15€ or like isn't too much per month realy.

It all depends on what you spend money. Probaly quite a lot could be trimmed down, if you wanted. Could easily cut it down, I could eat cheaper take-out food (from 12.20 to 8-3,5). On other hand I don't have much problems even at my current income level(about 250€ a month(and some savings) and some cash from parents for food and recreation(also this is Finland which isn't the cheapest country to live in...).  Also, this might be due me being somewhat asocial...

Personaly I have start loosing intrest in MMORPGs more of burden than entertaiment, still now one beta is quite entertaining and it's free...

I guess I should never move to the U.K. I don't drink so I'd never get any action. :(

Seriously though if a $15/mo MMO subscription is seen as a critical spending decision you have bigger problems to solve.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Wizardry

Yes if you work,you would be in the minority if you can't find 15 bucks of free cash.I would bet more than 90% waste 15 bucks a month on something foolish,so the decision is where you want to waste your money,but if you want to play a P2P game,you can find the cash.

You of course realize 15 bucks a month is 50 cents a day,,umm i am pretty sure even a paper route can afford 50 cents a day.When you think about it,the developers bandwidth alone,would barely be covered by 50 cents a day.

 

Some people have no job so 50 cents a day would be a luxury for them.

Get a quarter off 2 random strangers every day, and you've got your MMO paid.

It must suck to live in Europe.  Maybe you should contact your representative and tell them to lower your taxes.

$15 dollars could buy me over a month's worth of food here (Top Ramen FTW)

Originally posted by Daedrick

Man, I havent read pass the title. But anyone saying they cant afford it is god damn stupid. 15$ is one dinner. Skip a dinner per month and you can afford it.

Im so tired of stupid people.

 

Damn, I really wish I'd done the same.  I actually wasted my time reading the whole damn thread.

$15/month?  Please.  You don't even have to skip freaking food to accomodate that.

Oh, and to the guy saying you have to play 24/7 to make the $15 not feel "wasted", what?  Compare the time to cost ratio for the entertainment an MMO gives.  Go to a movie, you're spending $10-15 per person easy, if you buy any food or drink especially.  That's 2 hours, if the movie runs longer than average anymore.  So you can play your MMO for 2 hours, and it's as cost-effective as a movie outing (speaking of which, there's gas involved to get there).  If you really want to break it down, MMOs in their current form cost subscribers less than $.03 per hour counting every hour in the day.  If you play 2 hours per day it costs $.25.  Yeah, a quarter per hour.  That's a whopping $.50 per hour, if you play one hour per day.  Did you buy a USA Today?  Buy a coke from a drink machine?  Did you smoke 2-3 cigs today (yeah, smokes for premium brands are between $4-5 now)?

Actually, it's SHOCKING how cheap games are still.  I remember SNES games running $30-50 almost 20 years ago.  The prices are not really different anymore.  Given what games offer these days, it's even more shocking, especially given inflation over the past 20 years.  Amazing to think that gaming is the one thing that's not really scaled in cost through the years.  I say be grateful that PC games are only $50 with a $15/month, because in all reality it's amazing they've stayed as cheap as they are, given rising costs everywhere else.

 Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. 

$15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish.

My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. 

If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.

$15 a month is not an issue for me, and I'm a broke college student.

But if it goes any higher, I may just stop playing P2P MMOs all together.

On the F2P issue, you can get by without having to pay. It is just very tempting to pay for an edge in-game.

Originally posted by Vyava

 Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. 

$15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish.

My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. 

If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.

This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Vyava

 Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. 

$15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish.

My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. 

If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.

 

This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.

I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree.  I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either.  However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic.  I subscribe to one game at a time.  My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact).  We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones.  The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples).  If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.

I stand by my original reply here.  $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one.  If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age.  Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per).  Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed.  Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment?  Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk?  Nope.  I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming.  I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.

Originally posted by Shiymmas

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Vyava

 Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. 

