Greetings fellow gamers !

I have been playing MMOs for more than 7 yrs now, and in search for a new game after the failure of both Age of Conan and Warhammer Online I decided to go back in history and try out Lineage 2.

The game is around 5 yrs old and has a very nice selection of classes and subclasses which many new releases could learn a lot from, but besides that it is truely a sad story. I will not bother to complain further about the poor visual customization and the horrific click to move technology( no jumping, getting stuck on rocks, corners, etc - you don't feel like you are in real control of your character), the awful user interface, and other pretty obvious faults.

My main concern is that the game is just infested with bots, cheaters and has the worst gaming community I have ever encounted, and both the GMs and the community seem to have no will or power to change this.

The main reasons you should avoid this game is:

1) Because of all the bots the economy is so inflated that legit players will have to grind for years to come to get the money needed for top grade gear. Besides that, teaming is of very little value in this game, as most who know what they are doing team with themself dual or triple boxed with support classes.

2) If you for some reason live a very strange life and decided to try out this grind-fest you would be encounting bots all over, people who don't know the basic concepts of MMOs, so bad players that they wouldn't get invited to a pug in most good games.

3) If you for some reason even after discovering all this decided to still stick to the game you would be even more frustrated as you report the same bots for several days to the gms, you train them to death 50+ times, and they are still there.

4) Some of you might think that this could be fun since the game is based on an open PvP engine, but that is also so false. I can't believe you find any more that you willing to run around killing the bots and the other retards you encounter in a systematic way, because their defense is simple: They don't attack back. If they don't attack back you turn red if you kill them, and you risk dropping you equipment ( both equiped and from inventory) on death. In many cases the bots have so called bot-protectors which monitor if any flagged red enter the area, and then come with a high lvl to kill the flagged character.

So, as a conclusion, stay far away from this game. Don't give those shitty developers and GMs who don't care about the community any financial support.

Cheers,

Vikingen

Paladin on the Teon Server.

 Nothing new, thats why the game got such bad reviews from a lot of people on release. The game itself isnt too bad though and If it had actually realeased with half teh content it has now , it may have done better in N/A.

I don't know why I'm asking this, since I really don't care. But I just can't resist: Why make an account here just to randomly shit on this game? It's not like it's having some major revival at the moment. It is having a 'welcome back' period, but everyone who's eleigable has already played it and knows about what you're warning of.

Personally, I want to like this game for two reasons; I like the art aesthetic and there's something about the grinding I occasionally find addictive in short bursts. But inane design and an excessively steep exp curve keep me from playing it much.

You're half right about the PVP. The PVP is actually very good, if you play it the way it is intended and it definitely wasn't intended to be a kill anyone, anywhere, anytime for any reason type game. So if that's what you're looking for, don't bother.

Anyway, I've gone on long enough about something I don't care about. :)

Originally posted by Norzeman

 

The main reasons you should avoid this game is:

1) Because of all the bots the economy is so inflated that legit players will have to grind for years to come to get the money needed for top grade gear. Besides that, teaming is of very little value in this game, as most who know what they are doing team with themself dual or triple boxed with support classes.

Almost all gear up to C has extremely affordable equivalents. The only restrictions on cheap gear are that it cant be enhanced and cant be mashed down to crystals. They have also greatly increased the item drops such that a persom can get into a decent set of gear for their level inside of an hour of fighting mobs.

2) If you for some reason live a very strange life and decided to try out this grind-fest you would be encounting bots all over, people who don't know the basic concepts of MMOs, so bad players that they wouldn't get invited to a pug in most good games.

How does this differ from 1? But, seriously, have you run into a situation in the current state of the game where the bots hindered your play, or is this a "when I see bots I see red" thing?

 

3) If you for some reason even after discovering all this decided to still stick to the game you would be even more frustrated as you report the same bots for several days to the gms, you train them to death 50+ times, and they are still there.

The problem here isn't so much the bots as the emotional trauma you are letting their mere presence cause you. 

