Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Fariic

If you're going to write an article that makes the accusation that there's a lot of misinformation floating around, you may want to make sure you got all your facts straight.

"The basic premise is that all characters start with +10 alignment on a scale of -50 to +100."

The maximum possitive aliengment a player can gain is 10.
From the patch notes: • Alignment has been tweaked. The maximum positive alignment you can have has been reduced to 10.

"However, with the massive demand for this game, the daily sales quotas were being consumed in under 5 minutes."

No.  It never sold out in less then 5 minutes.  Some days it took 45 some days it took 15, but it never took 5.  One day in fact it took almost an hour and a half.

"The game is purchased via digital download exclusively"

No.  If you read thier EULA you would also understand why they aren't allowed to sell you a copy of the game, and what you actually purchase is an account.  From the EULA: 1. Limited License to the World. Your participation in the Game and the World are subject to your ongoing agreement to and compliance with these TOS. Aventurine grants you a non exclusive, non transferable, revocable license to the Game and the World, subject to these TOS and the EULA.

The game client itself is free to download, and not dependant upon the purchase of your limitted lisence.

"I can confirm that cheating does in fact exist in this game"

Cheating in any form is never a "non-issue"; the fact that you can confirm it and say "You may see this from time to time," is not a good thing in any game.  In the 3 years of Lineage 2, and 4 years of WoW the worst cheating I encountered were bots.  I never encounterd speed hacks, teleport hacks, flying hacks, or aim hacks in those games.  You're attempting to downplay a serious issue with the game.  It blows my mind that anyone can in one sentence state that it's a non-issue, and in another say that you'll see it from time to time. 

AFK macroing is cheating.  It can get you banned.  Tasos himself has had to make mulitple posts covering this topic; that in itself implies a problem.  AFK macroing accures a LOT.  No, it won't make you uber overnight, but again you took a serious issue and attempt to downplay it.  The guy that will afk macro his lesser magic, will also afk macro is greater magic; they don't do this just one night, they do this for days on end.  This sort of cheating is gives people a considerable advantage and allows them to advance at a rate that a normal player has no chance of competing with.  It's hardly a non-issue.

The alignment change was in the April 10th patch.
Harvesting was changed in the May 1st patch notes.

Either the author isn't actually playing the game anymore, or this article was written over a month ago, and contanes "misinformation".

 

 

Read post #16, this explains the discrepency in the alignment info. Artciles are submitted up to 2 weeks prior to posting. I noted the changes as soon as the article was posted.

For anyone that tried to buy the game the first few weeks, it was gone in 5 minutes. I am not sure what to tell you. From what I am told recently the store has been open for as long as 45 minutes, as you claim.

I am not sure why you are nitpicking about the digital download. You give them 50 bucks, you get the game to download, you pay your 15 bucks a month after your free month like every other mmorpg. You cant buy it in a store. Not sure why that was confusing.

I never said cheating was a non issue, thats why it was mentioned in the article relating to "the downside of Darkfall".

AFL macroing does "occur" (hrm) a lot. I mention this as well. The reasons its a non issue were explained clearly. If you want to macro something that will make a difference, every arrow shot, or spell cast will cost you the same as someone using the same attacks on legit targets. On one hand you lose the cost, the other you supplement it. If you want to take your hard earned arrows and reagents and shoot them in the air go ahead. I prefer to use my gold to make more of it. Or at least break even.

Post 16 has nothing to do with why you have informatin in the article that became irrelivent over a month ago. 
This article could have been written in under 2 hours.
If it was submitted 2 weeks ago the information you provided in it is still outdated as the change to the alignement system was at the beginning of april

I purchased the game the start of the second week.
I purchased it more then 20 minutes after the shop opened.
The shop also had periods of being open for up to 45 min, and this was within the first month.  Believe me, I have nothing better to do, and if I have to sift there the filth on thier website to find the threads, I will.
It sold out the second day in in just under 15 min. 
The day after that it took 9-11 min.

Nitpicking?  You wrote an article making the acusation of misinformation floating around and your atricle has information that is wrong!

In the first 2 weeks of the shop opening one of the biggest contributers outside of the demand that prevented people from purchasing the game was.
1. shop server crashing.
2. no one being aware at the time that if you refreshed the page before it timed out you would get banned for 10 min.
These two things had a drastic impact on the ability of people to purchase the game; regardless of the demand.

No.  People playing the game legitimatly do not gain the same advantage of people that afk macro. 
If AFK macroing wasn't providing people with an unfair advantage then Av wouldn't ban you for doing it.
They will even ban you for afk swimming! 
You're attempting to downplay one of the biggest issues that people have with the game.  This isn't a haters perspective, this is a fan perspective.  Read thier forums.  There are post after post after post of people complaining about it.  For you to say it's a non-issue is ludicris.  The FANS are very clear, and extremely vocal that it's an issue they take seriously.

"To be honest, the rest of the "problems" you will see discussed on the message forums are non issues. The most talked about topic is obviously regarding rampant cheating."

Either you wrote the article or you didn't.  You can't say that you didn't call it a non issue when it's clearly written in the article.  Did you write it?  If yes then you yourself used the words non issue.  You were trying to down play the problem as not being that big a deal.  I do know how to read between the lines.

Edit:
So there aren't clan vendors in game that sell crafting recipies that utilize the clan resource nodes?

We will simply have to agree to disagree on the times. Accounts sold in 5 minutes or less, I dont know what else to say.

Can you please explain how AFK macroing grants anyone some kind of massive advantage? They do not ban you for AFK macroing, they never have and they never will. They have made one giant banning of 200+ players, and in the news section Tasos specifically mentioned that macroing was not a factor. In fact, in my article where I talk about macroing, I took a picture of a guy afk macroing swimming in town :). If you go to Heimdal in Dwarf land, you will see at least half a dozen people macroing in the water there at any given time of the day. I am sure the same goes for all newb towns all over the world.

I personally am not a fan of macroing, never have and never will be. Others are the min / maxers that feel every hour not in the game is some kind of gain that is lost. To each his own. If I felt someone else's AFK macro someone hurt me in any way, I would be up in arms as well. But the truth is I have profited heavily off of AFK macroers by snaeaking into clan towns, killing them, looting their arrows and reagents, banking them and repeating. Macroing AFK is a huge risk for skills that matter... all of this was fairly well laid out in the article. I am sorry you feel someone macroing up skills like swimming and resting someone have this tremendous advantage over you in PvP, PvE, or any other aspect of the game.

Macros have exited in every skill based game going back to UO. I would be "shocked" if anyone who had ever played UO didnt know what 8x8 meant. Or anyone who ever played Asherons Call didnt know what UCM meant. Or anyone who played Eve Online had never heard the term "macro miner". Macroing is a biproduct of skill based systems, always has been and always will be.

For one, you like to use Ultima Online as the example of what they did right, and what in your opinion Darkfall does wrong.

Stop putting words in my mouth and go reread my post if you have to. At no point did I state or even hint that UO is the example of an MMORPG done right. What I said was that if Aventurine decided to copy some of the systems employed in UO (and that is exactly what they were going for), they should've made sure that they were making exact replicas of those systems, and not some poor-man's xerox copies, each of them missing some of the most important parts.

Yes, UO was full of holes and exploits, but what kind of argument is that? That was 12 years ago. Different era for MMORPG-s and games in general. Besides, like I wrote in my previous post, it doesn't matter how many exploits there are in the game as long as the company developing it can deal with them all in an efficient manner. It's been proven time after time that Aventurine is not capable of doing that, and if they do "fix" something, they usually make things worse than they were in the first place for the legit players. They took their sweet time developing the game, the beta test was a joke and a waste of time for everyone involved, as they basically took a huge, steaming pile of crap on all our feedback and suggestions, ignorning everything and going their own way of fixing the game 0.000001 bug at a time. Which is why I believe there's no fixing this game, not by Aventurine. It takes them weeks to fix minor client issues, they have not implemented any improvements/new content other than some world changes and the scale armor parts for months now. I'm not one of those people who believe in miracles or miracle patches, and so I don't think that Aventurine's going to change their ways all of a sudden and actually start fixing the game instead of only applying small balancing tweaks which they never even test beforehand. The core of the game might be solid, but unfortunately, the people operating on it are just a bunch of incompetent amateurs. It actually seems as if they outsourced the development of the game client and are now trying to fix it and add new stuff, but they're holding the manual upside down.

You know what might help them keep their subs? Acting like they're a professional company. Being apologetic instead of lying their way out of each and every one of their screw ups and basically telling people to gtfo if they don't like their product. My theory is that if Tasos can pull as many lies as necessary out of his ass at any given moment, then he'd surely be able to cover up the fact that they're just a bunch of assholes, and pretend that they do care about their customers, by often posting long, informative, truthful (maybe except for the part where he'd say they care etc.) updates.

You call the game a grind because its slow gaining skills. I think thats one of the large problems in this game where people expect to play 24 / 7 and see and do all there is to the game in a month...

