me off that he associates common sense with having a console gamer background. |
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*hides boner* A physics engine? Even more detail to costumes than CoX? What I want to know is whether or not the zones are wide open. Can anyone elaborate? My househould is impatiently waiting for this to drop. I can see us playing this for 3 years + like we did Heroes. Can't wait!
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Originally posted by purewitz
I can't wait for the NDA to be lifted too. So I could tell you how the game is. If you haven't guessed, I'm a preview tester for Champions Online.
Yes there are some good and some bad. At least they are listening enough to know the game needs more polishing. They pushed the release date back. =)
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Wow, I wish we were testing the same game the author was previewing. I can't wait for them to finally lift the NDA, this thread would easily be up to 50+ pages by now. Sadly my guess is that the NDA will be in place for a looooooong time still. I would bet it's in place till August 20th at the earliest, assuming they don't decide to push the date back again.
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Originally posted by Yamota
Well they don't have to write elaborate descriptions about PvP but like maybe mention that it exists or not? And if so, is it in the forms of arenas, duels, zones? Whatever, the word PvP didn't even exist in the whole article and that alone I would say be enough to write of this "preview" as biased against PvP because they didn't even bother to mention it. Well it was a limited hands on. Maybe pvp doesn't come into play until later levels. Playing: EvE, Ryzom |
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Originally posted by JGMIII
Because it's easy to please pvpers, add decent combat and give players a reason to fight like intanced pvp or some world pvp objective and they bash eachothers faces in for months. It's much harder to please the pve guys that rush through all content right to the buggy untested endgame and bitch about it lacking content and stuff like that. People that care about shit like quests and pve progression far outwieght those that enjoy pvp (which sucks for someone like me). because of this most quick first looks focus on pve stuff. I tend to disagree that instanced pvp is favorable, the more open the better, I'd think, but purpose, absolutely. Having experienced the poor impressions and lack of immersion and limiting nature i came away with about instanced pvp in potbs and war, i'd rather not see it instanced. |
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I think the only things that kind of bother me so far about the game are the words "instance" being so prevalent and the term PvP being pretty non-existent in the reviews and previews of the game. I agree with whoever mentioned it, that heavy instance games just keep people from playing together in groups. Fine for a solo player, but then why are you playing an MMO if you only want to play solo anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose of playing with other people, doesn't it? Pretty much the same with PvP. What's the point of playing with thousands of other people if you can't test your character against theirs? I know *I* for one don't want to play a game to "bunny bash" for months so I can claim I'm the best bunny-basher around. Wheee, look at me. I killed a cow. |
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Originally posted by Yamota
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP. Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. |
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Originally posted by Nightbringe1
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up |
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Originally posted by Yamota Can you base some study/ proof or the such to back up your claim that PVP "is one of the biggest aspects of MMORPG"s"? Or are you just posting your opinion as fact?
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Originally posted by qbangy32
Actually, the did stay on with the CoH for quite a while before moving on. As they developed it, they did bring it to the market . How could it get to the market without being created? You are right, they did not "market" the game. They abandoned/sold out of CoH because they thought that they were going to be part of something bigger - a Marvel Online game. As far as I can decern, when Marvel dropped the idea of releasing an MMORPG, Cryptic had to do something to do with the work that they had already done. (if someone else has inside info on this, I would be glad to hear it) Too bad that work had nothing to do with the excelent gaming system which is Champions the RPG. I think to some extent Cryptic has begun to realize what some people expect when the Champions name is stuck on something. Cryptic created CoH left it to try to make more money doing something else rather than supporting CoX (I guess they thought it would flop without them?) and have made a mockery of Champions RPG as far as I'm concerned. If it really was Champoins the RPG online, I would be here backing it like crazy. Be the fire! Stop staring at it! |
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Originally posted by racasdorph
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. |
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Originally posted by Nightbringe1
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
I would recommend starting with Step #4, as it will make steps 1, 2, and 3 significantly less difficult. |
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maskedweasel
Elite Member
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
Originally posted by racasdorph
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Personally, I enjoy PvP ONLY if its good PvP. CoX was not good PvP, whereas I felt guildwars and Warhammer had good PvP. CoX didn't originally have PvP in mind and it was thrown in... and you can clearly tell it was thrown in. After the launch of CoV there were many powerset balance problems which most games have, but I feel CoX's were self imposed. They tried to play the "balance" game, which CO just won't be doing. They stated there will be some powersets that are just more powerful then others, but there won't be a single "Ultimate build"
