| 161 posts found | |
|---|---|
Paul Barnett: I don't know what the business people have - they have all sorts of crazy numbers, and things to do with shareholders, and things that would probably get me fired. But we're having a staff pool. I put down my bet: a million within the year, and then three million. Eurogamer: That's a confident bet. "You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it's almost embarrassing to listen to you." Zbigniew Brzezinski to Joe Scarborough regarding Clinton and the Middle East on the "Morning Joe" program. |
|
Originally posted by JGMIII
The SC is why the game is failing. Number 1 its splitting the games population in thirds. 1. PVE 2. SC 3. OPVP. You eliminate it you have more pve for opvp. Secondly you can use the same "boring"/zerging arguement for SC's. Hell I would argue it applies more TO SC, as you can easily play a few games real fast. The more people you have bunched together the more likely you are going to be to steamroll the map. Not to mention as fast as you do the maps it can get boring fast. Thirdly it splits the cames content focus up more. It's just better to do away with it and focus on fun stuff for pve and opvp. Like I said. This isnt wow. We don't need bg's. Thanks.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci |
|
Originally posted by ArcheusCross
That's a load of crap. The SC is why the game is failing. Number 1 its splitting the games population in thirds. 1. PVE 2. SC 3. OPVP. You eliminate it you have more pve for opvp. Secondly you can use the same "boring"/zerging arguement for SC's. Hell I would argue it applies more TO SC, as you can easily play a few games real fast. The more people you have bunched together the more likely you are going to be to steamroll the map. Not to mention as fast as you do the maps it can get boring fast. Thirdly it splits the cames content focus up more. It's just better to do away with it and focus on fun stuff for pve and opvp. Like I said. This isnt wow. We don't need bg's. Thanks.
Actually ppl also say the same about WoW, that the instanced BG's are killing the game, yet I see no dip in subscribers to back that up. I thoroughly enjoy doing SC's, I can do them all day and still enjoy them, however I do mix it up a bit and participate in all aspects of the game. However I really want Mythic to do something about PQ's, too many, not enough interest for the harder ones, rewards can be a tad weak for the risk and effort, and the rolling system used to allocate the loot can be too random at times to ensure ppl feel they are adequately rewarded for their efforts.
|
|
Originally posted by popinjay
Paul Barnett: But that's just me, personally. That's not Mythic or EA.
Finished that for you.
|
|
Originally posted by qbangy32
Actually ppl also say the same about WoW, that the instanced BG's are killing the game, yet I see no dip in subscribers to back that up. I thoroughly enjoy doing SC's, I can do them all day and still enjoy them, however I do mix it up a bit and participate in all aspects of the game. However I really want Mythic to do something about PQ's, too many, not enough interest for the harder ones, rewards can be a tad weak for the risk and effort, and the rolling system used to allocate the loot can be too random at times to ensure ppl feel they are adequately rewarded for their efforts.
The difference is that the majority of WoW content is instanced PvE. Prior to WoTLK open world pvp had little to no effect on the way the game was played. I didn't play into WoTLK so I'm not certain on the benefits the new PvP areas brought. Open world pvp in WAR makes a huge difference. One of the problems besides scenarios taking a chunk of players, is that it's not treated as a minigame. BGs in WoW are minigames, and affect the mingame aspects of the overall game. You play arena and BGs, get the welfare epics so you can pvp without dying immediately. While the overall focus is still mostly PvE, and that's why people play WoW. I don't think I've heard a big promotion of the great pvp WoW has to offer. WARs bread and butter is pvp, which unless they address the severe performance issues will continue to hamper the heavily pushed army on army conflicts. I think that issue must be address over all other concerns at this time. |
|
Originally posted by joswij
1. As long as you make a PvP based game with hampered game play as in unresponsive control of your clunky avatars in War, you run into problems. A PvP based game MUST have the best fluid, fastest responsive controls. Period. 2. There are actually more PvP options in Wow than in War. Arena ? BG's are bigger and more themed. Daily open world PvP quests eliminate the RvR zones (which most players avoid) and Lake Wintergrasp is even too massively played in Wow (on every server every 2.5 hours multiple raid fights). Of course the fast, frantic and very responsive controls are the basis for this. 3. EA speaks now of "300K dedicated WAR "players", no longer of subscriptions. It clearly means they include the free trial accounts and no longer the subscribers only. And at under 3000K Xfire players it means that the game has (again) lost its 5500 Xfire number of players around Christmas 2008 (and the 15.000 Xfire daily players at launch in Sep 2008). ------ Mythic used a wrong engine for mmorpg pvp play. The game is designed to be a pvp game but it doesn't have its fluid mechanics. Both in controls and in animation (ever saw a dwarf taking 5 steps at a time on a stair ???). Pure PvP players demand FULL and utterly unhampered controls of their avatars. PvP players are mostly the individual type of players. They want to compare, have a competition and talk about stats and tactics. War gives no stats (no duels/arenas), has no competition and no data to compare. PvP zerg fests with the bigger group that gets healed "wins", are not very attractive for most PvP players in the long run. Perhaps it is a deformation of PvP due to games like Wow and GW's, but is a reality because games are still being played individually...
