Originally posted by Bodeus

its a regular greek tragedy....

LMAO!!! CLASSIC!!!

Originally posted by javac 

there is no chance Darkfall will be shutting down t this point. there's no sign of DF even slowing down or going anywhere but up

I'm not so sure.

They spent millions developing this game, yet have no physical distribution anywhere, and sales are limited to whenever they decide to open the store. It's impossible for any business to recoup their investments that way. They've got to be hemorrhaging cash right now, because there's no way that limited subs and such tightly controlled sales are making them any money, especially when you consider paychecks that have to be written, bills that have to be paid, overhead costs to keep the doors open, and investors that want their money repaid.

I don't see any rational reason for Tasos to be flying off the handle like he has been over a single review unless he's trying to kick the hornets nest and get the fans distracted. Give them a scapegoat to be pissed off at if the game folds anytime soon. It's the only thing that makes sense. A single review shouldn't provoke the kind of reaction that Tasos is having, no matter how bad and/or unfair that review might be.

Originally posted by Darkthorn

I never played beta, picked the game up a month ago and so far it's fun. For what it's worth I found the review in question was way off base, the ui is different and takes a little time to adjust to, the skill system is ok no different really then any other grind, be it lvl 80 or skill 100. Inventory management not as user friendly as WoW but not a deal killer, the graphics are fine, not going to set a new standard but not incredibly dull either. To me the combat is where it shines it's tough, you better be able to move and target or you are toast, why so many people who have not played it keep telling everyone how it is amazes me.  It's got some issues but I have played them all and I have never seen one of them come out of the gate perfect...if you read the forums of these other games you will see the same people who feel each of these games is wrong because it is not what they want.... everyone seems to think they are special enough that all games/characters should be how they think not the designers.

If you don't like it don't play it, stick to WoW, Eve, or whatever game you play. I like that it's not like WoW or the others, if I had to make one more raid for uber loot so I could raid for uber loot again  I would scream..... no risk no reward. The danger, the unknown all add to the game for me.... I get killed all the time, no biggie I restock and try again. If you want to be guided and told what skills you can have and how you have to play the game then please feel free to stick to the standard fare, if you want to try something different that might be the change you are looking for give it a go but please quit reposting the same tired post of how a game you never played sucks. 

what, you enjoy Darkfall? what a total raving fanboi!!!1111

Originally posted by javac 

omg a shred of actual insight. shame you lost it in the second paragraph though... there is no chance Darkfall will be shutting down t this point. there's no sign of DF even slowing down or going anywhere but up atm

Let's pull the X-Fire card when it's in our favor, shall we? However, when not in our favor, we deny its statistics and call Xfire crap.

Xfire still isn't in your favor and you pull it as your trump. Fail.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by javac 

there is no chance Darkfall will be shutting down t this point. there's no sign of DF even slowing down or going anywhere but up

I'm not so sure.

They spent millions developing this game, yet have no physical distribution anywhere, and sales are limited to whenever they decide to open the store. It's impossible for any business to recoup their investments that way. They've got to be hemorrhaging cash right now, because there's no way that limited subs and such tightly controlled sales are making them any money, especially when you consider paychecks that have to be written, bills that have to be paid, overhead costs to keep the doors open, and investors that want their money repaid.

I don't see any rational reason for Tasos to be flying off the handle like he has been over a single review unless he's trying to kick the hornets nest and get the fans distracted. Give them a scapegoat to be pissed off at if the game folds anytime soon. It's the only thing that makes sense. A single review shouldn't provoke the kind of reaction that Tasos is having, no matter how bad and/or unfair that review might be.

 

You make valid points. However I am not sure it will shut down yet. Still think there is a chance a major player might pick it up on the cheap first. And this review may be hurting that chance. However every game gets hammered in some ways. The way he is flying off shows even more these people cannot possible run a business. Hell Microsoft gets crucified no matter what they do and they seem to be doing ok. This is the wrong battle to fight. They cant talk to their base or update a simple website but they can stir the mouthbreathers by starting a public pissing contest. This makes no sense but entertaining it is.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Kyleran 

Actually, this is one conspiracy theory that doesn't sound all that far out.

