Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by zidane01970

I don't agree with this, I use "WoW Clone" to describe these hundreds of mmos that use the same "Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat. That bores me to tears. WoW was the first one to notably do it, as it followed a lot of other generic systems too. "Generic RPG" systems, I personally like WoW, but I would love to see more real-time combat MMORPG. These Psuedo-turn based games so many companies seem to be making are getting extremely old to me.

 

That's the point of the entry. WoW was FAR from the first to do it.

 

Wasn't Everquest first? Hmm, certainly not Ultima. But I have the feeing there was something similar before Everquest and Asheron's Call...

Technically, you can trace it back forever, no doubt.

Most generally give EverQuest the first title. But that's just DIKU Muds done graphically, but nonetheless, I'm happy to give the badge to the first game to do it in 3D. It is responsible for most of the conventions of MMOs (hotbars, classes, static spawns, quests, radar, etc.).

Originally posted by Druz

Nice productive reply, by the way WoW Clone has never once assumed that WoW invented all of the mechanics that they have used so move along

Your "post" doesn't warrant any "productive" replies, sorry.

All it is going to do is invite ppls to flame you.

BTW...please go look at some of the WoW clone posts before you actually post something as brainless as this.

 I laughed pretty hard at this, but it was sadly because it's true.  Next up, the top 10 Overused Advertising Slogans for MMO's

"11 Million people play it, and they CAN'T be wrong"

"Intense PvP!"

"Play for FREE!!!"

"Epic Fantasy"

And many many more!

Originally posted by Dana

Technically, you can trace it back forever, no doubt.

Most generally give EverQuest the first title. But that's just DIKU Muds done graphically, but nonetheless, I'm happy to give the badge to the first game to do it in 3D. It is responsible for most of the conventions of MMOs (hotbars, classes, static spawns, quests, radar, etc.).

Yes, seems like that. Nothing to add here.

But what really surprised me and surprises me to this day, is that no big developer tried to create an isometric MMO like Ultima Online. I mean - this way of playing may be absolutely great, it gives really strategic view and could be much easier to create than those "in person" 3D worlds (probably). NwN did something like that, but it's not big eneough to be MMO. Concluding, it's funny that there's no real competition in MMO market to a game so old as Ultima Online is... That's really strange.

I remember how I dreamed that D&D MMORPG game would be done in UO way. With all those "traps", climbing on walls, hiding in shadows, vast are of effect spells and "sandbox", D&D-like gameplay. Something modern and done well could be interesting with this isometric view and top notch 3D graphics.

Just call it "Living Greyhawk" and I'm bought already - well, at least for a trial.

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by zidane01970

I don't agree with this, I use "WoW Clone" to describe these hundreds of mmos that use the same "Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat. That bores me to tears. WoW was the first one to notably do it, as it followed a lot of other generic systems too. "Generic RPG" systems, I personally like WoW, but I would love to see more real-time combat MMORPG. These Psuedo-turn based games so many companies seem to be making are getting extremely old to me.

 

That's the point of the entry. WoW was FAR from the first to do it.

 

Wasn't Everquest first? Hmm, certainly not Ultima. But I have the feeing there was something similar before Everquest and Asheron's Call...

 

Technically, you can trace it back forever, no doubt.

Most generally give EverQuest the first title. But that's just DIKU Muds done graphically, but nonetheless, I'm happy to give the badge to the first game to do it in 3D. It is responsible for most of the conventions of MMOs (hotbars, classes, static spawns, quests, radar, etc.).

Yea... sorry but AC and EQ were released nearly at the same time, I doubt they influenced each other and they both have those "conventions" you are talking about. And yet THEY'RE DIFFERENT GAMES.. one is not the clone of the other because we are not exactly talking about conventions, we're talking about the full game. *You can have the same conventions and end up as a completely different game* As AC and EQ is no doubt proof of.

