http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/editors-blog-darkfall-aftermath-blog-entry

Yesterday Eurogamer MMO published a review of Darkfall Online, scoring the game 2/10.

Several hours later, after a bit of email discussion, Aventurine responded on its forum, claiming the review was factually inaccurate and the reviewer had played the game for only two hours.

As I said to Tasos Flambouras from Aventurine yesterday, I take any feedback on our reviews - and especially this kind of response - extremely seriously. However, I disagree with Flambouras' depiction of events.

The reviewer in question, Ed Zitron, disputes the server logs that Aventurine presents as fact. According to the logs they supplied, Ed played the game for just over three hours. Ed says the logs miss out two crucial days and understate others, which suggests they are incomplete, and he insists he played the game for at least nine hours.

I did tell Flambouras - as he writes on the forum - that Ed is a contributor rather than a staff writer, but the implication is that I said this to distance Ed from Eurogamer. This is wrong. Ed Zitron has my full support.

As I told Flambouras, Ed's references and background are immaculate, as many PC Zone readers will attest. I also do not believe server logs are incontrovertible proof of the scenario Aventurine describes. Aventurine says Ed's response is a "lie", and demanded that I take down the review and issue a retraction, but I can't do that on the basis of the evidence presented.

Speaking as someone who hasn't played the game, questions of factual accuracy are more difficult for me to quantify (although the review thread has a crack, and you should read it if you're interested). It's also hard to judge from a distance whether two, nine or 50 hours would be appropriate to review Darkfall, as this clearly varies enormously from game to game.

That said, the passion with which Aventurine has attacked Ed's review is considerable, and the allegations obviously go a long way beyond arguing the toss. With this in mind, it seems only fair to take another look at Darkfall to supplement the review we've already published.

I've already contacted another one of our PC writers, Kieron Gillen, who has agreed to review Darkfall. Kieron is a vastly experienced, award-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of Rock, Paper, Shotgun. I'll publish his review as soon as it's ready, and we will see whether he agrees with Ed or not.

It's safe to say that we've learned some lessons from this episode, and they will be beneficial when it comes to future reviews. In the meantime, any and all discussion of the subject on the forums and comments threads is fine. Just as game developers have to deal with the response to their work, so too do we, and you've every right to criticise and debate it.
 

Kieron Gillen will score it the same way Ed did.

Waiting for what the failboi's will throw at that one.

EDIT: Speling

This is the best soap opera I have ever seen. Someone needs to pick these two teams up, and put them on television. I'd watch them weekly. Right after "The Biggest Loser" for the ultimate in irony.

Incoming 1/10 and tasos wanting a 3rd review.

Originally posted by Benthon

Kieron Gillen will score it the same way Ed did.

Waiting for what the failboi's will throw at that one.

 

EDIT: Speling

I'm expecting the same thing.

The real nail is going to be another big gaming site also giving a bad review.

Tasos didn't provide complete logs?
I would have to believe the editor of eurogamer before I believe anything Tasos says.

I think EG will take the de-escalation route, agree with the review in the text but give it 3 or 4 out of 10 or something.  It will be shame though. I kind of hope the new review agrees with the old in text and score.

How many threads do we need on this?

Oh this is turning into a battle of epic stubborness and "who's got the biggest ego" .

Let the most pompous, arrogant b*stard win !!!

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

How many threads do we need on this?

Didn't see another one of this.

Edit: Just checked.
Nope.
This is the only thread in the DF forums here about the editors response. 
So, like, what this? are you talking about?

Haha, this is hilarious.  Aventurine is such a joke of an organization.  I bet Tasos will try to bribe the new reviewer, lol.  It would be awesome if the second review gives them 1/10, but it will probably be like 3/10 or 4/10 as someone else said.  Everyone knows this game is a pile of crap, even most of the inital player base have quit the game or been banned for cheating.  And the queue to win the lottery and buy an account is ever dwindling. 

