I dont think there should even be an argument about this semantic nonsense, can't we just leave that aside and discuss the issues that really matter? Like how much enjoyment are we getting out of f2p games when they're free and how much enjoyment are we getting when we pay 14.95US in itemmall purchases a month?  Are the levels of enjoyment competative? If I decided to go crazy and spend 45 dollars a month on itemmall purchases how much is my enjoyment of the game going to grow? Will it be 3X or just slightly? OR will it be more? 

Originally posted by Wizardry

Well i can tend to agree with most of the content that the writers here put out,i can't agree this time.

F2P has one VERY large black mark and that is allowing RMT to flourish untouched because they can make limitless accounts.Also it seems that F2P = low budget operation so you will also get low budget anti cheat as we all know of as "GAME GUARD".A totally useless pile of trash and EVERYONE knows it does NOT work,so why do these F2P developers keep using it?because they are low budget,and the game is always low budget as well.

Many would argue GW is good,i would agree for a single player,instance game it is alright,but it should not be i nthe MMO genre and it is not quite free as you have to buy the game and expansions.

Back to the F2P scheme of things,i ask myself why would a game allow thousands/millions of freebie users to utilize their bandwidth?All these RMT botters do not support the game,so the game gets no money from these RMT's.Well i know it sounds skeptic but i believe they have their hands tied into the RMT,i am not sure how involved but they are most definitely get some kinfd of kick back or are directly running these operations themselves,outside of the main operation of course.This allows them to make real life money that is not taxed under any government and is put directly into their pockets.This way they can actually claim their operation as a loss of profit and sit on the beach in Maui,sipping Pina Coladas.

There is yet another problem that botting creates,besides ruining the game economy,it allows players to vault above all others while not even at their PC.This is huge if the game involves open PVP or there is strict competition for elite high level bosses.The solution of charging for subscriptions is a start ,but the developer still has to free the game of any botting and use a working anti-cheat and so far i have not see na F2P utilize any of it.Even worse the RMT botters using illegal software link 3/4/5/6/7 players together,so they can follow each other around the game and heal and wipe anything in their path.

Guild Wars is not a MMO, it is a Cooperative Online RPG, it merely ended up being considered one because of its unique genre. Guild Wars 2, however, will be.

I am still seeing a lot of lack of understanding of what Free to Play means....

Free to play means that you do not HAVE to pay, in order to play. It doesnt guarantee that the experience will be the same for both paying and non paying customers.

Let me give an example, yahoo mail. They offer free email, and many people use it... but they also offer yahoo mail plus. This offers more storage and many additional options. People who pay more get more. That doesnt make their normal service any less free.

So, now that this is clear, lets look at some free to play games:

FreeRealms

This is a NEW F2P game... with a monthly fee.

FusionFall

This is another New F2P game... with a monthly fee.

These are clear examples that free does not mean an item mall (it means no charges). They clearly market the game as free, but are based on monthly fees.

Next we can compare this to a classic P2P game... that has a F2P option:

Eve Online

This game does not require any payment upfront. This game sells monthly game cards for in game money. This combination allows players to play without ever paying a dime.

Then we have games like EQ and EQ2...

Both of these charge for the game, and charge a monthly fee, and have an item mall. They are clearly pay to play.

So, it is clear that there are many state of the art, innovative games that are free to play, and that there are also old and not so state of the art pay to play games.... so making generalizations does not help anyone.

Originally posted by EricDanie

Guild Wars is not a MMO, it is a Cooperative Online RPG, it merely ended up being considered one because of its unique genre. Guild Wars 2, however, will be.

You mean its not an MMORPG. MMO is a blanket designation for games that are massive, multiplayer, and online. There is MMORPG, MMOFPS, MMORTS, MMOCOG (Guild Wars), and probably a dozen more I can't think of right now.

Originally posted by Player_420

I want to first say I really thought that column was horribly written.

You are a hypocrite sir, you flamed on people who don't like f2p games just because they don't like them, and offered no context as to why they don't like the games.

I'm sorry Richard, but a game where you download, play for free, but NEED to pay to catch up with the rest of the community via items malls...well sir that's NOT a f2p game, its a rip off of deep, complex MMO's.

They are encouraging charging you for an inferior product, yet they label it as f2p.

these f2p games offer very little depth compared to all p2p games, yet the f2p games still make encourage you to spend money of either vanity items, XP boosts ect.