WoW has used a lot of previous ideas mainly from AC2 in my point of view and knowing all of this I still tag some games as WoW clones... why is that? Because they are blatantly making a copy of WoW and putting their skin on it, it is that simple. Of course the people who started with WoW and call games like AoC or LoTRO WoW Clones are wrong. Pointing to EQ and AC and saying "look at these conventions! They're the same! surely WoWs a clone of EQ!" doesn't help your case, because WoW is not similar outside toolbars and classes - you aren't countering the argument... if you pointed to AC2 maybe you'd get somewhere.

Great article.  Seems more like a list of terms used "About mmo's" more than terms used "In mmo's".  If you're looking for terms used "In mmo's" look no further than the word "Noob".  That is a term that needs to die.

Originally posted by Druz

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by zidane01970

I don't agree with this, I use "WoW Clone" to describe these hundreds of mmos that use the same "Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat. That bores me to tears. WoW was the first one to notably do it, as it followed a lot of other generic systems too. "Generic RPG" systems, I personally like WoW, but I would love to see more real-time combat MMORPG. These Psuedo-turn based games so many companies seem to be making are getting extremely old to me.

 

That's the point of the entry. WoW was FAR from the first to do it.

 

Wasn't Everquest first? Hmm, certainly not Ultima. But I have the feeing there was something similar before Everquest and Asheron's Call...

 

Technically, you can trace it back forever, no doubt.

Most generally give EverQuest the first title. But that's just DIKU Muds done graphically, but nonetheless, I'm happy to give the badge to the first game to do it in 3D. It is responsible for most of the conventions of MMOs (hotbars, classes, static spawns, quests, radar, etc.).

Yea... sorry but AC and EQ were released nearly at the same time, I doubt they influenced each other and they both have those "conventions" you are talking about. And yet THEY'RE DIFFERENT GAMES.. one is not the clone of the other because we are not exactly talking about conventions, we're talking about the full game. *You can have the same conventions and end up as a completely different game* As AC and EQ is no doubt proof of.

WoW has used a lot of previous ideas mainly from AC2 in my point of view and knowing all of this I still tag some games as WoW clones... why is that? Because they are blatantly making a copy of WoW and putting their skin on it, it is that simple. Of course the people who started with WoW and call games like AoC or LoTRO WoW Clones are wrong. Pointing to EQ and AC and saying WoWs a clone of them doesn't help your case, because WoW is NOT a clone of them.. if you pointed to AC2 maybe you'd get somewhere.

I don't recall calling AC an EQ or WoW clone...

And dude, calm'er down and read what the article says. The word is overused by people who call any 3D MMO with hot bars a WoW clone. So, yes, I basically agree. When someone calls LotRO a WoW clone, they're full of it. That was the point of the entry.

We didn't say no one has ever or will ever actually clone WoW.

Originally posted by clwoods

Great article.  Seems more like a list of terms used "About mmo's" more than terms used "In mmo's".  If you're looking for terms used "In mmo's" look no further than the word "Noob".  That is a term that needs to die.

I agree, very derograty.  when does a noob become one of the lads/lasses.  I have played many many mmos and hate it more when I get called one for asking decent qs

Originally posted by Druz

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by zidane01970

I don't agree with this, I use "WoW Clone" to describe these hundreds of mmos that use the same "Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat. That bores me to tears. WoW was the first one to notably do it, as it followed a lot of other generic systems too. "Generic RPG" systems, I personally like WoW, but I would love to see more real-time combat MMORPG. These Psuedo-turn based games so many companies seem to be making are getting extremely old to me.

 

That's the point of the entry. WoW was FAR from the first to do it.

 

Wasn't Everquest first? Hmm, certainly not Ultima. But I have the feeing there was something similar before Everquest and Asheron's Call...

 

Technically, you can trace it back forever, no doubt.

Most generally give EverQuest the first title. But that's just DIKU Muds done graphically, but nonetheless, I'm happy to give the badge to the first game to do it in 3D. It is responsible for most of the conventions of MMOs (hotbars, classes, static spawns, quests, radar, etc.).

