Originally posted by _Seeker

Originally posted by trancejeremy

People die in a lot of weird ways. When you consider how many people play MMORPGs, compared to how many people who have died because of them, it's probably hard to find anything with a lower death rate, really.

Sports - people get killed there all the time. Just recently, in my local team's baseball stadium, a drunk guy fell from the upper decks onto a woman (the guy is okay, the woman is critical).  This happens fairly often, actually, maybe once a year at baseball stadiums.

Heck, just going outside to do anything, you can get killed. Lightning, meteorites, bears, sharks, the swine flu.

 

That said, I do think companies should consider limiting how much a person can play a game in 24 hours. I would say 10 hours, myself.

Because for some, gaming is an addiction. But unlike a lot of addictions, there is really no limitation to it. If you gamble, you run out of money. Drugs or Alcohol, you eventually run out of the drugs or alcohol, and have to go buy more (and again, the money issue).

That said, I don't think companies should be forced to include a limit. But they should consider doing it voluntarily. It would benefit them in the long run. Reduce server costs, reduce amount of content needed in game, etc.

Exactly. Finally someone gets it. If a gaming company limits a game to being played 30-40 hours a week. It doesn't effect normal people. Would anyone here actually care if there was such a restriction? And if you did does that mean you are actually addicted and in denial?

I mean publicans have to do training called the Responsible Serving of alcohol. If someone wants to drink themselves into oblivion, at home, fine. If they do it in a public bar would you want to be there when something goes wrong? Or to be responsible for fueling it?

Excellent points Trancejeremy.

And it could also reduce the impact of farmers botters etc.

And what about the thousands of people who play mmorpgs due to the fact they are physically disabled and homebound most of the time? So because a few wankers can't handle their shit, and bleeding hearts like yourself think it's okay to limit the fun of the many for the safety of the idiotic few, a person who is legitimately disabled and plays to enjoy the comraderie and mobility they no longer enjoy in the real world should suffer?

Good thing I live in the U.S.A. and not some backwater dictatorship like China. Because if companies start doing that here, I and the rest of the majority of NA gamers can just move to a game which doesn't limit our freedom due to evolutionary rejects. See how long those limited play games last here. Actually, that's a good thing, as I don't really see us in the NA/EU really missing 1000 asian grinders.

By the way, go to Nevada and try to force casinos to limit playtime for their customers. You'll have the same appropriate result others did when they tried: laughed out of the fuckin' court room.

You guys want warnings on games, that's fine.

WARNING: ONLINE GAMES MAY BE ADDICTIVE. BY PLAYING YOU HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY MISHAP

RESULTING FROM YOUR OWN INABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR GAMING HABITS ARE YOUR SOLE RESPONSIBILITY

AND WE WILL NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN ANY WAY FOR YOUR LACK OF SELF - CONTROL AND/OR LACK OF GOOD JUDGEMENT. PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Originally posted by beeker255

Originally posted by _Seeker

It is ok for people to die playing MMO's. Because if you are playing MMO's you already have no life anyway. :)

In fact if you don't die after playing MMO's there's something wrong with Mother Nature.

 

hehe remined me of the WOW southpark episode..how do you kill one with no life or whatever :)

Probably the same way you try to reason with a delusion.

lol, o noes someone died. careface. Why should you interfere with someone elses life? when they should be able to choose what they want to do. I think you would be better off advocating for people not to do drugs- yet it wouldn't matter also. Anyways im sure there are people out there dieing from something much more retarded, though I could give 2 shits.

BTW as you say "holding someone accountable" I do understand that it is human nature to want to place the blame on someone, but thats like saying sue water because people have died from consuming too much. social darwinism let it be.

Originally posted by bobbler

....Why should you interfere with someone elses life? ....

....social darwinism let it be.

As stated before they have no life. It isn't interfering if they aren't capable of deciding for themselves. Don't you agree?

Darwin was a social misfit and a dropout. And he founded the damn theory you gentlemen keep referring to.

Out of curiosity. Just how many people are needed in society? I mean the bear minimum.

Originally posted by WisebutCruel

Originally posted by _Seeker

Originally posted by trancejeremy

People die in a lot of weird ways.

........

Reduce server costs, reduce amount of content needed in game, etc.

Exactly.

........

And it could also reduce the impact of farmers botters etc.

And what about the thousands of people who play mmorpgs due to the fact they are physically disabled and homebound most of the time? So because a few wankers can't handle their shit, and bleeding hearts like yourself think it's okay to limit the fun of the many for the safety of the idiotic few, a person who is legitimately disabled and plays to enjoy the comraderie and mobility they no longer enjoy in the real world should suffer?

Good thing I live in the U.S.A. and not some backwater dictatorship like China. Because if companies start doing that here, I and the rest of the majority of NA gamers can just move to a game which doesn't limit our freedom due to evolutionary rejects. See how long those limited play games last here. Actually, that's a good thing, as I don't really see us in the NA/EU really missing 1000 asian grinders.

By the way, go to Nevada and try to force casinos to limit playtime for their customers. You'll have the same appropriate result others did when they tried: laughed out of the fuckin' court room.

