Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.
2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.
3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.
4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.
5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.
7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.
8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?
9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.
10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."
11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.
12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

Hmmm, interesting.

But most all of these concerns are explained thoroughly in either the game manual, or the support forums.

Apparently, the reviewer didn't even bother to check those two resources out.

Originally posted by Respit

Hmmm, interesting.

But most all of these concerns are explained thoroughly in either the game manual, or the support forums.

 

Apparently, the reviewer didn't even bother to check those two resources out.

Well his job is to play the game and review it. Part of that is how easily can a play install and play the game.

I have never read a single manual for any game I have played simply because all critical features are explained to you in some form of tutorial or in the process of key mapping to fit my preferences. I do not think it is his job to go read support forums or read through any manual.

Originally posted by Respit

Hmmm, interesting.

But most all of these concerns are explained thoroughly in either the game manual, or the support forums.

 

Apparently, the reviewer didn't even bother to check those two resources out.

If referring to the game manual or support forums is that important in learning how to play the game, given Darkfall's heavy digital distribution, perhaps Aventurine should have considered making this a point of reference before the player logs in and enters the character creation screen, and that's useful only assuming that all gamers can read properly.

Is there a 'Tutorial' section in the game? In other words, do pop-up screens appear in the introductory stages of the game with useful hints, tips, and instructions?

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by journey01

Originally posted by Devour

Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.
2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.
3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.
4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.
5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.
7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.
8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?
9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.
10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."
11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.
12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

Did someone need to explain to you that you need to lift up the toilet seat before you piss?  Probably not, but you still know how to do it.  (I'm making a big assumption here.)

To what are you refering?
 

Sorry, for the snarky post.  I just meant that some of the basic things shouldn't need to be taught.  For example, there's a hotbar that appears on your screen.  It's got corresponding numbers 1-0.  Wouldn't you think it's self explanatory that you could put your inventory item in the hotbar and when you push the number, it would activate that number?

Because, that's the "horrible" interface that the reviewer couldn't figure out.  (BTW, there is a tutorial that comes up when you start the game, but it appears the reviewer didn't read)

Originally posted by journey01

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by journey01

Originally posted by Devour

Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.
2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.
3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.
4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.
5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.
7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.
8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?
9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.
10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."
11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.
12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

Did someone need to explain to you that you need to lift up the toilet seat before you piss?  Probably not, but you still know how to do it.  (I'm making a big assumption here.)

To what are you refering?
 

Sorry, for the snarky post.  I just meant that some of the basic things shouldn't need to be taught.  For example, there's a hotbar that appears on your screen.  It's got corresponding numbers 1-0.  Wouldn't you think it's self explanatory that you could put your inventory item in the hotbar and when you push the number, it would activate that number?

Because, that's the "horrible" interface that the reviewer couldn't figure out.  (BTW, there is a tutorial that comes up when you start the game, but it appears the reviewer didn't read)

 

Ok well out of 13 statements, not all of them are lies. There are a couple that are mis represented either due to ignorance or stupidity on the part of the reviewer.
 

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by journey01

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by journey01

Originally posted by Devour

Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.
2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.
3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.
4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.
5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.
7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.
8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?
9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.
10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."
11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.
12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

Did someone need to explain to you that you need to lift up the toilet seat before you piss?  Probably not, but you still know how to do it.  (I'm making a big assumption here.)

To what are you refering?
 

Sorry, for the snarky post.  I just meant that some of the basic things shouldn't need to be taught.  For example, there's a hotbar that appears on your screen.  It's got corresponding numbers 1-0.  Wouldn't you think it's self explanatory that you could put your inventory item in the hotbar and when you push the number, it would activate that number?

Because, that's the "horrible" interface that the reviewer couldn't figure out.  (BTW, there is a tutorial that comes up when you start the game, but it appears the reviewer didn't read)

 

Ok well out of 13 statements, not all of them are lies. There are a couple that are mis represented either due to ignorance or stupidity on the part of the reviewer.
 

I would agree, they are not all flat out lies.  There's a few points that I would chalk up to ignorance or stupidity.  I guess that's why I made my original snarky post.  If I walked into a strange bathroom, I wouldn't be so stupid that I don't know how to lift up the toilet seat before peeing...

His point is The reviewer was there to review the game from many aspects... One of wich is, Does the game explain its mechanics enough to let someone who has never played a mmo  pick it up and playt with no problems. And He said NO. Simple not a lie not stupidity.

As for the interface.. from saying it has a crappy interface meaning for 1 DF interface is ugly as fk. and clunky.. Witch it is.( and for some of you ppl who think the interface is just the hotbar your wrong)

Originally posted by journey01

Did someone need to explain to you that you need to lift up the toilet seat before you piss?  Probably not, but you still know how to do it.  (I'm making a big assumption here.)