You really do need to get a clue. Trying to talk to you about PVP is like explaining astrophysics to a chimp. It's nice that you can write articles about DFO and stuffs, but due to the fact that you don't really know what you're talking about, it makes them largely misleading to newbies and completely worthless to anybody who knows a thing or two about the game. I call the game a grind because IT IS A GRIND. Every aspect of the game is incredibly grindy and there is no looking at it from a different perspective. You don't play competitive games to watch the sunset and enjoy long walks on the beach with your fellow griefers; you play them to compete, and the only way to do that is to max your stats as quickly as everyone else. A new/casual player cannot go pk people who hit twice as hard, he cannot siege towns populated by people who hit twice as hard, he cannot PvE because he is going to get pked by people who hit twice as hard. Get the picture? And yes, that's always been the case with MMO games, through years of rigoruous training the developers have taught us that the character development process has to be the most consuming part of any MMORPG, since it's much easier to put heavy emphasis on gaining experience/skillpoints than to develop some actual end-game content. It's even more of a problem in Darkfall than in any other PVP game before, since it takes so incredibly long to build a character.

9% of the cheating videos you see are recycled videos from the first 2 weeks of the game.

You really don't need to explain cheating to me. I've run into enough cheaters on my own to know how many of them are in the game, guess you could blame it on bad luck... Speedhackers, people teleporting into dungeon walls or away from me to escape, people teleporting in and jacking mounts from right in front of me and teleporting out. As for the boat video, I'm afraid you've heard wrong. There are 3rd party multihack programs that allow people to go invisible (which is probably what the cheater in the video did, so none of the people on the boat saw him coming), speedhack (incredible speed of the boat), ignore the laws of physics (flying boat), and it is obvious to anybody with at least a tiny bit of a clue that such a program was used in this case. So again, you're wrong. Darkfall isn't one of the first games to introduce ships, you could sail ships in UO, which was a 2D game released almost 12 years ago as you well know, but that's beside the point since you were just going on about how the introduction of sailable ships has to do with them being exploitable, even though that player was clearly cheating.

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Fariic

If you're going to write an article that makes the accusation that there's a lot of misinformation floating around, you may want to make sure you got all your facts straight.

"The basic premise is that all characters start with +10 alignment on a scale of -50 to +100."

The maximum possitive aliengment a player can gain is 10.
From the patch notes: • Alignment has been tweaked. The maximum positive alignment you can have has been reduced to 10.

"However, with the massive demand for this game, the daily sales quotas were being consumed in under 5 minutes."

No.  It never sold out in less then 5 minutes.  Some days it took 45 some days it took 15, but it never took 5.  One day in fact it took almost an hour and a half.

"The game is purchased via digital download exclusively"

No.  If you read thier EULA you would also understand why they aren't allowed to sell you a copy of the game, and what you actually purchase is an account.  From the EULA: 1. Limited License to the World. Your participation in the Game and the World are subject to your ongoing agreement to and compliance with these TOS. Aventurine grants you a non exclusive, non transferable, revocable license to the Game and the World, subject to these TOS and the EULA.

The game client itself is free to download, and not dependant upon the purchase of your limitted lisence.

"I can confirm that cheating does in fact exist in this game"

Cheating in any form is never a "non-issue"; the fact that you can confirm it and say "You may see this from time to time," is not a good thing in any game.  In the 3 years of Lineage 2, and 4 years of WoW the worst cheating I encountered were bots.  I never encounterd speed hacks, teleport hacks, flying hacks, or aim hacks in those games.  You're attempting to downplay a serious issue with the game.  It blows my mind that anyone can in one sentence state that it's a non-issue, and in another say that you'll see it from time to time. 

AFK macroing is cheating.  It can get you banned.  Tasos himself has had to make mulitple posts covering this topic; that in itself implies a problem.  AFK macroing accures a LOT.  No, it won't make you uber overnight, but again you took a serious issue and attempt to downplay it.  The guy that will afk macro his lesser magic, will also afk macro is greater magic; they don't do this just one night, they do this for days on end.  This sort of cheating is gives people a considerable advantage and allows them to advance at a rate that a normal player has no chance of competing with.  It's hardly a non-issue.

The alignment change was in the April 10th patch.
Harvesting was changed in the May 1st patch notes.

Either the author isn't actually playing the game anymore, or this article was written over a month ago, and contanes "misinformation".

 

 

Read post #16, this explains the discrepency in the alignment info. Artciles are submitted up to 2 weeks prior to posting. I noted the changes as soon as the article was posted.

For anyone that tried to buy the game the first few weeks, it was gone in 5 minutes. I am not sure what to tell you. From what I am told recently the store has been open for as long as 45 minutes, as you claim.

I am not sure why you are nitpicking about the digital download. You give them 50 bucks, you get the game to download, you pay your 15 bucks a month after your free month like every other mmorpg. You cant buy it in a store. Not sure why that was confusing.

I never said cheating was a non issue, thats why it was mentioned in the article relating to "the downside of Darkfall".

AFL macroing does "occur" (hrm) a lot. I mention this as well. The reasons its a non issue were explained clearly. If you want to macro something that will make a difference, every arrow shot, or spell cast will cost you the same as someone using the same attacks on legit targets. On one hand you lose the cost, the other you supplement it. If you want to take your hard earned arrows and reagents and shoot them in the air go ahead. I prefer to use my gold to make more of it. Or at least break even.

Post 16 has nothing to do with why you have informatin in the article that became irrelivent over a month ago. 
This article could have been written in under 2 hours.
If it was submitted 2 weeks ago the information you provided in it is still outdated as the change to the alignement system was at the beginning of april

I purchased the game the start of the second week.
I purchased it more then 20 minutes after the shop opened.
The shop also had periods of being open for up to 45 min, and this was within the first month.  Believe me, I have nothing better to do, and if I have to sift there the filth on thier website to find the threads, I will.
It sold out the second day in in just under 15 min. 
The day after that it took 9-11 min.

Nitpicking?  You wrote an article making the acusation of misinformation floating around and your atricle has information that is wrong!

In the first 2 weeks of the shop opening one of the biggest contributers outside of the demand that prevented people from purchasing the game was.
1. shop server crashing.
2. no one being aware at the time that if you refreshed the page before it timed out you would get banned for 10 min.
These two things had a drastic impact on the ability of people to purchase the game; regardless of the demand.

No.  People playing the game legitimatly do not gain the same advantage of people that afk macro. 
If AFK macroing wasn't providing people with an unfair advantage then Av wouldn't ban you for doing it.
They will even ban you for afk swimming! 
You're attempting to downplay one of the biggest issues that people have with the game.  This isn't a haters perspective, this is a fan perspective.  Read thier forums.  There are post after post after post of people complaining about it.  For you to say it's a non-issue is ludicris.  The FANS are very clear, and extremely vocal that it's an issue they take seriously.

"To be honest, the rest of the "problems" you will see discussed on the message forums are non issues. The most talked about topic is obviously regarding rampant cheating."

Either you wrote the article or you didn't.  You can't say that you didn't call it a non issue when it's clearly written in the article.  Did you write it?  If yes then you yourself used the words non issue.  You were trying to down play the problem as not being that big a deal.  I do know how to read between the lines.

Edit:
So there aren't clan vendors in game that sell crafting recipies that utilize the clan resource nodes?

We will simply have to agree to disagree on the times. Accounts sold in 5 minutes or less, I dont know what else to say.

Can you please explain how AFK macroing grants anyone some kind of massive advantage? They do not ban you for AFK macroing, they never have and they never will. They have made one giant banning of 200+ players, and in the news section Tasos specifically mentioned that macroing was not a factor. In fact, in my article where I talk about macroing, I took a picture of a guy afk macroing swimming in town :). If you go to Heimdal in Dwarf land, you will see at least half a dozen people macroing in the water there at any given time of the day. I am sure the same goes for all newb towns all over the world.

I personally am not a fan of macroing, never have and never will be. Others are the min / maxers that feel every hour not in the game is some kind of gain that is lost. To each his own. If I felt someone else's AFK macro someone hurt me in any way, I would be up in arms as well. But the truth is I have profited heavily off of AFK macroers by snaeaking into clan towns, killing them, looting their arrows and reagents, banking them and repeating. Macroing AFK is a huge risk for skills that matter... all of this was fairly well laid out in the article. I am sorry you feel someone macroing up skills like swimming and resting someone have this tremendous advantage over you in PvP, PvE, or any other aspect of the game.

Macros have exited in every skill based game going back to UO. I would be "shocked" if anyone who had ever played UO didnt know what 8x8 meant. Or anyone who ever played Asherons Call didnt know what UCM meant. Or anyone who played Eve Online had never heard the term "macro miner". Macroing is a biproduct of skill based systems, always has been and always will be.

Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned.
www.http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=150640

Afk macroing gives you an advantage because I can set up a macro to cast magic or shot a bow and then go to sleep or work while my character continues to progress.  The normal player actually has to log out at some point.

I shouldn't have to explain how afk macroing gives an advantage over legitimate players or why it's considered cheating in pretty much every MMO out.

Av has made it very clear, see the link and quote above, that if you get caught afk macroing you can get banned. 

8x8 was an exploit.  It wasn't just a macro and EA banned people for it; my brother included.

