Originally posted by racasdorph

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by racasdorph

Those that argue that it wont hurt the PvE aspect are also WRONG! People with better gear get in the group... example... I find a group have decent gear, then someone who just spent 15 bucks on thier gear comes... they pick the other guy... I dont get in... he does, because he has the money adn can quickly buy better...it hurts PvP and Pve... and if the mmo has a player driven econmy based on game items, it will warp that,,,,

 

*shrugs* i suppose. But i woun't want on that team anyway. I prefer skilled players over looted ones anyway.

 

But what do i know my main MMO is City of Heroes where I'm a 60 month vent would can run half the game without any enhancments and still get begged on to join teams.

 

Cause i'm just that good, and people know it.

 

Ooo this bring up a good question, how will people know right off the bat who is skilled and who isnt? Yeha after awhile u will be able to tell... after the group is wiped lol

well the big "60 month vetran" badge in info screen might be a clue :P

haha ok, aslong as it says that :P

I have heard of people spending over 5,000 dollars on a free to play game and over $ 40,000 in Eve so ya they might just as well give in and add an item shop so they can fund more development on our favorite games. The economy in games are always messed up any way, you just can't see the gold farmers going it so you just figure this is the way it is suposed to be and most don't even care any how.

So people here saying that they'll never play a game with RMT in it...err name a game that deosn't have it.  Of course in most games its 'illega' but that doesn't seem to stop very many people.  I fail to see how it being legal or illegal effects the arguments about cheapening advancement so therefor you should just stop playing MMOs I guess.

On a more serious note, the crux of the argument is if time played is to be the core metric of player accomplishment and if so if that metric is to be displayed via gear, levels etc.  

If this is true then RMTs act directly against this. But is this a good model in the first place? After all why is there inherent virtue in playing the game more? Of course one advantage is that unlike a skill based axis (like leaderboards for instance) everyone can advance on a time axis, albiet at different rates.

If you are making a game that's going top follow that axis then you really do need to limit  RMT to a bare minimum via rigiourous enforcement and/or wall it off) as wow does.  On the other hand, this isn't the only way to run a railroad and simply having a subscription fee does not wed you to this as your primary axis. For an example of a subscription based game that does not look at EVE.

Originally posted by Axewielderx

Originally posted by OldBiker

Eve Online allows RMT of a sort.  You can pay real money for game time codes and sell those codes in-game.  They do not condone buying in-game money for real money directly or the reverse.  The reason this works for this game is that it has a true free-market economy.  There are no NPCs who are going to buy your loot and set artificial item valuation.  The value of an item is set by the player demand.  As such, the value of game time codes are set by player demand.  The other factor that drives Eve's economy is all gear is tradable and you lose gear on death (some is randomly destroyed and the rest is lootable).

 

When I spoke of EVE I was speaking of their player longivity and sub income versus the non-existant sub rate of F2P models. I thought that was obvious as I spoke of income in that particular paragraph.

Not much sense in trying to pick apart someone else's post if you do not read all of it or grasp all the concepts being laid out. :)

:)  Nice ego.  Did I quote your post?  Don't assume I was replying to anything you said.

I predict in the long run EVERY MMO will have some form of RMT. Why? Because money is just too powerful to resist.

Thats exactly why RMT will NOT take off...no company will risk alienating their subscriber base by going RMT. RMT pisses off too many people for reasons already mentioned. If it was as big a cash cow as some people think, it would already be the standard now.

The big developers arent stupid, and know full well how the majority of the MMO player base will react to RMT. They will not risk their stable and predictable subscription model for the fly-by-night RMT crowd. At best, RMT will be in addition to the normal subscription model, not in place of it. And even then it will be limited to small stuff that doesnt affect game play. CoH and Eve are both examples of this. I dont consider them RMT because their RMT stuff does not affect gameplay. And I think most people would agree.

If that changed and you could suddenly buy quick advancament in those games through RMT, you'd see a huge backlash followed by a quick exodus of cancelled subscriptions. ...and a new non-RMT MMO arriving to fill that vacuum.

No company will resist the siren call at some point.

Sirens with STDs are much easier to resist. RMT is basically like an STD for MMOs. It will drive people away.

So people here saying that they'll never play a game with RMT in it...err name a game that deosn't have it.

Buying costume pieces hardly counts as RMT. If you think it does, I'd argue your definition is unreasonably broad.

Of course in most games its 'illega' but that doesn't seem to stop very many people.