|
|
Yep, good job. You just finished Pheace's point for him that you argued against. That's how the #2 or #3 man at Mythic felt about WAR's future subscriptions. "You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it's almost embarrassing to listen to you." Zbigniew Brzezinski to Joe Scarborough regarding Clinton and the Middle East on the "Morning Joe" program. |
|
|
Spaceweed10
Novice Member
Joined: 4/01/08
"Any attempt to glean joy from this torrid husk of an entertainment product is met with disdain." |
Originally posted by ArcheusCross
The SC is why the game is failing. Number 1 its splitting the games population in thirds. 1. PVE 2. SC 3. OPVP. You eliminate it you have more pve for opvp. Secondly you can use the same "boring"/zerging arguement for SC's. Hell I would argue it applies more TO SC, as you can easily play a few games real fast. The more people you have bunched together the more likely you are going to be to steamroll the map. Not to mention as fast as you do the maps it can get boring fast. Thirdly it splits the cames content focus up more. It's just better to do away with it and focus on fun stuff for pve and opvp. Like I said. This isnt wow. We don't need bg's. Thanks.
That is a load of crap, and purely a personal opinion which has no value, apart from to yourself. I carried on playing War for a lot longer than I would have done, if it hadn't had scenarios. The rest of the game is utter bullshit devised by people with the imagination of a goldfish. |
|
With better mmos ahead of us like Champions Online and Aion, do some of you really think that WAR will actually survive another year ? It might but only because they will be reluctant to shutdown the servers because they still want to squeeze whatever money they can from the game. |
|
|
Spaceweed10
Novice Member
Joined: 4/01/08
"Any attempt to glean joy from this torrid husk of an entertainment product is met with disdain." |
Originally posted by LynxJSA
Paul Barnett: But that's just me, personally. That's not Mythic or EA.
Finished that for you.
I'd like to see what his revised guesstimate is now. I think he has a problem with decimal points - this game will be lucky to have 30k subs in 3 yrs time. Unless of course, they completely redesign the game and engine and employ someone who has a modicum of creativity. |
Originally posted by Zorndorf
1. As long as you make a PvP based game with hampered game play as in unresponsive control of your clunky avatars in War, you run into problems. A PvP based game MUST have the best fluid, fastest responsive controls. Period. 2. There are actually more PvP options in Wow than in War. Arena ? BG's are bigger and more themed. Daily open world PvP quests eliminate the RvR zones (which most players avoid) and Lake Wintergrasp is even too massively played in Wow (on every server every 2.5 hours multiple raid fights). Of course the fast, frantic and very responsive controls are the basis for this. 3. EA speaks now of "300K dedicated WAR "players", no longer of subscriptions. It clearly means they include the free trial accounts and no longer the subscribers only. And at under 3000K Xfire players it means that the game has (again) lost its 5500 Xfire number of players around Christmas 2008 (and the 15.000 Xfire daily players at launch in Sep 2008). ------ Mythic used a wrong engine for mmorpg pvp play. The game is designed to be a pvp game but it doesn't have its fluid mechanics. Both in controls and in animation (ever saw a dwarf taking 5 steps at a time on a stair ???). Pure PvP players demand FULL and utterly unhampered controls of their avatars. PvP players are mostly the individual type of players. They want to compare, have a competition and talk about stats and tactics. War gives no stats (no duels/arenas), has no competition and no data to compare. PvP zerg fests with the bigger group that gets healed "wins", are not very attractive for most PvP players in the long run. Perhaps it is a deformation of PvP due to games like Wow and GW's, but is a reality because games are still being played individually...