 

You guys want warnings on games, that's fine.

WARNING: ONLINE GAMES MAY BE ADDICTIVE. BY PLAYING YOU HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY MISHAP

RESULTING FROM YOUR OWN INABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR GAMING HABITS ARE YOUR SOLE RESPONSIBILITY

AND WE WILL NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN ANY WAY FOR YOUR LACK OF SELF - CONTROL AND/OR LACK OF GOOD JUDGEMENT. PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK.

People who have lost limbs or the use of their legs can still lead an active lifestyle. They are not dependant on video games. Ever heard of the specialolympics? What percentage of gamers are that badly disabled that the only thing they can do is play video games? Would they be a viable marke on their ownt? I mean the USA is a proud free enterprise system.

China is a backwater? Grinders are all asian? There are only 1000? I don't think so.

We have the Freedom to do what we want? No limits? No laws? 

I don't throw my money away on the hope of making making myself a big shot. I play MMORPG's ;D.

Excellent warning Wisebutcruel. Why would that be out of place in the current EULA's? Nobody reads them anyway, and the company can cover their ass. Legally.

"If some people got their rights, they would complain of being deprived of their wrongs." - OLIVER HERFORD

Borat.

If there had not been so many well thought out links I would have said this was a Troll thread.

What’s wrong with you guys society needs to hold our hand, we need our school qualifications given to us, a job handed to us on a plate and all of life’s woes comforted by the bosom of society. We are not destined to make our own decisions; that’s why we are not responsible for anything we do.

We all want to be identical freaks, contributing nothing, but assured of the supreme importance of our own individuality. We are responsible for nothing but deserving of everything.

Welcome to our brave new world.

Nobody cares if some idiot stays on the internet to long and dies.

However, I think there's a legitimate reason for putting in breaks on accounts on Pay to Play games. It can stop botting, gold farming, and sharing accounts.

Originally posted by nothing2gein

Because people are responsible for themselves. Not the game company, not the government.

Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying surfaces, I disagree more and more.

It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.

I hope this gets pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by nothing2gein

Because people are responsible for themselves. Not the game company, not the government.

 

Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying, I disagree more and more.

It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.

I hope this get pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.

 No sorry i can't disagree with you more. Thousands of people die everyday. Some from war, Some from plague, famine, suicide, cancer from smoking. heart attacks from poor eating habits etc etc etc. Death is a universal constant. You might not like it but its true. Do you hold the car makers accountable for every driver that dies in a accident from speeding or drinking and driving? Do you hold the gun makers responsible every time someone takes their own life with a gun? People do need to be responible for their own actions. Once you take away that accountablituy from ones own actions you trivialize humanity from living thinking beings with choices and consequences to mere objects controlled by their enviroment.
 

  Yes that poor axe murderer may have killed several innocent people, but it wasn't his fault! The axe company made the axe too sharp he had to kill people with it!

  Where does the placing blame on others stop? Its just always so much easier to place blame on others then to owe up and accept that perhaps we who actually do the actions are actually the ones at fault.

  While we are at placing the blame on others who actually then is to blame? The game designers for making a good game people want to play? The parent who use the computers, and consul games as baby sitters because they are too busy to watch little junior? maybe its the schools for putting so much stress on little junior that he feels the need to want to escape into games anyway? maybe its the parent job that is at fault for placing demands on the parents that keep them from being able to properly watch their childern? No no it must be society as a whole then as its the need for money that drives the parent to work to provide for little junior, that in turn takes the parent away from being able to properly supervis him 24 hours a day!

   The blame game is as easy to play as it is stupid

I honestly think its a bad topic to begin with...

But, these "sudden" deaths tell more about the person then the game.

Originally posted by Waterlily

It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.

There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.

If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:

1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.

There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.

Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by nothing2gein

Because people are responsible for themselves. Not the game company, not the government.

 

Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying surfaces, I disagree more and more.

It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.

I hope this gets pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.

People die from addiction all the time both legal and illegal.  If they are not willing to accept assistance than so be it.  nothing2gein is right, people are responsible for themselves and the only thing that I would expect a supplier to do is include a disclaimer.  Beyond that, they should not be held accountable for a person's stupidity.  Just look at smoking, people know that it causes cancer but yet they pay $7-$10 a pack because they don't want to quit.

Underage death is a completely difference scenario. The new generation of parents are all "too busy" to attend to their child so instead plop them down in front of a TV or PC to keep them out of their hair. I believe that there should be a birth limiter installed in everyone at birth and if you are unable to pass an aptitude and financial test then no children for you.

Skipping posts after the OP and just say there are some mmo's that do give a warning to players to take a break. Overall parents are responsible for the children under 18, and over 18+ well your responsible for yourself. If your dumb enough to watse your life at a computer screen all day and week then your an idiot no lifer than deserves what happens, I hate to be blunt but it's the truth and it sometimes hurts to hear it so.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Waterlily

It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.

There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.

If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:

1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.

There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.

Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?

