Thanks man- I'll be keeping track of your progress as well.

Good luck you noob : )

yes you can ...but since the learning curve is high (or years ^^) you might encounter difficulties on 1 on 1 ...wich in my 1 year EVE expirience i had only twice . With eve youve to think outside of the mmo box , many things different ..specialy it got an extreme learning curve . you need a long breath for this one , for me it was a touch too mouch . the mechanics tend to remind you of a browser game from time to time ...also the monthly fees are a bit high for such an aged product ,

I dunno, for a product that continually gives 2 free expansions a year and just got a major graphical overhaul, I personally dont mind the fee.

Well holy crap, a newbie with less than a 100,000 skill points has gotten into some pvp! /boggle

2 kills 1 death

http://miningcorporation.griefwatch.net/index.php?p=pilot&pilot=Armon%20Deacon

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

If you just take a look at the threads on this forum alone, you can see many questions about this, and many answers from fans and haters a like, but as a proespective player, who do you believe? Who is telling the truth? Can a new player really compete?

Project BeliEvE attempts to answer this question with a definitive yes or no.

Armon Deacon is a new freshly created character who will be attempting to progress quickly to "Competing" with the vets. His daily progress will be documented and tracked via this blog.

The character will recieve no outside help monitarily or with items from established characters and his API key has been published for easy validation.

Haters and Fans alike will soon have a definitive answer to the age old question, can a new player really compete with the vets in EvE?

this cant possibly be a definitive answer, no matter what the outcome of your "experiment" will be. Ive seen new players joining eve, and while the one of them got very successfull in a short amount of time from learning the basics of the game, how to skill, how to fit ships, how to save up for a navy issue battleship etc.,  the other is still struggling, not being able to do lvl 3 missions without losing his battlecruiser 50% of the time

I think what he wants to show, to counter a point of constant criticism on these boards, is that when a new player fails to succeed at eve it is because of the PLAYER"S shortcomings and not because the game is insurmountably difficult.

There's a great saying: winners find a way to win, losers find a way to lose ; )

Originally posted by Enkindu

I think what he wants to show, to counter a point of constant criticism on these boards, is that when a new player fails to succeed at eve it is because of the PLAYER"S shortcomings and not because the game is insurmountably difficult.

There's a great saying: winners find a way to win, losers find a way to lose ; )

So how's a dyspro moon POS running Enkindu? Oh wai..

Originally posted by Staatsschutz

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

If you just take a look at the threads on this forum alone, you can see many questions about this, and many answers from fans and haters a like, but as a proespective player, who do you believe? Who is telling the truth? Can a new player really compete?

Project BeliEvE attempts to answer this question with a definitive yes or no.

Armon Deacon is a new freshly created character who will be attempting to progress quickly to "Competing" with the vets. His daily progress will be documented and tracked via this blog.

The character will recieve no outside help monitarily or with items from established characters and his API key has been published for easy validation.

Haters and Fans alike will soon have a definitive answer to the age old question, can a new player really compete with the vets in EvE?

this cant possibly be a definitive answer, no matter what the outcome of your "experiment" will be. Ive seen new players joining eve, and while the one of them got very successfull in a short amount of time from learning the basics of the game, how to skill, how to fit ships, how to save up for a navy issue battleship etc.,  the other is still struggling, not being able to do lvl 3 missions without losing his battlecruiser 50% of the time

Why coudn't it be a definitive answer ? The question is CAN a new player compete, not WILL EVERY new player be competetive and you already answered the question yourself with your example of one player doing quite well and theother not so well.
 

Just because a new player can be competetive this doen't mean they necessarily will, but unlike most other games a new player CANNOT be competetive or useful to end game activities until they reach level cap and get appropriate gear which can take months of farming. The limiting factor in Eve is player knowledge of the game, not character level and gear.

Good job.

This is an interesting read and does bring some ideas to my head.

Goodluck and I hope I continue to see more from you.

Blog is updated with last nights activities, surprisingly enough ended up with six kills last night. Gotta say it was a hell of a lot of fun, a lot more than I expected.

First real evening in eve

Great read. Hell im even thinking of shelving my main for a while and picking up my freshly made pirate alt. The corp you are in looking for another low sp vet ? 

Might be, you'd have to talk to Quani, he's the CEO. Give him a holler.

I just might have to do that. Give me a good chance to check out the new tutorial and missions and back into some fun low sec pvp. 

Originally posted by sa1yaman

Originally posted by Enkindu

I think what he wants to show, to counter a point of constant criticism on these boards, is that when a new player fails to succeed at eve it is because of the PLAYER"S shortcomings and not because the game is insurmountably difficult.

There's a great saying: winners find a way to win, losers find a way to lose ; )

 

So how's a dyspro moon POS running Enkindu? Oh wai..

Not sure what you are getting at here.  Don't have a dyspro moon and never will under curreint mechanics.  Buying R64 mats for T2 production cuts into profits but we still make billions building T2 : )

The ability to adapt and solve problems is critical for eve success.

Lots of people lacking this ability bash the game because they are easily frustrated.

you said "player shortcoming". But isn't it often just that you don't want do do something even when you can? For example joining an alliance.... And also because EVE is about cooperation, sometimes failure comes because some1 else fail doing his task. How is this my shortcoming? Oh thats right, i should have join better corp. But as OP says in his blog - beggars can't be choosers. So its often tough luck for noobs. Or was I only one?

That said I have Q for OP: is really your goal just proving that a noob can join small corp  and then go and gang newbs in their lolfit ships in lowsec? If yes, then it's not really that much ambitious and not too impresive IMO...