It's a game called DarkFAIL.  Fan boys, admit you were wrong, the trolls were right all along.  Just go look at the website that hasn't been updated since the game went "gold", do you admit you were wrong yet and the game is crap run by a sham organzation of clowns???  LOL.  Congratulations, fanbots, you harmed the whole MMO community by propping up fifth rate products like Darkfall, you infested the clean waters of MMO with a huge explosion of diarrhea thus causing an E-coli ooutbreak across the interwebs.  But now your game will go bankrupt soon, bye bye.

I have to say, the editor comes off as a hell of a lot more intelligent, reasonable and rational than Tasos. I read the review, I read the Tasos response, and I read the editor response and I gotta admit that the logs are probably wrong. This crap happens alot especially when using an out of date or crappy log in servers. They don't always log info the way you'd think they should.

But another thing that bothers me is this. I got my account, and I played for 2 hours. That was enough time for me to figure out the game is buggy, the players are assholes (not all, but majority) and the graphics suck a fat one. I'm not going to waste my time (which I deem valuable) playing a game for 10, 20, or even 30 hours more to see "if I like it later". Fuck it, if I can't stand being logged in I'm not gonna bother. So if the journalist really did spend only 2 hours in game, I can't say I blame him.

Originally posted by SuperCrap

Haha, this is hilarious.  Aventurine is such a joke of an organization.  I bet Tasos will try to bribe the new reviewer, lol.  It would be awesome if the second review gives them 1/10, but it will probably be like 3/10 or 4/10 as someone else said.  Everyone knows this game is a pile of crap, even most of the inital player base have quit the game or been banned for cheating.  And the queue to win the lottery and buy an account is ever dwindling. 

 

It's a game called DarkFAIL.  Fan boys, admit you were wrong, the trolls were right all along.  Just go look at the website that hasn't been updated since the game went "gold", do you admit you were wrong yet and the game is crap run by a sham organzation of clowns???  LOL.  Congratulations, fanbots, you harmed the whole MMO community by propping up fifth rate products like Darkfall, you infested the clean waters of MMO with a huge explosion of diarrhea thus causing an E-coli ooutbreak across the interwebs.  But now your game will go bankrupt soon, bye bye.

 

Whoa... "infested the clean waters of MMO"??? You must not have played Horizons :P omg that game seems like a dream compared to the time I spent in Darkfall. At least I felt like there was a point. And there is never a point in playing games, in the end. But they should be fun at the very least.  I'd rather stick my tit in a hot oven before wasting time in Darkfall again.

Originally posted by lemonella

<snip> 

inb4 you get tonnes of messages of, "WOMAN ON TEH INTARNETS"

Well i don't agree with Eurogamer.He is obviously biased once again by stating something ridiculous like "Ed Zitron past is immacualte",how the heck would we know that? does he have proof?

Does he have logs from every game Ed reviewed and got the ok from that games developer?I say BS to any of it,he is merely covering his ass now.

It was not even 9 hours playing the game,as the logs stated he spent several hours approx 6 making several different characters and messing with the creation screen.Who is to say he even moved around the other 3 once he was in the game?he may very well have spent less than 15 minutes playing time for al lwe know.

I back Tasos on this one,NOT Eurogamer.

I would bet this was a VERY rare case in that TAsos actually knew who the reviewers were because they asked for a couple accounts by name.Then the Eurogamer sent an email claiming the review was going to be nasty,so Tasos,wanted to see what was up,because he knew the timing and probably figured,this guy didn't have the account for more than a day or two,so howq could he form such a harsh judegment so quickly.This is why Tasos looked into the matter further,as we have not seen this from any other sites reviews.So this was obviously rare because the reviewer did NOT play the game and DID show a biased review.

I would bet this review by Ed Zitron was probably just copied from other site reviews,witch would explain why it matches up.

I can't decide which is the bigger PR blunder. tasos flaming a reviewer or Positrons statement about farming in MA in CoX. Then his silence, in the face of confusion about his statement... I'll go with Positron, since that could've been avoided. While tasos is tasos...