If it is illegal, then it is not a real RMT now is it. Its cheating.

I fail to see how it being legal or illegal effects the arguments about cheapening advancement so therefor you should just stop playing MMOs I guess.

Because if it is legal, more people will do it. That seems obvious to me.

On a more serious note, the crux of the argument is if time played is to be the core metric of player accomplishment and if so if that metric is to be displayed via gear, levels etc. If this is true then RMTs act directly against this. But is this a good model in the first place?

It works for me. If you have a better model, feel free to present it.

On the other hand, this isn't the only way to run a railroad and simply having a subscription fee does not wed you to this as your primary axis. For an example of a subscription based game that does not look at EVE.

I've been playing Eve for years. And yes, character skills matter. If you have the skills to mount tech 2 weapons (for example) you are going to find it easier to get into good player corps or whatever.

Originally posted by FastTx

Except you don't see the Marathon runner and the motorcyclyst competing in the same race. If they did, the motorcyclist would be frowned upon and laughed at for buying a motorcycle to win because he spent his time in the office earning money for the motorcycle rather than training for the big race.

Why do people who have jobs and families WANT to compete with people who have more time on their hands? Just play the game at your pace? I know many who do. RMT hurts games more than it helps, cripples economies, unbalances PvP and creates classes of living... those who pay and those who don't. In fact casual play or hardcore play is not even a real issue when it comes to RMT. There are MANY "hardcores" who have lots of money. So they play like they have no lives and pay for RMT to boot. Then there are MANY casuals who just take the game slow. You don't see them because you are looking towards the finish line.

The purpose of an MMORPG is every action you take affects others around you. Some people seem to think it doesn't that we shouldn't care. I played Lineage 2 for a long time and finally got fed up, I will not play a game controlled by Ebayers/Botters/RMTers ever again. I'll play a game controlled by whoever demonstrates the most teamwork, skill and organization.

Or the runner would be laughed at for trying to compete with a motor cycle ;) Seriously though, the point i'm apparently very bad at making is as long as they're following the rules people should have an option of how to enjoy their gaming experience. If implemented correctly i see RMT simply as a tool for players willing to spend money instead of time to gain the same results. Overall that might make mmo's more accessible to casual gamers like me, which is a good thing i think.

I don't know if they've been mentioned yet, but what about official expansion sets you can buy in the stores, aren't they a form of RMT too? You buy the option of raising your level cap, better equipment and/or exclusive access to quests and areas. Is that unfair cheating as well?

Richard Aihoshi's blogs drive me crazy because I can't stand "F2P" games or RMT and every one of his blogs comes across as little more than a forum troll post. How in the world is it "inevitable" that MMOs will move toward RMT. That's nothing more than a troll statement. There's no evidence at all of mainstream MMO games moving toward RMT. I do not know of any game of any significance (and by "of any significance" I don't mean whatever bubbly little anime-styled drivel you might be thinking of suggesting) on the horizon that has been confirmed as RMT, and he knows full well it'll drive people on this forum bonkers for someone claim RMT is the inevitable future.

---

"If I happen to decide I want to pick up the pace by buying a better weapon, some bonus XP potions or whatever, I really don't see that as constituting a problem for anyone else."

---

Of course it's not a problem for anyone else -- good job coming up with the safest, most harmless-sounding example possible. Hey, how about a real example now: I decide to buy a better weapon and armor to wreak havoc on my enemies in PvP, that they must now also spend a lot of money if they want to have any chance to compete with me. Another real example: the developers realize they have to skew the difficulty of endgame raid bosses with the assumption that all of the players will have purchased high-level weapons and armor, lest the encounter be too easy for the vocal hardcore minority, resulting in guilds and raid parties only accepting players who have spent a lot of cash on top items.

Good game developers understand these issues, not to mention the nightmare RMT is for keeping a balanced in-game economy, and that's why we do not see RMT in most mainstream MMO games... and why it is in no way, no how, not even close to inevitable.

Originally posted by Brain-dead

So people here saying that they'll never play a game with RMT in it...err name a game that deosn't have it.

Buying costume pieces hardly counts as RMT. If you think it does, I'd argue your definition is unreasonably broad.

 

Um... this EXACTLY what RMT is. RMT stands for Real Money Transactions, and it is applied to the sale of virtual goods and services. This is one of the revenue streams that every publisher (that I am aware of) uses to monitize thier online games.

