Many of us (myself included) believe that the holy grail of MMOs will be the first truly successful MMORPG-FPS hybrid. So far no game has truly captured both the content and adventure of an RPG with the acute control and dynamic combat of an FPS all in a smoothly operating MMO environment.

Enter a small group of ambitious programmers. They are a mismatch of people who have joined together under a common interest: see how far they can take this new idea with the tools they have. The project is called JKA Galaxies, often JKG for short. It is, in essence, an extremely sophisticated mod for the LucasArts game Jedi Academy. It will feature several planets, multiple servers, an extremely complex leveling and quest system, numerous skills and abilities, mounts, speeders, many weapons, a complex magic system (under the guise "the force") and some of the most complex melee combat seen. The game will also feature complex realtime acrobatics such as that in the Jedi Knight series. It will be a true multiple hit box collision detection MMO with real FPS combat (as it is being built on an FPS platform - not the other way around).  It will feature a maximum of 64 simultaneous players per server instance (that is to say, per load area).  64 simultaneous fighters with playable lag is something pure MMOs still strive for, so this is nothing to sneeze at.

Those who have played Jedi Knight I or II or Jedi Academy already know that it remains one of the most advanced FPS/TPS combat games ever made, one of the most well-balanced and fast-paced, with a level of complexity rivaled by few if any other games. Winning a 1v5 or 10 was not only possible, but occurred often, as the fast-paced combat was as much a game of chess as it was a match of twitch-reflexes.

In the spirit of supporting small independent programmers, who are always the ones that actually break new ground, I would like to ask anyone interested to visit their site, register, and show your support. They are trying to break into the FPS/MMORPG hybrid genre with zero expectation of profit, and that is a tough thing.

I would also ask that the MMORPG staff consider listing them on its game list, as these independent programmers are the true crux of why a hub like this site exists - not to help the corporate giants gain publicity.

Cheers.

While I wish them all the best in their endeavours, JKG is not an MMO. It's a mod for an FPS. As such, I'm confident that there's a number of criteria that mmorpg.com requires for a game to be listed, which it will not meet.

Most notably, 64 players per server is not considered "massively multiplayer".

You misunderstand. It is per server instance. Hence, in the entire game world, many more are possible, it is merely to say that in the same room at the same time, so to speak, is limited at 64.

Two worlds are attempting to touch each other, that of the FPS, and that of the MMORPG. Both sides are straining to reach across to the other side and unite, although we generally think of it as the MMORPG side reaching across to become more and more FPS-like, this game represents an FPS reaching across to become an MMORPG. It is foolish to ignore this. While I will agree with anyone that Planetside (for example) was not an MMORPG and should not be on this site, I would argue that it was closer to a true FPS-MMORPG hybrid than any game currently made, for the reason that the FPS side of the coin is so blatantly lacking in every so-called hybrid thus made.

This game, however, represents a significant step in the RPG direction, a truly great FPS/TPS system, and the closest thing to an MMO we can hope to see at present. I believe it certainly deserves that recognition, because it is closer to attaining that holy grail than any concept I've yet seen and certainly any game I've played.

Edit: I will also note that 64 simultaenous players on one screen fighting one another, in playable lag, is something I have yet to see out of any so-called MMO, so the point itself is rather moot.  If this game acheives it (which it appears it will) it would still be at the cutting edge of playability in terms of numbers fighting simultaneously.  And, as I say, the game world is not limited to 64, it is merely that each loading instance is limited to 64.

Wow, that's the first ime I've every heard anyone say that a MMORPG/FPS is the Holy Grail of the genre.  Considering that RPGs and FPSs don't get along very well, let alone the fact that the players of each type don't care much for the other either. 

People that tend to play FPS do so becasue they are fast and furious, while those who like RPGs tend to play them becasue they give you time to think and strategize and there is no fear of carpal tunnel syndrome.

I think trying to hybridize the play styles is the wrong way to go.  They already tried it with Action Adventure games and while they do sell, they do not even come close to selling like a pure RPG or pure FPS either.

Too bad i am not a fan of playing JEdi Knights or really any Star Wars type game.This is why i like Fantasy games,they are open to any interpretation,whilst a THEME game MUST follow the theme or it is ruined.

A RPG environment could NEVER play well as a FPS /PVP game.The term RPG stands for Role Playing,it is suppose to allow you to play out the type of game YOU want to play,not what some PVP setting dictates.This alone is why the two should NEVER coincide and will NEVER work properly together.

Then if you have ever been a serious FPS type player,you would know the maps and weapons suite the setting differently than in an open spaced RPG map.FPS games are better suited for PLAYERS only,once you add in a realistic world of MOBS and NPCs it changes the whole setting.