You cannot compare completely different scenarios, make analogies which suit your argument and make conclusions out of them.

There is no denying that these games are very addictive and that when they come into the hands of people who cannot control their playtime, eating and sleeping habits, that the game is influencing them so much that the game is directly related to, and was a contibuter to, their death.

That makes the game companies responsible. Whether these people would still be alive if they were not introduced to those game is a question that needs to be asked.

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Waterlily

It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.

There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.

If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:

1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.

There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.

Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?

You cannot compare completely different scenarios, make analogies which suit your argument and make conclusions out of them.

There is no denying that these games are very addictive and that when they come into the hands of people who cannot control their playtime, eating and sleeping habits, that the game is influencing them so much that the game is directly related to, and was a contibuter to, their death.

That makes the game companies responsible. Whether these people would still be alive if they were not introduced to those game is a question that needs to be asked.

Again, you cannot hold a company responsible for a person's shortcomings. You don't see Jack Daniels assuming responsibility for alcoholism and you don't see Phillip Morris assuming responsibility for cancer related death. Why? Because people are aware of the potential risks of negligence and abuse.

Originally posted by Waterlily

There is no denying that these games are very addictive and that when they come into the hands of people who cannot control their playtime, eating and sleeping habbits, that the game is influencing them so much that the game is directly related to, and was a contibuter to, their death.

That makes the game companies responsible. Whether these people would still be alive if they were not introduced to those game is a question that needs to be asked.

Self-harming with an MMO is no different than self-harming with a knife.

This is because MMO gaming is not addictive, but can be the focus of compulsion.

That difference is important; in the hands of a non-compulsive personality an MMO is not a harmful product. I can play one, or stop playing one for extended periods and suffer no ill effects from either choice.

A compulsive personality isn't able to do that. They're bound by their obsessions and are unable to break away from them. This is directly comparable to self-harming by cutting .. not addictive, but compulsive.

That's not to say that these people don't need help; they clearly do .. but it's psychological help that they need to resolve their compulsions. They will not be swayed by a warning label, though I imagine that every EULA will soon include one purely on the basis that it covers the developers from any frivolous lawsuits.

Personal responsibility is clearly axiomatic. We have to be responsible for our actions. That applies to the guy playing the MMO until he harms himself.

It also applies to the people who built the game in the first place.

The company that built the game is populated by people. They are responsible for their actions. They built something that somebody killed themselves with. They should be taking a hard look at the product that they built and figure out how it can be made safer. That is THEIR responsibility.

The man who harms himself playing a game has to take a hard look at what he's doing with his life. That's HIS responsibility.

This is not a case of either/or. It requires both sides to take a hard look at what's going on.

It's called natural selection. Those dumb enough to play games till they die are stupid, and nature is simply taking its natural course of wiping their gene pool out of the human genome.

In the recent Editors article he mentions the Care Bears as an 80’s cartoon that could be turned into a MMO. I really think some of you need to go their, the harsh unreality of a pixelated death is not for you.

I thrive on competition and adversity. Without that we would be a lame species, a world of cosseted bores. I realise this does not appeal to some sections of our society, that’s fine, just don’t try to force your view on me.

Originally posted by dippyzippy

archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/industry/04/05/everquest.suicide.idg/index.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Woolley

www.destructoid.com/man-in-china-dies-after-three-day-mmo-session-44916.phtml

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4137782.stm (Starcraft)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544131/Man-dies-after-7-day-computer-game-session.html

http://www.thelocal.se/15742.html

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29681926/

kotaku.com/gaming/crime/baby-dies-as-parents-play-wow-108377.php

news.softpedia.com/news/Two-Fanatic-World-of-Warctaft-Gamers-Have-Died-Becouse-Of-WoW-11821.shtml

how long will it be before 5-hour breaks become the norm throughout the world not just China-->news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4183340.stm

Why aren't there more warnings in and out of game to take breaks?

Why has no-one been held accountable or sued?

Is it because most of them are Asian and no-one cares? Is it because no-one wants to believe that a game can take over someone's live so much that only someone with "no self-control" will die?

Why aren't more people asking questions like me?!

 

 I'd hazzard because most people believe they should be held accountable for their own choices, instead of placing the blame on others? 

  Let me guess your a American? "Sue them its not my fault! free money! They made a good game that people want to play longer then 4-5 hours those bastards! Sue! Sue! Oh and free money! Its their fault I can't stop playing, I have no choice, they are forcing me to play for days on end, i have no free will !!!!!" 

  In the end unfortunately commeon sense really isn't very common any more, Coffee cups need to be labled Hot. Guess games need warning lables for those who can't grasp that maybe playing longer then 8-12 at a time might not be good for you? Ah well there goes the bloody gene pool to hell.

   What next maybe we can lable cars with warning that driving too fast might be dangerous hell tons more people get killed yearly form driving too fast. But why stop there? Lets remove free choice altogher, make cars so they can go no faster then 40 mph, have computers shutdown and lock out after 2 hours of use in a 24 hour period. (After all theres more people dieing from being overworked then from gaming so best deal with the whole problem of computers altogher right?)