Edit:  You can stop telling people that the accounts were selling out in 5 min or less because it's a lie.
I already told you, I purchased my account the start of the second week, 20 minutes after the shop opened.
The fastest is sold out was something like 9 min.

Edit again:  I'm really irritated with this article.

I LOVE the correspondents program and appreciate it.  However, this article and a lot of what you've posted in this thread is misinformation; the very thing you attempted to adress in your piece.  You were wrong on numerous accounts in the article, you were wrong about a few things in this thread as well.  If you're going to be a correspondent you should at least be knowledgable in what you're writing about.

you better be careful Fariic dont make RBlackheart break out the LOGS

Originally posted by Bodeus

you better be careful Fariic dont make RBlackheart break out the LOGS

No kidding.

I'm not kidding.  This article bothers me.
I've got WELL over 100 hours played in DFO.  I was a member of one of the larger clans on the server and had the opportunity to experience pretty much everything the game has to offer today.

I've very clear about my dislike of the game and the company behind it.
I'm also well aware that there are plenty of people that frequent this these forums and use misinformation to both paint this game in a negative and positive light.

With over 100 hours of play time I have NOTHING BUT FACTS to support anything I have to say about the game.
This article IS NOT FACTUALLY CORRECT.

We have here a correspondent who stated that Av never has, and never will, ban anyone for AFK macroing!  This is a lie, and anyone that's been playing for the last 2 months knows full well that Av does not allow you to AFK macro!

Correspondents should be knowledgable about what they are writting about, and shouldn't have to resort to spreading misinformation to discredit other peoples misinformation.

Get Paragusis (sp?) as a corespondent.  The guy knows what he's talking about and is actually a GOOD writter.

Originally posted by RBlackheart
...

They do not ban you for AFK macroing, they never have and they never will. They have made one giant banning of 200+ players, and in the news section Tasos specifically mentioned that macroing was not a factor. In fact, in my article where I talk about macroing, I took a picture of a guy afk macroing swimming in town :). If you go to Heimdal in Dwarf land, you will see at least half a dozen people macroing in the water there at any given time of the day. I am sure the same goes for all newb towns all over the world.

...

Umm... you do realize that is absolutely false and incorrect... right?

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Any macroing or disruptive skilling up within the protective radius of the towers is strictly forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

"Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

You do realize that AFK and unattended mean the same thing...right? 
 

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Fariic

If you're going to write an article that makes the accusation that there's a lot of misinformation floating around, you may want to make sure you got all your facts straight.

"The basic premise is that all characters start with +10 alignment on a scale of -50 to +100."

The maximum possitive aliengment a player can gain is 10.
From the patch notes: • Alignment has been tweaked. The maximum positive alignment you can have has been reduced to 10.

"However, with the massive demand for this game, the daily sales quotas were being consumed in under 5 minutes."

No.  It never sold out in less then 5 minutes.  Some days it took 45 some days it took 15, but it never took 5.  One day in fact it took almost an hour and a half.

"The game is purchased via digital download exclusively"

No.  If you read thier EULA you would also understand why they aren't allowed to sell you a copy of the game, and what you actually purchase is an account.  From the EULA: 1. Limited License to the World. Your participation in the Game and the World are subject to your ongoing agreement to and compliance with these TOS. Aventurine grants you a non exclusive, non transferable, revocable license to the Game and the World, subject to these TOS and the EULA.

The game client itself is free to download, and not dependant upon the purchase of your limitted lisence.

"I can confirm that cheating does in fact exist in this game"

Cheating in any form is never a "non-issue"; the fact that you can confirm it and say "You may see this from time to time," is not a good thing in any game.  In the 3 years of Lineage 2, and 4 years of WoW the worst cheating I encountered were bots.  I never encounterd speed hacks, teleport hacks, flying hacks, or aim hacks in those games.  You're attempting to downplay a serious issue with the game.  It blows my mind that anyone can in one sentence state that it's a non-issue, and in another say that you'll see it from time to time. 

AFK macroing is cheating.  It can get you banned.  Tasos himself has had to make mulitple posts covering this topic; that in itself implies a problem.  AFK macroing accures a LOT.  No, it won't make you uber overnight, but again you took a serious issue and attempt to downplay it.  The guy that will afk macro his lesser magic, will also afk macro is greater magic; they don't do this just one night, they do this for days on end.  This sort of cheating is gives people a considerable advantage and allows them to advance at a rate that a normal player has no chance of competing with.  It's hardly a non-issue.

The alignment change was in the April 10th patch.
Harvesting was changed in the May 1st patch notes.

Either the author isn't actually playing the game anymore, or this article was written over a month ago, and contanes "misinformation".

 

 

Read post #16, this explains the discrepency in the alignment info. Artciles are submitted up to 2 weeks prior to posting. I noted the changes as soon as the article was posted.

For anyone that tried to buy the game the first few weeks, it was gone in 5 minutes. I am not sure what to tell you. From what I am told recently the store has been open for as long as 45 minutes, as you claim.

I am not sure why you are nitpicking about the digital download. You give them 50 bucks, you get the game to download, you pay your 15 bucks a month after your free month like every other mmorpg. You cant buy it in a store. Not sure why that was confusing.

I never said cheating was a non issue, thats why it was mentioned in the article relating to "the downside of Darkfall".

AFL macroing does "occur" (hrm) a lot. I mention this as well. The reasons its a non issue were explained clearly. If you want to macro something that will make a difference, every arrow shot, or spell cast will cost you the same as someone using the same attacks on legit targets. On one hand you lose the cost, the other you supplement it. If you want to take your hard earned arrows and reagents and shoot them in the air go ahead. I prefer to use my gold to make more of it. Or at least break even.

Post 16 has nothing to do with why you have informatin in the article that became irrelivent over a month ago. 
This article could have been written in under 2 hours.
If it was submitted 2 weeks ago the information you provided in it is still outdated as the change to the alignement system was at the beginning of april

I purchased the game the start of the second week.
I purchased it more then 20 minutes after the shop opened.
The shop also had periods of being open for up to 45 min, and this was within the first month.  Believe me, I have nothing better to do, and if I have to sift there the filth on thier website to find the threads, I will.
It sold out the second day in in just under 15 min. 
The day after that it took 9-11 min.

Nitpicking?  You wrote an article making the acusation of misinformation floating around and your atricle has information that is wrong!

In the first 2 weeks of the shop opening one of the biggest contributers outside of the demand that prevented people from purchasing the game was.
1. shop server crashing.
2. no one being aware at the time that if you refreshed the page before it timed out you would get banned for 10 min.
These two things had a drastic impact on the ability of people to purchase the game; regardless of the demand.

No.  People playing the game legitimatly do not gain the same advantage of people that afk macro. 
If AFK macroing wasn't providing people with an unfair advantage then Av wouldn't ban you for doing it.
They will even ban you for afk swimming! 
You're attempting to downplay one of the biggest issues that people have with the game.  This isn't a haters perspective, this is a fan perspective.  Read thier forums.  There are post after post after post of people complaining about it.  For you to say it's a non-issue is ludicris.  The FANS are very clear, and extremely vocal that it's an issue they take seriously.

"To be honest, the rest of the "problems" you will see discussed on the message forums are non issues. The most talked about topic is obviously regarding rampant cheating."

Either you wrote the article or you didn't.  You can't say that you didn't call it a non issue when it's clearly written in the article.  Did you write it?  If yes then you yourself used the words non issue.  You were trying to down play the problem as not being that big a deal.  I do know how to read between the lines.

Edit:
So there aren't clan vendors in game that sell crafting recipies that utilize the clan resource nodes?

We will simply have to agree to disagree on the times. Accounts sold in 5 minutes or less, I dont know what else to say.

Can you please explain how AFK macroing grants anyone some kind of massive advantage? They do not ban you for AFK macroing, they never have and they never will. They have made one giant banning of 200+ players, and in the news section Tasos specifically mentioned that macroing was not a factor. In fact, in my article where I talk about macroing, I took a picture of a guy afk macroing swimming in town :). If you go to Heimdal in Dwarf land, you will see at least half a dozen people macroing in the water there at any given time of the day. I am sure the same goes for all newb towns all over the world.

I personally am not a fan of macroing, never have and never will be. Others are the min / maxers that feel every hour not in the game is some kind of gain that is lost. To each his own. If I felt someone else's AFK macro someone hurt me in any way, I would be up in arms as well. But the truth is I have profited heavily off of AFK macroers by snaeaking into clan towns, killing them, looting their arrows and reagents, banking them and repeating. Macroing AFK is a huge risk for skills that matter... all of this was fairly well laid out in the article. I am sorry you feel someone macroing up skills like swimming and resting someone have this tremendous advantage over you in PvP, PvE, or any other aspect of the game.

Macros have exited in every skill based game going back to UO. I would be "shocked" if anyone who had ever played UO didnt know what 8x8 meant. Or anyone who ever played Asherons Call didnt know what UCM meant. Or anyone who played Eve Online had never heard the term "macro miner". Macroing is a biproduct of skill based systems, always has been and always will be.

 

Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned.
www.http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=150640

Afk macroing gives you an advantage because I can set up a macro to cast magic or shot a bow and then go to sleep or work while my character continues to progress.  The normal player actually has to log out at some point.