This is like aurguing that a Tarrif isnt a tax because you personally like Tarrif's but not Income Tax, and as such have declared that all taxes are bad. RMT is here today, and being used by basically everyone with virtual goods and services. You have made a stance that it is 'bad' but the reality is that if you spend money for online goods or services, you have likely paid for RMT of some sort... and you thought that it was ok.

Um... this EXACTLY what RMT is. RMT stands for Real Money Transactions

By that definition, EVERYTHING is RMT unless it's free. All subscription MMOs are therefore RMT since you pay money to play the game every month?

Gimme a break.

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by WSIMike

PvP was just an example I used.

Please don't try pulling that "the example given is the only applicable one" crap. It won't fly.

I also noted the elitism that can rise out of something like that and can affect other players who don't have the finances to run out and buy every new "must have or you suck" item that comes along. I notice you ignored that point though - not coincidentally, I'm sure.

 

 

ok then lets go though some key PvE secnarios then.

 

RTMer can not trade or sell items, does not team with you:

Effect on you? None

 

RTMer can not trade or sell items, does team with you:

Effect on you? Better team?

 

RTMer can trade or sell items:

Effect on you? The same item he bought RTM you can grind for and buy at AH. Even Play. 

 

Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here, but my situation would be more like this:

Example 1: (Item Mall)
Company adds a powerful weapon, exclusively available via the Item Mall.
It becomes quickly regarded as a "must have" weapon.
Elitists will refuse to group with anyone who doesn't have it because it "slows their xp/hr"
Unfortunately, you can't afford it because you have a limited budget already and that money goes towards xp potions just so you can keep up with everyone else and not get left behind.
You get left behind anyway, because now that you can't buy that new uber weapon, you're shunned from parties and considered a "n00b".

Example 2: (Non Item Mall)
Company adds a powerful weapon to the game
There's a quest line with a particularly tough boss battle at the end required to obtain it
Optionally, the sword can be sold on the Auction House, or via private shop.
A player has the option to either complete the quest and obtain it, or, they can save the money and buy it as the game itself provides the means to do so either way.

The first example is not a level playing field for all players.
The second example is.

Good post CayneJobb. Thats pretty much what I wanted to say as well.

Let me try another example - because I come from Pen and Paper rpgs and saw something similar:

Among the RPG conventions there is type of persistant RPG where you roll up a character and play in different scenarios from convention to convention - in many ways it's an "offline MMRPG". All these games have strict creation rules and require various levels of documentation to insure accuracy/honesty. Players are allowed to trade items etc with documentation.

Somewheres along the way, some one had the idea of having players donate items (that already existed in game) and auctioning them off for real world cash in a charity auction. Sounds good right? The charity benefits and nothing new enters the game.

So then, some bright coordinator gets the idea of *creating* brand new items, rares, specialized things etc specifically *for* these auctions. Now it turns into a bidding war to be the one mage who has that rare flying cat familar or the flaming sword of doom.

At least that was still money going to charities....that last example is what RMT leads to and why it is bad. The entire game becomes a bidding war for shiny toys. Yeah sure people engage in that sort of behavior in other hobbies in the real world too - but there are a plethora of insulting names for them and most people don't keep associating with them.

Or perhaps think of it this way, if you ever played a PnP rpg; would you play with a DM who said: okay you all start with XX, but the more money you slip me before the game, the more perks I will give your character? I sure wouldn't, I wouldn't play under that DM and I wouldn't play with any player who would pay.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by WSIMike

PvP was just an example I used.

Please don't try pulling that "the example given is the only applicable one" crap. It won't fly.

I also noted the elitism that can rise out of something like that and can affect other players who don't have the finances to run out and buy every new "must have or you suck" item that comes along. I notice you ignored that point though - not coincidentally, I'm sure.

 

 

ok then lets go though some key PvE secnarios then.

 

RTMer can not trade or sell items, does not team with you:

Effect on you? None

 

RTMer can not trade or sell items, does team with you:

Effect on you? Better team?

 

RTMer can trade or sell items:

Effect on you? The same item he bought RTM you can grind for and buy at AH. Even Play. 

 

Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here, but my situation would be more like this:

Example 1: (Item Mall)
Company adds a powerful weapon, exclusively available via the Item Mall.
It becomes quickly regarded as a "must have" weapon.
Elitists will refuse to group with anyone who doesn't have it because it "slows their xp/hr"
Unfortunately, you can't afford it because you have a limited budget already and that money goes towards xp potions just so you can keep up with everyone else and not get left behind.
You get left behind anyway, because now that you can't buy that new uber weapon, you're shunned from parties and considered a "n00b".

and if their going to turn down the 5 year vet over the 3 month noob wit hthe Sword Of Doom, i say good riddence. Let the team die, over and over.