4) Some of you might think that this could be fun since the game is based on an open PvP engine, but that is also so false. I can't believe you find any more that you willing to run around killing the bots and the other retards you encounter in a systematic way, because their defense is simple: They don't attack back. If they don't attack back you turn red if you kill them, and you risk dropping you equipment ( both equiped and from inventory) on death. In many cases the bots have so called bot-protectors which monitor if any flagged red enter the area, and then come with a high lvl to kill the flagged character.

 See above.

Had you made this post three years ago, it might have made sense. Are there bots in L2? Sure as heck yeah.  Has the game evolved such that their impact is minimal? Pretty much.

Let it go, man. Don't let this stuff eat you up inside like this.

Hello again,

I will reply to the comments regarding my original thread.

1) Why make an account here just to randomly shit on this game?

Answer 1: I had an account here a while ago and participated in the discussion about the terrible failure of Age of Conan. MMORPG.com is one of the best independent sites for info regarding MMOs.It's the site I turn to when looking for new games to try out, so that is why I think good and critical reviews should be posted here. On official forums you usually find a majority of so called fanbois who for some reason think they do the game good by praising it when it's bad. The truth is that they both do that game worse and the MMO community in general worse when allowing developers and gaming companies to sell products which doesnt deliever either content or customer service that we all expect in this age.

2) The grinding I occasionally find addictive in short bursts. But inane design and an excessively steep exp curve keep me from playing it much.

Comment 2: Yes, I was looking for a new MMO which had some of the old school grinding. In some old games you could go on for hours in great teams, or be waiting for hours to get a spot in a good team. Lineage 2 is nothing like this when leveling up. As I said before, the rational players have several accounts and team just with themself with buffers/healers on follow, and estimates I have heard says that more than 50% of those who has gone to level 80+ has been boting. Since the community is a sad story, and the game has been crying for a buff in the xp rewards for teaming, you end up soloing most of the time. Unless you join a clan and someone feels pitty for you, or for some other reason wants to team with you just for the company. The feeling that you don't accomplish more in a team (xp/hr),  is a terrible let down when, and quite frustrating for experienced players who try to push it to the limit like I do when grinding AoE-style.

3) You're half right about the PVP. The PVP is actually very good, if you play it the way it is intended and it definitely wasn't intended to be a kill anyone, anywhere, anytime for any reason type game. So if that's what you're looking for, don't bother.

Comment 3) The PVP is non-excistant at lower lvls (or for the casual player for months of play) besides random PVP which basicly involes three things. Some jackass comming with his main character to push you away from a xp-spot, getting attacked by usually a high lvl out farming those his clan is in war with, if you are stupid enough to kill a bot and the bot-protector comes and kills you. Neither of these forms of PvP is what any experienced player calls PvP, but rather ganking. The PvP in this game is only for those lvl 70+ and it takes months with casual play to achieve participation in it with casual legit play. Besides that you will probably also have to lvl up both a dwarf to tradeskill, other alts with pets to sell and farm for countless hours to get a decent gear to be nothing but cannon meat in PVP.

4) The post of LynxJSA can pretty much be disregarded as it is very falsified. That you can get decent gear in an hour is just rubbish. People quit the game after grinding several hours a day for months hoping to take part in the end-game pvp which they picture could be a cool thing. And the main reason those who stand the boting and terrible community quit is that they have to buy adena to get into s-grade(best) gear, and then you can risk ruining it all if you overenchant it to compete with those that have a 5 yr head-start on you, and you have to farm it all again. But seriously, the common sense from the people I have spoken to is that no new players get into s-grade gear unless they ebay or bot - it is as simple as that.  If you want to run around getting slaughtered if you try to engage in PVP and be a terrible gimp compared to other players in PVE be my guest.

 Best regards,

Vikingen

Paladin on the Teon Server

Originally posted by Norzeman

4) The post of LynxJSA can pretty much be disregarded as it is very falsified. That you can get decent gear in an hour is just rubbish. People quit the game after grinding several hours a day for months hoping to take part in the end-game pvp which they picture could be a cool thing. And the main reason those who stand the boting and terrible community quit is that they have to buy adena to get into s-grade(best) gear, and then you can risk ruining it all if you overenchant it to compete with those that have a 5 yr head-start on you, and you have to farm it all again. But seriously, the common sense from the people I have spoken to is that no new players get into s-grade gear unless they ebay or bot - it is as simple as that.  If you want to run around getting slaughtered if you try to engage in PVP and be a terrible gimp compared to other players in PVE be my guest.