So MR. Richard, give me one "f2p" title that doesnt involve item malls or linear gameplay. Come on I dare ya.

Edit: And dont even start with your articles argument on how "I havent played many f2p games"

I assure you I have played literally just about all of em granted Hello Kitty Online and Freaky Creatures.

1) Your twenty years old and claiming to have played, Quote," I have played EVERY MMO " and you want us to belive you? -' yer sure mate, what ever you say "

2) Oh and a F2P without an item shop, that isn't linear, hmm let me think, how about," Shadowbane " it's F2P, pretty sure it has no itemshop and isn't linear, but you can tell us all, since your playing it.

Originally posted by phantium

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by phantium

Originally posted by Dana

Originally posted by phantium

This is by far the worst written article on MMORPG I have seen over all the years I have been a member for. :(

 

Disagreeing with someone's topic doesn't make it poorly written. If you have any technical complaints about the writing, feel free to send them over. From a purely written point of view, I don't see what you have to complain about.

This is true, but I believe it's quite obvious that writing Diry instead of Dirty and then writing a sentence like this.

  Many people "free to play" is a dirty word.

Which says enough for me, it's poorly written english. Please.. read it and patch it up. :)
I am just giving my opinion, plain and simple.

source: http://www.mmorpg.com/newsRoom.cfm/read/13712/utm_campaign/MMORPG%20News%20Alert%20Email/utm_source/MMORPG/utm_medium/email

Oh the news item, that is far from his fault. I must have rushed through it, both typos were exclusively mine. Neither of those typos appear in the actual article, apologies.

 

Sorry, I was actually talking about you. I think I should have included my source right away.
And still you have one more mistake in your post.

> To many people "free to play" is a dirty word.

To many people believe "free to play" is a dirty word.

...

As for the guy responding with,  "they suck" I personally think he needs to have a sock put into his mouth, either give valueable input to the matter or do not say anything at all. Not all of the F2P games suck actually, nor do all of them have bad spelling in them. There are definitely quality F2P games out there.

 

Not to continue the writing debate, but my original sentence that you are pointing out is perfectly fine, although you could make an argument for a comma after people, I suppose. Your sentence would work if it was "too," but doesn't make sense as written.

Anyway, yes, I admit my news item was rushed and had some typos, both of which are now fixed. I sincerely appreciate you pointing them out. Annoying when I make them, but they need to be caught. We spend time proof reading the articles, but no one proof reads the news item stubs pointing to the articles. I'll pay closer attention in the future.

But this has nothing to do with Richard, his article or the points he made. So citing my inability to write a sentence before my first coffee isn't a valid counter argument to what he wrote.

I played Guild Wars and personally consider it a MMO. I also consider it a "F2P" game, although you do have to initially spring for the box. The reason I consider it F2P is because other MMOs require a monthly fee to continue playing, while GW does not. In the truest sense of the phrase, it is NOT a F2P. But in the spirit of the MMO genre, it is.

I've played 2Moons, Archlord, Shaiya, and Perfect World (stopped there). Hated 2Moons and Shaiya, but liked Archlord and Perfect World. The problem with those two games though, was that after level40, you understand why it was a F2P game.

I got up to around 45 on both, then hit a wall. The Archlord wall wasn't nearly as bad, but the Perfect World wall was insane. To keep leveling at a "normal" rate, you had to buy healing/mana glyphs and they would run out in a day or two, or on good days.. a few hours. I never actually bought them from the cash shop, as other people used to buy them then sell them for in-game gold. I bought 4 and after that, I stopped playing. Why? The players were charging too much game gold for me to farm daily.

Although you can keep playing for free, you simply cannot keep up a progressive rate of exp without farming. The quests after a certain level are mainly repeatables, that you burn out on. Imagine WoW's TBC dailies, but at level 35 you start and then that's the bulk of your daily questing. This is because on design, they didn't have enough money to put in tons of quests, so the content suffered. There is usually never an expansion (least when I played) so the content is always stale.

If I had to play any F2P game that meets the criteria of what one is, I'd probably play Archlord again. Just about everything you needed to level was free; tons of excellent armor, socket gems, and other items dropped very regularly and I never got close to buying anything. You can sell the items in there and actually MAKE very good gold, enabling you to buy anything you would need from the Auction House. Not once did I feel the game was too hard that I had to spend real money.