That's a load of crap. I don't care how well WoW runs it still doesn't have better pvp. I don't care if they have "arenas" to go along with BGs and Lake Wintergrasp. There's no comparison to the amount of pvp in the two games. And I do not find arena ratings attractive. I do not feel the need for those individual statistics you speak of. I RvR/PvP to have fun and hopefully accomplish something (and I consider taking a keep or something ten times the accomplishment of having an XXXX arena rating). And guess what - if they do desire those individual stats to compare - go farm some RPs so you can stroke your epeen when your name shows up on the most RP earned that week or whatever. PvP players are the most individual type of player? What about the epeen stroking DPS chart watchers in WoW? The ones who go psycho over a piece of meaningless gear so they can achieve 10 more deeps to beat out that mage on the charts. Same with healing. And - No - they don't include free trial accounts into that number. I'm glad you're enjoying WoW - because that was WoW slurpfest in your post. |
|
Originally posted by Plaidpants
That's a load of crap. I don't care how well WoW runs it still doesn't have better pvp. I don't care if they have "arenas" to go along with BGs and Lake Wintergrasp. There's no comparison to the amount of pvp in the two games. And I do not find arena ratings attractive. I do not feel the need for those individual statistics you speak of. I RvR/PvP to have fun and hopefully accomplish something (and I consider taking a keep or something ten times the accomplishment of having an XXXX arena rating). And guess what - if they do desire those individual stats to compare - go farm some RPs so you can stroke your epeen when your name shows up on the most RP earned that week or whatever. PvP players are the most individual type of player? What about the epeen stroking DPS chart watchers in WoW? The ones who go psycho over a piece of meaningless gear so they can achieve 10 more deeps to beat out that mage on the charts. Same with healing. And - No - they don't include free trial accounts into that number. I'm glad you're enjoying WoW - because that was WoW slurpfest in your post.
Well opinions do vary. I respect your opinion. But the vast majority "could" think otherwise ... or people would still be playing Warhammer massively (as in 800K subs or above like they did at launch). I just pointed out some very obvious shortcomings when I played War (to me that is). It made the game not "fun" to play to me. No one is right, no one is wrong, but I only wanted to point out the views of some excellent PvP players I know in real life and who happened to play the two games. They play to be "up there" not "down there in some grey mass". As for the DPS chart watchers... they are mostly pure PVE players (and bad ones I may say), because every good pvp player knows it is more about CC, counter spells, fast reactions, LOS and positioning (as in attacking from the back ignores dodge ratings). ----- And .. where are the data to discuss over in War? No results pages, no data of class interactions in a competitive form at all. So HOW even to discuss class balances or imbalances ? The competition in War is only in a very limited RvR form, but ... most people don't give shit about RvR. Most people play to advance their avatars. That kind of lack of competition sucks big for a lot of PvP players. It is like constantly running 100 meters without ever declaring a winner or classification. It is clearly not adressed to all PvP players and the hampered controls did the rest: result is less and less players are interested in the long run. You conquer a fortress (knocking on a door to enter) and so what. You look back an hour later and it is being reconquered. Exactly the same thing as Wintergrasp, but at least in that game you can have a competition in pvp in another branche of the game... with stats and results to play for like titles. You may have ALL the fun in the world (re)conquering that Keep a "zillion" times. But eventually it will wear you down by simply lack of options and competition.
|
|
Originally posted by Newhopes Sorry to break it to you but they won't be makeing anywhere near that much.