I shouldn't have to explain how afk macroing gives an advantage over legitimate players or why it's considered cheating in pretty much every MMO out.

Av has made it very clear, see the link and quote above, that if you get caught afk macroing you can get banned. 

8x8 was an exploit.  It wasn't just a macro and EA banned people for it; my brother included.

Edit:  You can stop telling people that the accounts were selling out in 5 min or less because it's a lie.
I already told you, I purchased my account the start of the second week, 20 minutes after the shop opened.
The fastest is sold out was something like 9 min.

Edit again:  I'm really irritated with this article.

I LOVE the correspondents program and appreciate it.  However, this article and a lot of what you've posted in this thread is misinformation; the very thing you attempted to adress in your piece.  You were wrong on numerous accounts in the article, you were wrong about a few things in this thread as well.  If you're going to be a correspondent you should at least be knowledgable in what you're writing about.

If you read the TOS of any game, you will see all sorts of strange things. As much as I hate macroing, I will again make this statement. No one has been banned to date for macroing, afk or otherwise.

As I have explained several times, you make it sound as though anyone has the ability to launch spells and arrows all night long without penalty. This is extremely innaccrutate. Arrows and spell reagents are not free. They are damned expensive! So if you choose to shoot gold into the air all night long then so be it. If we all had bottomless pockets that regrew gold while we slept, then I would agree with your point on unfair advantages. Since this is clearly not the case, I again, have to respectfully disagree.

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by RBlackheart
...

They do not ban you for AFK macroing, they never have and they never will. They have made one giant banning of 200+ players, and in the news section Tasos specifically mentioned that macroing was not a factor. In fact, in my article where I talk about macroing, I took a picture of a guy afk macroing swimming in town :). If you go to Heimdal in Dwarf land, you will see at least half a dozen people macroing in the water there at any given time of the day. I am sure the same goes for all newb towns all over the world.

...

 

Umm... you do realize that is absolutely false and incorrect... right?

 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Any macroing or disruptive skilling up within the protective radius of the towers is strictly forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

 

"Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

 

You do realize that AFK and unattended mean the same thing...right? 
 

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=182316

"We banned 213 cheaters today. These are the people using 3rd party programs to cheat with. They were not banned for macroing, they were banned for cheating. They were automatically detected and also verified manually in a variety of ways. This number represents 90% of the cheaters in Darkfall right now. The rest have also been detected, and we’re waiting for them to be verified before we ban them as well.

These people were warned repeatedly. They chose to believe that we cannot detect what’s going on in our game. They took the word of the makers of these hacks over the word of the creators and administrators of the game. There are no exceptions. We don’t care if journalists, clan leaders, or our friends are among them. They were cheating in order to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of us. They deserve to be banned.

What comes into play here is something called “selfish punishment” in social science. Cheaters are likely to be some of the most outspoken people against cheating, and more likely to report cheaters. This is as so to maximize the benefit for themselves - taking it away from others. This is also the case here; we recognize some of the people from the boards habitually accusing the company for not doing anything and complaining that cheating is rampant in Darkfall, when in reality it’s not.

If you cheat in the game, you will lie about it too. Whenever we ban a cheater he or she will appeal to the community, denying it on the forums. Then come the excuses to Darkfall support about their little brother, their roommate, or about their account being hacked. So now we expect a couple of hundred people to take to the boards. Threads along these lines will be removed and posters will be banned. Darkfall Support has been instructed to not provide more than the automated ban message. Do not side with these people just because you may have played with them and didn’t happen to observe them cheating. They were cheating beyond a shadow of a doubt, detected and verified in more than one ways. There is no appeals process, our decision is final, and we will not reveal our methods.

We will keep aggressively detecting and banning players that cheat in the game. If you’re not running 3rd party cheats, you have nothing to worry about. Those that don’t take our word for it, will be banned like those banned today.

Thank you,
The Darkfall Team"

I made the key elements bold. I say again, they have never banned people for AFK macroing. Please walk into any racial newb town and you will see this to be the case.

Just to prove a point:

In Texas, it's against the law for anyone to have a pair of pliers in his or her possession.

In Philadelphia, you can't put pretzels in bags based on an Act of 1760.

Alaska law says that you can't look at a moose from an airplane.

In Corpus Christie, Texas, it is illegal to raise alligators in your home.

In Miami, it is forbidden to imitate an animal.

It is against the law to mispronounce the name of the State of Arkansas in that State.

But again, if someone shooting gold into the air all night long somehow strips the fun out of the game world for you, then thats that with that.

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by RBlackheart
...

They do not ban you for AFK macroing, they never have and they never will. They have made one giant banning of 200+ players, and in the news section Tasos specifically mentioned that macroing was not a factor. In fact, in my article where I talk about macroing, I took a picture of a guy afk macroing swimming in town :). If you go to Heimdal in Dwarf land, you will see at least half a dozen people macroing in the water there at any given time of the day. I am sure the same goes for all newb towns all over the world.

...

 

Umm... you do realize that is absolutely false and incorrect... right?

 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Any macroing or disruptive skilling up within the protective radius of the towers is strictly forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

 

"Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

 

You do realize that AFK and unattended mean the same thing...right? 
 

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=182316

"We banned 213 cheaters today. These are the people using 3rd party programs to cheat with. They were not banned for macroing, they were banned for cheating. They were automatically detected and also verified manually in a variety of ways. This number represents 90% of the cheaters in Darkfall right now. The rest have also been detected, and we’re waiting for them to be verified before we ban them as well.

These people were warned repeatedly. They chose to believe that we cannot detect what’s going on in our game. They took the word of the makers of these hacks over the word of the creators and administrators of the game. There are no exceptions. We don’t care if journalists, clan leaders, or our friends are among them. They were cheating in order to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of us. They deserve to be banned.

What comes into play here is something called “selfish punishment” in social science. Cheaters are likely to be some of the most outspoken people against cheating, and more likely to report cheaters. This is as so to maximize the benefit for themselves - taking it away from others. This is also the case here; we recognize some of the people from the boards habitually accusing the company for not doing anything and complaining that cheating is rampant in Darkfall, when in reality it’s not.

If you cheat in the game, you will lie about it too. Whenever we ban a cheater he or she will appeal to the community, denying it on the forums. Then come the excuses to Darkfall support about their little brother, their roommate, or about their account being hacked. So now we expect a couple of hundred people to take to the boards. Threads along these lines will be removed and posters will be banned. Darkfall Support has been instructed to not provide more than the automated ban message. Do not side with these people just because you may have played with them and didn’t happen to observe them cheating. They were cheating beyond a shadow of a doubt, detected and verified in more than one ways. There is no appeals process, our decision is final, and we will not reveal our methods.

We will keep aggressively detecting and banning players that cheat in the game. If you’re not running 3rd party cheats, you have nothing to worry about. Those that don’t take our word for it, will be banned like those banned today.

Thank you,
The Darkfall Team"

I made the key elements bold. I say again, they have never banned people for AFK macroing. Please walk into any racial newb town and you will see this to be the case.

Just to prove a point:

 

In Texas, it's against the law for anyone to have a pair of pliers in his or her possession.

In Philadelphia, you can't put pretzels in bags based on an Act of 1760.

Alaska law says that you can't look at a moose from an airplane.

In Corpus Christie, Texas, it is illegal to raise alligators in your home.

In Miami, it is forbidden to imitate an animal.

It is against the law to mispronounce the name of the State of Arkansas in that State.

 

But again, if someone shooting gold into the air all night long somehow strips the fun out of the game world for you, then thats that with that.

Umm... did you not even look at the link I put out there for you?

Did Tasos post this link or not?

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

Have they posted a new policy on AFK macroing since that one?

You are saying that the 213 banned is the TOTAL players banned?

I'm sorry, you are wrong on this one. 

Tell you what.  Post your stance on AFK macroing on the official DarkFall boards and see how many players, mods, and Devs agree with your stance... and I'll do the same.  Heck, just make a poll on the official boards asking how many agree with your stance. 

You are wrong on this one... not looking good for a Coorespondant of a game advocating that players can cheat at will and not get banned.  Especially when there is a post on the News section of the official site that says just the opposite. 

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by RBlackheart
...

They do not ban you for AFK macroing, they never have and they never will. They have made one giant banning of 200+ players, and in the news section Tasos specifically mentioned that macroing was not a factor. In fact, in my article where I talk about macroing, I took a picture of a guy afk macroing swimming in town :). If you go to Heimdal in Dwarf land, you will see at least half a dozen people macroing in the water there at any given time of the day. I am sure the same goes for all newb towns all over the world.

...

 

Umm... you do realize that is absolutely false and incorrect... right?

 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Any macroing or disruptive skilling up within the protective radius of the towers is strictly forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

 

"Unattended macroing anywhere is forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

 

You do realize that AFK and unattended mean the same thing...right? 
 

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=182316

"We banned 213 cheaters today. These are the people using 3rd party programs to cheat with. They were not banned for macroing, they were banned for cheating. They were automatically detected and also verified manually in a variety of ways. This number represents 90% of the cheaters in Darkfall right now. The rest have also been detected, and we’re waiting for them to be verified before we ban them as well.