Is there some sort of moders license, or does lucas arts freely allow people to mod without restrictions?  You may want to check into the legal issues with making a star wars mmo through this mod.

FPS' and RPGs don't get along very well? Quite a loaded and biased statement, not to mention unimaginative. I will agree that no MMO-FPS hybrid has yet been made properly, but to flatly state that "they do not get along" is close-minded at best.

Vrazule, the reasons you give make me think you have not played any of the Jedi Knight games - quite common. Combat in those games is in fact about strategy, about out-thinking your opponent, and about using your surroundings to your advantage. It is much more the case in these games than in any other FPS I've ever played. If you do not have the experience of these games then it is very difficult to convey why this is. The best I can say is that the degree to which magic is at your disposal in real time, the complexity of melee (saber) fighting, and the way in which every move, ranged or melee or magic, has a counter, makes it a game of strategy and thinking. The ability to move acrobatically in many ways, dodging saber slashes and projectiles, only adds to this effect.

For the record, I do not want to hybridize them either, per se, and I was remiss in suggesting that I did. What I want is a truly outstanding RPG that is also an outstanding FPS that is also an outstanding MMO. The next genre will be pure in all of those, hybrid in none.

Wizardry, as to your reasons, to me they suggest you lack vision. I know that sounds like a personal attack but I'd rather be blunt than overly subtle and get nowhere. There is simply no logical reasoning that suggests that being able to decide your own path in an open and immersive gaming world is mutually exclusive to an FPS combat system. The logic is not sound. Yes, I have been a serious FPS player, and a serious MMORPG player, and a serious RTS player, for that matter. An FPS is capable of having "mobs" that are programmed to put up reasonably difficult fights to their opponents, and some FPS' can be played multiplayer. There is no reason to assume that such AI cannot be carried into an MMO setting, complete with NPCs and the like. In fact, I already know that such things are being done.

Feena, there are licenses and this is all legal.  I am not a programmer nor am I affiliated with the project, they don't even know I'm trying to garner support forit.  However, I do know that it is all legal, I have asked and they are actually quite well versed in that area.

I'm a bit taken back by some of the apparent hostility here.

It sounds interesting, I was a fan of Jedi Knight, Outcast, Acaedemy, etc.

However.. Another MMOFPS? It's like every game coming out these next 2 years is an FPS. I'm glad more are being made and all, but we don't really need 7 of them.

If you would please divulge the names of the others.  I know of Darkfall, Mortal Online, Oblivion, and one or two others, but none of them deserve the title "FPS."  Collision detection MMORPG maybe, but not FPS MMORPG.  Oh, and JKA Galaxies is an FPS and TPS, TPS in melee, FPS in range.  The phrase "FPS" with reference to MMORPGs has sadly come to mean a very watered-down concept which is not at all what a truly great FPS is at all.  Darkfall, an FPS - what a joke.  Same with MO and Oblivion and Mount & Blade.  Very poor excuses for FPS'.

Originally posted by Andromedus1

If you would please divulge the names of the others.  I know of Darkfall, Mortal Online, Oblivion, and one or two others, but none of them deserve the title "FPS."  Collision detection MMORPG maybe, but not FPS MMORPG.

The current definition for FPS at wikipedia is as follows: 

"First-person shooter (FPS) is a video game genre which centers the gameplay around gun- or projectile weapon-based combat through the first person perspective; i.e., the action is seen through the eyes of a protagonist, and thus the player."

I'm not posting the definition to say that it is the one and only definiton, but to ask you if you agree with that defintion. If not, what is your definition of FPS so that maybe we can understand why you would say MO and DF do not fall into that category.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Too bad i am not a fan of playing JEdi Knights or really any Star Wars type game.This is why i like Fantasy games,they are open to any interpretation,whilst a THEME game MUST follow the theme or it is ruined.

A RPG environment could NEVER play well as a FPS /PVP game.The term RPG stands for Role Playing,it is suppose to allow you to play out the type of game YOU want to play,not what some PVP setting dictates.This alone is why the two should NEVER coincide and will NEVER work properly together.

Then if you have ever been a serious FPS type player,you would know the maps and weapons suite the setting differently than in an open spaced RPG map.FPS games are better suited for PLAYERS only,once you add in a realistic world of MOBS and NPCs it changes the whole setting.