Edit: The recession has nothing to do with falling subs if anything most mmorpgs are seeing increased subs because of it. Yeah I think people have more time for MMOs if anything......If nothing else people may give games like WAR a shot because it offers a free trial.......Also even unemployed 15 bucks a month isnt bad........ |
|
|
[quote][i]Originally posted by Zorndorf[/i] [quote][i]Originally posted by Plaidpants[/i] [quote][i]Originally posted by Zorndorf[/i] [quote][i]Originally posted by joswij[/i] The difference is that the majority of WoW content is instanced PvE. Prior to WoTLK open world pvp had little to no effect on the way the game was played. I didn't play into WoTLK so I'm not certain on the benefits the new PvP areas brought. Open world pvp in WAR makes a huge difference. One of the problems besides scenarios taking a chunk of players, is that it's not treated as a minigame. BGs in WoW are minigames, and affect the mingame aspects of the overall game. You play arena and BGs, get the welfare epics so you can pvp without dying immediately. While the overall focus is still mostly PvE, and that's why people play WoW. I don't think I've heard a big promotion of the great pvp WoW has to offer. WARs bread and butter is pvp, which unless they address the severe performance issues will continue to hamper the heavily pushed army on army conflicts. I think that issue must be address over all other concerns at this time. [/quote] 1. As long as you make a PvP based game with hampered game play as in unresponsive control of your clunky avatars in War, you run into problems. A PvP based game MUST have the best fluid, fastest responsive controls. Period. 2. There are actually more PvP options in Wow than in War. Arena ? BG's are bigger and more themed. Daily open world PvP quests eliminate the RvR zones (which most players avoid) and Lake Wintergrasp is even too massively played in Wow (on every server every 2.5 hours multiple raid fights). Of course the fast, frantic and very responsive controls are the basis for this. 3. EA speaks now of "300K dedicated WAR "players", [u]no longer of subscriptions[/u]. It clearly means they include the free trial accounts and no longer the subscribers only. And at under 3000K Xfire players it means that the game has (again) lost its 5500 Xfire number of players around Christmas 2008 (and the 15.000 Xfire daily players at launch in Sep 2008). ------ Mythic used a wrong engine for mmorpg pvp play. The game is designed to be a pvp game but it doesn't have its fluid mechanics. Both in controls and in animation (ever saw a dwarf taking 5 steps at a time on a stair ???). Pure PvP players demand FULL and utterly unhampered controls of their avatars. PvP players are mostly the individual type of players. They want to compare, have a competition and talk about stats and tactics. War gives no stats (no duels/arenas), has no competition and no data to compare. PvP zerg fests with the bigger group that gets healed "wins", are not very attractive for most PvP players in the long run. Perhaps it is a deformation of PvP due to games like Wow and GW's, but is a reality because games are still being played individually... [/quote] That's a load of crap. I don't care how well WoW runs it still doesn't have better pvp. I don't care if they have "arenas" to go along with BGs and Lake Wintergrasp. There's no comparison to the amount of pvp in the two games. And I do not find arena ratings attractive. I do not feel the need for those individual statistics you speak of. I RvR/PvP to have fun and hopefully accomplish something (and I consider taking a keep or something ten times the accomplishment of having an XXXX arena rating). And guess what - if they do desire those individual stats to compare - go farm some RPs so you can stroke your epeen when your name shows up on the most RP earned that week or whatever. PvP players are the most individual type of player? What about the epeen stroking DPS chart watchers in WoW? The ones who go psycho over a piece of meaningless gear so they can achieve 10 more deeps to beat out that mage on the charts. Same with healing. And - No - they don't include free trial accounts into that number. I'm glad you're enjoying WoW - because that was WoW slurpfest in your post. [/quote] [u]Well opinions do vary[/u]. I respect your opinion. But the vast majority "could" think otherwise ... or people would still be playing Warhammer massively (as in 800K subs or above like they did at launch). I just pointed out some very obvious shortcomings when I played War (to me that is). It made the game not "fun" to play to me. No one is right, no one is wrong, but I only wanted to point out the views of some excellent PvP players I know in real life and who happened to play the two games. They play to be "up there" not "down there in some grey mass". As for the DPS chart watchers... they are mostly pure PVE players (and bad ones I may say), because every good pvp player knows it is more about CC, counter spells, fast reactions, LOS and positioning (as in attacking from the back ignores dodge ratings). ----- And .. where are the data to discuss over in War? No results pages, no data of class interactions in