These people were warned repeatedly. They chose to believe that we cannot detect what’s going on in our game. They took the word of the makers of these hacks over the word of the creators and administrators of the game. There are no exceptions. We don’t care if journalists, clan leaders, or our friends are among them. They were cheating in order to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of us. They deserve to be banned.

What comes into play here is something called “selfish punishment” in social science. Cheaters are likely to be some of the most outspoken people against cheating, and more likely to report cheaters. This is as so to maximize the benefit for themselves - taking it away from others. This is also the case here; we recognize some of the people from the boards habitually accusing the company for not doing anything and complaining that cheating is rampant in Darkfall, when in reality it’s not.

If you cheat in the game, you will lie about it too. Whenever we ban a cheater he or she will appeal to the community, denying it on the forums. Then come the excuses to Darkfall support about their little brother, their roommate, or about their account being hacked. So now we expect a couple of hundred people to take to the boards. Threads along these lines will be removed and posters will be banned. Darkfall Support has been instructed to not provide more than the automated ban message. Do not side with these people just because you may have played with them and didn’t happen to observe them cheating. They were cheating beyond a shadow of a doubt, detected and verified in more than one ways. There is no appeals process, our decision is final, and we will not reveal our methods.

We will keep aggressively detecting and banning players that cheat in the game. If you’re not running 3rd party cheats, you have nothing to worry about. Those that don’t take our word for it, will be banned like those banned today.

Thank you,
The Darkfall Team"

I made the key elements bold. I say again, they have never banned people for AFK macroing. Please walk into any racial newb town and you will see this to be the case.

Just to prove a point:

 

In Texas, it's against the law for anyone to have a pair of pliers in his or her possession.

In Philadelphia, you can't put pretzels in bags based on an Act of 1760.

Alaska law says that you can't look at a moose from an airplane.

In Corpus Christie, Texas, it is illegal to raise alligators in your home.

In Miami, it is forbidden to imitate an animal.

It is against the law to mispronounce the name of the State of Arkansas in that State.

 

But again, if someone shooting gold into the air all night long somehow strips the fun out of the game world for you, then thats that with that.

Umm... did you not even look at the link I put out there for you?

 

Did Tasos post this link or not?

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

 

Have they posted a new policy on AFK macroing since that one?

You are saying that the 213 banned is the TOTAL players banned?

 

I'm sorry, you are wrong on this one. 

Tell you what.  Post your stance on AFK macroing on the official DarkFall boards and see how many players, mods, and Devs agree with your stance... and I'll do the same.  Heck, just make a poll on the official boards asking how many agree with your stance. 

You are wrong on this one... not looking good for a Coorespondant of a game advocating that players can cheat at will and not get banned.  Especially when there is a post on the News section of the official site that says just the opposite. 

I didn't advocate anything, in fact I deeply oppose macroing. I but also take note to anyone who says macroing (in the case of Darkfall) gives some kind of deep game breaking advantage because it doesn't. And yes, I stand by my statement that a single player has never been banned from Darkfall for AFK macroing to date. Will this change in the future? Maybe. But please dont make statements that I advocate and promote cheating because neither statement is true.

Originally posted by RBlackheart

If you read the TOS of any game, you will see all sorts of strange things. As much as I hate macroing, I will again make this statement. No one has been banned to date for macroing, afk or otherwise.

As I have explained several times, you make it sound as though anyone has the ability to launch spells and arrows all night long without penalty. This is extremely innaccrutate. Arrows and spell reagents are not free. They are damned expensive! So if you choose to shoot gold into the air all night long then so be it. If we all had bottomless pockets that regrew gold while we slept, then I would agree with your point on unfair advantages. Since this is clearly not the case, I again, have to respectfully disagree.

Stop it!

You're lying.
There have been multiple posts on the official DFO forums from people that HAVE been banned for macroing.  One guy was even banned for AFK swimming.

I have watched fist hand people AFK macroing archery. 
It takes one ingot and one timber to make 20 arrows.
I personally made near 10k one evening after spending a single night harvesting. 

Someone AFK macroing lesser magic to 100 hundred in a night or two is gaining a massive advantage over someone who's playing legit.  There is a world of dif. between 99 mana missile and 20.  The macroed person also gains access to other spells at  a much higher rate then someone playing legit. 

Av just removed the cooldown for ES.
People are macroing thier greater magic at a much faster rate giving them a much larger advantage of people who play legit. 
Cheaters don't care about the consiquences, are you really trying to say that they won't care about reagents?  Spells with a cooldown become even more appealing to macro since they can raise those skills at a rate INCREDIBLY faster then someone that is playing legit. 

There is a world of dif. between AFK macroing and legal macroing.  I have no problem with being at your computer and doing it, and do it myself.  It's not being there that is a problem.  AFK macroing is the same thing as botting; even if it's considerably less advanced.  Players are actually using the same software to macro that is used in other games to bot.  I know this for a FACT and have been incredibly vocal on the official forums that people running autoit at the same time as DFO should be banned.  It's software that FPS games will ban you fork, Blizzard will ban you for running it at the same time as WoW.

Ask me why I quit my guild?
Cheating!  I sat in vent and listened to them exploit mobs.  I got sick of seeing the guys sitting in the city afk macroing spells.
The cheating was a big issue for me, and for you to downplay it as a "non issue" is spreading misinformation.  The official forums for the game are filled with threads of people unhappy with the cheating in game.

One of the rampant cheats people are using in game is the loot macro; something you didn't even mention even though it's probably the MOST discussed cheat on the official forums.

Tasos NEVER said that they didn't ban anyone for afk macroing; thier official stance is very clear, it's been posted in the news forums on more then one occasion.  

Cheating, no matter how rare or rampant is NEVER a non issue in a game.  You're implication that it is, even though you admit that you'll see people doing it, is just disturbing and wrong.  The fact that a correspondent would actually be willing to write a piece in wich he admits that you'll see people cheating is just beyond me!  That's not a good thing!

Originally posted by shukes33

 Grind is not one of the downfalls of DF is just a feature.

One of my favourite comments ever. In fact I liked it so much it has become my sig :)

Originally posted by RBlackheart

I didn't advocate anything, in fact I deeply oppose macroing. I but also take note to anyone who says macroing (in the case of Darkfall) gives some kind of deep game breaking advantage because it doesn't. And yes, I stand by my statement that a single player has never been banned from Darkfall for AFK macroing to date. Will this change in the future? Maybe. But please dont make statements that I advocate and promote cheating because neither statement is true.

Heh... backpedaling a bit now I see. 

According to the Devs. own statements AFK macroing IS cheating, and they will be banned for doing so.

You told players they would NOT be banned for AFK macroing, and never would be.

You also told players that they were free to AFK macro if they wanted to.

So... I am in the wrong for telling players to abide by the rules that the Devs of the game YOU are a Coorespondant for have set forth?   Hmm... I see. 

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by RBlackheart

If you read the TOS of any game, you will see all sorts of strange things. As much as I hate macroing, I will again make this statement. No one has been banned to date for macroing, afk or otherwise.

As I have explained several times, you make it sound as though anyone has the ability to launch spells and arrows all night long without penalty. This is extremely innaccrutate. Arrows and spell reagents are not free. They are damned expensive! So if you choose to shoot gold into the air all night long then so be it. If we all had bottomless pockets that regrew gold while we slept, then I would agree with your point on unfair advantages. Since this is clearly not the case, I again, have to respectfully disagree.

 

Stop it!

You're lying.
There have been multiple posts on the official DFO forums from people that HAVE been banned for macroing.  One guy was even banned for AFK swimming.

I have watched fist hand people AFK macroing archery. 
It takes one ingot and one timber to make 20 arrows.
I personally made near 10k one evening after spending a single night harvesting. 

Someone AFK macroing lesser magic to 100 hundred in a night or two is gaining a massive advantage over someone who's playing legit.  There is a world of dif. between 99 mana missile and 20.  The macroed person also gains access to other spells at  a much higher rate then someone playing legit. 

Av just removed the cooldown for ES.
People are macroing thier greater magic at a much faster rate giving them a much larger advantage of people who play legit. 
Cheaters don't care about the consiquences, are you really trying to say that they won't care about reagents?  Spells with a cooldown become even more appealing to macro since they can raise those skills at a rate INCREDIBLY faster then someone that is playing legit. 

There is a world of dif. between AFK macroing and legal macroing.  I have no problem with being at your computer and doing it, and do it myself.  It's not being there that is a problem.  AFK macroing is the same thing as botting; even if it's considerably less advanced.  Players are actually using the same software to macro that is used in other games to bot.  I know this for a FACT and have been incredibly vocal on the official forums that people running autoit at the same time as DFO should be banned.  It's software that FPS games will ban you fork, Blizzard will ban you for running it at the same time as WoW.

Ask me why I quit my guild?
Cheating!  I sat in vent and listened to them exploit mobs.  I got sick of seeing the guys sitting in the city afk macroing spells.
The cheating was a big issue for me, and for you to downplay it as a "non issue" is spreading misinformation.  The official forums for the game are filled with threads of people unhappy with the cheating in game.