Its inevitable that some companies think they are failing or not advancing due to their distribution methods.  That they think giving the product away and then selling fluff inside the product for real case will get them back "in the game".  Its inevitable because they already put the business model "of the future" out there in interviews at least a year ago.

What is also inevitable is that their continued failure to understand why they are having these issues... will only get worse after they do this.

This is what SOE wants to do...

You can find interviews all over the place.  Smedley said that he think the subscriptionless model is the one of the future with microtransactions.  He also has made reference to how many millions of people use the play station online services... So they obviously have moved the way of hybrid games (ps3/pc) because they think they can get their WoW subscriber base that way.  What is 300,000 subs at 15 bux a month... if you can get 3 to 5 million kids who get to spend even just 5 bux a month.... on "fluff".

That's what I get from their interviews.  The "vision" isn't about trying to retain some set spending per person ratio... its about selling a smaller amount to a massive player base and having more income as a result.. then they would ever have in the subscription model.

At least I think that's how they must look at it.

For the average MMO player... at least me (I think I'm average).  What I see in EQ2 or if I look at SWG (don't play anymore).  Is they add items to Station Exchange all the time... or LON... that you pretty much buy.  Some of the SWG items you'd only have a chance at by buying LON decks (they don't have station cash there).   These same items in the game prior to LON or Station Cash would have been crafter items.

So they take things other players should be making... and then let you buy them for cash.  In other words you are paying for content that used to be included.... or part of an expansion at least.

I don't have any issue if they had stuck to selling XP pots... heck even dyes... crap like that.  I don't care if someone else can level faster.. it doesn't affect me.  As a crafter it pisses me off in epic ways... when instead of a new recipe.. they make that new item a cash purchase.

So my slant is mostly about SOE...  but the way the article is.. this is what comes to mind.  EA has had RMT for years and years and years... in UO...  Well SOE just added some of it... name change.. gender change (potions in EQ2.. services in UO).

The only thing SOE hasn't added yet that EA has in UO is... advanced character templates (I'm sure that would go over well).

If RMT is inevitable to this entire market...

Then I would also say its inevitable that this market will also..... end.  (aka it becomes mostly an online console thing like the vision I think soe has... where they hope those 20 million people will spend a few dollars a month).  As opposed to massive online computer games... that people actually pay to play... rather than play to pay.

Originally posted by S1nn3r
I dont post here often but i had to pick up on this pretty silly comment. Did you just say Korea was a third world country ? (being its one of the largest markets as you say for RMT to be run in)
 

They just fired a nuke, americas gunna send em back to the stone age, theyll be a 4th world country in a few weeks..

Originally posted by DarkRexx

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by DarkRexx

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by DarkRexx

It's hilarious how many mmo players love to make companies into some sort of Lex Luthor-esque bad guy because they offer premium services through micro transactions or outside product codes i.e. WoW TCG loot cards. The truth is, is that wanting to make lots of money through selling cash shop only items to players doesn't make a company 'evil' or 'greedy'. It makes them a 'company'.

Personally I don't see a problem with offering extra content through a RMT system, wether or not the premiums are cosmetic or character-enhancing. If it's some person's idea of fun to plunk down 20$ to buy some hawt gear for thier character so they can hang with thier higher-level friends and not get mauled (or grief some noob in pvp, or WHATEVER the reason REALLY doesn't matter) then why should anyone care? If the game stops being fun because of a poorly-implemented cash shop, you don't have to get your spending impulse fix at that particular game. If the mmo doomsday prophets are right (they're not) and RMT destroys every single half-decent game to be released in the near future, therby damning the MMO industry, then just go play some single player games on your PC and/or console of choice, but before you do, remember that lots of those games also offer 'premium content for a nominal fee' as well.  

 

You can keep your "premium services" thank you. I will continue to you know PLAY games for items. I don't consider swiping my credit card for an item a fun game tactic to obtain an item. In fact that isn't a game at all anymore. I think all of you are missing the points of GAMES, they are meant to be played. I guess swiping a credit card to you is fun. Games are about gameplay, if a game is unfun to you then play a different one. You people sure are illogical in the way you "play" games. 

