Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by TheHavok

I do like boobies....i'll give you that

 

 

I endorse this message.

your posting is a bit confusing

what I look for in a game  is organic immersion

need for food and drink  and  different types of clothing,  and localized resources that will promote trade, not a nationalized resource and auction house.

I want to feel as though i steped into an (idealized) alternate reality  if theres water  there should be boats

there should be winter and real rainstorms, the occasional plague or pestilance to deal with

there should be player kingdoms

players should start out  like pesants or urchant kids   they should hear stories about those that came before them 

there should a be real  attempt to flesh out  class types   rogues should have stuff to steal, people to spy on  even be beat up and thrown into jail.  

wizards should have basic practicle magics     that they expand on and build up   like a small "match" spell can give light and set something afire  

as for priest types they should definatly have a faction to be part of an order with  life long quests for their given church such as converts or tighs or sacrafices

druid types should be much more in tune with nature  and that means comunicating with animals maby as info providers  or quest givers

I tend to believe in a skill base system  so a mage can learn to pick pockets  if he wants to  but it costs him more that it would a rogue and means he can learn less in his own class at a given level

I also prefer a default + bonus mentality   that is a warmonger wants to head off to adventure all he needs to do is purchass some jerkey and water  which will omit any food or water penalties, but others can aquire or make more complicated and diverse meals  and gain some extra benefit.   same for gardening  someone can throw down some seed and water and in a few days get a default yeald, where a farmer that works and tends the fields gets a larger yeald.

I also prefer content that suprises  players doesnt make them feel like a rat in the same old maze   I have yet to fight statues that come alive in a temple  I have never bashed my way through a door or wall in a believeable way,  and 99.9% of the dungeons are basicly  brute force   there are no allounances for  climbing walls  or bribery  or baiting let alone from puzzles.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Thradar

 This article comes across as being written by someone who is bitter and spiteful.  Is it really necessary to use the term "tits" in an article that represents your site mmorpg.com?

Yeesh.  You can do better than this.

Actually, in this article, the author uses the term "tits" in a satirical way, highlighting the often immature attitudes toward breasts that are taken in video games.

tits and vicious injuries wouldnt be that big of deal  if they were  wernt thought of as    news worthy  and just part of the background!    in AOC  they were a novelty for about 5 minutes (maby 10)  but that wasnt enough to save a crappy rehash of a game.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by TheHavok

I do like boobies....i'll give you that

 

 

I endorse this message.

Who is that anyway?

Her name is Alizee. She is a french singer.  www.youtube.com/watch

For the most part (with the exception of the derivative mediocrity point) the article sounds like the development process of Guild Wars. Throw in the derivative mediocrity, and now we're talking about GW2.

Good article, Sanya; I thought it really higlights the major problems with MMO development.

I particularly liked this heading.

"This product contains no features added solely because someone in our department thought they "sounded sexy."

I can well imagine a conversation going something like this.

Marketing Cheerleader: Lord of the Rings Online is very popular, we need hobbits in this game to be popular also.

Dev: Our MMO is a spaceship simulation similar to EVE on....

Marketing Cheerleader: Eve on what?! Two things we need to stay away from is religion and politics, so put those Hobbits in like a good dev.

Game releases as a spaceship MMO with a "Hobbit" class frigate.

Game closes after a long legal battle with the Tolkien estate for using the copyrighted term Hobbit.

Originally posted by Sanya

if you gotta tell people it's a joke, it loses 30% of the funny

Actually, it's 35%.

Marketing can so F *** up a game.  I know its not cost effective but anyone that makes copy for a game should play that poison so they know what the heck they are writing about.

Good read Sanya.

Originally posted by gnlLucid

Pretty bad when the editor has to continually defend "satire".

This was not satire, it was a nice attempt, but not "satire".....  I "got it"... but then again I have actually worked for multiple development studios with released games...

It just sounded like someone who hasn't the slight idea of how a business is ran in the real world.

What games?