One of the rampant cheats people are using in game is the loot macro; something you didn't even mention even though it's probably the MOST discussed cheat on the official forums.

Tasos NEVER said that they didn't ban anyone for afk macroing; thier official stance is very clear, it's been posted in the news forums on more then one occasion.  

Cheating, no matter how rare or rampant is NEVER a non issue in a game.  You're implication that it is, even though you admit that you'll see people doing it, is just disturbing and wrong.  The fact that a correspondent would actually be willing to write a piece in wich he admits that you'll see people cheating is just beyond me!  That's not a good thing!

If you can walk into any racial town and see people openly macroing at the bank at any time in the day, and say there are bans for macroing... I am sorry to say thats simply not the case. If you can show me one newb town on the map where you won't hear the sounds of mana missiles flying and arrows being shot, I will be utterly shocked and amazed. I'm done discussing the validity of macroing, its like debating religion. Everyone believes what they believe. This article simply discusses the negatives of the game, nothing more nothing less. Agree, disagree, you are free to do either.

In part 3 we will take a deeper look into the skill system, and part 4 will be all about combat. Until then...

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by RBlackheart

If you read the TOS of any game, you will see all sorts of strange things. As much as I hate macroing, I will again make this statement. No one has been banned to date for macroing, afk or otherwise.

As I have explained several times, you make it sound as though anyone has the ability to launch spells and arrows all night long without penalty. This is extremely innaccrutate. Arrows and spell reagents are not free. They are damned expensive! So if you choose to shoot gold into the air all night long then so be it. If we all had bottomless pockets that regrew gold while we slept, then I would agree with your point on unfair advantages. Since this is clearly not the case, I again, have to respectfully disagree.

 

Stop it!

You're lying.
There have been multiple posts on the official DFO forums from people that HAVE been banned for macroing.  One guy was even banned for AFK swimming.

I have watched fist hand people AFK macroing archery. 
It takes one ingot and one timber to make 20 arrows.
I personally made near 10k one evening after spending a single night harvesting. 

Someone AFK macroing lesser magic to 100 hundred in a night or two is gaining a massive advantage over someone who's playing legit.  There is a world of dif. between 99 mana missile and 20.  The macroed person also gains access to other spells at  a much higher rate then someone playing legit. 

Av just removed the cooldown for ES.
People are macroing thier greater magic at a much faster rate giving them a much larger advantage of people who play legit. 
Cheaters don't care about the consiquences, are you really trying to say that they won't care about reagents?  Spells with a cooldown become even more appealing to macro since they can raise those skills at a rate INCREDIBLY faster then someone that is playing legit. 

There is a world of dif. between AFK macroing and legal macroing.  I have no problem with being at your computer and doing it, and do it myself.  It's not being there that is a problem.  AFK macroing is the same thing as botting; even if it's considerably less advanced.  Players are actually using the same software to macro that is used in other games to bot.  I know this for a FACT and have been incredibly vocal on the official forums that people running autoit at the same time as DFO should be banned.  It's software that FPS games will ban you fork, Blizzard will ban you for running it at the same time as WoW.

Ask me why I quit my guild?
Cheating!  I sat in vent and listened to them exploit mobs.  I got sick of seeing the guys sitting in the city afk macroing spells.
The cheating was a big issue for me, and for you to downplay it as a "non issue" is spreading misinformation.  The official forums for the game are filled with threads of people unhappy with the cheating in game.

One of the rampant cheats people are using in game is the loot macro; something you didn't even mention even though it's probably the MOST discussed cheat on the official forums.

Tasos NEVER said that they didn't ban anyone for afk macroing; thier official stance is very clear, it's been posted in the news forums on more then one occasion.  

Cheating, no matter how rare or rampant is NEVER a non issue in a game.  You're implication that it is, even though you admit that you'll see people doing it, is just disturbing and wrong.  The fact that a correspondent would actually be willing to write a piece in wich he admits that you'll see people cheating is just beyond me!  That's not a good thing!

If you can walk into any racial town and see people openly macroing at the bank at any time in the day, and say there are bans for macroing... I am sorry to say thats simply not the case. If you can show me one newb town on the map where you won't hear the sounds of mana missiles flying and arrows being shot, I will be utterly shocked and amazed. I'm done discussing the validity of macroing, its like debating religion. Everyone believes what they believe. This article simply discusses the negatives of the game, nothing more nothing less. Agree, disagree, you are free to do either.

In part 3 we will take a deeper look into the skill system, and part 4 will be all about combat. Until then...

AFK macroing!!
That's unattended.

That's not the same thing as being at your PC and doing.

People,
If you AFK macro in this game you can get banned.
You're correspondent is giving you misinformation. 

Edit:  Make sure part 3 and 4 have more factual informatin in it!

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Overfiend138

[quote]

You bring up 2 good points. The first 3 days the game was released there were issues with mobs becoming out of synch with the world. This made it so that many camps did not actually attack back. The players in beta apparently knew where the higher end mob camps were and when they realized the sync issues they began to exploit. This is both a true and legit statement. They then garnered the 10k gold necessary to purchase a clanstone and grabbed a city. Keep in mind 10k is actually not that much. Consider your clan has 100 players, and each players donates 100g. This is the equivalent of killing 25 - 30 goblins. At any rate this caused people to gain cities faster than normal. However this is brought up time and time again as some sort of game breaking issue where in reality it is not. Games like Ultima online used to cost a shitload to build a castle or a large structure. But its not like these were popping up on day 1 :). In Darkfall there are set plots of land laid out for hamlets (small cities) all the way up to the full cities. I believe there are 97 total spread out all over the place. It doesnt matter if players grabbed all 97 sites on day 1, day 11, day 111, day 1111 or whatever. At some point all cities are going to be owned. FYI any and all cities can be stolen, and this includes any and all resources spent on building the city up. Once you take it over its yours. Its called sieging. Cities change hands on a daily basis, and I have been called on more than one occasion as a solo mercenary who does good work in city defense. I have been paid quite hansomly on several occasions.

The second comment you make is also valid, about the stress testing. However, at some point they have to release like any mmorpg. 30 days from now the game will be be better than it was 30 days ago. In fact, every mmorpg works that way. Lord of the Rings Online, one of the most stable mmorpgs ever released, contantly adds content. Would they hold many more subs if they waited years (until now) to release with the included content that has been developed over the past several years? Probably. But at some point the developement needs to stop, the game needs to be released, and what didnt make it into release becomes future content.

Your comment about clans having some fair unbalance is not as accurate. Owning a city provides only one real benefit other than having a safe area outside of the newbie cities to hang out in. That benefit is having in town nodes for various resources. These nodes are the equivalent of 20 or so regular nodes in one, and regen very slowly. This happens to be the only way to harvest rare ore other than killing the spefic golems themselves. This is the reason cities are both sought after and warred after. The resources are typically turned into building blocks used to create more structures in the city. It actually takes massive amounts of resources to build structures in Darkfall. But say they have an unfair advantage is like complaining that the well orgranized group of 100 just slayed the dragon and is flashing all sorts of loot in your face, all the while you tried and failed to solo the dragon on your own. I am a through and through solo player and have been all the way back to UO. I like grouping with close friends but I am not a fan of clans, especially large "leet" ones. But its not fair for me as a player to expect to accomplish the same thing as a large clan for that very reason. Some clans literally have hundreds and hundreds of active players. But claiming an unbalance is a bit harsh. Its just a numbers game short and simple.

The rigor exploit was well known and was corrected within 10 days of the game's release. It was actually fixed before I even knew what rigor was. This was again used by beta testers that apparently already knew about it. And as you have already pointed out there werent enough beta testers :). And we have done quite a few tests against people with 100 rigor. Through normal play to this point your should have around 30-50 rigor which gives .3 - .4 in your applicable defenses. 100 Rigor gives you 1.0. A suit of scale (which is mid grade armor, costs 1000 gold or so for a full suit) gives you about 7.0 or so to your applicable defenses. So exploiting at this point would put you at about 8.0 vs 7.4 in the given defensive area. Thats approximately a 7.5% advantage to the beta players who decided to exploit in the first 10 or so days the game went live.

If you went to another server, played for 60 days or so, and all of the towns are swallowed up by clans, won't your same issues with the alleged imbalance exist?[/quote]

 

No, because the exploits used for resources around these towns still exist and are used daily. For the new server to succeed these will need to be looked at and patched. Hacking was the next big concern, but it seems that since they are taking action on this we can check this one off the books. Macroing still needs to be addressed in a big way.

The rigor exploit was just one example of the exploits that can be used to alter stats. There are still exploitable mobs in this game that can be used for stat increase as well as material gain, not to mention macro tactics that can also build these stats. Your comment about armor brings up another good point, these naked pk's have nopthing to lose while the honest citzen is out a set of plate. Unfair, imbalanced.

My comments on the imbalance of clan cities has nothing to do with a numbers game, it's about  providing a worry  free macro environment which others are not privy to, as well as access to the exploits in that area which are also in a worry free environment so far as getting ganked is concerned.