I will make a new fun game online for all of you to play. The object of the game is to swipe your credit card as many times as you can to obtain items and then sit in the town and stare at yourself. It's a blast!

 

Why does it bother you that some people choose to pay for items off of a cash shop? It's not like I'm condoning third party services that just as often rip you off as deliver whatever service they've promised (gold, power-leveling, big tits, what-have-you). 

I think your issue is that you like to put a lot of game time into earning things for your avatar, whatever game you happen to be playing, and that the fact is that there are other people out there that think to themselves, "Gee, I sure don't have a lot of time and/or  patience to earn level (fill in the blank) and I'd really like to start having some MMO fun. But luckily there's this nifty little cash shop that sells EXP gain potions and items that ensure my gear wont explode from trying to enchant it . Also I want cat ears." So, you notice this and because you feel a sense of accomplishment for earning your items through the tried and true method of grinding ad nauseum, you go off on a tanget like an old man yelling about 'work ethic'.

The Fact Of The Matter is this: When you play a subscription game, you're paying for content you have to work to earn. When you use a RMT service provided by the company, you're getting what you pay for right away instead of having to grind like a mother in order to earn it. You end up spending roughly the same amount of money either way, and I'm not sure why you dislike people because your sense of fun is different than others.

 

 

 

You obviously can not understand my point so I will not explain it further. If you do not get it by now, continue to "play" your game with your credit card. I find it illogical to play a GAME that I do not have time for nor enjoy so I pay for items instead of playing it myself. That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. If I felt I didn't have enough time to play a game I would quit, it's very simple. I would go to something I had time to you know actually PLAY considering that is why you buy games.

 

I understand your point pretty well. You like to play games that encourage you to earn your character's prestige, and you feel that if people don't do that they're cheating themselves. I think you're just saying I can't understand and that you're not going to explain it further because you really can't extrapolate on a subject you haven't even made clear in the first place.
All you've been doing is saying "I am having FUN doing it my WAY and I don't SEE how you're having FUN, SO you're a moron and I SHALL scorn YOU with half-assed SARCASM." When anyone offers a counter-point, you just treat them like a moron because they don't agree with you and repeat the same message in so many words. I also think it's kind of strange how you assume I play micro games even though I  haven't said as much and although I have tried them, I don't use the item malls and I'm not really playing one now. My fave games so far have been WoW, Darkfall, and Warhammer Online.

All I'm saying is...

Sorry, I just lost interest in this topic. Defending RMT is like yelling at people from on top of a pile of crap and wondering why everyone thinks you smell.

 

I will make it simple for you. Killing a dragon for a sword is playing a game. Buying a sword with your credit card isn't playing a game it is buying a digital sword. That is my point. Why pay for a game when you don't want to play it.

Originally posted by Opticron

Originally posted by FastTx

Except you don't see the Marathon runner and the motorcyclyst competing in the same race. If they did, the motorcyclist would be frowned upon and laughed at for buying a motorcycle to win because he spent his time in the office earning money for the motorcycle rather than training for the big race.

Why do people who have jobs and families WANT to compete with people who have more time on their hands? Just play the game at your pace? I know many who do. RMT hurts games more than it helps, cripples economies, unbalances PvP and creates classes of living... those who pay and those who don't. In fact casual play or hardcore play is not even a real issue when it comes to RMT. There are MANY "hardcores" who have lots of money. So they play like they have no lives and pay for RMT to boot. Then there are MANY casuals who just take the game slow. You don't see them because you are looking towards the finish line.

The purpose of an MMORPG is every action you take affects others around you. Some people seem to think it doesn't that we shouldn't care. I played Lineage 2 for a long time and finally got fed up, I will not play a game controlled by Ebayers/Botters/RMTers ever again. I'll play a game controlled by whoever demonstrates the most teamwork, skill and organization.

 

Or the runner would be laughed at for trying to compete with a motor cycle ;) Seriously though, the point i'm apparently very bad at making is as long as they're following the rules people should have an option of how to enjoy their gaming experience. If implemented correctly i see RMT simply as a tool for players willing to spend money instead of time to gain the same results. Overall that might make mmo's more accessible to casual gamers like me, which is a good thing i think.

I don't know if they've been mentioned yet, but what about official expansion sets you can buy in the stores, aren't they a form of RMT too? You buy the option of raising your level cap, better equipment and/or exclusive access to quests and areas. Is that unfair cheating as well?