Yea... sorry but AC and EQ were released nearly at the same time, I doubt they influenced each other and they both have those "conventions" you are talking about. And yet THEY'RE DIFFERENT GAMES.. one is not the clone of the other because we are not exactly talking about conventions, we're talking about the full game. *You can have the same conventions and end up as a completely different game* As AC and EQ is no doubt proof of.

WoW has used a lot of previous ideas mainly from AC2 in my point of view and knowing all of this I still tag some games as WoW clones... why is that? Because they are blatantly making a copy of WoW and putting their skin on it, it is that simple. Of course the people who started with WoW and call games like AoC or LoTRO WoW Clones are wrong. Pointing to EQ and AC and saying WoWs a clone of them doesn't help your case, because WoW is NOT a clone of them.. if you pointed to AC2 maybe you'd get somewhere.

Pretty sure he's talking about the click to attack system which was introduced by EQ (3D version), and he is not calling WoW an EQ clone either, but you cannot deny that WoW took the Click to attack system. Now...take a deep breathe..and read the very first quote...What is the TC trying call WoW Clone as?? Now by that logic, does his claim of WoW Clone make sense? Thank you very much for coming out =)

Secondly, it is not wrong to call a game WoW Clone if the whole game is actually WoW with a different skin, but the term WoW Clone is being toss around on games that resembles a generic MMO and the arugment is always "This is a WOW Clone, WoW did it first!" Just like how zidane person is trying so hard to defend his position.

No need to get all defensive before you read the actual content.

Damn Dana beat me in a typing race =(

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Druz

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Sarr

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by zidane01970

I don't agree with this, I use "WoW Clone" to describe these hundreds of mmos that use the same "Click to Attack", and watch the fight style combat. That bores me to tears. WoW was the first one to notably do it, as it followed a lot of other generic systems too. "Generic RPG" systems, I personally like WoW, but I would love to see more real-time combat MMORPG. These Psuedo-turn based games so many companies seem to be making are getting extremely old to me.

 

That's the point of the entry. WoW was FAR from the first to do it.

 

Wasn't Everquest first? Hmm, certainly not Ultima. But I have the feeing there was something similar before Everquest and Asheron's Call...

 

Technically, you can trace it back forever, no doubt.

Most generally give EverQuest the first title. But that's just DIKU Muds done graphically, but nonetheless, I'm happy to give the badge to the first game to do it in 3D. It is responsible for most of the conventions of MMOs (hotbars, classes, static spawns, quests, radar, etc.).

Yea... sorry but AC and EQ were released nearly at the same time, I doubt they influenced each other and they both have those "conventions" you are talking about. And yet THEY'RE DIFFERENT GAMES.. one is not the clone of the other because we are not exactly talking about conventions, we're talking about the full game. *You can have the same conventions and end up as a completely different game* As AC and EQ is no doubt proof of.

WoW has used a lot of previous ideas mainly from AC2 in my point of view and knowing all of this I still tag some games as WoW clones... why is that? Because they are blatantly making a copy of WoW and putting their skin on it, it is that simple. Of course the people who started with WoW and call games like AoC or LoTRO WoW Clones are wrong. Pointing to EQ and AC and saying WoWs a clone of them doesn't help your case, because WoW is NOT a clone of them.. if you pointed to AC2 maybe you'd get somewhere.

 

I don't recall calling AC an EQ or WoW clone...

And dude, calm'er down and read what the article says. The word is overused by people who call any 3D MMO with hot bars a WoW clone. So, yes, I basically agree. When someone calls LotRO a WoW clone, they're full of it. That was the point of the entry.

We didn't say no one has ever or will ever actually clone WoW.