And, if you get told there's a toilet in the backroom, and there's just a cesspit in the ground, would you know what to do? Probably not exactly, you'd have to guess your way about.

Originally posted by Devour

5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
 

Actually...

What he didn't say was, "your CHARACTERS combat skills."
What he says is, "YOUR combat skills."

YOUR combat skills.

In case no one got it.  He doesn't particullarly favor FPS style games.
Since YOU have to aim and hits are based on YOUR skill, and the controls being so floaty....

See were I'm going?

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Edie boy was to drunk to notice the crosshair or is  shabby human waste wgho hates the game and want to burry the developers.

 

Honestly Darth, the two people most responsible for killing DF publically are Tasos and you.

I can't wait to see which one of you gets the final credit, though.

He missed to notice the crosshair ? What has lead to his "mistake" ?  he saw more servers then one ? what leads to such mistakes ?

tell  me..

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by Devour

5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
 

 

Actually...

What he didn't say was, "your CHARACTERS combat skills."
What he says is, "YOUR combat skills."

YOUR combat skills.

In case no one got it.  He doesn't particullarly favor FPS style games.
Since YOU have to aim and hits are based on YOUR skill, and the controls being so floaty....

See were I'm going?

Nice catch. That does indeed make much more sense.

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by Devour

5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
 

 

Actually...

What he didn't say was, "your CHARACTERS combat skills."
What he says is, "YOUR combat skills."

YOUR combat skills.

In case no one got it.  He doesn't particullarly favor FPS style games.
Since YOU have to aim and hits are based on YOUR skill, and the controls being so floaty....

See were I'm going?

 

Nice catch. That does indeed make much more sense.

The guy was exagerating the review, but he never once lied.  Some stuff he just wasn't aware of, like the UI, and the mouse smoothing.

The thing with the mouse being floaty was because of the mouse smoothing option that is enabled by default. 
Have you seen a single person blasting this guy point that out?  Nope, cause they know it's true.  Most people will even tell you to turn it off in game, when you can get someone to give you an actually helpful responce of course.  Had he know about the option he would have def. turned it off like the magority of the people playing that are aware of it. 

Adding further insult to injury is combat - usually the only saving grace of a bad MMO. Darkfall's system is totally twitch-based, in that you click your mouse and you swing a sword, or fire a bow, or shoot some magic. You have a crosshair, and your hits are dependent on whether or not this crosses the enemy at any given time - like an FPS, except with little to no reference point. Enemies' AI boils down to running in circles, which is actually surprisingly effective, considering how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible, and thus much of your melee combat becomes a ridiculous ring-around-the-roses of chasing an enemy frantically clicking the left mouse button.

The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork, and, worse still, your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. It isn't even an issue of timing your clicks based on the connection with your sword - it's nigh-on random.

He wasn't saying that it's a part of character progression.  He was complaining that due to poor controls, the inability to judge distance (a complaint I've been posting on thier forums repeatedly due to the fact that they stick the crosshair in the middle of your characters head; obstructing the view of your opponent), crappy AI, and your own skill, makes combat come down to being nearly a random ordeal.

He made it very clear that he understood it was "totally twitch based".  He even made a direct comparison to quake 2.

Something else i've been saying for a while now is that there is NO TIMING in melee.  It's imossible and I don't care how many fans try to tell you that it is.  There is a very good reason melee fights degenerate into circle jousting. 

Edit:  BTW, the tutorial in the beginning doesn't tell you that you can equip a weapon through the hotbar.  In fact the tutorial tells you that you have to do it from your inventory.

Originally posted by Devour

Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.
2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.
3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.
4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.
5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.
7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.
8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?
9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.
10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."
11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.
12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

Bro, this^^ is not needed. There are things that Aventurine did not have the competency to understand or envision happening in their myopic world. Any competent lead Developer would have know that a USER INTERFACE if thee most imposrtant aspect of a game, because it is the ONLY way the end-user can interact within the game.  So the ease and polish of the UI is very important.

What was Aventurines responses in early beta (december), when some 90% of the testers said the interface was a complete joke and needed to be 100% redone...?

...Nothing!

(Other than a small comment on that the beta user interface wasn't finished.) That was 6 months ago...

So, no need to justify your arguments of why Darkfall is so terrible, it's a FACT!   You'll never find an honest review of Darkfall that rates this game anything other than a total flop !! Why?, because you cannot even sit down with one click of the mouse or keystroke...   that is very illustrative of how incredibly ignorant and inept Tasos is. Let alone the more complex things such as using simultaneous attacks or spell casting.

Darkfall doesn't matter, never has... it only got popular when Tasos Fagbouras started telling white lies to the general MMORPG community about features His game had.  Which sounded pretty kewl and stirred a lot of comotion, but in the end, we all know what happened. We were bamboozeled by another asshole from another independant game company.

