Originally posted by logangregor
<Mod Edit>

Instead of saying the arguments are flawed ( I wont even mention childish) why dont you give some insight? It will not be fair to remark something childish without giving counter arguments.

I find zorn's comments are resonable though not wholly agreeable. 

Originally posted by karat76

Originally posted by Kentho

Yes I think Hardcore people can play WOW.

I am sure there are Firemen, Policemen, Military personel all playing the game. Those are the hardcores.

If you are just playing a game and consider yourself to be hardcore because of how you play it. Your kidding yourself. There is no such thing as a hardcore player. they are just video games.

That is my opinion.

 

 Think you nailed it. Can't be hadcore in a game. Addicted probably but slaying more pixels than other people does not make you hard core.

Last time I checked, we are on MMORPG.com, and last time I checked everyone here should play MMOs quite a bit. So when talking about "hardcore" we are not referring to what we do outside of games, but what we do while playing games, specifically MMOs. So.. here you are wrong to make an accusation that slaying more in-game monsters is somehow not "hardcore", since that is what this website is meant to promote and be talked about.
 

If you think being in the military is hardcore, that's great, but this isn't a website about real-life personalities or anything of that nature, it's about MMOs and what happens in them. So when we talk about what is hardcore and what is not, it is relative to the MMO genre.

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

Originally posted by karat76

Originally posted by Kentho

Yes I think Hardcore people can play WOW.

I am sure there are Firemen, Policemen, Military personel all playing the game. Those are the hardcores.

If you are just playing a game and consider yourself to be hardcore because of how you play it. Your kidding yourself. There is no such thing as a hardcore player. they are just video games.

That is my opinion.

 

 Think you nailed it. Can't be hadcore in a game. Addicted probably but slaying more pixels than other people does not make you hard core.

Last time I checked, we are on MMORPG.com, and last time I checked everyone here should play MMOs quite a bit. So when talking about "hardcore" we are not referring to what we do outside of games, but what we do while playing games, specifically MMOs. So.. here you are wrong to make an accusation that slaying more in-game monsters is somehow not "hardcore", since that is what this website is meant to promote and be talked about.
 

If you think being in the military is hardcore, that's great, but this isn't a website about real-life personalities or anything of that nature, it's about MMOs and what happens in them. So when we talk about what is hardcore and what is not, it is relative to the MMO genre.

A more unambiguous way of approach towards this is to define what is "hardcore" Are we talking about a human capabilities in playing a game? Or are we talking about a certain context?

Define hardcore in a mmo needs a benchmark. Are we going to use EQ? WoW? UO? Some will argue EQ is more hardcore than WoW, however some will say WoW is simply more advance in time compared to EQ and thus incapable to compare "hardcoreness" 

It is like saying a horse carriage and an automobile. Horse carriage driver will say they are much more hardcore compared to auto mobile driver, is it a fair comment?

Originally posted by chender

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

Originally posted by karat76

Originally posted by Kentho

Yes I think Hardcore people can play WOW.

I am sure there are Firemen, Policemen, Military personel all playing the game. Those are the hardcores.

If you are just playing a game and consider yourself to be hardcore because of how you play it. Your kidding yourself. There is no such thing as a hardcore player. they are just video games.

That is my opinion.

 

 Think you nailed it. Can't be hadcore in a game. Addicted probably but slaying more pixels than other people does not make you hard core.

Last time I checked, we are on MMORPG.com, and last time I checked everyone here should play MMOs quite a bit. So when talking about "hardcore" we are not referring to what we do outside of games, but what we do while playing games, specifically MMOs. So.. here you are wrong to make an accusation that slaying more in-game monsters is somehow not "hardcore", since that is what this website is meant to promote and be talked about.
 

If you think being in the military is hardcore, that's great, but this isn't a website about real-life personalities or anything of that nature, it's about MMOs and what happens in them. So when we talk about what is hardcore and what is not, it is relative to the MMO genre.