$15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish.

My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. 

If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.

 

This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree.  I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either.  However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic.  I subscribe to one game at a time.  My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact).  We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones.  The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples).  If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.

 

I stand by my original reply here.  $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one.  If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age.  Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per).  Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed.  Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment?  Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk?  Nope.  I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming.  I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.

Agreed that it is still the cheapest form of entertainment today but you completely are missing the point and perhaps unaware of how people around the world today are jobless and they don't have that $15 a month like they used to.

The question is not if you can cut elsewhere to have the $15 a month, but rather if it is worth it. $15 a month on a hobby is one thing, but MMOs are not the only hobbies out there.

Examples:

$15 a month will make ~6 gallons of wine and take numerous hours. Roughly 10 gallons of cider if you buy from the orchard or roughly 2 gallons of mead.

It costs me roughly $2 a month in maintenace (not counting my time) to keep 4 bicycles in repair.

I spend $20 a month keeping three guitars stringed and repaired.

$15 is also not a lot to spend getting out of the house with a significant other and worth a lot more to many than more screen time. It is all relative.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Shiymmas

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Vyava

 Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. 

$15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish.

My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. 

If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.

 

This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree.  I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either.  However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic.  I subscribe to one game at a time.  My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact).  We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones.  The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples).  If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.

 

I stand by my original reply here.  $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one.  If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age.  Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per).  Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed.  Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment?  Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk?  Nope.  I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming.  I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.

 

Agreed that it is still the cheapest form of entertainment today but you completely are missing the point and perhaps unaware of how people around the world today are jobless and they don't have that $15 a month like they used to.

Likewise you are completely missing the point that those very people will require a PC capable of running today's games, an internet connection (most likely high-speed, ranging from what, $15-20++/mo), and time to play said game.  I'm sorry if it seems insensitive, because I swear it isn't meant to be, but should these jobless, cashless people be playing an MMO?  Do those folks have cable TV still adding a bill each month?  Should they be forking over $50 up front for a game?

If your point is that, in all, there are less people capable of paying $15/mo than there used to be, then I'll agree.  However, gaming, and the time to do so, is a luxury and not a right.  That this post has implications that if the fee were $10 or even $5/mo that more people would be playing is ridiculous.  I doubt the gaming companies could even keep the servers running at those costs.  To top it all off, there is a genre of MMO called F2P.  You may feel inclined to buy items from malls in these games, but for all intents and purposes, they are free and never, ever require to buy anything, or pay a monthly fee.

Sincerely, I'm sorry if someone can no longer afford $15, but like drinking, smoking, and many other frivolous things people pay for daily, gaming is a luxury, privilege, or whatever you want to refer to it as, but it's not a right.  Complaining of $15/mo for such a thing, I can't reiterate enough, is ludicrous.

As an aside, I agree that companies need to stop releasing and charging $50 for a beta-in-a-box.  Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, though.

By the by...

I am not arguing against QUALITY MMOS being worth $15 a month. I really do not consider a $15 subscription fee inapporiate at all for a qulaity game with proper developer support.

My points are:

1. Many people will find more value spending their $15s elsewhere (and that those who do should not be insulted).

2. Questioning the value of a subscription is a good thing to increase the quality of MMO releases. Honestly the genre has been on a downward slide ever since publishers realised the hype/effort/profit ratio. Lets face it there has been a lot of decent games but nothing all that great (or innovative) in ages. The best way to get change is to reconsider what is worth paying for.

Originally posted by Vyava

The question is not if you can cut elsewhere to have the $15 a month, but rather if it is worth it. $15 a month on a hobby is one thing, but MMOs are not the only hobbies out there.

 

Examples:

$15 a month will make ~6 gallons of wine and take numerous hours. Roughly 10 gallons of cider if you buy from the orchard or roughly 2 gallons of mead.