Good piece, especially the "we decided to shoot for derivative mediocrity, and you're going to lap it up" section.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by TheHavok

I do like boobies....i'll give you that

 

 

I endorse this message.

Who is that anyway?

She is the girl the female Night Elf /dance is modeled after in WoW.

Eh, the article was too scattered and erratic without having any of the blunt comedy that it usuall brings.  I get it that she's trying to do stuff that harkens back to the Tweety days but eh.  Trying to split the difference just sorta makes the whole thing fall flat.

Originally posted by TheHavok

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by TheHavok

I do like boobies....i'll give you that

 

 

I endorse this message.

Who is that anyway?

 

Her name is Alizee. She is a french singer.  www.youtube.com/watch

 

She looks like she's 15. {mod edit}

Excellent article. Just goes to show, you can cover something in crap. And it can still be good.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Thradar

 This article comes across as being written by someone who is bitter and spiteful.  Is it really necessary to use the term "tits" in an article that represents your site mmorpg.com?

Yeesh.  You can do better than this.

Actually, in this article, the author uses the term "tits" in a satirical way, highlighting the often immature attitudes toward breasts that are taken in video games.

I think that "boobies" is a much better word then "breasts" which is much more in line with mans tribute to the female form.

Anyways, good writing, Tanya.

Great article.

I'm reading all your blogs and articles here on MMORPG.COM and I must say - it was much needed. About time someone has brought us the real thing, not PR talk and "dreamy immages". That's also sure reason why many people here complain that something in this article hurt their feelings or just isn't "right". MMO players tend to delude themselves, they don't even need any help - they're wasting huge amounts of time in some case, so they need to think "idealistic" about something in their games. Just to feel better. Of course, they complain, they rant too - but in the core they're very often delusioned as well, just don't know about it.

I find this article very accurate. My favorite game is Dungeons & Dragons Online (look at my signature), and while I stll think it's the best MMO RPG out there and has the best, more honest team than from any other game I've played - I know they're guilty of those sins you mentioned too.

Just look at new page of D&D Online:
www.ddo.com
forums.ddo.com

Isn't that what you Sanya wrote about? ; )

I think that Turbine's DDO team is 100% true example of all you have written on mmorpg.com to date. The good things, the bad thing, the PR / reality etc. But still I think they're doing all you wrote the best in this industry - especially "uniquness" and "orignal features". Yes, just try this game Sanya and see it yourself, I bet you'd be surprised.

Of course they also failed to include enough polish at the start, so DDO after premiere got pretty deserted - and since that time it climbs higher and higher. Quality over quantity, while frustrating for veteran players, is a good policy - and it shows now.

About 2 months ago Fernando Paiz, a new chief of DDO team, said that DDO will have an aggresive marketing push in 2009 to grow the game. Not long after, new, highly polished and modern site came - with Boobies, of course!
Ok, I don't see anything bad here - DDO needs more and more players, because this game should be a major player in my opinion. But this article here showed me that this is pretty cheap, works well and... distracts very well. As Module 9 and some "Super Secret" for which we wait about 9 months wihout any knowledge what it is still aren't there, they throw us such things to borrow our time.
Of course, it's now pretty clear that Turbine can't tell us about this "SS" and release Module 9 just because something "higher" (law? licence problem?) doesn't allow them - so I really don't envy their situation, especially Community team which takes all the fire. But they do what they can - small tidbits of info, competitions (motivational posters?? forums.ddo.com/showthread.php), etc. I think this is exactly the job you're writing about Sanya, so I'd recommed you checking out DDO (D&D Online). I think it's pretty great example of all you reveal to us, players - the good, the bad, the awesome and the ugly.

I'll continue to read your articles as theire so interesting that I check for some new article almost each day. This "behind the scenes" look at MMO development is probably a precedence on the whole Internet - and there's also Jesse who writes similar thing. Great job people and MMORPG.COM for all this, this is needed - MMO players need to wake up from their dreams and start to think more constructively. I'm totally bored with all this ranting based on nothing else but "made up facts and false assumptions" which players all over the world take as reality. MMO players - you need some (rude?) awakening!