A more unambiguous way of approach towards this is to define what is "hardcore" Are we talking about a human capabilities in playing a game? Or are we talking about a certain context?

Define hardcore in a mmo needs a benchmark. Are we going to use EQ? WoW? UO? Some will argue EQ is more hardcore than WoW, however some will say WoW is simply more advance in time compared to EQ and thus incapable to compare "hardcoreness" 

It is like saying a horse carriage and an automobile. Horse carriage driver will say they are much more hardcore compared to auto mobile driver, is it a fair comment?

 

My post was not in any attempt to define or say what hardcore is, but rather to explain that just because you are a military officer, does not make you hardcore on a website made for MMOs. I was just saying you can't say that some guy who plays MMOs all day is not hardcore, when in fact we are on a site dedicated to them.

To me, WoW is not hardcore, it is far too easy to do anything, except maybe a few achievements. I would say EQ is more hardcore, and to say it's not as advanced as WoW, we need to remember WoW is five years old. What is hardcore? To me, it is doing things that take extensive time and effort.. but how extensive? It is a tricky question and as you pointed out will vary from person to person, which is why words like hardcore, sandbox, etc. are really poor to use and are used way too loosely.

Instead of labeling things as Sandbox or Hardcore, we should just talk about the features. However, to say WoW is or is not hardcore, I don't think is an argument. It had well-made hardcore elements in endgame raiding pre-BC and even to an extent in BC. If you want to explain to me how WoW is hardcore, I'll listen, but I doubt I'll be convinced.

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

Originally posted by chender

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

Originally posted by karat76

Originally posted by Kentho

Yes I think Hardcore people can play WOW.

I am sure there are Firemen, Policemen, Military personel all playing the game. Those are the hardcores.

If you are just playing a game and consider yourself to be hardcore because of how you play it. Your kidding yourself. There is no such thing as a hardcore player. they are just video games.

That is my opinion.

 

 Think you nailed it. Can't be hadcore in a game. Addicted probably but slaying more pixels than other people does not make you hard core.

Last time I checked, we are on MMORPG.com, and last time I checked everyone here should play MMOs quite a bit. So when talking about "hardcore" we are not referring to what we do outside of games, but what we do while playing games, specifically MMOs. So.. here you are wrong to make an accusation that slaying more in-game monsters is somehow not "hardcore", since that is what this website is meant to promote and be talked about.
 

If you think being in the military is hardcore, that's great, but this isn't a website about real-life personalities or anything of that nature, it's about MMOs and what happens in them. So when we talk about what is hardcore and what is not, it is relative to the MMO genre.

A more unambiguous way of approach towards this is to define what is "hardcore" Are we talking about a human capabilities in playing a game? Or are we talking about a certain context?

Define hardcore in a mmo needs a benchmark. Are we going to use EQ? WoW? UO? Some will argue EQ is more hardcore than WoW, however some will say WoW is simply more advance in time compared to EQ and thus incapable to compare "hardcoreness" 

It is like saying a horse carriage and an automobile. Horse carriage driver will say they are much more hardcore compared to auto mobile driver, is it a fair comment?

 

 

My post was not in any attempt to define or say what hardcore is, but rather to explain that just because you are a military officer, does not make you hardcore on a website made for MMOs. I was just saying you can't say that some guy who plays MMOs all day is not hardcore, when in fact we are on a site dedicated to them.

To me, WoW is not hardcore, it is far too easy to do anything, except maybe a few achievements. I would say EQ is more hardcore, and to say it's not as advanced as WoW, we need to remember WoW is five years old. What is hardcore? To me, it is doing things that take extensive time and effort.. but how extensive? It is a tricky question and as you pointed out will vary from person to person, which is why words like hardcore, sandbox, etc. are really poor to use and are used way too loosely.