Where Archlord fell down, was lack of content as you moved up, which is the F2P curse. Same few zones, same mobs. That part got boring and the exp bar crept WAY out after awhile. Just too much grinding. I'd never go near Perfect World; it's the classic bait/switch (unless you were a Werefox perhaps).

Originally posted by jimbo833

back on topic..

i like f2p, yes most of them are poor quality but you noly wasted some time playing no money.

 

and i still have not found a p2p game to get my attention. and i bought WAR for £35 and only played for 20 hours max :S

 

the truth is F2P suit's my life style  (my current MMO of choice is RF:online) i  only play now and again due to work / college and i don't feel scammed out of money (which i would if i played a F2P)

 

For the unlucky few, time is more valuable than a $15 monthly sub.

To enjoy F2P, you need to find the one.  The OP in his 2 articles have clearly told us he spent time going thru the many F2Ps in the market.  Problem is, it takes a bit of downloading and configuration to set up a new game, and most likely than not, you will be uninstalling it soon.  It is not unknown that some F2Ps uninstallers leave behind something in your harddisk.  That is an added unpleasant feature of F2Ps.  You have to know what your are installing, and how to remove them all.

It is also noted that many games simply make it unplayable after some levels if you choose not to pay.  While paying is not a bad or unethical thing in itself, uncertainly as to how much I need to pay to maintain gamability, is a less than desirable features.  In WoW, say, its $15, period.  That is simple mathematics, for a consumer.  Whether I play 24/7, or an hour a week, is my choice.

Multiple expansions is another issue I hate.  EQ killed itself with endless boxes.  A major expansion every 2 years is good, and $50 every 2 years, with really good content, is justified.  But $50 every half a year?  Come on.  EQ really alienates me with both sub and endless new boxes.  GWs, with its many boxes, is not appealing either.  Even tho its free to play, the box sets ends up just as costly.

free to play games HAVE to be inferior to Pay to pay games. Pay to play games have more money to make a game, and don't have to try to find ways to make the player spend money in the cash shop.

However, I have one exception, that is Air Rivals/ACE online, a game which is an incredibly unique skill based mmo, and, other than competitive guild wars, has the most player skill required in combat (atleast until jumpgae evolution comes out). Of course there is a large amount of grind here though.

Atlantica and a small handful of others also fall into the category of "f2p that has features no p2p has" but I don't think any of them have the draw of Air rivals (epicly large wars and skill based combat).

However, all the other f2p's suck, they are all the same game with new mobs and a different char creator. They are horrible, and revolve around players attacking monsters that get progressively more impossible to kill, until they are completely impossible without buying from the cash shop. Once you do, you can level more, go to new areas, and level again! wHOOOO!11!!!1

Originally posted by rageagainst

free to play games HAVE to be inferior to Pay to pay games. Pay to play games have more money to make a game, and don't have to try to find ways to make the player spend money in the cash shop.

That's the biggest line of bullshit I've read in a long time. Where exactly do you get your information?

Originally posted by Quizzical

Nice strawman argument there.  It might help if the author were to address the actual argument of why the "free to lose"/item mall games get such negative reactions from so many players.

If you get an e-mail from someone claiming to have $10 million US in Sierra Leone and wanting your help to get it out of the country and promising you a substantial portion of it, do you have to follow through to know it's a scam? If you follow through on a few such e-mails and get scammed, do you then know that the next such spam e-mail you get is also a scam, or do you have to try that one, too?

The reason why a game being completely free gives it such a bad reputation is simple economic reality.  Companies that make games in pursuit of a profit aren't charities that merely want to give you a good game to play.  They're trying to make money, and they have to get money from you somehow.  The question is how they get money from you, and it's best if their source of revenue is obvious.

For a subscription game, they get substantial revenue from everyone who plays, so they have no need to nickel and dime you for additional revenue.  (That may not stop SOE from doing so, but I digress.)  If you have to buy a box before you can play the game, as with most single-player games, then again, the revenue source is obvious, and there's no need to worry that they'll try to impose additional charges on you later.

There can even be some genuinely free games where the "revenue" source is still obvious.  A flash game that some geek coded by himself in his free time doesn't have enormous expenses to meet, and a bit of advertising on the site with the game, or even having the game distributed for free by other sites, could well meet the game's expenses.  Some games are themselves advertisements, most commonly cheaply done things on a corporate web site where the premise of the game is that the corporations products are really wonderful.  Occasionally there can even be larger budget such advertising games, such as America's Army, which was basically an advertisement for the United States Armed Forces.  NASA is apparently working on such a game, too.

