With WOW aging and a lot of lesser MMO's not (or no longer) hitting the mark, now is a great time for something new to come out. 

Things I would hope not to see in a new fantasy MMO:

1)  Steampunk or sci-fi.  I guess I am a purist, but to me medieval fantasy ought to keep true to "medieval" + "fantasy".  Steam-powered motorcycles and airplanes do not go with plate armor and swords, even in a fantasy world.

2)  Overly-involved tutorials.  Too much hand-holding can come across as forced gameplay and is a hit on immersion.

3)  Linear themepark design.  I want to play in a "world", not in a themepark.  

4)  Hundreds of quests.  I think quests should be few in number, and designed around results rather than acting out some linear scene.  (WOLTK is a great example of exactly what I do NOT want to see ever, ever, ever again.)

5)  Crappy cartoonish overdone weapon graphics. 

6)  Giant dinosaurs that are low level and go down with two swipes of a sword while a deer is level 70.  This does NOT make sense.

7)  Joking references to the modern world.  Good for a wry grin or laugh, but a hit on immersion.

One word:

ELVES

I hates 'em.

Originally posted by pencilrick

1)  Steampunk or sci-fi.  I guess I am a purist, but to me medieval fantasy ought to keep true to "medieval" + "fantasy".  Steam-powered motorcycles and airplanes do not go with plate armor and swords, even in a fantasy world.
I'll give you this...

2)  Overly-involved tutorials.  Too much hand-holding can come across as forced gameplay and is a hit on immersion.
Yea too much can hurt, but too little hurts more.

3)  Linear themepark design.  I want to play in a "world", not in a themepark.
no comment..

4)  Hundreds of quests.  I think quests should be few in number, and designed around results rather than acting out some linear scene.  (WOLTK is a great example of exactly what I do NOT want to see ever, ever, ever again.)
I like questing.
I would like them not to be the only way to level.
Actually remove XP gain from quest and just make them for money, gear, and learning more about the lore of the game.

5)  Crappy cartoonish overdone weapon graphics. 

6)  Giant dinosaurs that are low level and go down with two swipes of a sword while a deer is level 70.  This does NOT make sense.

7)  Joking references to the modern world.  Good for a wry grin or laugh, but a hit on immersion.

5,6,7 I give you these too... but I really couldn't care less about immersion.

 @Ilvaldyr
Why the hate for Elves?

I am a purist too. In Fantasy MMOs I dont like seeing steampunk or rifles etc. In the end, I want fantasy to be pure sword and sorcery

Also, I hate gnomes

Elves...inludes all subcategories  such as Wood,High,Dark,Porn:) ..

Dwarfs..same

Orcs ....same

Edit: gnomes ...same

Originally posted by pencilrick

With WOW aging and a lot of lesser MMO's not (or no longer) hitting the mark, now is a great time for something new to come out. 

Things I would hope not to see in a new fantasy MMO:

1)  Steampunk or sci-fi.  I guess I am a purist, but to me medieval fantasy ought to keep true to "medieval" + "fantasy".  Steam-powered motorcycles and airplanes do not go with plate armor and swords, even in a fantasy world.

2)  Overly-involved tutorials.  Too much hand-holding can come across as forced gameplay and is a hit on immersion.

3)  Linear themepark design.  I want to play in a "world", not in a themepark.  

4)  Hundreds of quests.  I think quests should be few in number, and designed around results rather than acting out some linear scene.  (WOLTK is a great example of exactly what I do NOT want to see ever, ever, ever again.)

5)  Crappy cartoonish overdone weapon graphics. 

6)  Giant dinosaurs that are low level and go down with two swipes of a sword while a deer is level 70.  This does NOT make sense.

7)  Joking references to the modern world.  Good for a wry grin or laugh, but a hit on immersion.

I like Steampunk. That being said, I agree on not tossing a bit of steam punk into an otherwise fantasy world. If you're going Steampunk, then make the entire world Steampunk and be done with it. If you go whole hog steampunk, I'll play, but don't add just a touuch of steampunk here and there, it's out of place.

I don't mind quests if I don't have to do them. Some people like them. If I have an alternative to doing quests that's fine. I do like the major quest, every 5 levels or so that's rather epic. Those are fun, not a bazillion crappy little quests.

Agree on the dino's and deer. I just killed a dino, and then a deer eats me for breakfast. WTF?

I don't like WoW graphics, to cartoony for me. I prefer DAoC, EQ2, Vanguard, etc.

I'm ok with jokes. My immersion is tougher to break down than yours.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

One word:

ELVES

I hates 'em.

How can you hate these poor elven creatures?

I think the dino and deer situation is too general. Maybe the dino was a small one and the deer was a demigod? Who knows...I really have never ran into something and felt it was too strong for its appearance, but I can not say the same for the other side of the coin.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

One word:

ELVES

I hates 'em.

 

How can you hate these poor elven creatures?

 

 

a/s/l?

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

One word:

ELVES

I hates 'em.

I hate the classic Tolkien-style Elves. I like it when they're unique.

I think *a lot* of MMORPG's, especially fantasy MMORPG's, totally miss the mark when it comes to one of the least discussed, though still important aspect of a game: the music.