Maybe so, maybe so.

Now, I don't pretend to know AV's business behind the scenes. However, I *am* currently up to my eyeballs in business classes and I'm trying to look at all this from a management point of view.

What possible reason is there for the lead designer of a game (and, presumably, the CEO of the company) to repeatedly fly off the handle like this over a single bad and/or unfair review? Bad reviews are nothing new in the games industry. Unfair reviews can be discussed quietly behind the scenes with the game company and the website/magazine who printed that review, with a retraction and/or apology posted after the fact. There's no logical explanation why anyone would have multiple back-to-back walls of public nerd rage text over a game review unless there's something else at work here.

Plus, I'm trying to think about all the money they spent developing this game, only to have such limited sales, no physical distribution of DF, and such a tight grip over how often anyone can have access to the game. Those things don't compute. You don't spend millions of dollars making a game to only sell it at your website and only on certain dates and times. It's impossible to recoup your investment that way.

There's a lot more at work here that AV isn't saying. Such an extreme overreaction to a single review just doesn't make any sense unless they're trying to kick up enough dust so the fans will have someone else to blame when Darkfall folds.

What I honestly think.

Sites like EG, IGN, 1UP and such don't pay for the games they review.  Typically they get sent to them or the publications request the  games for review.

DFO is technically in it's EU release, although it is available to anyone, Tasos has been pretty clear that this is thier EU release.
EG is actually one of the biggest EU gaming sites.

I believe that EG is the only people to have recieved copies of the game for review, and that's why Tasos is in such an uproar.  That's why he doesn't want them to do another review. 

He may not believe that any other site or publication is playing the game for review yet because they either haven't requested copies or he hasn't sent them one.

If EG is the only site that was able to review the game right now, the bad review would be incredibly damning for Av.  How long before any other group is able to get in and actually test it? 

Some people here may think that a reviewer needs to spend countless hours in game, playing every feature available to write up a review, but honestly they don't.  Especially were DFO is conscerned. 

DFO has one very redeeming quality.  It's the only MMO I've ever played that from the moment you log in, you are able to do "end game".  You don't need to play for a few months in order to be apart of the core game.  At the same time that one quality is also one of it's more negetive features to me.  There's nothing to look forward to other then leveling skills, and that just becomes a grind.   Of all the MMO's on the market DFO is one of the easiest to review in a short period of time because it's a twitch based game that doesn't require countless hours to experience the bulk of what it has to offer.

Crafting is a single click of a button.  You don't need hours upon hours to review that or write up a thurough piece on it.
Harvesting is the same.
Nothing in combat changes drastically regarless of the amount of time you spend in it.  Archery is the same regarless of how long you do it, melee is the same, magic is the same.  The only thing that changes is the number of skills you can use, and then that isn 't even all that much over the first couple of months. 

Darkfall presents itself in almost it's entirety within the first couple hours.  The fans are obviously going to disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that gameplay doesn't drastically change from 1 hour in to 20 hours in. 

I would personally challenge anyone to tell me I'm wrong.
I played for an average of 3-5 hours a day for almost 2 months.  How many hours is that?  In one week it's about 20, in a month and a half it's...120!

In over 100 hours gameplay barely changed.
Tasos knows this.  They built the game intentionally to in a way that makes a new player as viable as an experienced one.  They know full well you don't need an abundant amount of time to figure out if it's a good game or not.
He most likely expected EG to give them a moderate score because they're an indy company, they were the only site he was aware of that was reviewing the game, and he's concerned that if no one else is doing a review any time soon that the EG one is going to have a real impact on them.

But Tasos should have known better.
This is why you don't let people review a game that's in beta.

 It seems as if tasos is setting his company up to shutdown and blame the EG review why they shut down. They are going to shut down this year, this is just giving them an excuse. "Irreperable damage". I'm sorry no. The irreperable damage is opening only 1 server and not even letting people buy the game before they find out how bad it is. Even a smart company who had a crap product like this would sell as many copies as they could before shutting down.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by javac 

there is no chance Darkfall will be shutting down t this point. there's no sign of DF even slowing down or going anywhere but up

I'm not so sure.