Falsified?

In Lineage 2:

- you can be level 18 inside of 2 hours

- players can receive beneficial support magic (buffs) for their characters from NPCs clear up to about level 50 or so

- common armor drops have been added and they have also been placed into the stores. a full set of level-appropriate armor can be obtained inside an hour or so of hunting

- Lineage 2 is a Korean grind game. It was always about taking forever to get to the cap and endgame gear. This is nothing new. What NCSoft *has* done is greatly reduced the time it takes to get from level 1-50 in order to bring new players up into the range of the veteran players faster - a smart move for any aging MMO

You dispute that?

Look, you don't like bots, fine. But to make shit up and say I'm lying because you don't want to hear it is just plain silly.

I'm sorry the bots caused you so much trauma that you dropped to this level of blind crusade. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

If you for some reason live a very strange life and decided to try out this grind-fest you would be encounting bots all over, people who don't know the basic concepts of MMOs, so bad players that they wouldn't get invited to a pug in most good games.
 

You are aware that almsot everyone that meet you ingame thought you were a retarded person, the tank with a pole.

lol you are complaining here now? your so full of it. Leave the game allready nobody agreed with you in the offical forums and its sad that perons that havent tried the game will see this post first and actually think that you know what you are talking about.

Or they should at least put a *disclaimer* as to what level you have to be.. so you might see a bot.

I tired this game out for a bit (account is still active but in cancel mode).  I was up around level 20 before I saw my first other actual human controlled character let alone a bot.  I picked what was supposed to be the most populated US server...

Yes its an older game etc etc  But my old DAoC cluster with 155 people on it.. I saw people sooner.

Its just very hard for me to feel like I'm in a virtual world when it feels so ... dead.   To me that was the absolute biggest issue with this game.  I've only seen a few MMO's that weren't affected by "bots"... so I'm not even sure why that's supposed to be an issue.

Or at least its not an issue unique to this game... (the "in game" economy).

Check out Vanguard as it is today. Vanguard is our last hope Obiwan!

 www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE3MZf6q7Bk
 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuB1Yt4KUaU&fmt=2

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ji-9y2iVYQ&feature=related

You will be glad you did!

:)

You say the bots over inflate the prices. But in turn they lower the prices of many items on the market. The more bots farming the items, the more items that are being sold in town, the more the sellers are lowering prices to try and sell thier item before the other players. If it werent for bots the economy and rareness of items in the game wuld be through the roof. I remember when bots were farming boss jewlery it was as little as 200mil for an AQ ring now since normal clans are farming them they have sky rocketed up to 1.9bil for an AQ ring. Im opposed to bots myself but not because the economy but just for high lvl players that didnt earn thier lvls and talk crap. The games not for anyone who wants to be handed lvls and items for doing practically nothing but more for those who want to earn things that everyone doesnt have. You kinda get a feeling of rewarded after saving up all the adena or working the market to your advantage to get that OE'd glowing weapon or highest armor set. As for graphics i havent seen many other mmorpg's but sure kicks the ass out fo WoW and Age of Conan for being a 5 year old game.

-yoda69
lvl 77hk/79mm/65aw
Phoenix Server
 

PS: If you want to see actual players in the game goto Giran..thats where everything is sold. I can get above lvl 20 in one day so if your hanging around those lvling places most likely you wont see anyone. Most people in the game are D grade + thats 20+ for anyone who is new.  My server isnt dead come to Phoenix. :)

I agree with the point made that the OP's post is somewhat "late to the party". Most people who have played/being playing this game already knows what you've brought to light.

I went into the game knowing what it was from the get-go: The first(?) attempt to bring Korean grind-madness to the States. Codemasters tried it again with RF Online. Thing is, these type of games don't do well commercially because you have a totally different demographic. I pretty much tried it just to see if everyone's opinions of the game were justified, or just inflated. Turns out the majority was spot on.