a competitive form at all. So HOW even to discuss class balances or imbalances ? The competition in War is only in a very limited RvR form, but ... most people don't give shit about RvR. Most people play to advance their avatars. That kind of lack of competition sucks big for a lot of PvP players. It is like constantly running 100 meters without ever declaring a winner or classification. It is clearly not adressed to all PvP players and the hampered controls did the rest: result is less and less players are interested in the long run. You conquer a fortress (knocking on a door to enter) and so what. You look back an hour later and it is being reconquered. Exactly the same thing as Wintergrasp, but at least in that game you can have a competition in pvp in another branche of the game... with stats and results to play for like titles. You may have ALL the fun in the world (re)conquering that Keep a "zillion" times. But eventually it will wear you down by simply lack of options and competition. [/quote]
discuss this realmwar.warhammeronline.com/realmwar/CharacterLeaderboards.war 
|
|
Originally posted by Zorndorf
That's a load of crap. I don't care how well WoW runs it still doesn't have better pvp. I don't care if they have "arenas" to go along with BGs and Lake Wintergrasp. There's no comparison to the amount of pvp in the two games. And I do not find arena ratings attractive. I do not feel the need for those individual statistics you speak of. I RvR/PvP to have fun and hopefully accomplish something (and I consider taking a keep or something ten times the accomplishment of having an XXXX arena rating). And guess what - if they do desire those individual stats to compare - go farm some RPs so you can stroke your epeen when your name shows up on the most RP earned that week or whatever. PvP players are the most individual type of player? What about the epeen stroking DPS chart watchers in WoW? The ones who go psycho over a piece of meaningless gear so they can achieve 10 more deeps to beat out that mage on the charts. Same with healing. And - No - they don't include free trial accounts into that number. I'm glad you're enjoying WoW - because that was WoW slurpfest in your post.
Well opinions do vary. I respect your opinion. But the vast majority "could" think otherwise ... or people would still be playing Warhammer massively (as in 800K subs or above like they did at launch). I just pointed out some very obvious shortcomings when I played War (to me that is). It made the game not "fun" to play to me. No one is right, no one is wrong, but I only wanted to point out the views of some excellent PvP players I know in real life and who happened to play the two games. They play to be "up there" not "down there in some grey mass". As for the DPS chart watchers... they are mostly pure PVE players (and bad ones I may say), because every good pvp player knows it is more about CC, counter spells, fast reactions, LOS and positioning (as in attacking from the back ignores dodge ratings). ----- And .. where are the data to discuss over in War? No results pages, no data of class interactions in a competitive form at all. So HOW even to discuss class balances or imbalances ? The competition in War is only in a very limited RvR form, but ... most people don't give shit about RvR. Most people play to advance their avatars. That kind of lack of competition sucks big for a lot of PvP players. It is like constantly running 100 meters without ever declaring a winner or classification. It is clearly not adressed to all PvP players and the hampered controls did the rest: result is less and less players are interested in the long run. You conquer a fortress (knocking on a door to enter) and so what. You look back an hour later and it is being reconquered. Exactly the same thing as Wintergrasp, but at least in that game you can have a competition in pvp in another branche of the game... with stats and results to play for like titles. You may have ALL the fun in the world (re)conquering that Keep a "zillion" times. But eventually it will wear you down by simply lack of options and competition.
I know the dps watchers are purely PvE people. That's why I brought it up - because PvE players are just as much or more about stats and their individual player than PvP players. And the fortress/keep taking needs some changes - but it managed to occupy and satisfy tons and tons of people for quite awhile in DAoC - including me and those keeps were conquered a zillion times as well. (and yes - I'm aware the RvR/keep sieges and stuff isn't up to DAoC's standards but the game is new at this point) |
|
|
Server mergers will keep the game alive! |
|
Originally posted by Kerebo
They really need a couple more. I play on Vortex and it is one of the lower core ones left - not much at all in t2 or t3. I really hope they don't hold out too long though - because it will cause even more to quit if it gets any worse on some of the lower pop servers. |
|
Originally posted by ParkCarsHere
Poor Mythic, Bet Mark is rather livid getting beat by a lil ole niche game. Darkfall News |
|
Originally posted by Pyrostasis
Poor Mythic, Bet Mark is rather livid getting beat by a lil ole niche game.