Originally posted by Wizardry

Well i don't agree with Eurogamer.He is obviously biased once again by stating something ridiculous like "Ed Zitron past is immacualte",how the heck would we know that? does he have proof?

Does he have logs from every game Ed reviewed and got the ok from that games developer?I say BS to any of it,he is merely covering his ass now.

It was not even 9 hours playing the game,as the logs stated he spent several hours approx 6 making several different characters and messing with the creation screen.Who is to say he even moved around the other 3 once he was in the game?he may very well have spent less than 15 minutes playing time for al lwe know.

I back Tasos on this one,NOT Eurogamer.

I would bet this was a VERY rare case in that TAsos actually knew who the reviewers were because they asked for a couple accounts by name.Then the Eurogamer sent an email claiming the review was going to be nasty,so Tasos,wanted to see what was up,because he knew the timing and probably figured,this guy didn't have the account for more than a day or two,so howq could he form such a harsh judegment so quickly.This is why Tasos looked into the matter further,as we have not seen this from any other sites reviews.So this was obviously rare because the reviewer did NOT play the game and DID show a biased review.

I would bet this review by Ed Zitron was probably just copied from other site reviews,witch would explain why it matches up.

I'm sorry but this post and let be known the only one backing DF in this thread, is a shamble. First of all; ALL of the reporters work would be easily accessible for anyone to see. Yes the editor would have 'logs' if you mean reports of his previous work, he is his employer..as for other work out of eurogamers if you check out his resume they would all be easily findable..

As for your calculations you just made up, no none of that is viable either. How can you even begin to assume and conclude that perhaps he has only played 15 minutes? The guy you are defending has already claimed there is a minimum of 2 hours logged under his account.

So then in the middle of your argument based on two very flawed points, you fully back tasos on nothing except numbers you came up with and a subjective bias.

Then you move on to say more information you just made up as it was already publically published by Tasos that he checked the accounts supplied to eurogamers for reviewing purposes after the review was published, not on a hunch, not after he got a email saying there was 'nasty things' about to be published..Then you question how he could possibly come up with a harsh review?? Have you watched the evolution of this game? Have you seen the hundreds cancel their subs and complain only to be banned?? They are real, they aren't a small minority, they have a point, this has actually happened.

Then you sum up by countering a point you made in the 2 SENTENCES before it, saying he copied a review that had negative things to say except there aren't any reviews like that. Then end with a claim that it matches up. Matches up to WHAT?

This entire post is a disgrace and a stunning swipe at logic and its fundamental conterpart the english language.

Originally posted by SamCoarse

Originally posted by Wizardry

Well i don't agree with Eurogamer.He is obviously biased once again by stating something ridiculous like "Ed Zitron past is immacualte",how the heck would we know that? does he have proof?

Does he have logs from every game Ed reviewed and got the ok from that games developer?I say BS to any of it,he is merely covering his ass now.

It was not even 9 hours playing the game,as the logs stated he spent several hours approx 6 making several different characters and messing with the creation screen.Who is to say he even moved around the other 3 once he was in the game?he may very well have spent less than 15 minutes playing time for al lwe know.

I back Tasos on this one,NOT Eurogamer.

I would bet this was a VERY rare case in that TAsos actually knew who the reviewers were because they asked for a couple accounts by name.Then the Eurogamer sent an email claiming the review was going to be nasty,so Tasos,wanted to see what was up,because he knew the timing and probably figured,this guy didn't have the account for more than a day or two,so howq could he form such a harsh judegment so quickly.This is why Tasos looked into the matter further,as we have not seen this from any other sites reviews.So this was obviously rare because the reviewer did NOT play the game and DID show a biased review.

I would bet this review by Ed Zitron was probably just copied from other site reviews,witch would explain why it matches up.

 

I'm sorry but this post and let be known the only one backing DF in this thread, is a shamble. First of all; ALL of the reporters work would be easily accessible for anyone to see. Yes the editor would have 'logs' if you mean reports of his previous work, he is his employer..as for other work out of eurogamers if you check out his resume they would all be easily findable..