Yea I reread my post and fixed that part as it wasn't what I meant. The main part of my post was to tell you even though it's good to call those people out it is important to explain it the right way. It's easier to point to an older MMO that they haven't played and tell them WoW might as well be a clone of it but it's not the truth

Originally posted by fmaalex

+1

WoW clone bugs me the most...indeed ppls who got their MMO baptism from WoW seems to think every MMO that features mobs to kill, quest to do and weapons to craft is a WoW Clone. WoW may have combine the features successfully and in a way where it is difficult to beat, but it doesn't mean they "invented" the feature, but try and put that through a WoW "fanboi"'s head is more difficult that trying to understand Sarah Palin's speech.

Hey Druz, read my very first post on this thread. Good luck trying to convince those ppls that WoW was not the first ever MMO.

Originally posted by Druz

Yea I reread my post and fixed that part as it wasn't what I meant. The main part of my post was to tell you even though it's good to call those people out it is important to explain it the right way. It's easier to point to an older MMO that they haven't played and tell them WoW might as well be a clone of it but it's not the truth

Right, my post about the history stuff was a tangent off this thread.

Generally, two things get credited with "creating something." Whoever does it first and whoever is most popular.

I mean, you can argue that EQ is just a DIKUMud with a single player 3D RPG interface too ;) The point is, clearly EQ won the early war (AC/EQ/UO) and became the dominant "style" of MMO that most others emulated to some degree.

And clearly WoW is in that same school, and most new games do emulate WoW to some degree.

But being in the same school of thought/presentation does not a clone make.

No no no....and NO.  The most overused and misused word in MMOs is "potential".....as in "This game has potential".

Hell.....every game.....no, everyTHING in the world has potential.  If I keep typing, this post has the potential to be the worlds greatest novel.

Please.  By the time a game is released....it's either good, or it's not.  People that say a released game is "rough around the edges right now", but "has potential", are wrong.  I remember reading "potential" in the forums of Dark and Light, Horizons, Irth On-Line.....hehe.....yup.

Potential is a word for beta....not after release.

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by Druz

Yea I reread my post and fixed that part as it wasn't what I meant. The main part of my post was to tell you even though it's good to call those people out it is important to explain it the right way. It's easier to point to an older MMO that they haven't played and tell them WoW might as well be a clone of it but it's not the truth

 

Right, my post about the history stuff was a tangent off this thread.

Generally, two things get credited with "creating something." Whoever does it first and whoever is most popular.

I mean, you can argue that EQ is just a DIKUMud with a single player 3D RPG interface too ;) The point is, clearly EQ won the early war (AC/EQ/UO) and became the dominant "style" of MMO that most others emulated to some degree.

And clearly WoW is in that same school, and most new games do emulate WoW to some degree.

But being in the same school of thought/presentation does not a clone make.

Exactly, this is the kind of thing that needed to be in the article, though if you did the same to each misused word the article would no doubt be huge.

Originally posted by japo

No no no....and NO.  The most overused and misused word in MMOs is "potential".....as in "This game has potential".

 

Hell.....every game.....no, everyTHING in the world has potential.  If I keep typing, this post has the potential to be the worlds greatest novel.

 

Please.  By the time a game is released....it's either good, or it's not.  People that say a released game is "rough around the edges right now", but "has potential", are wrong.  I remember reading "potential" in the forums of Dark and Light, Horizons, Irth On-Line.....hehe.....yup.

 

Potential is a word for beta....not after release.

A game can have potential after release just like a NBA player can have potential after being drafted.

Potential is something the game/player is capable of or should be capable of based on their (for player: bodybuild, size, skill level, court vision) (for game: pvp system, crafting system, anything that is the "core" of the game) Improving on the core system is the job of the dev just as improving on the weaknesses is the job of a professional sports player. The word potential is not mis-used even after release as long as the game actually have a good core system that can be fun. Failure to achieve such potential can be due to crappy devs, lack of funding, etc.

Also..i fail to see the difference between what Dana said up there and the article, aside from using examples, anyone wanna enlighten me?

Excellent article! I agree with basically everything said.