It costs me roughly $2 a month in maintenace (not counting my time) to keep 4 bicycles in repair.

I spend $20 a month keeping three guitars stringed and repaired.

 

$15 is also not a lot to spend getting out of the house with a significant other and worth a lot more to many than more screen time. It is all relative.

Well, you're dead on with the term relative.  I do 100% agree with that.

Still, though, it's something that's as simple as personal preference, and it's ridiculous for people to argue the price of MMOs.  It'll all boil down to personal opinion at the end of the day, and that's that.  If playing an MMO isn't worth $15 for you for a month, then don't play - it's not rocket science.  I just can't believe people can't understand that, and that this topic even exists.

There's many reasons to complain about the state of current MMOs, but the monthly fee, IMO, is not one of them when compared and contrasted to other things, especially given its consistency over the past 10 years.

BTW, I couldn't agree more that a good movie outing can be worth the $30 you'll spend taking yourself and a significant other to such a thing.  I'd also have to add that rare is the occassion that such movies are released worth watching anymore, though - not too different than the MMO scene if you ask me.  From that standpoint I can totally agree with the $50 box cost and $15/mo being too much for some games, but likewise to me not going to nearly as many movies as I once did, don't pay for/play the crappy MMOs out there IMO.

Originally posted by Vyava

By the by...

I am not arguing against QUALITY MMOS being worth $15 a month. I really do not consider a $15 subscription fee inapporiate at all for a qulaity game with proper developer support.

My points are:

1. Many people will find more value spending their $15s elsewhere (and that those who do should not be insulted).

I think you completely misunderstood my original reply, then.  Taking your money elsewhere (speaking with your wallet) is absolutely great.  Acting as if $15 is going to break the bank (where the OP's point lies, in my interpretation) is absurd.  His original post essentially states that 3 beers in Europe is of greater value than an MMO subscription, while complaining the cost is too high, all while living in a $4500/mo apartment.  Get real.

2. Questioning the value of a subscription is a good thing to increase the quality of MMO releases. Honestly the genre has been on a downward slide ever since publishers realised the hype/effort/profit ratio. Lets face it there has been a lot of decent games but nothing all that great (or innovative) in ages. The best way to get change is to reconsider what is worth paying for.

I have to disagree that questioning the cost of subs is a good thing.  The costs of running and maintaining their servers is likely just covered by the fees, with perhaps a minor amount actually making it to the profit side.  The fact is, yes hype is ridiculous also.  People SHOULD be speaking with their wallets, and not buying trash games.  Look at the waiting line for Darkfall, mostly because people just want to see for themselves how godawful it is after reading about it (see the shiny red button? DON'T PUSH IT!!  **smash**).  However, customers just need need to be more cautious of bad products.  AoC and WHO are good examples of what happens when you release a bad product - they've both lost plenty of $ for their respective companies, and I believe that says plenty.

Would I be happy if games cost less for a box and less for the sub?  Hell yes.  Will I ever complain about a $50 box and a $15/mo game?  Absolutely not.  I don't dare buy a game without a trial and plenty of reading anymore.  I'm a very discerning consumer, and have noone to blame but myself if I buy a shit product.

The reply wasn't specific to you. I just reread the thread and realized the tone I responded in and wanted to correct it.

I stand firm on questioning the costs of a subscription however.

We are consumers and we create change with our wallets. If you are satisfied with a game paying the subscription then great, but if you are not then time to act. I see thread after thread complaining about all sorts of issues in MMOs. If people are on the edge contented or not then start asking yourself what would you pay? If it is less than what you are paying now then I would suggest questioning what you are paying.

I agree people need to be more cautious when purchasing MMOs in general, but just giving a game a thumbs up or down isn't going to help the genre. We as consumers need to start showing publishers where the line is for cost/enjoyment. If we don't then publishers will only charge us the same for inferior products.

For me..it's about cutting down on ALL expenses..... especially discretionary ones. I haven't found a game worth my $15 dollars atm.