They spent millions developing this game, yet have no physical distribution anywhere, and sales are limited to whenever they decide to open the store. It's impossible for any business to recoup their investments that way. They've got to be hemorrhaging cash right now, because there's no way that limited subs and such tightly controlled sales are making them any money, especially when you consider paychecks that have to be written, bills that have to be paid, overhead costs to keep the doors open, and investors that want their money repaid.

it cost them less than 10mill euro to make, they have 20-40K subs, let's call it 25K for the sake of argument.

25K * 42 euro = 1.05 mill euro, plus 275K euro / month. it's enough to break even at least.

Why has no answer the question?Why is there only ONE Darkfall review.

I will answer it again because Darkfall is in limited release(with no NA server) and anyone can't pick up and play if they want too. It would lead to pretty funny review "I give Darkfall 10 out of 10 but if you actually want to play you have to sign on certain time of day when the shops opens and pray you are one of the people who get a copy"

I am not bashing the game Darkfall, i am bashing AV for being stupid.It sucks for AV but eurogamer is the only major reviewer who can legit review their game because a largest group of people playing is europe.It would extremely bad for somebody review darkfall give it a 10.Then hundreds of people flock to play the game and can't get a copy.

I will repeat i never seen a company beg for score like AV is doing.It is only because their one review and it is bad one that is big deal.You think Blizzard/Wow give dam that Alt gaming gave them a 60.They are million reviews praising WoW.

I don't hate darkfall.Darkfall is not a 2,i have played enough bad Korean mmo to know what a two is.You have to find this funny that Av and Darkfall nation freakin out over one review.Also the true fun is going to come when the other reviews do come in.Darkfall won't get a 2 agian but the result probably won't be much better.

Originally posted by Benthon

Originally posted by javac 

omg a shred of actual insight. shame you lost it in the second paragraph though... there is no chance Darkfall will be shutting down t this point. there's no sign of DF even slowing down or going anywhere but up atm

 

Let's pull the X-Fire card when it's in our favor, shall we? However, when not in our favor, we deny its statistics and call Xfire crap.

Xfire still isn't in your favor and you pull it as your trump. Fail.

I noticed that too, lol.

Originally posted by javac

it cost them less than 10mill euro to make, they have 20-40K subs, let's call it 25K for the sake of argument.

 

25K * 42 euro = 1.05 mill euro, plus 275K euro / month. it's enough to break even at least.

Lets call is <9000 for accuracy sake.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by javac 

there is no chance Darkfall will be shutting down t this point. there's no sign of DF even slowing down or going anywhere but up

I'm not so sure.

They spent millions developing this game, yet have no physical distribution anywhere, and sales are limited to whenever they decide to open the store. It's impossible for any business to recoup their investments that way. They've got to be hemorrhaging cash right now, because there's no way that limited subs and such tightly controlled sales are making them any money, especially when you consider paychecks that have to be written, bills that have to be paid, overhead costs to keep the doors open, and investors that want their money repaid.

it cost them less than 10mill euro to make, they have 20-40K subs, let's call it 25K for the sake of argument.

 

25K * 42 euro = 1.05 mill euro, plus 275K euro / month. it's enough to break even at least.

Oh crap, here's javac again, spouting out the SUB numbers for darkfall.

By the way, all the money MMO companies get from subscriptions is not considered profit. For MOST mmos they require a lot of that money for maintenance and such.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by javac 

there is no chance Darkfall will be shutting down t this point. there's no sign of DF even slowing down or going anywhere but up

I'm not so sure.

They spent millions developing this game, yet have no physical distribution anywhere, and sales are limited to whenever they decide to open the store. It's impossible for any business to recoup their investments that way. They've got to be hemorrhaging cash right now, because there's no way that limited subs and such tightly controlled sales are making them any money, especially when you consider paychecks that have to be written, bills that have to be paid, overhead costs to keep the doors open, and investors that want their money repaid.

it cost them less than 10mill euro to make, they have 20-40K subs, let's call it 25K for the sake of argument.

 

25K * 42 euro = 1.05 mill euro, plus 275K euro / month. it's enough to break even at least.

You have been called out for putting out sub numbers before, that you know nothing about..
 