Originally posted by Norzeman

Greetings fellow gamers !

I have been playing MMOs for more than 7 yrs now, and in search for a new game after the failure of both Age of Conan and Warhammer Online I decided to go back in history and try out Lineage 2.

 Why do you think I utterly care about your bull crap time in MMO's. It isn't helpful in your 'lecture' and most of all, it seems to me you are a complete ass.

The game is around 5 yrs old and has a very nice selection of classes and subclasses which many new releases could learn a lot from, but besides that it is truely a sad story. I will not bother to complain further about the poor visual customization and the horrific click to move technology( no jumping, getting stuck on rocks, corners, etc - you don't feel like you are in real control of your character), the awful user interface, and other pretty obvious faults.

As you said; the game is 5 years old and that is why the visuals aren't what they used to be; but hey I don't care dick about it. Because it is about the gameplay and not the visuals. If you want visuals; install a Futuremark Product or just WOW.

My main concern is that the game is just infested with bots, cheaters and has the worst gaming community I have ever encounted, and both the GMs and the community seem to have no will or power to change this.

Your main concern is nothing more than be named the king of knowledge. The bans are flying all over and people get banned from the server daily. But, as you might know from you utter knowlegde, every MMO (popular ones) has Bots bothering them.

The main reasons you should avoid this game is:

1) Because of all the bots the economy is so inflated that legit players will have to grind for years to come to get the money needed for top grade gear. Besides that, teaming is of very little value in this game, as most who know what they are doing team with themself dual or triple boxed with support classes.

Pfff.. You ever heard of common items mate? They are very reasonable for low level players. You don't have to grind dick if you don't want to. Shut your mouth about teaming, because it seems to me you just left out of it. Maybe because of your attitude?

2) If you for some reason live a very strange life and decided to try out this grind-fest you would be encounting bots all over, people who don't know the basic concepts of MMOs, so bad players that they wouldn't get invited to a pug in most good games.

 Wow... you have a paladin, and you didn't  grind?? You did? Do you live a very strange live then? Don't lie ass, obviously you are trying to show your all knowing wisdom here.

3) If you for some reason even after discovering all this decided to still stick to the game you would be even more frustrated as you report the same bots for several days to the gms, you train them to death 50+ times, and they are still there.

 The bots I report get banned, maybe your über MMO Player power button doesn't work huh?

4) Some of you might think that this could be fun since the game is based on an open PvP engine, but that is also so false. I can't believe you find any more that you willing to run around killing the bots and the other retards you encounter in a systematic way, because their defense is simple: They don't attack back. If they don't attack back you turn red if you kill them, and you risk dropping you equipment ( both equiped and from inventory) on death. In many cases the bots have so called bot-protectors which monitor if any flagged red enter the area, and then come with a high lvl to kill the flagged character.

 Yeah that is true, the bots don't fight back. That is why we just let them banned. And... for your notice.. You don't drop dick if you are red and dead.

So, as a conclusion, stay far away from this game. Don't give those shitty developers and GMs who don't care about the community any financial support.

 I stay far away from you.

Cheers,

 

Vikingen

Paladin Moron on the Teon Server.

 

 

This is an obvious troll attempt and a sad one at that. Anybody that makes topics like Dont Play This Game are trolls. He never even answered why he made an account just to make a negative post about Lineage 2. He said he had one a while back when Age Of Conan came out and then he goes on to talk about why he comes to MMORPG.com That does not answer the question.If you dont like game why make a signature saying you are a Paladin on Teon.

Sorry but I am not buying any of this. Now that your cover has been blown I want to know who sent you and who do you work for?

Yeah the OP is trolling big time, he doesn't even mention all the lower level content to help level fast, nor the easy to acquire common weapons and armor. First off bots are not the only thing that put the economy in the way it is, it was also players buying 100's of millions of adena, and players selling at rediculous high prices because of the influx of adena.