Originally posted by Fariic

 

Something else i've been saying for a while now is that there is NO TIMING in melee.  It's imossible and I don't care how many fans try to tell you that it is.  There is a very good reason melee fights degenerate into circle jousting. 

Which also makes sense considering i've seen alot of DF players compare melee combat to Oblivion, which was also basically "swing frantically and hope for the best".

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by Fariic

 

Something else i've been saying for a while now is that there is NO TIMING in melee.  It's imossible and I don't care how many fans try to tell you that it is.  There is a very good reason melee fights degenerate into circle jousting. 

 

Which also makes sense considering i've seen alot of DF players compare melee combat to Oblivion, which was also basically "swing frantically and hope for the best".

Anyone that compares it to oblivion never played oblivion.

Melee combat in DFO is NOTHING like oblivion.

You could time things in oblivion, but since the AI was so stupid in that game it wasn't necesary.  Otherwise I found the combat to be done very well in oblivion.  It's one of the things about Mortal Online that looks good to me, it looks like oblivion's combat.

Edit:  It's also one of the things that really disapointed me about DFO.  Combat wasn't like oblivion wich is what I was expecting.

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by Fariic

 

Something else i've been saying for a while now is that there is NO TIMING in melee.  It's imossible and I don't care how many fans try to tell you that it is.  There is a very good reason melee fights degenerate into circle jousting. 

 

Which also makes sense considering i've seen alot of DF players compare melee combat to Oblivion, which was also basically "swing frantically and hope for the best".

 

Anyone that compares it to oblivion never played oblivion.

Melee combat in DFO is NOTHING like oblivion.

You could time things in oblivion, but since the AI was so stupid in that game it wasn't necesary.  Otherwise I found the combat to be done very well in oblivion.  It's one of the things about Mortal Online that looks good to me, it looks like oblivion's combat.

Edit:  It's also one of the things that really disapointed me about DFO.  Combat wasn't like oblivion wich is what I was expecting.

Did you play oblivion in its highest difficulty setting? damn ai is evil.

Originally posted by Devour

Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.
2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.
3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.
4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.
5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.
7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.
8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?
9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.
10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."
11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.
12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

Have you played darkfall?  These opinions are comming from a newb that doesnt know how to change weapons, gets rolled all the time, and doesnt understand what a ffa pvp game is all about.

Originally posted by Xemous

Have you played darkfall?  These opinions are comming from a newb that doesnt know how to change weapons, gets rolled all the time, and doesnt understand what a ffa pvp game is all about.

If people in the game actually helped out, instead of being utter bitches, then he might've learnt about it, and the awful game wouldn't've got such a deserved review. Then again, people were throwing up warnings about it time and time again.

Also, your signature is annoying.

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by Respit

Hmmm, interesting.

But most all of these concerns are explained thoroughly in either the game manual, or the support forums.

 

Apparently, the reviewer didn't even bother to check those two resources out.

Well his job is to play the game and review it. Part of that is how easily can a play install and play the game.

I have never read a single manual for any game I have played simply because all critical features are explained to you in some form of tutorial or in the process of key mapping to fit my preferences. I do not think it is his job to go read support forums or read through any manual.

Before I decided to play EVE, I read no less than 3 reviews, 6 new user guides on almost every topic then played the tutorial 2 times in the trial.  I mastered the game's learning curve and still play.  Other's don't take the time and hate it.

Same with DF, although I'll grant its not so much due to the games complexity but the fact a lot of user friendly tips and help isn't really in the game.  However with a bit of work, it is possible to do some research on the internet and figure stuff out, I do it all the time for every game I play.

The real problem with the review is it appears he based it on things he read on the internet and not from his actual playtime in game.

If so, he committed a cardinal error in honest reporting and that's why he deserves to be discredited.

Originally posted by Devour

Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.

I suspect the documentation is mostly poor. It was probably done very quickly before release and during a time changes were being made. 

2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.

Often a killer for games. Especially FPS ones.

3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.

I have to agree with this. The feeback in every video I have seen is lacking. Sound of comabt are a horrible joke. This is were DF fails to be like mount and Blade at all.

4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.

This was said by an early beta leaker and apeprs very true. Its most likely because DF hit detection is prone to lag spikes. Again if they had some amazing new system for concurrent users then they would have sold the technology on by now. AV need the money. The lack of uptake on this  technology suggests it  is not amazing at all. 

5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.

So still got conenction problems in Df then ? Oh the fanboys doth lie as well!

6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.

Bad interface pure and simple. It might take time to draw a weapon but it should not be fiddly.

7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.

IF DF had been done well then gaining stats would not be the issue. Maybe more gaining resources/money like Eve would have been better. But the game has global baking so even this would not make the game world more alive. No logistics. No trade routes. Not even in a world with large boats.