---

Originally posted by sa1yaman
That said I have Q for OP: is really your goal just proving that a noob can join small corp  and then go and gang newbs in their lolfit ships in lowsec? If yes, then it's not really that much ambitious and not too impresive IMO...

---

First, get a clue about life in low sec.
Second, check his killboard and read his blog, ffs. 3 of 4 ships they encountered were PVP fitted, no lol fits.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by sa1yaman
That said I have Q for OP: is really your goal just proving that a noob can join small corp  and then go and gang newbs in their lolfit ships in lowsec? If yes, then it's not really that much ambitious and not too impresive IMO...

---

 

First, get a clue about life in low sec.
Second, check his killboard and read his blog, ffs. 3 of 4 ships they encountered were PVP fitted, no lol fits.

beat me to it, most of the people we are fighting are folks that are there to fight, not newbs

Originally posted by sa1yaman

you said "player shortcoming". But isn't it often just that you don't want do do something even when you can? For example joining an alliance.... And also because EVE is about cooperation, sometimes failure comes because some1 else fail doing his task. How is this my shortcoming? Oh thats right, i should have join better corp. But as OP says in his blog - beggars can't be choosers. So its often tough luck for noobs. Or was I only one?

That said I have Q for OP: is really your goal just proving that a noob can join small corp  and then go and gang newbs in their lolfit ships in lowsec? If yes, then it's not really that much ambitious and not too impresive IMO...

It's pretty simple.  If you fail at eve and then blame game mechanics, other players, or anyone other than yourself and then come on a forum like this to cry about it.. that demonstrates a shortfall in your attitude, your intellect, or both.

I make conscious choices not to do certain things and find ways to succeed anyway.

On this board we get pretty tired of people posting not to share or request information, but just to COMPLAIN about the game being too hard/ unfair/ stupid etc...

People frequently post that you can't enjoy the game because of the insurmountable skillpoint deficit you have as a new player.  The OP's project is designed to show potential new players that this really isn't true... that the limitation is more one of intellect and attitude than a built in part of game mechanics.

Not that complicated to get your mind around is it?

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by dhayes68
Problem is the definition of the word 'compete'. The scope of EvE as far as things to be or roles to play, is pretty big. Between the noob and vet, the noob can catch up to compete in one arena/role fairly quickly, but not in many arenas/roles.
Also 'compete' is only one way to interact in EvE. A good question would be: how quickly can a new player contribute?
I would say the entire idea of noobs catching up with vets just shows that a person doesn't have a full understanding of the game, (which would be normal for new players I guess)  and is probably comparing the ideas of 'compete' 'new player' 'vet' and even 'mmo' based on previous, much different mmo's.
 

---

 

You're playing with words, nitpicking or trolling...

He is comparing what can be done as a vet and what can done as a new character, truly a competition and right word to use.

I would say he is being specific, in contrast to being ambiguous as the project is.

First of all, the project will show that a new character can compete with established characters.
Second, "compete"  is not very specific. In order to prevent future "bah, this didnt prove anything" posts, I would suggest putting up specific goals like, killing 10 <insert enemy ship types> here with a minimum kill/death ratio to be <insert a meaningful value here>. This way you can avoid future criticism about afk kills, noob-veteran kills, etc etc.

Originally posted by Lordmonkus

Originally posted by Staatsschutz

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

If you just take a look at the threads on this forum alone, you can see many questions about this, and many answers from fans and haters a like, but as a proespective player, who do you believe? Who is telling the truth? Can a new player really compete?

Project BeliEvE attempts to answer this question with a definitive yes or no.

Armon Deacon is a new freshly created character who will be attempting to progress quickly to "Competing" with the vets. His daily progress will be documented and tracked via this blog.

The character will recieve no outside help monitarily or with items from established characters and his API key has been published for easy validation.

Haters and Fans alike will soon have a definitive answer to the age old question, can a new player really compete with the vets in EvE?

this cant possibly be a definitive answer, no matter what the outcome of your "experiment" will be. Ive seen new players joining eve, and while the one of them got very successfull in a short amount of time from learning the basics of the game, how to skill, how to fit ships, how to save up for a navy issue battleship etc.,  the other is still struggling, not being able to do lvl 3 missions without losing his battlecruiser 50% of the time

Why coudn't it be a definitive answer ? The question is CAN a new player compete, not WILL EVERY new player be competetive and you already answered the question yourself with your example of one player doing quite well and theother not so well.
 

Just because a new player can be competetive this doen't mean they necessarily will, but unlike most other games a new player CANNOT be competetive or useful to end game activities until they reach level cap and get appropriate gear which can take months of farming. The limiting factor in Eve is player knowledge of the game, not character level and gear.

This needs no proof. Its a fact that a vet player with 100000sp is useful for something. A new player is not that useful though, even with a million points. Thats why this project puzzles me, its proven a point that needs no proof. They put a vet on a chair working with a new character, and that vet would win PvP against a noob with a million SPs.

The point that needs proof, though, is this definition of "compete". Can a new character be useful in as many tasks as established characters? The answer is: NO. Why? Because like Planetside, the more SPs you have, the more options you get. A level 1 character in Planetside CAN compete with level 25 character. But, level 25 character has much wider range of weaponry and vehicles to compete with.

So yes, a new char may compete in PvP with a vet, but that new char will fail competeing in economy, mining, crafting, research or what have you with that same vet char. Since Eve does not stop leveling skill points, new character will never reach the same level of choice as the vet with 10mil points above him.

Again, its not about competing at one thing (pvp, industry, mining, etc), but the whole thing in general. Its not as bad as it sounds though, a new player can specialize in one aspect of the game, lets say PvP. That player will catch up to the vet that spreads his points all around. But, if you compare specialized vet with specialized new char, then Im betting the vet will outcompete that new char.