  Accessible? At that point you are not even playing the game just buying stuff with your credit card? Buying stuff with a credit card does not make a fun game. I would rather go somewhere else and play what I had time for. And no, buying an expansion isn't even in the same ball park .. you are buying an expansion to the game where you can PLAY more. Most people purchase video games because they want to play them, weird concept. Most do not buy games and then find out where they can buy all the items, characters, etc so they can avoid playing the game they bought. That would be illogical.

Something that stood out to me in the article was the risk of purchasing virtual items, currency or characters from third parties.  The greatest risk was the possible failure to deliver, leaving the consumer with little recourse.

This doesn't seem all that different from some of the policies we see offered by MMO publishers themselves.  Some will sell you an item and then claim the right to diminish it's value or even eliminate it outright anytime they see fit.  Just like third parties, the user agreements in these games leave the consumer with little recourse.  By agreeing to the EULA you're told that you've waived many of your consumer rights should there be any disagreement between the publisher and you.  That's just ugly to me.  I don't want to purchase virtual items for an MMO, only to have those items nerfed or deleted shortly thereafter, with little if any warning, and no compensation for the money I just paid.  Not all publishers are like this, but some most certainly are.

 At the moment I'm beta testing a game with RMT.  What I like about this game's business model is that you licence the use of virtual items for a specific time period.  If the publisher reduces the value of the item, or it becomes unavailable for some reason, you can cancel your licence and receive a refund for the time remaining on it.  The publisher keeps the money for the time you've already used of course.  I think this model of RMT is much, much more user friendly.

I've also seen RMT used for items that create a two tier system of players withing the MMO: the "haves" and the "have nots."  The haves can kick the crap out of the have nots in PvP, and they're much more valuable as group members in PvE.  Saying that RMT is an option under these circumstances is very misleading.  It's more of a necessity, and should be marketted as such.

This is especially objectionable in subscription based games.  Some players pay to play an MMO, but with the introduction of performance enhancing RMT gear, they have a hard time competing, and their subscription money is not the only fee they're going to have to pay to be successful.

What's worse is that some games used to include loot as part of the subscription fee, but it is now only available via RMT.  So, players are paying the same subscription they always did (or more), but they are no longer receiving the same value.

Even worse than that is the example of one game that introduced performance enhancing loot via a type of RMT lottery system.  The loot used to be added as part of the subscription, but now people have to pay an online store real cash for merely an opportunity to get certain items.  Most often they end up with no item, or an item they didn't want.

Many people have in fact left this game because of this issue, according to the forums.  However, those that remain are now shelling out hundreds of dollars in some cases to get the loot they feel they must have. 

As I've said though, not all publishers take this dark and ugly approach to RMT.  The game I'm beta testing is one example.  Another might be City of Heroes, a game I played for a few years.  When NCsoft introduced RMT items in that game, they did not take the place of content updates.  The content kept coming.  The RMT items added, more than anything, style and additional customization to the game in the form of special looking modes of transportation, and thematic costumes.  The transportation (light surfboard) didn't give you an edge over any other player, but it looked cool as hell.  To see one was to want one, but if you couldn't afford it for some reason, your ability to play the game successfully was not diminished.

Another thing they did was bundle costumes with emotes and a super power that once again did not give you a competitive advantage.  This was very clever in my view.  They introduced something called a cyborg pack.  You got robotic costume options, a robot dance emote, and the ability to self-destruct and take out much of what was around you.  This did you no good whatsoever in PvP because you killed yourself.  That's a loss.  You might take someone with you, in which case I suppose it would be a draw.  In PvE, you might be useful, but you'd have to be willing to sacrifice yourself.  I suppose it gave you a chance to be something of a sacrificial hero.  Could others blow up everything around them though, without the cyborg pack?  Yup, there were a ton of power options that you could earn through game play that would do the same thing, without the self-destruction aspect.

Did a lot of people buy this pack?  From what I saw, yes.  The costume options were cool, the dance was fun, and blowing yourself up was funny as hell and occasionally even useful.

If RMT becomes more and more a part of MMOs, I'd simply like to see it done in a user friendly way.  If people purchase an item, give them a licence to use it for a specific period of time.  If the item loses its value give them the option to cancel the licence for a partial refund.  Don't charge people a subscription fee and then reduce the content that they are paying for.  Don't charge people a sub fee but secretly make it necessary for them to buy additional RMT items just to be useful.  If you offer RMT items, let people get what they paying for; for goodness sake don't make them play some kind of lottery with real cash.