1. Bots are not as bad as it used to be and the gm's are banning them as they find them.

2. The grind is not so bad as you make it out to believe.

3. Just ignore them until the KS a mob, other wise they are not harming you.

4. You can work the red off by killing mobs but the PK you need to see a Black Judge for that. Also don't worry about PK's until after 5 of them. If a high level comes to gank you just run until you can port out to town. Besides you only stay flagged for 2 minutes.

If anything please don't go by what the OP has said, it's not as harsh as people say, just give it a try and you might be surprised by what you see. Avoid money sinks early in game until you have a handle on things and get into a active guild either before or after level 40.

NCSoft has done an admirable job in making this game more accessable, for sure. I returned briefly after the first half of the Gracia expansion was released. Even though the grind is still there, it isn't by any means as daunting as it once was.

Given, the game may not be for some. But to post warning any and all potential enjoyers of this game not to at least try is a bit harsh.

I have to agree with the last poster.  To provide a "Warning to New Players" thread in the manner in which the OP has, does a disservice to NCsoft.

I played Lineage 1 from early 2000 until early 2004 when Lineage 2 was released.  My Pledge from Lin1 moved "en masse" from one game to the other.  I have now been playing for 5 years.  I play legit, so my highest character has yet to reach 79, though I have a subclassed character at 76, and a second subclassed at 65.  I have various other characters used to break up the boredom of one play style.  Having said that, several points should be made to clarify some of the comments made above.

First, yes, there are bots.  If they bother you, they probably always will.  I've come to accept that they are part of the game, and aren't going to go away.  99% of the time I never have an issue with them.  I do just about everything I want with relatively little interference from bots or their protectors.  For me, it's basically a mute point and a dead issue.

Second, the new PvP rules that were put in place have pretty much squashed the ganking that used to happen.  You still have the random power-leveled PC that's getting ready to quit the game and goes on a "get as red as I can" killing spree.  But these days it's few and far between.  My clan has held a castle at various times over the past couple of years.  We aren't that big, but we're legit and consistent.  We have a good reputation and enjoy the game and each other's company.

That's what MMORPG's are all about - community.  You don't play Lineage 2 by yourself.  It wasn't designed that way.  It was designed to play with others, depending on the various skill sets the different classes have to make a seige, or raid, or hunt work the way it was designed.  There is virtually no way at the mid to high levels to do it on your own.  I see it as my social time, much like going to the pub and drinking beer and tossing darts.

The bottom line is this ... Lineage 2 is a great game ... if you like good graphics, if you like the community approach, and if you like the grind.  The new territory wars, instanced dungeons, and character enhancements have made it even more enjoyable since it first came out five years ago.  I couldn't disagree more with the OP.

Whereas I frown upon botting, in the case of this game, I used botters to my advantage. When I was still a lowbie, nothing thrilled me more than discovering a "glitter field", drops and Adena left behind by someone's bot. And they are more common to discover than you might think.

So yeah, I hate botters, and botting. But if I can warp the bastards to my advantage, awesome. But I'll always play legit.

welcome to the forum norzeman. lol.  this is not new, lol.  7 yrs you said? lol.  welcome.. lol.

I like how he trashes this game and then signs with his name/class/server. lol

Hi guys, been playin MMOs for a million years and have played pretty every single one from Ultima Online, and I just wanted to say that no one cares how long you have been playing MMOs... Thanks. 

Originally posted by Norzeman

Greetings fellow gamers !

I have been playing MMOs for more than 7 yrs now, and in search for a new game after the failure of both Age of Conan and Warhammer Online I decided to go back in history and try out Lineage 2.

 

The game is around 5 yrs old and has a very nice selection of classes and subclasses which many new releases could learn a lot from, but besides that <5min long Family guy esque fart noise>

 

Cheers,

 

Vikingen

Paladin on the Teon Server.

 

 

Fixed.

Also I Have characters on Phoenix.  This bot problem everybody speaks of is almost non existant compared to the first year of the game.  So give it a rest already.  They generally stay out of your way and don't bug you.  

If you happen to get an arrogant one, go get that old red char out and kill the healer(s) in the train.  They'll go away after that.

I'm considering re-subing shortly.