 

As for your calculations you just made up, no none of that is viable either. How can you even begin to assume and conclude that perhaps he has only played 15 minutes? The guy you are defending has already claimed there is a minimum of 2 hours logged under his account.

 

So then in the middle of your argument based on two very flawed points, you fully back tasos on nothing except numbers you came up with and a subjective bias.

 

Then you move on to say more information you just made up as it was already publically published by Tasos that he checked the accounts supplied to eurogamers for reviewing purposes after the review was published, not on a hunch, not after he got a email saying there was 'nasty things' about to be published..Then you question how he could possibly come up with a harsh review?? Have you watched the evolution of this game? Have you seen the hundreds cancel their subs and complain only to be banned?? They are real, they aren't a small minority, they have a point, this has actually happened.

Then you sum up by countering a point you made in the 2 SENTENCES before it, saying he copied a review that had negative things to say except there aren't any reviews like that. Then end with a claim that it matches up. Matches up to WHAT?

 

This entire post is a disgrace and a stunning swipe at logic and its fundamental conterpart the english language.

Sam..you realize you are talking to a Darkfall fan right?

Originally posted by SuperCrap

Haha, this is hilarious.  Aventurine is such a joke of an organization.  I bet Tasos will try to bribe the new reviewer, lol.  It would be awesome if the second review gives them 1/10, but it will probably be like 3/10 or 4/10 as someone else said.  Everyone knows this game is a pile of crap, even most of the inital player base have quit the game or been banned for cheating.  And the queue to win the lottery and buy an account is ever dwindling. 

 

It's a game called DarkFAIL.  Fan boys, admit you were wrong, the trolls were right all along.  Just go look at the website that hasn't been updated since the game went "gold", do you admit you were wrong yet and the game is crap run by a sham organzation of clowns???  LOL.  Congratulations, fanbots, you harmed the whole MMO community by propping up fifth rate products like Darkfall, you infested the clean waters of MMO with a huge explosion of diarrhea thus causing an E-coli ooutbreak across the interwebs.  But now your game will go bankrupt soon, bye bye.

*block*

Damn, how many of you DF haters ARE therE?

Originally posted by Rasputin

Originally posted by SuperCrap

Haha, this is hilarious.  Aventurine is such a joke of an organization.  I bet Tasos will try to bribe the new reviewer, lol.  It would be awesome if the second review gives them 1/10, but it will probably be like 3/10 or 4/10 as someone else said.  Everyone knows this game is a pile of crap, even most of the inital player base have quit the game or been banned for cheating.  And the queue to win the lottery and buy an account is ever dwindling. 

 

It's a game called DarkFAIL.  Fan boys, admit you were wrong, the trolls were right all along.  Just go look at the website that hasn't been updated since the game went "gold", do you admit you were wrong yet and the game is crap run by a sham organzation of clowns???  LOL.  Congratulations, fanbots, you harmed the whole MMO community by propping up fifth rate products like Darkfall, you infested the clean waters of MMO with a huge explosion of diarrhea thus causing an E-coli ooutbreak across the interwebs.  But now your game will go bankrupt soon, bye bye.

 

*block*

Damn, how many of you DF haters ARE therE?

This is not a hater.This is a person who is riddled with common sense, and what he says here is undisputable. and 100% factual..

I get this eerie feeling I just watched an episode of Days of our Lives. Oh Samantha, were is Nicole ..............

Originally posted by Fariic

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/editors-blog-darkfall-aftermath-blog-entry

Yesterday Eurogamer MMO published a review of Darkfall Online, scoring the game 2/10.

Several hours later, after a bit of email discussion, Aventurine responded on its forum, claiming the review was factually inaccurate and the reviewer had played the game for only two hours.

As I said to Tasos Flambouras from Aventurine yesterday, I take any feedback on our reviews - and especially this kind of response - extremely seriously. However, I disagree with Flambouras' depiction of events.