It seems MMO's suffer two fates when it comes to the tunes.

1) The music is okay, but in certain areas the repetitive and endless loop will drive gamers insane.  Unlike SP games, MMORPG's find players in the same "zone" for hours/days/weeks/etc. on end.  If there is game music for an area, I promise most gamers have turned it off after a very short while (or they are so far gone from listening to 300+ hours of the same 1 min. of looped music that you won't want to talk to them anyway).

2) No music at all, or what music there is makes you wonder if the game's composer purposely set out to create a score that stood in total opposition to the game's setting and storyline.  Period-influenced music by composers who are well aware of the many types of sounds and music from that kind of a time and place is SO MUCH BETTER than the ridiculous crap some companies pass off as music.

I know it is a minor issue for many, and I frequently play with the music off listening to my own soundtrack of sorts...  But, still, I am tired of "fantasy" games with techno soundtracks, or rock-lite action video sequences of sort.  I don't expect perfect immersion, but I want to feel like the elements of the game are different parts of a coherent whole.  I expect the experience to make me feel like you feel when you go into a great cathedral.... small, insignificant, and a mere cog in the great wheel of everything.  That was a big part of the medieval culture/mind-set...  I don't think the game has to be uber-authentic in this respect, but just allow the art and music to follow what the setting was about (minus all the elements of magic, which I find tiresome at times)...

So, there's another.  I don't really like a lot of the magic in fantasy games.  I think it is way overdone and normally plays more like an "arcade" feature than feeling like your avatar is summoning some great elemental power from the great beyond...

Originally posted by MustaphaMond

I think *a lot* of MMORPG's, especially fantasy MMORPG's, totally miss the mark when it comes to one of the least discussed, though still important aspect of a game: the music.

It seems MMO's suffer two fates when it comes to the tunes.

1) The music is okay, but in certain areas the repetitive and endless loop will drive gamers insane.  Unlike SP games, MMORPG's find players in the same "zone" for hours/days/weeks/etc. on end.  If there is game music for an area, I promise most gamers have turned it off after a very short while (or they are so far gone from listening to 300+ hours of the same 1 min. of looped music that you won't want to talk to them anyway).

2) No music at all, or what music there is makes you wonder if the game's composer purposely set out to create a score that stood in total opposition to the game's setting and storyline.  Period-influenced music by composers who are well aware of the many types of sounds and music from that kind of a time and place is SO MUCH BETTER than the ridiculous crap some companies pass off as music.

I know it is a minor issue for many, and I frequently play with the music off listening to my own soundtrack of sorts...  But, still, I am tired of "fantasy" games with techno soundtracks, or rock-lite action video sequences of sort.  I don't expect perfect immersion, but I want to feel like the elements of the game are different parts of a coherent whole.  I expect the experience to make me feel like you feel when you go into a great cathedral.... small, insignificant, and a mere cog in the great wheel of everything.  That was a big part of the medieval culture/mind-set...  I don't think the game has to be uber-authentic in this respect, but just allow the art and music to follow what the setting was about (minus all the elements of magic, which I find tiresome at times)...

So, there's another.  I don't really like a lot of the magic in fantasy games.  I think it is way overdone and normally plays more like an "arcade" feature than feeling like your avatar is summoning some great elemental power from the great beyond...

I would love it if a game would make a caster class that was almost solid aoe damage but with spells that had minute and a half cast times.  I would have to flesh out the idea more because it wouldn't work well outside of bosses as this caster would be useles on trash mobs but I always think of Wizards needing long incantatins and mass concentration to harness their destructive powers.

I think the forgotten realms would be a good setting for a fantasy mmorpg. Really cool place with lots you can incorporate. Unique locations like meznobarranzan and what ever else is in the underdark. Lots of dietys, but don't see much of a point in that. Well i guess it would be different and yeah drizzt is awesome too.

And how can you hates elves

yeah how can you hate elves?!?
 

Things I dont want to see in a Fantasy MMO-

1. Aliens

2. God Killing(not really a God if you can kill it)

3. Naggas  I hate those things!

4. Killer deer,squirels, bunnies

5. pirates or ninjas

Originally posted by pencilrick

With WOW aging and a lot of lesser MMO's not (or no longer) hitting the mark, now is a great time for something new to come out. 

Things I would hope not to see in a new fantasy MMO:

1)  Steampunk or sci-fi.  I guess I am a purist, but to me medieval fantasy ought to keep true to "medieval" + "fantasy".  Steam-powered motorcycles and airplanes do not go with plate armor and swords, even in a fantasy world.

Im with you there. Shadowrun is still the setting that tops my list however.

2)  Overly-involved tutorials.  Too much hand-holding can come across as forced gameplay and is a hit on immersion.

I dont agree, the tutorial is what pulls in new players. This was AoCs best point and something like that is perfect, however it should be possible to skip it if you dont want to do it.

3)  Linear themepark design.  I want to play in a "world", not in a themepark.  

I think there should be a balnce right in between. I still want dungeons filled with NPCs but most of the items can as well be crafted and the players could fill up a lot more important roles than they do in Wow and EQ. I dont want a themepark but not a sandbox either, themeparks are too strict while sandboxes easily can get boring.