But when one gets to a game that advertises itself as free to play, but clearly cost quite a lot of money to develop, one has to be quite naive to think that the company isn't going to try very hard to get revenue out of you somehow.  If they say that their revenue source is an item mall, but you don't have to actually buy anything from it, alarm bells should go off that they're probably at best being intentionally deceptive.  If buying items from an item mall doesn't give any gameplay advantage, most players won't, and the company will get virtually no revenue.  A company can't allow that, and will have to give large gameplay advantages for buying things from the item mall.

And the economic situation is worse than that when one considers who is playing those games.  The author says that millions of people in "this region" play various "free to lose"/item mall games.  I'm not entirely sure what "this region" means, but even if it means the United States only, I find the claim quite believable.  Many of the people who play those games do so because they can't afford to play anything else.  Perhaps they are kids who can't afford $15/month for a game subscription, or whose parents won't allow them to use a credit card online.  If the reason they're playing an item mall game is that they can't pay a subscription, then they won't be able to buy anything from the item mall, either.  A company making a "free to lose"/item mall game thus gets no revenue from a large fraction of its players.

The company thus needs to get a lot of revenue to pay for the game, and needs to get it from a relatively small fraction of the playerbase.  The company thus usually needs to get quite a lot of revenue from the relative handful of players who do pay.  The only way to do that is to make it so that further payments give further gameplay advantages up to a pretty high threshold--much higher than the $15/month of a typical subscription game.  That means that either the "free to play" game is actually quite expensive, and far more so than a normal subscription game, or else that it's "free to lose" as I've been repeatedly saying here, as you'll be at a big gameplay disadvantage as compared to those who do pay a lot of money.

Indeed, economic reality dictates that if a "free to play"/item mall game has an item mall that doesn't really unbalance anything and doesn't get the company much revenue, they'll probably have to make the item mall more unbalancing in order to get more revenue in the future.  Losing money in the first few months after launch while attracting players, only to try to make it up later with a more unbalancing item mall, is quite a plausible business strategy, and indeed, has been done on quite a number of occasions.

Could there be exceptions?  While there could, if a company were making its marketing strategy one of telling players, we're not like those other "free to lose"/item mall games, and you can't gain any further gameplay advantage beyond $X/month, why wouldn't they display that prominently?  A lot of the item mall games won't even tell you what's in their item mall until you get into the game, for about the same reasons as the stereotypical drug dealer saying, "Try it.  You'll like it.  The first one is on me."

And so, a challenge to the author:  if you want anyone to believe that there are genuinely free to play item mall games that have considerable development costs, aren't in themselves more an advertisement than a game, and don't really mean "free to lose" unless you buy quite a bit from the item mall, then name one.  Just one.  It should be one that's been out for quite a while, so as to rule out the "lose money at first, but add a lot more to the item mall to make it up later" model.

very well thought out post. i agree with alot of these points you addressed, and thought long and hard about them as they were the same issues that bothered me when finding and playing a F2P MMO. in fact one P2P MMo that turned to F2P MMO under my nose was SOTNW as i already spent $10 for the pre order. go figure. was kind of upset to say the least. but this is what F2P's do. its no different than a P2P except they have a different payment model( which tends to cost more in the long run compared to a Flat rate subscription model MMo)

k first of all u should know y FTP sux, its BECUS they are free!

Haven't u learn that NE product worth having or trying WILL NEVER BE FREE!

they are free BECUS they sux, they don't sux JUST BECUS THEY ARE FREE!

if they did not sux they would not be free!

And its OBVIOUS y f2p have more players, its becus there are MORE POOR PEOPLE in the world (especially china!) than there are people with money to pay for a good game!  

No F2P is not a dirty word.

Technically it is either a dirty concept, or they are three dirty words.

I think 80% of the people here are missing the point.

Free to play means just that.  You don't pay for the game and you don't pay a sub.  You pay nothing unless you choose to pay.  As soon as you start paying it becomes a P2P but that is your choice.  So don't call them scams.  And don't exagerrate saying you have to spend hundreds or thousands. Thats crap too. You can if you want but that choice is yours.

Now tell me, how many people actually play a game to the top levels?  Lots I'm sure but not everyone.  And most of the money you spend is only  to cut down on the amount of grinding time.