 

Am I mistaken in that the resource nodes outside of clan cities give the same 51 resources and regenerate at the same rate as ones found around newb cities, and ever other place in the game? I actually found an uninhabitted island where half of the nodes are ore. I have never seen another single player on the island. I go there twice a day and come back with like TONs of ore. Its actually been my bread and butter for 2 weeks now. Try exploring some and get away from the newb areas if you cant find nodes. They are literally everywhere. And they are all identical...

the macroing of resources is one of the spots where, in my opinion, macroing should be allowed. Aventurine has gone so far as to institute auto harvesting from what I have seen in their recent patch notes, so another thumbs up there. That being said, when you aquire a city, these cities will have resources such as mines and groves which produce up to 5 resources per swing and you can wack on those for a good long time, so again there is an advantage for the clans here, but not one that they wouldn't have anyways.

The macroing of combat skills is what is at the heart of the matter. greater magic, weapon skills, etc can be leveled using AFK macros and with the clan city it goes uninterupted. The mats needed for G Magic are readily available thanks to the exploitable mobs around these cities.  Even with the steps that were taken (and again, kudos for acting on these, ie making it to where you cant hit afk guild members or use non decaying newb weapons for leveling) there are still plenty of macros out there that will swap weapons for you so you can go for several hours before you need to recycle your hot bar inventory. This is what is killing the game, not the resources.

Other games have gone so far as to add in client side protection to prevent these things (NProtect), but in most of those games, macroing skills like this isn't a game breaker. Granted, NProtect is more of a nuisance to deal with as you cant do anything outside the game while you are playing because it blocks windows processes, but it does the job. In a game such as this where keeping your gear is dependant on your ability to fight, something like this should be considered. Unfortunately, with their low number of staff, it is highly unlikely this will occur either.

I looked forward to Darkfall for many years and truly wish it was the game we all hoped it would be. Unfortunately, many many factors have given us nothing but dissappointment. If you know any millionaiore philanthropists who can hire a decent staff for Aventurine, please let them know they are needed and tell them to act fast, because right now everyone has a bad taste in their mouths and word of it is spreading quickly.

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by RBlackheart

If you read the TOS of any game, you will see all sorts of strange things. As much as I hate macroing, I will again make this statement. No one has been banned to date for macroing, afk or otherwise.

As I have explained several times, you make it sound as though anyone has the ability to launch spells and arrows all night long without penalty. This is extremely innaccrutate. Arrows and spell reagents are not free. They are damned expensive! So if you choose to shoot gold into the air all night long then so be it. If we all had bottomless pockets that regrew gold while we slept, then I would agree with your point on unfair advantages. Since this is clearly not the case, I again, have to respectfully disagree.

 

Stop it!

You're lying.
There have been multiple posts on the official DFO forums from people that HAVE been banned for macroing.  One guy was even banned for AFK swimming.

I have watched fist hand people AFK macroing archery. 
It takes one ingot and one timber to make 20 arrows.
I personally made near 10k one evening after spending a single night harvesting. 

Someone AFK macroing lesser magic to 100 hundred in a night or two is gaining a massive advantage over someone who's playing legit.  There is a world of dif. between 99 mana missile and 20.  The macroed person also gains access to other spells at  a much higher rate then someone playing legit. 

Av just removed the cooldown for ES.
People are macroing thier greater magic at a much faster rate giving them a much larger advantage of people who play legit. 
Cheaters don't care about the consiquences, are you really trying to say that they won't care about reagents?  Spells with a cooldown become even more appealing to macro since they can raise those skills at a rate INCREDIBLY faster then someone that is playing legit. 

There is a world of dif. between AFK macroing and legal macroing.  I have no problem with being at your computer and doing it, and do it myself.  It's not being there that is a problem.  AFK macroing is the same thing as botting; even if it's considerably less advanced.  Players are actually using the same software to macro that is used in other games to bot.  I know this for a FACT and have been incredibly vocal on the official forums that people running autoit at the same time as DFO should be banned.  It's software that FPS games will ban you fork, Blizzard will ban you for running it at the same time as WoW.

Ask me why I quit my guild?
Cheating!  I sat in vent and listened to them exploit mobs.  I got sick of seeing the guys sitting in the city afk macroing spells.
The cheating was a big issue for me, and for you to downplay it as a "non issue" is spreading misinformation.  The official forums for the game are filled with threads of people unhappy with the cheating in game.

One of the rampant cheats people are using in game is the loot macro; something you didn't even mention even though it's probably the MOST discussed cheat on the official forums.

Tasos NEVER said that they didn't ban anyone for afk macroing; thier official stance is very clear, it's been posted in the news forums on more then one occasion.  

Cheating, no matter how rare or rampant is NEVER a non issue in a game.  You're implication that it is, even though you admit that you'll see people doing it, is just disturbing and wrong.  The fact that a correspondent would actually be willing to write a piece in wich he admits that you'll see people cheating is just beyond me!  That's not a good thing!

If you can walk into any racial town and see people openly macroing at the bank at any time in the day, and say there are bans for macroing... I am sorry to say thats simply not the case. If you can show me one newb town on the map where you won't hear the sounds of mana missiles flying and arrows being shot, I will be utterly shocked and amazed. I'm done discussing the validity of macroing, its like debating religion. Everyone believes what they believe. This article simply discusses the negatives of the game, nothing more nothing less. Agree, disagree, you are free to do either.

In part 3 we will take a deeper look into the skill system, and part 4 will be all about combat. Until then...

I am sorry then.

I must ask that mmorpg.com remove you as a Correspondent for DarkFall. 

The Devs for DarkFall have been very clear on what they consider to be a bannable offense in DarkFall. 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

AFK macroing is clearly labeled as a bannable offense.

You have told players they are free to do AFK macro and they will not be banned.

That is akin to telling players they are free to cheat.  Advocating cheating for the MMO that you are a Correspondent for is not something mmorpg.com should be associated with.

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by Fariic

Originally posted by RBlackheart

If you read the TOS of any game, you will see all sorts of strange things. As much as I hate macroing, I will again make this statement. No one has been banned to date for macroing, afk or otherwise.

As I have explained several times, you make it sound as though anyone has the ability to launch spells and arrows all night long without penalty. This is extremely innaccrutate. Arrows and spell reagents are not free. They are damned expensive! So if you choose to shoot gold into the air all night long then so be it. If we all had bottomless pockets that regrew gold while we slept, then I would agree with your point on unfair advantages. Since this is clearly not the case, I again, have to respectfully disagree.

 

Stop it!

You're lying.
There have been multiple posts on the official DFO forums from people that HAVE been banned for macroing.  One guy was even banned for AFK swimming.

I have watched fist hand people AFK macroing archery. 
It takes one ingot and one timber to make 20 arrows.
I personally made near 10k one evening after spending a single night harvesting. 

Someone AFK macroing lesser magic to 100 hundred in a night or two is gaining a massive advantage over someone who's playing legit.  There is a world of dif. between 99 mana missile and 20.  The macroed person also gains access to other spells at  a much higher rate then someone playing legit. 

Av just removed the cooldown for ES.
People are macroing thier greater magic at a much faster rate giving them a much larger advantage of people who play legit. 
Cheaters don't care about the consiquences, are you really trying to say that they won't care about reagents?  Spells with a cooldown become even more appealing to macro since they can raise those skills at a rate INCREDIBLY faster then someone that is playing legit. 

There is a world of dif. between AFK macroing and legal macroing.  I have no problem with being at your computer and doing it, and do it myself.  It's not being there that is a problem.  AFK macroing is the same thing as botting; even if it's considerably less advanced.  Players are actually using the same software to macro that is used in other games to bot.  I know this for a FACT and have been incredibly vocal on the official forums that people running autoit at the same time as DFO should be banned.  It's software that FPS games will ban you fork, Blizzard will ban you for running it at the same time as WoW.

Ask me why I quit my guild?
Cheating!  I sat in vent and listened to them exploit mobs.  I got sick of seeing the guys sitting in the city afk macroing spells.
The cheating was a big issue for me, and for you to downplay it as a "non issue" is spreading misinformation.  The official forums for the game are filled with threads of people unhappy with the cheating in game.

One of the rampant cheats people are using in game is the loot macro; something you didn't even mention even though it's probably the MOST discussed cheat on the official forums.

Tasos NEVER said that they didn't ban anyone for afk macroing; thier official stance is very clear, it's been posted in the news forums on more then one occasion.  

Cheating, no matter how rare or rampant is NEVER a non issue in a game.  You're implication that it is, even though you admit that you'll see people doing it, is just disturbing and wrong.  The fact that a correspondent would actually be willing to write a piece in wich he admits that you'll see people cheating is just beyond me!  That's not a good thing!

If you can walk into any racial town and see people openly macroing at the bank at any time in the day, and say there are bans for macroing... I am sorry to say thats simply not the case. If you can show me one newb town on the map where you won't hear the sounds of mana missiles flying and arrows being shot, I will be utterly shocked and amazed. I'm done discussing the validity of macroing, its like debating religion. Everyone believes what they believe. This article simply discusses the negatives of the game, nothing more nothing less. Agree, disagree, you are free to do either.

In part 3 we will take a deeper look into the skill system, and part 4 will be all about combat. Until then...