RMT can be done well, or it can be done poorly.  If it's done well, I think it can add options to a game without hurting the content or the community.  I hope that MMO companies take the high road.  Some have and some have not.  I guess we'll see how things play out.  Meanwhile, I strongly encourage people to read the EULA with RMT based games.  Some of these games are very user friendly.  Others are setting you up for a bad ride.

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by nekollx

Originally posted by WSIMike

PvP was just an example I used.

Please don't try pulling that "the example given is the only applicable one" crap. It won't fly.

I also noted the elitism that can rise out of something like that and can affect other players who don't have the finances to run out and buy every new "must have or you suck" item that comes along. I notice you ignored that point though - not coincidentally, I'm sure.

 

 

ok then lets go though some key PvE secnarios then.

 

RTMer can not trade or sell items, does not team with you:

Effect on you? None

 

RTMer can not trade or sell items, does team with you:

Effect on you? Better team?

 

RTMer can trade or sell items:

Effect on you? The same item he bought RTM you can grind for and buy at AH. Even Play. 

 

Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here, but my situation would be more like this:

Example 1: (Item Mall)
Company adds a powerful weapon, exclusively available via the Item Mall.
It becomes quickly regarded as a "must have" weapon.
Elitists will refuse to group with anyone who doesn't have it because it "slows their xp/hr"
Unfortunately, you can't afford it because you have a limited budget already and that money goes towards xp potions just so you can keep up with everyone else and not get left behind.
You get left behind anyway, because now that you can't buy that new uber weapon, you're shunned from parties and considered a "n00b".

 

and if their going to turn down the 5 year vet over the 3 month noob wit hthe Sword Of Doom, i say good riddence. Let the team die, over and over.

Sounds great in theory and perhaps you would think that way. However, it would not be okay or feasible for everyone - particularly the people unable to effectively make progress because they can't freely pull out their Visa card when "Must Have Weapon #5432663" is introduced and are shunned from parties as a "gimped player" - and that's where the problem lies.

Similar things happen in MMOs without item malls, and this is how I can say confidently that it would (and does) happen in an item mall game. The difference is that in a MMO without the item mall, a player without that item has the ability to obtain it by actually playing the game, as it should be.

 The whole argument against RMT that states "why don't you want to play the game?" is not valid. People who are making RMTs obviously DO want to play the game. They just want to play a different part of it. A lot of RMT is people substituting money for repetitve play.  Of course just because someone wants something doesn't me they should get it.

The whole argument against RMT that states "why don't you want to play the game?" is not valid. People who are making RMTs obviously DO want to play the game. They just want to play a different part of it.

Great...I want to play in God mode. So if I pay enough money to the MMO company, can I be a god in the game? If not, why do you want to ruin my fun?

I dont have to the time to grind, but im poor in real life too....why cant i just get everything free...? I want to play the game like everyone else... why are you stopping me from playing how I want to play...and get everything I want...whenever I want

Originally posted by Superman0X

Originally posted by Brain-dead

I guess that depends on how you define RMT...IMO, buying a costume piece in City of Heroes when there are thousands of free ones available doesnt make the game RMT. It is still a subscription game. And you cannot buy advancement with money.

 

That is like saying:

I dont buy stuff online, I just use Ebay.

 

RMT is the METHOD that is used to do business, not the results.

The only difference is that if you spend money looking red, instead of looking green, that does not really affect me. If you spend your money having twice as much HP, making you twice as hard to kill, that does affect me.

With that perspective in mind, Blizzard does not have RMT. Their in-game items that you can obtain by purchasing trade cards are eye-candy nothing more. It wont make you any more powerful or competitive then I am, unless you consider fashion in WoW to be a form of competition.

Originally posted by nekollx

ok then lets go though some key PvE secnarios then.

 

RTMer can not trade or sell items, does not team with you:

Effect on you? None

 

RTMer can not trade or sell items, does team with you:

Effect on you? Better team?

 

RTMer can trade or sell items:

Effect on you? The same item he bought RTM you can grind for and buy at AH. Even Play.

Another scenario:

RMT bought item Z
I cannot afford to buy Z, so I must grind X number of hours before I am able to obtain that item Z. By the time I manage to get that item Z, RMTer grinded those same X number of hours as well and he is with yet another item Z. So at the end, while I have 1 item Z, he has 2. Still even play?