So unless you really want to get to the "endgame" and do it as quickly as possible then yes,  you might have to spend a few dollars.

Doesn't that make more sense than paying upfront and finding out you wished you hadn't spent that money??

IMO there is a lot of good gaming to be had absolutely free and I like that.  And if you also like it and want to spend some money to make it better, what is wrong with that??

Anyway it doesn't matter, its all personal taste,  but I really hate the way players these days seem to generalize everything and lump certain types of games under the "that Sucks" category.

Cause that really sucks, people.

---

Originally posted by treelo
Let's face it, the Asian market is nothing like it's NA/EU equivalent. F2P grindfests are released all the time, many don't make it to this part of the world because quite frankly, they're not up to the much higher standards we expect from our games.

---

What makes you think that the Western market has higher standards than the Asian one ? I mean, other than obvious biais. I'd be curious to see a study on this topic. 

---

Originally posted by treelo
Aion is a fairly good representation of this, I wouldn't pay to play an unfinished, bug-ridden game and I don't know many people who would. I understand it is doing just fine over there though.

---

Yeah, it's not like the western market is full of bug-ridden unfinished games :) Oh wait.. isn't it what 90% of users from this site complain about ? :)

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by jimbo833

back on topic..

i like f2p, yes most of them are poor quality but you noly wasted some time playing no money.

 

and i still have not found a p2p game to get my attention. and i bought WAR for £35 and only played for 20 hours max :S

 

the truth is F2P suit's my life style  (my current MMO of choice is RF:online) i  only play now and again due to work / college and i don't feel scammed out of money (which i would if i played a F2P)

 

 

For the unlucky few, time is more valuable than a $15 monthly sub.

To enjoy F2P, you need to find the one.  The OP in his 2 articles have clearly told us he spent time going thru the many F2Ps in the market.  Problem is, it takes a bit of downloading and configuration to set up a new game, and most likely than not, you will be uninstalling it soon.  It is not unknown that some F2Ps uninstallers leave behind something in your harddisk.  That is an added unpleasant feature of F2Ps.  You have to know what your are installing, and how to remove them all.

It is also noted that many games simply make it unplayable after some levels if you choose not to pay.  While paying is not a bad or unethical thing in itself, uncertainly as to how much I need to pay to maintain gamability, is a less than desirable features.  In WoW, say, its $15, period.  That is simple mathematics, for a consumer.  Whether I play 24/7, or an hour a week, is my choice.

Multiple expansions is another issue I hate.  EQ killed itself with endless boxes.  A major expansion every 2 years is good, and $50 every 2 years, with really good content, is justified.  But $50 every half a year?  Come on.  EQ really alienates me with both sub and endless new boxes.  GWs, with its many boxes, is not appealing either.  Even tho its free to play, the box sets ends up just as costly.

i gotta disagree with u on the timing of expansions. although I work I have enough time to almost all the expansion content whether its on my free time, with my family that plays with me, or when i want to just relax, and guild chat or talk on global. for me I cant stand waiting 2 years bouncing around on the same content for 2years, that what pissed me off and bores me to death with WOW, not enough content, yeah granted there is little mini content patches, e.g. 3.1 uldaur, but by themselves they aren't much.

for me EQ2 did it good, i loved the content, every 6 months I pay $30-40 every 6 months. but i did it smart id buy the entire package that came with it if i could, you gotta figure initially theyd have e.g ROK Rise of kunark by itself, but I eventually bought the entire set, why? cause I had the original Discs, EOF, and ROK, and then i said fugg it, might as well upgrade, so next time i install its faster on DVD's, and think about it, you update faster, and its an easier process to patch. Your never paying more than $40 for everything. Never had pay more than $40 for entire package+ expansions. only when I initially bought the game did I spend $50+

I been playing for over 1460+ days since nov 2004 off and on.I have every expansion and almost every adventure pack e.g. split paw saga, blood chronicles etc, minus TSO (the shadow oddessey) broke for now lol bills and rent come first. :P but anyhoo, i can understand your perspective on overkill on  content, but for me i dont agree, for me its a god send, im never really doing the same thing twice, im always progressing, leveling, getting new epic gear, defeating new raid bosses, going to new lands. I find it fun, engaging. this is why I always go back to EQ2. you'll never get this level of content in any F2P MMO. but thats just me.

List of good f2p games:

runescape

UO private server

That is it.