Just sayin..

Oh and the numbers are always diffrent.

Get a job on Seseme Street. When they introduce the number for the day you can pull it out of your ass, and all the kids will think thats the coolest thing.

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by javac 

there is no chance Darkfall will be shutting down t this point. there's no sign of DF even slowing down or going anywhere but up

I'm not so sure.

They spent millions developing this game, yet have no physical distribution anywhere, and sales are limited to whenever they decide to open the store. It's impossible for any business to recoup their investments that way. They've got to be hemorrhaging cash right now, because there's no way that limited subs and such tightly controlled sales are making them any money, especially when you consider paychecks that have to be written, bills that have to be paid, overhead costs to keep the doors open, and investors that want their money repaid.

it cost them less than 10mill euro to make, they have 20-40K subs, let's call it 25K for the sake of argument.

 

25K * 42 euro = 1.05 mill euro, plus 275K euro / month. it's enough to break even at least.

Prove any of that.

You can't.  Stop making things up.

And are't you the guy that admitted to afk macroing in game?  Yes you are; that makes you more detrimental to the game then anyone of the "haters" here on this site.   
You're an admitted cheater.  Nothing you say holds any weight.

Originally posted by Ltldogg

I am enjoying this train wreck myself because I feel vindicated for my choice to wait on this game.  I was very hopeful for DF for years before release,  but very critical of Tasos' lies and deceipt.  After the final delay of the game, I posted on the official forums that I would wait 6 months before playing having made the mistake of playing previous MMOs at launch that should still be in beta.  Ironically, it seems the game won't be around at the 6 month mark and if it is, I wouldn't dare give 1 cents to this unprofessional company.

To the fans of DF, I suggest you seriously step away from the situation and ask yourself, is this the game promised AND is this the professionalism and PR you want to support.  I understand first hand that the MMO landscape is currently disappointing, but supporting crappy games just because they are different is not helping, AND in fact hurting the genre.

I envy you; I decided to give it a try after following it for years and managed to nab an account within the first few days of sales. Played it for a a little over a month in a good sized guild before I was too bored and digusted iwth it to continue on. I would try to sell my account, but it goes against my conscience in that I feel I would be ripping someone off. What's more pathetic I ask you...that I resubbed a few days before washing my hand of the game or that they are tying to pass off a very mediocre game as a premium game?

Originally posted by Ryukan

Originally posted by Ltldogg

I am enjoying this train wreck myself because I feel vindicated for my choice to wait on this game.  I was very hopeful for DF for years before release,  but very critical of Tasos' lies and deceipt.  After the final delay of the game, I posted on the official forums that I would wait 6 months before playing having made the mistake of playing previous MMOs at launch that should still be in beta.  Ironically, it seems the game won't be around at the 6 month mark and if it is, I wouldn't dare give 1 cents to this unprofessional company.

To the fans of DF, I suggest you seriously step away from the situation and ask yourself, is this the game promised AND is this the professionalism and PR you want to support.  I understand first hand that the MMO landscape is currently disappointing, but supporting crappy games just because they are different is not helping, AND in fact hurting the genre.

 

I envy you; I decided to give it a try after following it for years and managed to nab an account within the first few days of sales. Played it for a a little over a month in a good sized guild before I was too bored and digusted iwth it to continue on. I would try to sell my account, but it goes against my conscience in that I feel I would be ripping someone off. What's more pathetic I ask you...that I resubbed a few days before washing my hand of the game or that they are tying to pass off a very mediocre game as a premium game?

My advice to you would be to look close to where you live for an elementary or middle school. Observe the kids and look for the loudest socially unacceptable bully. Maybe you catch him vandalizing something. If you can catch him in the act of doing something bad, pull him aside and tell him you will either sell him your darkfail acct, or tell his parents.
 

That way you won't feel bad.

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by Ryukan

Originally posted by Ltldogg

I am enjoying this train wreck myself because I feel vindicated for my choice to wait on this game.  I was very hopeful for DF for years before release,  but very critical of Tasos' lies and deceipt.  After the final delay of the game, I posted on the official forums that I would wait 6 months before playing having made the mistake of playing previous MMOs at launch that should still be in beta.  Ironically, it seems the game won't be around at the 6 month mark and if it is, I wouldn't dare give 1 cents to this unprofessional company.