Originally posted by japo

No no no....and NO.  The most overused and misused word in MMOs is "potential".....as in "This game has potential".

 

Hell.....every game.....no, everyTHING in the world has potential.  If I keep typing, this post has the potential to be the worlds greatest novel.

 

Please.  By the time a game is released....it's either good, or it's not.  People that say a released game is "rough around the edges right now", but "has potential", are wrong.  I remember reading "potential" in the forums of Dark and Light, Horizons, Irth On-Line.....hehe.....yup.

 

Potential is a word for beta....not after release.

EVE Online would have a thing or two to say about it. By all accounts and developer admission, it was largely crap at release. Now, like that style or not, it is an extraordinarily successful game.

This article was pretty good. I am glad that it didn't include "carebear", since that seems to dying out, at least around here, compared to the way it used to be. I guess all the carebears are fanbois and haters now. 

Re: WoW clone: When I first played WoW during a stress test, I told my husband it was going to be huge... but that didn't stop me from summarizing it as "EQ for Dummies" (not saying that you're a dummy if you play it; it's a reference to the "for Dummies" series of books that simplify things for the layman). I'd say that WoW was an EQ clone, and everything since WoW has been a WoW clone. It's as if someone handed out a roadmap to the end of the rainbow, and everyone is looking for the same pot of gold-- the one that Blizzard already has.

Alot of the 'wow clone' features are generally just RPG features.  And since much of mmos are mmorpgs, even if they dont' admit it, it seems silly to try to paint it as a wow clone.  Just say RPG, and it will be more accurate.

Personally, i think a common misused word is Massive.  it originally was meant for any game having 32 or more characters, as that was a trick in of itself with the older video cards.  Even now, people want to bump 'massive' to mean 10000 or more pcs per server.  i don't think having more than 4000 player characters is notable different than having more than 3000 pcs.

Good article. Like some others have said "potential" should have been number 1 on the list IMO

As for wow clone, it seems there are only two types of  people that use the term wow clone:1) the person who has only played wow and 2) the person whos first MMO was wow.

*yawn* Gotta say most of this artile just got me bored and it felt more like You hated on people with lower IQ than you and likes to use popular words or devs that knows that these words work but they at the same time knows the real meaning behind them.

 WoW-clone is not misused....at all.  Games often take from the best, its simply the fact.  Just because its a Bright Wizard instead of a Fire mage doesn't mean y doesn't equal x.  It's a WoW clone in that the combat is the same, and people with WoW experience had no trouble with a WAR transition because of it.  It's a little more PvP centric version of WoW, still the same theme park garbage.

And just because a word isn't used as originally intended doesn't mean it is wrong.  The word "upset" was never used to describe the underdog winning until the horse "upset" won a race against the odds, and ever since it has been correct usage of the word.  So this article is horrible.

I just wanted to read the carebear part to see what he will say about it, but no. He didnt make a carebear title. WTF???

Wow Jon, "Epic Fail" with another  "non-innovative", far from "polished", "theme park" article!  Your no "WoW Killer" by any means Jon! Your a day late and a dollar short coming up with this. When was the "launch date" for this article? I suspect you were in over your head with promises of a article that shouldve been released about 3 years ago! This article delivers nothing but rehashed news, I consider it "vaporware" at this point! You used to be on time with the trendy articles Jon, but its obvious that you're just not "hardcore" anymore Jon! There, I said it! Now Ill probably get "flamed" from all the "fanbois" who ride the preverbial coat tail of success you have swindled so many subscribers out of!  I suggest if you do anymore of these, try to make sure you release the articles in the middle of a trendy word spree, and not at the end of its life stage!!!

LOL, Great article Jon, but was a bit "little to late" dont ya think? Who says "fanboi" anymore? We now call `em "teabaggers" Jon. But thats what I love about you, youre attention to detail! lol!

Well written, and the picture for "Failure" was hilarious. Good read.