Which is sad cause their not good games at all.

We won't mention companies such as IGG, Aeria Games and the like. Their a joke. Their games based on an item mall and built from that You'd have to be really poor or really stupid to want anything to do with them.

List of P2P games not neccisarily good ones but the best f2p games is crappier than the worst p2p games

WAR

WoW

AoC

And then we got the ex p2p games which are basicly a better version of f2p but later on have an item shop introduced because it wasn't quite up to scratch to regular p2p

Perfect World

ROSE online

All of these games i'd stay away from and as you can see the list of P2P games are although not good games make for alot longer lasting and more popular experience. Going f2p for awhile and then going back to p2p gives you a new apreciation on p2p gaming.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Player_420

I never said they wernt MMO's, of course thats your only argument? That I said something I in fact did not?

NAME A F2P TITLE, I DARE YOU, WITHOUT ITEM MALLS, AND WITH DEPTH - EDIT: Excuse me....INNOVATION

remember bloodworth you have to NAME one...no atlantica doesnt count cause thats pure item mall

 

When you get older, you will realize that nothing in life is free and these things won't be such an ire-inducing issue for you.

 

Lol ... was about to post same as LynxJSA. And most important, f2p are actually not f2p. This is (not by mistake!) misleading .... there is ALLWAYS price to be payed. I.e. when playing "free" Rappelz at the end of the month I have spent 2 times as I would for any MMORPG out there that have subscription. Yes, yes, .... you do not need actually to buy ingame items ... but usually is like purchasing a car and then manually pushing it on streets.

 

First of all,Let me qualify this post by saying I have played many games on both sides of this discussion, both F2P & P2P.  I thought his article was very well written.  He was flaming no one, just stating an opinion and telling people to not sell F2P short before giving each F2P game at least a look.

  I think it was an unbiased report that hopes to open minds on both sides of the discussion. There are F2P players  out there who won't even consider touching a P2P game and vice versus, no matter what.  You kow what? there are going  to be flamers on both sides of this issue,no matter what.   Persoanlly I agreeed with everything he said.

  I have played Guild wars,WOW Tabula Rasa,EQ & EQII,Warhammer Online as well a  many other P2P games and they each have a lot to offer in their own rights.  On the other hand I have played many great F2P games as well  Shot Online,Albatross18,Cabal Online,Rappelz,RF Online,Requiem,Perfect World, PristonTale I & II, 12skys & 9dragons(both of which suck IMO),and the list goes on & on.  Many now are using the "Item Mall" style of earning revenue.  I will be the first to tell you from 1st hand experience that some use this feature very poorly,meaning that in some you cannot compete with those making "Item Mall"  purchases or you cannot really progress effectively without making those purchases.  What I mean to say is in some F2P games you are "forced" to make  purchases in a subliminal way if you want to even really enjoy the game. 

  All I am saying is there are pros & cons to both sides of this issue, and as he stated in his report,don;t sell either short without at least trying them, and if someone chooses one over the other doesn't mean they "suck".  Let each of us have our own opinion  and respect it.

montee

Originally posted by Player_420

I never said they wernt MMO's, of course thats your only argument? That I said something I in fact did not?

NAME A F2P TITLE, I DARE YOU, WITHOUT ITEM MALLS, AND WITH DEPTH - EDIT: Excuse me....INNOVATION

remember bloodworth you have to NAME one...no atlantica doesnt count cause thats pure item mall

Planeshift is F2P and has no item mall.  However the catch is content updates are about once a year if that..

F2P means you are allowed to play the game at no charge.  It is your choosing if you want to buy items from the mall.  it is not required of anyone to buy from the mall.  Mostly people who enjoy the game enough, want an edge up, or are impatient buy from the item malls.

Originally posted by Caskio

Originally posted by Player_420

I never said they wernt MMO's, of course thats your only argument? That I said something I in fact did not?

NAME A F2P TITLE, I DARE YOU, WITHOUT ITEM MALLS, AND WITH DEPTH - EDIT: Excuse me....INNOVATION

remember bloodworth you have to NAME one...no atlantica doesnt count cause thats pure item mall

 

Planeshift is F2P and has no item mall.  However the catch is content updates are about once a year if that..

 

F2P means you are allowed to play the game at no charge.  It is your choosing if you want to buy items from the mall.  it is not required of anyone to buy from the mall.  Mostly people who enjoy the game enough, want an edge up, or are impatient buy from the item malls.