This is DF biggest fail IMHO! 

8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?

This is definatly DF main fall back. Its is very poor in light of the website not updated. FIx the website or the game AV.. whateevr comes first. Nothing against DFs main theme but why all the pretence ? 

9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.

I suspect the quests were all added post christmas. At least so enar to release that typo's were not spotted. 

10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."

Isn't wioldlife and dynamic environmen claims still on the website ?! It needs toning down a bit methinks

11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.

I think this shows DF childish singular nature most of all. Scary for a sandbox game too. 

12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!

 

Makes you wonder what during the X amount of years was going on. Was Df rewritten? Was staff leaving lots ?

 
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

Just another example of why AV have so little though given to DF in general on its core aspects.

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

Hmmm... this is why I think for the most part the scathing review was totally deserved. Tasos QQ'ing is just suspicous

Originally posted by Devour

Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.
2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.
3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.
4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.
5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.
7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.
8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?
9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.
10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."
11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.
12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

so much true but u know what

U CANT KNOW ALL ABOUT THE GAME IN JUST 9 HOURS OUT OF WHICH MOST OF THE TIME IF U SPEND IT IN CHARACTER CREATION SCREEN

Originally posted by sassoonss

Originally posted by Devour

Let's read it over, and point out the bits that you thought were lies were really not, they were just a trouble with the game itself, and it's inability to teach a player the basics.

1) You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it. - Does it tell you how to do this IN GAME? No? I thought not, so you can't blame him for saying so, especially since the community would just say "L2P ROFLSHITHOUSE" if he asked.
2) ...how slow and floaty the controls tend to be. - True.
3) The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible... - True.
4) The lack of hit detection saps the combat of any weight or skill, and makes it incredibly frustrating to fight enemies during PVE or PVP combat. - True, the hit detection is poor at best.
5) ...your combat skills affect how often you actually connect. - Admittedly not true, but I can imagine this is something he could mistake in game, as it's never ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.
6) Using spells or arrows is somewhat less exhausting, but usually ends messily when an enemy decides to run at you, leaving you with the choice of changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble) or running backwards in the vain hope of not dying. - It's pretty bloody hard to change weapons without knowing what you're doing beforehand, and I can imagine most new players will have a bit of trouble with it. So, since the game doesn't try and help you understand what the eff is going on, true.
7) While playing for a few hours of reasonably solid combat only netted me a few increases in sword handling, a kindly fellow informed me that it would only take me "about six or eight hours to get good". On further questioning, this was revealed to mean "keep banging your head against the same goblins until you can reliably hit something bigger". ... You see, everything in Darkfall is based on attrition. - True.
8) Sadly, this is only the tip of the iceberg of Darkfall's problems. The developers have taken the classic stance when faced with the echoing cries of "you barely have any content", and claim that the "core" of Darkfall is clan warfare. Players can build "camps" and "towns", and fight each other in "epic" wars. This is, as you can probably imagine from the screenshots, rather more underwhelming and frustrating than the hyperbole would have you believe. - Has anyone actually tried to deny this?
9) The quests are repetitive kill-X-of-Y monstrosities written with a six-year-old's understanding of English. - True, poor English is rampant.
10) The world is bland in the extreme, with no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie - and even they echo with a distinct lack of life. - "Wow, look at that bird in the sky! Oh, wait, it's gone."
11) There hasn't even been an attempt to construct a faux-story - you pick a character, and you're dropped in a drab town with a leaf-blade and 20 fewer Euros in your pocket. - Entirely true, the background story on the site is absolutely awful.
12) Underneath the lack of originality, there's a hole where the game should be: a loose, incongruous mess of bad controls, horrible user interface, and broken combat system. - Yep!
13) At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute. - It does not ONCE in game tell you to press the space bar. This is a major flaw, especially since the majority of players don't SMASH THEIR KEYBOARD UP when they get killed. ( Although, it seems from the amount of people that worked this out, that Darkfall players do. )

And, yes, the last two paragraphs aptly sum it up.

 

so much true but u know what

 

U CANT KNOW ALL ABOUT THE GAME IN JUST 9 HOURS OUT OF WHICH MOST OF THE TIME IF U SPEND IT IN CHARACTER CREATION SCREEN

Nobody spends most of 9 hours in a character creation screen jackass, and ed didnt either. It is absurd to belive this based on the word of Tasos the liar.

Also It is not the job of a review to know all about a game.

    The sad thing about Darkfall is they could have made this game in a single room and just let everyone kill each other all day and they would have said it was the greatest game ever........The game has so many flaws its unreal.....I guess if the only game you had ever played before was UO then Darkfall might not seem too bad but to those of us that have played alot of MMOs this game is garbage.

Why does it matter? Sometimes coming the right conclusion for the wrong reason is an important distinction and matters. This is not one of those times.