The reviewer in question, Ed Zitron, disputes the server logs that Aventurine presents as fact. According to the logs they supplied, Ed played the game for just over three hours. Ed says the logs miss out two crucial days and understate others, which suggests they are incomplete, and he insists he played the game for at least nine hours.

I did tell Flambouras - as he writes on the forum - that Ed is a contributor rather than a staff writer, but the implication is that I said this to distance Ed from Eurogamer. This is wrong. Ed Zitron has my full support.

As I told Flambouras, Ed's references and background are immaculate, as many PC Zone readers will attest. I also do not believe server logs are incontrovertible proof of the scenario Aventurine describes. Aventurine says Ed's response is a "lie", and demanded that I take down the review and issue a retraction, but I can't do that on the basis of the evidence presented.

Speaking as someone who hasn't played the game, questions of factual accuracy are more difficult for me to quantify (although the review thread has a crack, and you should read it if you're interested). It's also hard to judge from a distance whether two, nine or 50 hours would be appropriate to review Darkfall, as this clearly varies enormously from game to game.

That said, the passion with which Aventurine has attacked Ed's review is considerable, and the allegations obviously go a long way beyond arguing the toss. With this in mind, it seems only fair to take another look at Darkfall to supplement the review we've already published.

I've already contacted another one of our PC writers, Kieron Gillen, who has agreed to review Darkfall. Kieron is a vastly experienced, award-winning journalist and one of the founding editors of Rock, Paper, Shotgun. I'll publish his review as soon as it's ready, and we will see whether he agrees with Ed or not.

It's safe to say that we've learned some lessons from this episode, and they will be beneficial when it comes to future reviews. In the meantime, any and all discussion of the subject on the forums and comments threads is fine. Just as game developers have to deal with the response to their work, so too do we, and you've every right to criticise and debate it.
 

 

If Tasos, AV, or the DF community have 1% of such tact and grace, I will sub to this game.

Sadly no.

Nice writing from EG, standing firm while offering to provide efforts to establish right from wrong.  I salute the chief editor as a supervisor, responsible for his staff, his company, and to the public.

In striking contrast, to hell with Tasos, he is ruining his company, his own image, and sanity of people watching his lunatic behaviour.

Originally posted by Orthedos 

If Tasos, AV, or the DF community have 1% of such tact and grace, I will sub to this game.

Sadly no.

Nice writing from EG, standing firm while offering to provide efforts to establish right from wrong.  I salute the chief editor as a supervisor, responsible for his staff, his company, and to the public.

In striking contrast, to hell with Tasos, he is ruining his company, his own image, and sanity of people watching his lunatic behaviour.

Agreed.

If Tasos or AV had any of that tact and grace, then DF wouldn't be mocked as much as it is.   But Tasos showed his colors years ago during the game's development, it's no surprise he hasn't changed much less matured now that the game is released.  

They got a bad review?  Awww, poor babies.   Welcome to the real world.   This kind of reaction is unprofessional and absurd, everything we've seen from Tasos in the past.  

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Originally posted by Orthedos 

If Tasos, AV, or the DF community have 1% of such tact and grace, I will sub to this game.

Sadly no.

Nice writing from EG, standing firm while offering to provide efforts to establish right from wrong.  I salute the chief editor as a supervisor, responsible for his staff, his company, and to the public.

In striking contrast, to hell with Tasos, he is ruining his company, his own image, and sanity of people watching his lunatic behaviour.

Agreed.

If Tasos or AV had any of that tact and grace, then DF wouldn't be mocked as much as it is.   But Tasos showed his colors years ago during the game's development, it's no surprise he hasn't changed much less matured now that the game is released.  

They got a bad review?  Awww, poor babies.   Welcome to the real world.   This kind of reaction is unprofessional and absurd, everything we've seen from Tasos in the past.  

Two things that worried me.

How can someone so idiotic gain faith of investors, now I wonder if I should put my money into the bank, as surely some of the money Tasos wasted comes from bank loans.

Second, how can ppl support Tasos, but nvm, if there is Tasos, there will be junior Tasos.  Much like fleas.