Planeshift is more an open source project than a commercial game.

F2P is a dirty word...

An F2P game may be decent or even good to some people, but the marketing system is absolutely horrible, always. Even if the game may be good the payment method completely ruins it.

F2P games are NOT free if you want some sort of enjoyable playing experience. Most of them are designed so that you basically need to pay to play on somewhat even conditions with other players. If you don't pay up you will be left behind and won't be able to fight anyone in an even match.

And when you've finally had enough and decide to pay to be able to compete, you find yourself paying much more than you would have if the game had a subsciption. Once you've started paying for it it will suck money from you.

And all the while the games future will be more than uncertain, since there won't be a steady income for the game and content expansions may never come.

Things that for me, make F2P a curse word:

- games that claim to be free, but actually attempt to change you money for even the most basic gameplay elements. One F2P game i tried actually expected you to go through the game with a 12 slot inventory (or pay for more bags). I did some rough calculations and i figure if id buy the same amount of bag, as i had in Wow (from my 4 slot bags, to 16, 18, 24 + the bags i keep in the bank), i would have spent the same amount of money that it took to buy WoW and both of its expansions.

- people who think that just cause its free, they can abuse it. In P2P games, if your caugth cheating your have to spend money to get new account. In F2P you dont, so that seems like a good excuse for alot of people to cheat/abuse/harass.

In addition i have yet to find a F2P game that suits me. Most of them offer no structure. What i mean by that is in most F2P's i personally get lost at some point. In most of the P2P's i have tried i have found the game directs me in the right way. In wow for example, its quite clear, that once you ave finished in Mulgore, you go quest in Barrens or when your finished with UBRS, you can try MC and after that you can go to BWL (lol so old reference).

Originally posted by artacq

Things that for me, make F2P a curse word:

 

- games that claim to be free, but actually attempt to change you money for even the most basic gameplay elements. One F2P game i tried actually expected you to go through the game with a 12 slot inventory (or pay for more bags). I did some rough calculations and i figure if id buy the same amount of bag, as i had in Wow (from my 4 slot bags, to 16, 18, 24 + the bags i keep in the bank), i would have spent the same amount of money that it took to buy WoW and both of its expansions.

- people who think that just cause its free, they can abuse it. In P2P games, if your caugth cheating your have to spend money to get new account. In F2P you dont, so that seems like a good excuse for alot of people to cheat/abuse/harass.

 

In addition i have yet to find a F2P game that suits me. Most of them offer no structure. What i mean by that is in most F2P's i personally get lost at some point. In most of the P2P's i have tried i have found the game directs me in the right way. In wow for example, its quite clear, that once you ave finished in Mulgore, you go quest in Barrens or when your finished with UBRS, you can try MC and after that you can go to BWL (lol so old reference).

Those are big issues for many. Basically, you get what you pay for.

F2P is really not such a bad model imo. Although not a MMPORG or any form thereof KUMA\War was one of the first F2P games I ever played that was fantastic for an FPS style game. There is ingame advertising and alot of advertising on the site, however there is no such thing as an item mall (for those of you screaming show one F2P game that doesnt have a mall). 

Now I myself prefer the sub games myself, because I feel all people have a more even playing field, and after playing many of the different F2P games currently on the market I still feel they have much to offer, they just arent for me. I do admit however that I do occasionaly indulge in the F2P games merely for the difference. One thing I have realised is that many of the companies that offer these varieties actually stay on top of mechanics and listen to the customer base and truly attempt to make the game cleaner. What I mean by that is; many games I play spend months upon months with broken mechanics, bugs and all to often a mailbox full of spam mail from gold sellers. The producers of F2P's seem to be more consistent with bug fixes and making certain that their game plays cleaner and with less issues than the typical Sub based games. Also its nice that I am not IG and recieving tells or mail every 10 -20 minutes about "Huge sale! Buy gold for---------" in F2P games we dont have to deal with that. The other thing I will say is this; I have personally had this debate with several of my peers whom also look upon the F2P model with disdain. They also support the Gold sellers in nearly every MMO they play. So I ask; why is it so different to buy digital gold , platinum or whatever for Your games than buying items from an item mall. either way your paying to gain an advantage over others. The difference is , you wont get banned in an F2P game for buying, where in a sub based game you take a chance every time you do buy. How much do you really like those characters you worked so hard to build. Are you seriously ready to start over again?