Instead of labeling things as Sandbox or Hardcore, we should just talk about the features. However, to say WoW is or is not hardcore, I don't think is an argument. It had well-made hardcore elements in endgame raiding pre-BC and even to an extent in BC. If you want to explain to me how WoW is hardcore, I'll listen, but I doubt I'll be convinced.

No arguments here, talking about features has more substances than "hardcore" 

Nobody has mentioned Darkfall yet? It's pretty hardcore IMO depending on your mindset. Free for all full loot means that you will lose everything equiped or in your inventory. Most people bring a good amount of items for raids which means dying will make most people pissed off unless they have lots of extras. Add the fact that you can be attacked anywhere in the game makes it more exciting.

come on guys, lets play some D&D. Real hardcore action, who will be the healer?

WOW played at top level is hardcore.  I have a lvl 80 for about three months and can't do any raid yet, and not sure I will ever be able to, really.

WOW is casual at best.  Everything is spoon feed and you can max level quickly then geek raid to get  the silly gear.  The game is made for kids and so its geared for kids making it easy.  Some may call it "hardcore" but I doubt they have played many MMOs for comparison.   Questing is cake and PvP is paltry.  A game that has ZERO risk for the reward is not Hardcore.  It has 12million players because its easy, not hardcore.

WoW has hardcore and casual players like every other mmo.

         Players whose first MMO was WoW probably think it is hardcore....Those of us that came from EQ, UO, and some of hte older games found it easy because it was alot easier than the games we came from......Its also hard to convince me that a game with no real death penalty is hardcore.......

Hardcore and videogames don't match....stop worrying about labeling your games and just have fun.

looks like to me the OP is just trying to sell his account

Originally posted by altairzq

WOW played at top level is hardcore.  I have a lvl 80 for about three months and can't do any raid yet, and not sure I will ever be able to, really.

Sarcasm? I hope...

It takes one week to gear up @ 80 so that you are ready for raids. With all the crafted gear available, heroics, rep rewards, badge rewards, etc... There is no reason why any player, with even the most minor amount of motivation, cannot be ready for raids in under a few weeks tops after capping.

You can be half epicced out just from alternative options for progression, before you ever step foot into a raid, easily. So I have to ask, what appears to be causing you this problem? is it lack of quality players to raid with perhaps? or just nothing happening on your server of choice? maybe a lack of playtime on your part?

If by hardcore you mean difficult, you only have Ulduar at the moment to claim as hardcore, and the Icecrown Citadel whenever it gets implemented. Usually that is the hardest instance avaiable, but WoW in this sense of hardcore only has its hardest raids avaiable as that.

If by hardcore you mean harsh, then, no, you have nothing to say as that in WoW. No death penalty besides wasting time to get back, BGs are instanced and fair (theorically, because twinks dominate all lower-level BG brackets, so old players can feel they have some pewpew while they 2-shot people of their own level), PvE goes as hard as the need to repair your equipment.

A game is not challenging when all its content has been conquered though, nothing for people to dream in pioneering.

Originally posted by Zeltraz500

 Is World of Warcraft for hardcore MMO players?
I keep arguing with my freind
he has played a level 80 for about 24 hours
has not done 1 raid
has not leveled a character passed level 20
I one the other hand have a level 80 orc shaman (name senzil on the server Wildhammer)
2 peices of val
1 peice of earth
all epiced (cept for 1 trinket thats blue)
I have downed multiple raids
I WILL SHOW MY CHARACTER IN-GAME
his name is Senzil on the server Wildhammer

and I disagree
and he says that WoW is for softcore gamers even at level 80

Now what do you think?
I personally think he should shut the frick up cuz hes never played an 80 and raiding but wat do u think?
15 minutes ago - 4 days left to answer.
Additional Details
will show my character in game also
 

Also he has played pre-NGE SWG

It all depends on what you would call hardcore.

If you mean that you play a lot of time then sure.