To the fans of DF, I suggest you seriously step away from the situation and ask yourself, is this the game promised AND is this the professionalism and PR you want to support.  I understand first hand that the MMO landscape is currently disappointing, but supporting crappy games just because they are different is not helping, AND in fact hurting the genre.

 

I envy you; I decided to give it a try after following it for years and managed to nab an account within the first few days of sales. Played it for a a little over a month in a good sized guild before I was too bored and digusted iwth it to continue on. I would try to sell my account, but it goes against my conscience in that I feel I would be ripping someone off. What's more pathetic I ask you...that I resubbed a few days before washing my hand of the game or that they are tying to pass off a very mediocre game as a premium game?

My advice to you would be to look close to where you live for an elementary or middle school. Observe the kids and look for the loudest socially unacceptable bully. Maybe you catch him vandalizing something. If you can catch him in the act of doing something bad, pull him aside and tell him you will either sell him your darkfail acct, or tell his parents.
 

That way you won't feel bad.

LMAO! Thank you for my second genuine out loud laugh of the day!

It is really ironic. If Tasos and co had not spend so much time on this. A lot less poeple would have known about this review and website. Beside that, most poeple do not judge a game on only one review as most poeple know that it is a one mans opinion. It is also logical that they support the writer. Who would you prefer to trust? A person you work with for a while or a  person from an indi company protecting his game?

All of this reminds me of an old expression.

"Cutting off the nose to spite the face."

Originally posted by DarkPony

*ponders*

The more I think about Tasos' latest lengthy contribution the more I get this creepy feeling that he is trying to put the blame for something else somewhere where it doesn't belong.

I do believe that the review was conducted badly and its conclusions ARE unfair, but the way T reacts now suggests there is a much deeper problem AV is facing at this moment. He really shouldn't have to overshoot like that.

Just keep it simple and stick to the facts and (most of) the crowd would have continued cheering. The whole "murdered innocence" role with doom prophecies about how his game is suffering over this is a little suspicious. I do hope for the players AV isn't pulling the plug in the near future and try to put the blame for their own shortcomings on an obviously weak excuse for a review to save what little is left of their credibility.

/tinfoil hat off

I wonder this too. Why through a public temper tantrum if you are not even going to allow a second review? Could it be he knows the game will have to shut down soon and is already laying the groundwork for an excuse to deflect the blame (it wasn't the game it was the naughty reviewers and haters that killed it)? Kinda reminds of another developer that oversaw a train wreck of a project.... Dark and Light anybody?

Probably just being a conspiracy nut, but for all of oyu that love this game, I pray it doesn't end up being another Dark and Light...

Kieran already stated he would have barely given DF a 4/10 using Eurogamers rating system. That is why Tasos decided against using him.

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Kieran already stated he would have barely given DF a 4/10 using Eurogamers rating system. That is why Tasos decided against using him.

Hrm?  Was this publicized somewhere, I can't imagine someone saying this in his position.

Originally posted by Adigiron

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Kieran already stated he would have barely given DF a 4/10 using Eurogamers rating system. That is why Tasos decided against using him.

 

Hrm?  Was this publicized somewhere, I can't imagine someone saying this in his position.

yes it was.

Tragicly, I'm too lazy to go back and find tis link..its in one of these threads though.

Originally posted by Adigiron

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Kieran already stated he would have barely given DF a 4/10 using Eurogamers rating system. That is why Tasos decided against using him.

 

Hrm?  Was this publicized somewhere, I can't imagine someone saying this in his position.

It's in one of these "eurogamer" threads. Link and all. I'm trying to hunt it down now.

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by Adigiron

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Kieran already stated he would have barely given DF a 4/10 using Eurogamers rating system. That is why Tasos decided against using him.

 

Hrm?  Was this publicized somewhere, I can't imagine someone saying this in his position.

 

yes it was.

Tragicly, I'm too lazy to go back and find tis link..its in one of these threads though.

fair enough, I'll dig through the crap.