 

This is incorrect. Even in the begining of PnP you had a concept called 'LARPing' where you had players that fought using their personal skill. The adaptation of LARP (live action roleplay) to computer games would be a RPG/FPS hybrid. Something in the spirit of Elder Scrolls Oblivion / Mass Effect, and so forth

People that say you cannot roleplay using your personal skill are not only wrong but are out of touch with their history how roleplay had come into being in the 1st place

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by Wizardry

Too bad i am not a fan of playing JEdi Knights or really any Star Wars type game.This is why i like Fantasy games,they are open to any interpretation,whilst a THEME game MUST follow the theme or it is ruined.

A RPG environment could NEVER play well as a FPS /PVP game.The term RPG stands for Role Playing,it is suppose to allow you to play out the type of game YOU want to play,not what some PVP setting dictates.This alone is why the two should NEVER coincide and will NEVER work properly together.

Then if you have ever been a serious FPS type player,you would know the maps and weapons suite the setting differently than in an open spaced RPG map.FPS games are better suited for PLAYERS only,once you add in a realistic world of MOBS and NPCs it changes the whole setting.

 

 

This is incorrect. Even in the begining of PnP you had a concept called 'LARPing' where you had players that fought using their personal skill. The adaptation of LARP (live action roleplay) to computer games would be a RPG/FPS hybrid. Something in the spirit of Elder Scrolls Oblivion / Mass Effect, and so forth

People that say you cannot roleplay using your personal skill are not only wrong but are out of touch with their history how roleplay had come into being in the 1st place

Wizardry tends to be wrong a lot...

Also, if anybody is actually interested in an upcoming mmofps, they should check out Huxley.

This sounds really interesting. I wil sign up and see if i can bring something to your team : )

Originally posted by Andromedus1

FPS' and RPGs don't get along very well? Quite a loaded and biased statement, not to mention unimaginative. I will agree that no MMO-FPS hybrid has yet been made properly, but to flatly state that "they do not get along" is close-minded at best.

Vrazule, the reasons you give make me think you have not played any of the Jedi Knight games - quite common. Combat in those games is in fact about strategy, about out-thinking your opponent, and about using your surroundings to your advantage. It is much more the case in these games than in any other FPS I've ever played. If you do not have the experience of these games then it is very difficult to convey why this is. The best I can say is that the degree to which magic is at your disposal in real time, the complexity of melee (saber) fighting, and the way in which every move, ranged or melee or magic, has a counter, makes it a game of strategy and thinking. The ability to move acrobatically in many ways, dodging saber slashes and projectiles, only adds to this effect.

For the record, I do not want to hybridize them either, per se, and I was remiss in suggesting that I did. What I want is a truly outstanding RPG that is also an outstanding FPS that is also an outstanding MMO. The next genre will be pure in all of those, hybrid in none.

Wizardry, as to your reasons, to me they suggest you lack vision. I know that sounds like a personal attack but I'd rather be blunt than overly subtle and get nowhere. There is simply no logical reasoning that suggests that being able to decide your own path in an open and immersive gaming world is mutually exclusive to an FPS combat system. The logic is not sound. Yes, I have been a serious FPS player, and a serious MMORPG player, and a serious RTS player, for that matter. An FPS is capable of having "mobs" that are programmed to put up reasonably difficult fights to their opponents, and some FPS' can be played multiplayer. There is no reason to assume that such AI cannot be carried into an MMO setting, complete with NPCs and the like. In fact, I already know that such things are being done.

 

Feena, there are licenses and this is all legal.  I am not a programmer nor am I affiliated with the project, they don't even know I'm trying to garner support forit.  However, I do know that it is all legal, I have asked and they are actually quite well versed in that area.

 

I'm a bit taken back by some of the apparent hostility here.

It's not about logic, it's about taste.  It has been proven with Action Advendure games that they ARE NOT nearly as popular as pure RPG or pure FPS games and I think it's absurd for the OP to state that hybridizing them is the Holy Grail of the genre.

Also to be blunt, you're crazy if you think that the "strategy" of a FPS is anything like that of a RPG.  Just the pace of battle is enough of a difference, but as a result of the pace, RPGs are able to be more immersive and complex because they are slower paced and it wouldn't be fun, if even possible to take a complex MMO and turn it into a FPS and retain that complexity.  The slower the pace, the more complex and in depth you can strategize.  Doesn't take rocket science to understand that concept.

Let's not forget that RPGs are about the skills and abilities of your avatar and FPS are about the player's reflexes and latency.  How the heck do you combine them without trivializing one or the other?  It isn't possible.  So you end up alienating the RPGer with the reflex combat or the FPS with all of the irritating stats and quests.

By the way, opinions by their very nature are biased, so I'm not getting your angle on that one, but whatever.

Interesting.

Add a multiplayer X-Wing Alliance as topping and I'm all yours!