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

I'm just wondering who else feels the same and if the free 2 player model or micro transactions which let me play for free but buy something when I can afford to will catch on in a big way.

Im playing a game where they just added something like that called live gamer.  This game has user developed UI modifications that most people use.  The live gamer button does not show with some of the most widely used UI mods, but there has been not enough interest in the live gamer for the UI developers to even patch the UI mods to show it.  Thats just to show you that no, microtransactions will not catch on in a big way.  Most people in amero/european mmos dont want it.  But if that is what you like there are some asian mmo's that you might want to try.

Where i live , 15$ could buy me 4 lunches.

So that is easily 4 days of 30. That is considered a chunk in monthly budget.

But allright.

Not only that i pay 50$ for a game , and than continue to pay and pay all over again.

But MORE IMPORTANTLY there is no game that justifies 15$ anymore.

Paying 15$ for all those half baked , wow copy, artificial grind , crap ... i had enough of it.

I rather play free games.

They are just as bad, but at least they cost me nothing

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

I have an average Job where I get paid paid double the average wage here which is higher than most of my mates and they do ok jobs like repairing PC's and stuff. I have bills which are increasing and I have petrol costs and then I have costs like going out on the weekend and buying beer which is a social must here in the UK cause if you don't drink then you ain't getting laid and you wont be having fun as alcohol is out culture here.

I can only afford to live without my parents because I have a room mate and we split the bills and it costs us nearly £3000 a month betwwen us just to live and that leavs us with a tiny amount of cash each every month. I'm talking in the hundreds and I buy games and I just bought a new motorbike and I have other things to pay for and I can't really afford them things onto of the bills that just allow me to live.

My point is that $15 is like around £10 or whateveer the economy is now and that buys me 3 beers or food for a few days or a tank of petrol on my motorbike. That £10 is vital for me and I've just found myself deciding between subscribing to an mmorpg or doing something else I need with it and everything else wins out over the mmorpg.

I'm just wondering who else feels the same and if the free 2 player model or micro transactions which let me play for free but buy something when I can afford to will catch on in a big way.

It sounds to me like you're a young adult (18-25) and still don't know how to relax and enjoy yourself. When I was your age I did the same thing, because all my mates did it and that's what young adults were meant to do. I moved away in my late teens and worked around east Asia for many years and on my visits back I saw my mates going out to get drunken sex off the bride of Frankenstein each Friday and Saturday night and laughed.

On your forrays out to nightclubs to get some bad sex (I know at your age there is no such thing as bad sex), have you ever seen many men aged 40+? Probably not, if you have they're either perverts looking to bang paralitic children. The reason I don't do it anymore is because I discovered that I can get laid wthout having to get drunk in order to get the courage or get a child wasted before she'll sleep with me, and having sex with a woman that has had a skinfull isn't alot of fun.

Try meeting women wether through friends, family, work or online and go to dinner with them or something. I know it seems like I'm being a stupid old fuddy duddy but the type of women that goes out to get drunken and have sex the same night is a called a whore in my opinion. Also I've seen some pretty nasty horror stories in the East when guys such as yourself went out got plastered then woke up with the next day either, robbed or with a transvestite/transexual or robbed by a transvestite/transexual. Some were drugged and had their passports and travellers cheques robbed, all because he thought he needed to be plastered to get laid.

In short, ditch the "Alchopops" culture in the UK, stop shagging drunken Chavs that looked like they escaped from thye monkey house at Chessington zoo. Save some cash and date some women that don't drop their knickers after a pint and a few songs. Even move back in with your parents to save some money, you have a job so they won't mind and I don't see it hurting your "love life" the way it is at the moment!

If you doubt me you only need to watch a few DNA tests on Jeremy Kyle to know that I'm right mate!

"You're the father"

"What about those 3 other blokes?"

"I was drunk, so that don't matter!"