Come back to reality, people! It's still the same world you see throgh the window!

If the 5th one ever happens to come to pass, that studio needs to hire me.

You want people clamped down on, I'm your man. =)

@Sallas89: Your IQ must be this high to post here.

Originally posted by gnlLucid

Pretty bad when the editor has to continually defend "satire".

This was not satire, it was a nice attempt, but not "satire".....  I "got it"... but then again I have actually worked for multiple development studios with released games...

It just sounded like someone who hasn't the slight idea of how a business is ran in the real world.

Spoken like a true marketing drone. Let's see the points the article touched:

1. Planned, not hacked together

2. No feature creep

3. Tits

4. Following the crowd

5. Actual QA

Ignoring 3 (everyone loves tits), what issues do you have with the other points? 4 may be questionable, granted, but 1, 2, and 5 sound like pretty good business practice to me. News flash to you morons in marketing, product doesn't magically work perfectly at version one point oh. There's a reason so many failed games companies (and non-games companies too, for that matter) have histories littered with kludged development processes, throwing in features and options in at the last minute, and not beta testing / running through QA. It shows.

I guess it's hard to grasp what quality control involves if you're just one of the peons down in PR who spend their lives busy putting out spin.

Originally posted by gnlLucid

Pretty bad when the editor has to continually defend "satire".

This was not satire, it was a nice attempt, but not "satire".....  I "got it"... but then again I have actually worked for multiple development studios with released games...

It just sounded like someone who hasn't the slight idea of how a business is ran in the real world.

So, am I the only person on this forum who doesn't work in the video game industry? Because so many people posts with things like; "I've been in the industry for a while", or, "I've been in video games since EQ 1.0" Why are there so many pissing contests online, anyway?

Originally posted by ninjajucer

The article does point out a serious and often occurring flaw in today's industries in that companies tend to go over the top in order to get their player base for their game. AoC went for a hardcore mature look, but the game lacked a fun factor. DAoC went for a fun PvP type atmosphere, but never went further with the idea and that stagnated the population. EQ was innovative and after doing everything, you were left with nothing. EQ2 gave more of the same. SWG did it right, then went ahead and gave the something for everybody a flip which became everything for somebody and thus didn't work out.

The point is, that these companies, all MMOs whether free or not all grasp a niche audience with some sort of marketing scheme, from hardcore to casual, ninja looters to Bind on Pickup, nudity to anime. Every one of these games has made mistakes because a dev thought it was a good idea at the time. The problem with all of these companies comes down to one common problem. Ego.

After all, what MMO game has ever taken back a game-breaking patch or expansion and stated that they admit the idea really didn't work, so we'll undo the changes. Fact is, not one game dev will ever admit to failure. After all of this Sanya does point out that while devs and designers have many flaws due to inflated egos, they are still human and subject to the same peer pressures and politics of life in general as everyone else.

All the MMOs are fun to someone, always somebody will welcome the newest push for a new pizazz be it nudity, dungeon, expansion or whatever. And with those choice, always will there be someone who thinks otherwise.

On three occasions in the last year and a half, the EQ2 team has rolled back one or more planned features of a Game Update after experiences on the Test/Q&A server proved that the idea didn't work so well in execution.  The most recent was GU 51 in it's original form.  Big changes were made to how fighters handled aggro through taunts and DPS.  The changes didn't quite work out, so the team rolled them back and went back to the drawing board.

It's the lack of quality in the industry.. A lot of money being pissed away on complete poorly made titles, the bummer being that thepublishers of this "CRAP" are making a profit  while completely pissing off the end user, who is on his last straw and pretty much boycotting the industry and gone forum flamer.

Kinda like this post.. I mean, I enjoyed the humor attempt and aspect of making complete fun of the industry and their horrible marketing strategies.. but the post itself seems to be written by someone with no English skills.. and quite frankly no much industry knowledge...

Ironic