I am sorry then.

I must ask that mmorpg.com remove you as a Correspondent for DarkFall. 

The Devs for DarkFall have been very clear on what they consider to be a bannable offense in DarkFall. 

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

 

AFK macroing is clearly labeled as a bannable offense.

You have told players they are free to do AFK macro and they will not be banned.

That is akin to telling players they are free to cheat.  Advocating cheating for the MMO that you are a Correspondent for is not something mmorpg.com should be associated with.

Just a quck update on this...
 

According to Brannoc (DarkFall Community Manager)

"We HAVE on many occasions and will continue to do so. Don't afk macro."

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

Granted he is no DarkFall Dev., but he probably knows the rules and what is and is not bannable.

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by cosimusta

 Macroing is a non-issue except all the guilds who control the majority of the world are ones that got their before anyone else, and MACROED to get their players skilled and harvesting supplies needed.  Who controls the game world is a non-issue though.

 

You also left out the worst part of the alignment system.  The fact that a game like Ultima online and Lineage2 have targeting and DF doesn't.  Fighting mobs in camps or group PvP became a joke.  A very frustrating unfunny joke.

 

And then there is exploiting.  Exploiting in DF probably needs an article on its own.  The exploits and the alignment system combined are what killed the game for me.

 

Why are DF reviews so blatantly biased one way or the other? 

Ok I have to call bullshit on your comments :). Hmm where to start:

 

• You cannot macro for resources. You never could, and you never will be able to. What you could do is create a macro that kept clicking your mouse button repeatedly while sitting at a resource to get its 51 TOTAL resources per node. However this does nothing to protect you from getting PKed with your abundance of 51 resources in your pack. And it takes approximately 8-10 minutes to empty a node. So your macroing attempts do not net any real gain
• You cant macro to get needed equipment. And your combat skills do not effect your ability to hit, or even your damage in Darkfall. So I fail to see how macroing skills helps me in the initial weeks where clans were making their initial land claims
• I am a bit confused by the statement regarding the alignment system. The issues you speak of is in regards to combat and has nothing to do with the alignment system in any way. Targeting in this writer's opinion is hands down one of the most welcome features in an MMORPG to come, ever. It's FPS style targeting. There is none of that bull shit where I stand inches from an enemy, swing with a giant halberd and somehow miss because the mob is such a higher level from me. The same goes for magic and archery. Gravity plays a role like in real life. Firing an arrow or spell takes skill as you have to both aim and time. You don't just see a magical targeting ring and land hits based on die rolls. This is actually my favorite aspect of gameplay. This also means you have to choose your fighting tactics carefully as if you begin firing arrows into crowds of people you will undoubtedly hit friendlies, and other untintended targets.
• Define what you consider exploits. There are cheats using third party applications which is bannable, and there is using the game mechanics to someone benefit in an unattended way, which is not currently bannable. I know of one exploit which I do not want to mention (but I will admit it exists if I see it posted in this thread) which they are actively kicking people for, but not banning. But I have a feeling you are referring to cheats. Regardless, as I said in my article, the cheating has dropped off dramatically since the ban hammer was dropped.

 

If you don't like the game thats ok, many won't. Just make sure what you post is accurate and up to date.

-what i meant by macro to get resources was of course a macro to harvest it.  Not a macro that magically creates it.

-never said you could macro for equipment.  You putting words in my mouth.

-Raising your combat skills does help your dmg.  It does this by raising your skill level so that you can use better weapons without them breaking insanely quick, by raising  stats like quickness that raise your overall dps, and by granting you access to spells that do more dmg.  I might be leaving some other methods out.

-The fact that there is not targetting in DF has nothign to do with the alignment system?  How about i swing horizontally and accidentally hit 2 players in one swing and no im flagged for 2 minutes.  That's the kind of thing that is frustrating.

-here's an example of an exploit.  I go into a hobgoblin camp and stand on the roof and all the hobglobins pile together at the wall below me, and occasionally run in lil circles while i nuke em down with mana missle.  Here's another example.  I'm blue, my teammate is blue, and you're blue.  Me and him take turns hitting you and backing off every 10 seconds until you're dead.

-This is not new stuff at all man.  Same stuff from beta pretty much with a few differences.  Hope everything is clear for you now.

Originally posted by cosimusta

Originally posted by RBlackheart

Originally posted by cosimusta

 Macroing is a non-issue except all the guilds who control the majority of the world are ones that got their before anyone else, and MACROED to get their players skilled and harvesting supplies needed.  Who controls the game world is a non-issue though.

 

You also left out the worst part of the alignment system.  The fact that a game like Ultima online and Lineage2 have targeting and DF doesn't.  Fighting mobs in camps or group PvP became a joke.  A very frustrating unfunny joke.

 

And then there is exploiting.  Exploiting in DF probably needs an article on its own.  The exploits and the alignment system combined are what killed the game for me.

 

Why are DF reviews so blatantly biased one way or the other? 

Ok I have to call bullshit on your comments :). Hmm where to start:

 

• You cannot macro for resources. You never could, and you never will be able to. What you could do is create a macro that kept clicking your mouse button repeatedly while sitting at a resource to get its 51 TOTAL resources per node. However this does nothing to protect you from getting PKed with your abundance of 51 resources in your pack. And it takes approximately 8-10 minutes to empty a node. So your macroing attempts do not net any real gain
• You cant macro to get needed equipment. And your combat skills do not effect your ability to hit, or even your damage in Darkfall. So I fail to see how macroing skills helps me in the initial weeks where clans were making their initial land claims
• I am a bit confused by the statement regarding the alignment system. The issues you speak of is in regards to combat and has nothing to do with the alignment system in any way. Targeting in this writer's opinion is hands down one of the most welcome features in an MMORPG to come, ever. It's FPS style targeting. There is none of that bull shit where I stand inches from an enemy, swing with a giant halberd and somehow miss because the mob is such a higher level from me. The same goes for magic and archery. Gravity plays a role like in real life. Firing an arrow or spell takes skill as you have to both aim and time. You don't just see a magical targeting ring and land hits based on die rolls. This is actually my favorite aspect of gameplay. This also means you have to choose your fighting tactics carefully as if you begin firing arrows into crowds of people you will undoubtedly hit friendlies, and other untintended targets.
• Define what you consider exploits. There are cheats using third party applications which is bannable, and there is using the game mechanics to someone benefit in an unattended way, which is not currently bannable. I know of one exploit which I do not want to mention (but I will admit it exists if I see it posted in this thread) which they are actively kicking people for, but not banning. But I have a feeling you are referring to cheats. Regardless, as I said in my article, the cheating has dropped off dramatically since the ban hammer was dropped.

 

If you don't like the game thats ok, many won't. Just make sure what you post is accurate and up to date.

-what i meant by macro to get resources was of course a macro to harvest it.  Not a macro that magically creates it.

-never said you could macro for equipment.  You putting words in my mouth.

-Raising your combat skills does help your dmg.  It does this by raising your skill level so that you can use better weapons without them breaking insanely quick, by raising  stats like quickness that raise your overall dps, and by granting you access to spells that do more dmg.  I might be leaving some other methods out.

-The fact that there is not targetting in DF has nothign to do with the alignment system?  How about i swing horizontally and accidentally hit 2 players in one swing and no im flagged for 2 minutes.  That's the kind of thing that is frustrating.

-here's an example of an exploit.  I go into a hobgoblin camp and stand on the roof and all the hobglobins pile together at the wall below me, and occasionally run in lil circles while i nuke em down with mana missle.  Here's another example.  I'm blue, my teammate is blue, and you're blue.  Me and him take turns hitting you and backing off every 10 seconds until you're dead.

-This is not new stuff at all man.  Same stuff from beta pretty much with a few differences.  Hope everything is clear for you now.

 

You raise some good points, but they are not necessarily exploits, they are more an abuse of current game mechanics. When someone says exploit I would consider that to be duping gold or items, going invisible, teleport hacking, etc.

You are correct about the weapon and spell damage. But nearly every skill in game increases your attributes in one way or another. so really performing any action in the game has the same effect, including swimming, just sprinting around, or taking your horse for a stroll.

I am not sure if you are aware, but there are actually 2 types of standard attacks. A "left to right" swing if you will, and a "top to bottom swing". You can switch from one to the other at will, and is used for exactly this purpose. If 5 guys are whacking away on a mob with something that swings with a very wide arc (polearms being the best example) you will in fact all hit each other. You need to switch to overheard swings in close quarters and then you only hit what is directly in front of you. Taking that a step further I actually fell in love with this mechanic because it can work in your favor, and it brings a new element to mmorpgs which is the ability to hit multiple mobs with melee attacks that are not necessarily an AOE (area of effect) ability. If three mobs charge me I can actually swing my polearm from left to right and hit all three. I freakin' love that.

You make a good point about abusing the landscape to in essence become invulnerable. This definitely exists in places in this game, and many other games as well. The problem is if you are sitting on the roof and no one else is around then you have aggroed the whole camp to you. Which means when you hop off and try and loot anything you will get gang banged. Also, you do not mention that nearly all mobs, including goblins have ranged attacks either arrows or spells so you are not invulnerable completely.