4)  Hundreds of quests.  I think quests should be few in number, and designed around results rather than acting out some linear scene.  (WOLTK is a great example of exactly what I do NOT want to see ever, ever, ever again.)

Yeah, quests should be something epic, not collecting dung for a farmer. Long and intresting plotlines are a lot more fun than menial tasks, everything that's not feel like an adventure should not be a quests.

5)  Crappy cartoonish overdone weapon graphics. 

Yeah, weapons should look like weapons and the same things go for armours.

6)  Giant dinosaurs that are low level and go down with two swipes of a sword while a deer is level 70.  This does NOT make sense.

True. I rather have some system that are closer to Runequest, where you can see how dangerous something is (at least usually).

7)  Joking references to the modern world.  Good for a wry grin or laugh, but a hit on immersion.

In some cases they are amusing but anything that does not fit the world should be out. A few ones that fits in the game is ok for me.

Originally posted by keligorm

I think the forgotten realms would be a good setting for a fantasy mmorpg. Really cool place with lots you can incorporate. Unique locations like meznobarranzan and what ever else is in the underdark. Lots of dietys, but don't see much of a point in that. Well i guess it would be different and yeah drizzt is awesome too.

 

And how can you hates elves

Possibly but we do already have copies of it, like Norrath (EQ 1 & 2). If Bioware makes it ill play, otherwise I might skip.

As for elves they are way to stereotype (and its all Drizzt fault for that matter). Elves are something Tolkien borrowed from Norse mythology and not bad in itself but the standard D&D elf (or worse the manga one with taller ears) are not that interesting. Id love to see a game that used the original mythology instead of the D&D ones, LOTRO is doing it too some degree but they dont really feel as they are in the books there.

The race to hate is Gnomes however, Dragonlance made them like building stupid things and most games have ripped that off making a very irritating bunch of creatures.

The problem as I see it anyways is that almost all fantasy MMOs stole stuff from the same sources, the worlds are just cheap copys of better gameworlds for pen and paper RPGs. In that way a Forgotten realms or Dragonlance MMO would work. Ravenloft would be interesting too. The creators of new worlds should at least go back and look on the original sources like Mythology (Irish, Norse, Welch, greece and so on) instead of continue to make bleaker and worse copies.

I like how everyone is taking this thinly veiled anti-WoW rant seriously.

Comes down to personal taste of course (and sometimes crossover genre settings can be fun, but...)

Things I don't want to see in a fantasy MMO

• Industrial technology/engineering beyond horse drawn vehicles and forged tools
  • No Tanks
  • No Planes
  • No amusing "dwarfish/Gnomish" whatevers
  • No Robots wrapped up as clockwork automatons and whatnot
• No Gun powder (even wrapped up as "alchemy" or some such)
• No space ships! If a race has the ability to go to the stars they have no business killing forest creatures with sharpened sticks for the first 10 levels.

Things I don't want to see in a SciFi MMO

• Elves, dwarves etc be they futuristic or otherwise
  • Replace with alien races, highly evolved humans. Anything but high fantasy races with lasers
• Magic
  • Technology should be king in SciFi, not magic explained away by mystic forces or pseudo-religious nonsense

Having said all that I'll put up with almost anything if the game is fun, so all this is a bit arbitary really.

Originally posted by lornphoenix

 @Ilvaldyr
Why the hate for Elves?

They come from France.

I wouldn't mind seeing something completely out of the blue, like the start low level monster is a bugger monster or something.

And i wouldn't mind a change in gamplay, like instances that turn into RTS.

But i don't want most of the things you have said.

Originally posted by Bodeus

yeah how can you hate elves?!?
 

 

 

Things I dont want to see in a Fantasy MMO-

1. Aliens

2. God Killing(not really a God if you can kill it)

3. Naggas  I hate those things!

4. Killer deer,squirels, bunnies

5. pirates or ninjas

Oh, that picture is just horrible.

As far as god killing, remember that it is more than likely the players are killing the incarnation of the god and not the god itself.

Mythology has all sorts of gods with all sorts of powers and abilities. Heck, the greek gods are supposed to be flawed as they are supposed to exhibit the flaws of humanity.

Being a God doesn't have to mean "all powerful all knowing entity".

I agree with you on the steampunk thing... steampunk is good when the whole setting is steampunk but it just seems incredibly anachronistic to combine it with swords and sorcery.

I make it easy, since I hate  fantasy with a passion, the one thing I don't want to see at all is another fantasy MMO, but I do agree with people who complain about all the cookie-cutter MMOs out there that are all essentially the same with the same awful races and the same crappy concepts.  Personally, if you're going to have a fantasy MMO, make it FANTASY.  Not fantasy mixed with something else.  Not a modern-day setting masquerading as fantasy.  Just fantasy.  The same goes for most MMOs, a lot of them use magic, even if they call it something else, because it's easier to program and implement than coming up with a real non-fantasy system.

Then again, most designers are lazy, coming up with something that's not a cheap clone of WoW is beyond most of them.