More questions answered (As best as I can): JGMIII "Well it was a limited hands on. Maybe pvp doesn't come into play until later levels." Supposedly you can level pretty much from start to finish through PvP in arenas and so forth. They leave it as the players option, although I'm not sure if testers, or how many testers, would play this way as the game is Primarily a PvE game. I would also imagine Cryptic would rather players test the vast levels and missions while testing rather then spend their whole time in PvP-centric areas. Reno0513 "I agree with whoever mentioned it, that heavy instance games just keep people from playing together in groups. Fine for a solo player, but then why are you playing an MMO if you only want to play solo anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose of playing with other people, doesn't it?" I won't lie in saying that everything I've heard so far about this game has made me happy. There are a number of issues I've found with this game just by reading dev posts, blogs, and leaked player experiences. What I will tell you as far as instances go, from what I'm to understand, not every world is "instanced" so much as "zoned" The difference being that a game like guildwars would be instanced, where a game like CoH would be "zoned" Now the zones have been said to be huge enough and have so much content that you could potentially level from 1 - max level (40) without leaving that zone. Dr.Rock What I really want to know is can you jump out of the way of a thrown or fired projectile if you are fast enough, as I am sick to death of simple LoS checks and homing projectiles. Without this a bit of twitch in positioning or blocking will still leave ranged fighters limited, as their mobility and ability to take cover are effectively ignored. Not sure I could play a MMO still limited by the CoX being shot through a wall scenario From what I'm to understand the game uses LoS checks (line of sight) as you mention, but to what degree is yet to be confirmed. For example, could hiding behind a larger teammate make him the target instead of you? Hmm, I'm not sure, but this is definitely a question to be answered by a developer, or something to wait on when the NDA has lifted. I can say from what I'm to believe, the LoS has been severely tightened so it plays more like a TPS then the old CoH. As far as dodge and blocks, you are inherently given those powers from your power sets. Maybe it calculates positioning plus skill or maybe not. I'm not sure. I can tell you that you can mix and match defensive powers such as Regeneration/Super Reflexes which may help some and make some fights more interesting. Dis_Ordur "What I want to know is whether or not the zones are wide open. Can anyone elaborate?" I answered this partially above, about the size of each zone. The zones are said to be immense, each zone allowing you to use the full extent of your travel powers. However, there will still be a transit system to move from zone A to zone B, as the zones themselves are all over the place. First you might be in Lemuria (under water) or be in the Canadian Wilderness, so you won't see Zones like.. "chunks" in vanguard or anything like that. Now will there be a long loading screen between which? That I can't answer right now. Hope that helps!
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Originally posted by maskedweasel
I don't have anything against games being designed for PvP play, to each his own. Champions is not, however, being touted as having a pvp focus. It seems to be very much focused on PvE, with acknowlegements made from the begining that the classes are not balanced for PvP. As such, I have no expectation of the game being reviewed from a PvP standpoint. I responded as I did to the individual blasting the review as he seems to be under the impression that PvP should be treated as a central aspect of all games, even those not promoting themselves as primarily PvP. Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. |
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Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
So CO is not twitch based but it does depend on you mashing the right button or shoving the joystick the right way at the right instant in time. That's like saying, "I didn't drive home from work in a car, I drove home in a motorized 4 wheeled vehicle smaller than a truck and SUV. But don't call it a car!" What you describe in your second paragraph fits the definition of a twitch based game; the timing of when you do things matters more here than non-twitch games. |
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Originally posted by WereTech
Here here! Champions is a great system and their 5th edition setting is better than most game settings I've experienced. What Cryptic is doing is just WRONG. It's like when you're a kid and your mother tells you to let the new kid down the street (you know the one who's 10 years old, drools and still wears diapers, and whos house is strangely empty of pets) play with your new toy then watch him slam it against the wall as hard as he can until it breaks into 3 pieces. And you're the one in trouble for making him cry. |
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ArcAngel3
 Elite Member
Joined: 9/25/06
What makes a good MMO? Good quality, good customer service, good business model, good fun. |
Originally posted by Shreddi
Cant you use 2nd build or respec? Respec gives you a good amount of money for unused enhancements. Sorry to hear your experience. I love cox. This game will probably be very similar.
Good of you to check that out actually, thanks for the thought. The game just changed too much for me with the removal of travel powers in the PvP zones. You know, superjumpers can't superjump, teleporters can't teleport, superspeed powers are no longer super fast--and all the enhancement sets in those powers are now junk, after working a long time to get them. That and how they brought in diminshing returns for heals, buffs and enhancement sets. It's just a different game as a result, and not one that I enjoy. I tried respecing, but couldn't get into the completely different gameplay. It's just not for me. Glad you like it though. I had some really good times. That said, this game might give me a chance to start fresh with a superhero MMO. I'd really like to try that out :) I hope Cryptic will shy away from massive revamps to a live game, but time will tell I guess. I'll enjoy the ride while I find it entertaining, and then get off if it stops being fun. |
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ArcAngel3
Elite Member
Joined: 9/25/06
What makes a good MMO? Good quality, good customer service, good business model, good fun. |
Originally posted by WereTech
Well tbh, graphic novels only very recently have become collections of comic book series. You know so that the comic company can sell the same stuff twice in a different package. Until this recent marketting trend, graphic novels were another genre; in my view with superior art. Some of these still exist mind you. The 300 graphic novel might be an example of the kind of comparison the review is making. That's just badass art, with a badass story based on an amazing historical event. Also, I don't see Cryptic bad-mouthing CoX, as you suggest. I see someone else (not Cryptic) writing a review. The different nature of the graphics between CoX and Champions online is pretty obvious I think. They're very different. At this point, I'm not sure which one I prefer, but I want to give the new game a try. That said, I enjoyed CoX for three years. Cryptic did some excellent work in that game, and it's still there. A lot of the now NCsoft staff were with Cryptic too I believe. Tbh, I think competition in the superhero genre is a good thing. NCsoft, Cryptic and SOE are going to have to compete for our patronage. Hopefully they'll feel inclined to bring their A-game to the table. If one of these companies puts out garbage, or treats their players poorly, gamers will have some other options. I like that. Choice is good. |
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I did not read the whole article because I don't have time... but i plan to soon.
I just want to say I am very excited for CO. |
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