How about we wait a few more years to judge. And to call EvE a lil ole niche game is dumb. It's one of the most successful mmorpgs on the market right now. |
|
|
Think WAR is gonna dip some more in the playerbase, but something will come and get the numbers back up again I think |
|
Originally posted by Kerebo
No doubt the expansion is going to make the playerbase spike again, that happens with all MMO's, even complainers tend to give it another try "just in case".
I'd be more worried about new MMO releases in the future, i think those could hurt WAR the most.
WAR could grab a decent steady 500k subs probably if they manage to do a turnaround and fix up their game, kind of like AoC "apparently" has done(minus the boost in subs, lol).
|
|
|
Seems to be the rule nowdays to release a MMO before it's ready for release. I cannot figure out the reasons myself, sure, you get a lot of paying "beta testers". But you also ensure that you will leave a poor taste in the consumers mouth with your half completed product. And that taste is hard to remove, and we see many games now that will never reach any high numbers due to releasing a beta product and scaring off the customers or just making them angry to pay to beta test their game and thereby not continuing to subscribe. The tank that is born to tank! |
|
Originally posted by Auxer
Well some of that is because Corporate doesn't understand it.. or at least not the investors. What they see is money they invested and money spent over a period of time with no money coming back in (yet). This is the major advantage a privately owned and financed company has over any corporate or company that uses outside investors.
On the other hand I got into WAR beta at the start of Phase 2 I guess.. I think it was the end of Phase 1 because there was a pretty big down time while they revamped things.. but anyway...
I really liked how the beta was run.. by that I mean they removed testers who were just being obstacles. There was very little Ahat ratio until Phase 3. Altho I will admit I saw the most post asking to be removed from beta for WAR than any beta I've been in (beta'd most MMO's since UO). I'm not sure why that is.
The bad side of beta was... things were how they were going to be. You were not allowed to say "this is not fun.. if you changed it to this.. it would be fun."
If you did that James gave you a nice warning to provide feedback on the system as it was or that you would be removed from beta... *edit for clarification* This isn't talking about some form of nerd rage and forum spam resulting in warnings... I do mean entirely you were not allowed to suggest any alternative other than feedback on the system as it was... no matter how bad you or everyone (most everyone) thought it was.
So in that sense... my feeling was.. if you give me a pile of crap.. no matter how much sugar I sprinkle on it.. its still crap.
Translate that to: If your customers are telling you a paticular mechanic, system or even the entire core game.. is not fun. You might want to listen to that and figure out what it means... other wise you will have these systems YOU wanted and very few customers.
I honestly have no idea why it was like that.. I've never seen any other beta like that. In the past I've seen many concepts actually incorporated or things changed in pretty radical ways that really did improve things. Just wasn't allowed in that beta.
/shrug Being able to choose the skills you want to use, offers much less variety than pre-made class based systems. -Future Game Developer |
|
Originally posted by trillah
I think a lot of people fail to realize that ISP's charge unbelievable amounts of money for bandwitdth. I remember a developer for EQ I stating that they spent more than a million a month for bandwitdth back in 2000 or so and I'm sure it's much more expensive now. |
|
Originally posted by Newhopes
--The most recent info on Warhammer Online puts the game's dedicated player base at 300,000. Well, if the number is from the last month that is true, but this sounds kinda unclear to me, they can also mean the numbers from this winter that we already knows about which was the same. Still, if the launch would have been a succes we would have heard about it. Mythic needs to make sure that players stay longer, make T3 & 4 funnier and make RvR more rewarding are my suggestions. They also need to iron out the remaining buggs. This is not a disaster however since the need over 250K to make a profit but if players quit after a shorter period of subbing that is bad in the long run. Mythic needs to work very hard to turn things around now, the Warhammer IP deservers nothing less. |
|