LynxJSA, while you are correct that Darkfall MO Oblivion etc fit the technical definition of "FPS" in that they are first person and do involve some form of shooting, at least to me, they are not created in the true spirit of an FPS. Or, perhaps I should say, their FPS component is not in and of itself high enough quality to be considered worthy of the title in the way it is bantered about (as though one could play it as an FPS, void of its MMORPG components, and be satisfied). Allow me to ramble a minute: I personally believe that there is a sub-genre of FPS games that I would call "strategic FPS" that involve much more than twitch-based reflexes. A game such as half-life, for example, is first and foremost a game of putting a reticle on an opponent, firing, and repeating, and secondarily a game of choosing the right weapon, stance (crouch or stand), movement, positioning, etc., and is void of secondary or tertiary skills to use during rifle-fire. In this way, it is a flat FPS, quite two-dimensional. Even Unreal Tournament is essentially flat, albeit slightly less so with somewhat more complex acrobatics and secondary and tertiary weapon abilities.

A strategic FPS, in my mind, involves some form of complex melee combat, generally involving multiple "stances" each with strengths and weaknesses, each stance with multiple moves (each with its varying counters), a complex shooter element with projectiles that have more flavor than your run-of-the-mill straight-line bullets, an element of "magic" (I'll call it) that allows for minor crowd control of your enemy that itself may be countered by both other forms of "magic" or melee or shooter weapons, and complex movements (or acrobatics) that allow one to use one's surroundings for wall-jumps, running up walls, hanging on ledges, crawling, and so forth. In this kind of FPS, choosing what weapon to use, when to change weapons, when to "cast" a spell, when to fight and what stance to use, and on and on, give it a depth exponentially greater than games made in the spirit of Counterstrike (no offense to CS it's a fun game). /ramble

A truly great FPS MMORPG would have to be a strategic FPS in the sense I have just described in order to allow fights to be enough about decision-making (and less about "put reticle on head") to make them fit an RPG environment.  If you have not played Jedi Academy, I strongly encourage you to try it out, I think it may inspire you (play the single player to learn the game and then try fighting some people online).

Originally posted by Vrazule 

It's not about logic, it's about taste.  It has been proven with Action Advendure games that they ARE NOT nearly as popular as pure RPG or pure FPS games and I think it's absurd for the OP to state that hybridizing them is the Holy Grail of the genre.

Also to be blunt, you're crazy if you think that the "strategy" of a FPS is anything like that of a RPG.  Just the pace of battle is enough of a difference, but as a result of the pace, RPGs are able to be more immersive and complex because they are slower paced and it wouldn't be fun, if even possible to take a complex MMO and turn it into a FPS and retain that complexity.  The slower the pace, the more complex and in depth you can strategize.  Doesn't take rocket science to understand that concept.

Let's not forget that RPGs are about the skills and abilities of your avatar and FPS are about the player's reflexes and latency.  How the heck do you combine them without trivializing one or the other?  It isn't possible.  So you end up alienating the RPGer with the reflex combat or the FPS with all of the irritating stats and quests.

By the way, opinions by their very nature are biased, so I'm not getting your angle on that one, but whatever.

I think logic certainly applies, although it's true you might never enjoy the type of game that I would - but if that's true, why post in this thread demeaning the concept if it is merely about "taste?"  Why flatly state that the genres are diametrically opposed?  Quite illogical if you ask me :P

I'm sorry to say it but you've played the wrong FPS' if you truly believe the strategy of an FPS cannot be like that of an RPG - that, or you simply are not good enough at the right ones to compete (I find this unlikely).  I don't know if you have ever wrestled, or watched or fought in brazilian jiu-jitsu, but some of the greatest fighters fight slow and deliberately, even some with their eyes closed, and other fight frantically and frenzied.  Having many options at your disposal as a fighter allows you to coldly assess your opponents moves and take action methodically, or allows you to frantically flail about.  Again, to suggest that an FPS or TPS (let's be frank, I'm espousing a FPS/TPS here, as JKG will be both) cannot be as immersive or complex as a straight RPG is just an ignorant statement.  That's really all I can say about it.  You will not convince me otherwise and I will not convince you otherwise unless I convince you to play the approprate games at the appropriate level (highly unlikely) so I don't see this conversation progressing much beyond that.

I tried to address some of the reflex question in the rambling at the top of this post.  It is definitely possible to both have reflex combat that is also highly strategic, and neither must be trivialized.  But, I'm not going to convince you of this in a dialogue, so you are free to be on your way believing as you wish.

Cheers.

Edit: I would like to reiterate that I am NOT a programmer or affiliated with the team.  I am just a big believer in what they are doing and trying to do them a favor by promoting the concept and their hard work.