If you mean that it is diffucult and only the good players get somewhere, then no. Wow is one of the easiest MMOs there is.

I would say, no Wow and most other MMOs ain't hardcore. EQ was, and UO. Heck even Guildwars is HC later in the game but not Wow, AoC, WAR, EQ2 and many more like them because the majority of the players can handle almost all the content in them. They are too easy to be HC.

On the other side I have friends that quited their job for Wow, doing nothing else but play every moment they are awake and that could be considered hardcore, or no life whatsoever...

Originally posted by jevtyrn

come on guys, lets play some D&D. Real hardcore action, who will be the healer?

Phew, D&D aint hardcore. Warhammer fantasy roleplaying or Runequest is hardcore, D&D are way to simple to be hardcore ;)

Originally posted by Adam1902

WoW is the complete opposite of what you consider a "Hardcore MMO".

• No death penalty, death has no meaning
• No risk
• Instances, the cancer of MMOs. You get your own private little dungeon where you can kill the boss in peace. No fighting over bosses, no PKing to compete for dungeon bosses and their loot.
• Instanced, consensual PvP, where you choose to PvP if you want.
• Why can't I kill whoever I want? That other Orc is a little 7 year old, and he's telling me he fucked my mom, now he's stealing my kills. Wait, WHAT!? I can't kill him? He's on my team!?! Let me fucking kill whoever I want if I wish!

WoW is actually the exact opposite of what people label as "hardcore".  AC2, Everquest, WoW, were the games that begun the nasty softcore "carebear" MMO.

If you enjoy it, why does it matter if it's for the "hardcore" or not? If you're into that kind of thing, that's fine. WoW, is just not for me I'm afraid. I absolutely hate limitations, and I hate instancing. I like to be able to kill who I wish, and I like to fight other groups of players for my dungeon boss (sometimes killing the boss is the easy part!).

Zorndorf

Read above comments.

 "Is World of Warcraft for hardcore players?"

It might have been once, and could have got a lot harder -> challenging. Now it's just a theme park. That said, looking forward to the next stage of the Argent Tournament, at least the gear there is earned rather than dropped off random boss / mob on a straight tank 'n spank.

And the crafting system works well, I find personally.

To answer your question specifically though, no. it isn't.

But it might have been if the dev's hadn't sold their souls to the masses and tried to please everyone rather than the faithful hardcore. That's not a complaint, more of an observation.

Just to throw out my opinion.

WoW used to be for hardcore players Pre BC when having tier armor was crazy when downing nef was insane when killing ANY naxx boss was being godly and killing poor mr bigglesworth was a curse!

now... sadly.... it has changed burning crusade took strategy out of raids made it 10x easier to get gear same with WOTLK.

IMO taking out strat out of raids and changing it to 20 man instead of 40 man raids was the death of hardcore WoW.

When i had full gianstalkers/dragonstalkers and pieces of cryptstalkers just go useless being replaced by green?! And when they made hunters into easiest mode minimum range being practically melee range being able to plant traps incombat making the pet talent tree unbeatable to other trees took the fun out of pvp... and that is when i threw up the towel

 OHHH and hold up to tell zeltrazz you don't understand hardcore. Gratz on your easy anyone can get nub tier gear now what were all the bosses you killed tank and dps till dead? game probably stopped using dkp as well...

Heres a little taste of what REAL raiding is getting Fire resist Nature resist Frost resist gear to beable to down bosses doing HOURS and HOURS of farming for the resist gear and EVEN MORE for being keyed to mc/bwl/naxx. There will never be strat like in the old days naxx's strat was amazing razuvious one shotting having to use priests to tank?. Using Tranq shot to make sure the boss doesn't drop the raid in seconds.

Gratz on playing easy mode wow once again =)

Also if you want to try out a hardcore kind of game check out Vanguard by SoE one of their most underrated games but i love it join a pvp server. There are NO instanced zones NO allies FFAPVP have fun doing dungeons =)