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Originally posted by LogothX
Most likely, yes. Look back a few pages I list the files you need to search for and remove from the system folder and the registry entries (be careful though if you are not comfortable with such things).
Originally posted by britzban
On GameGuard you are simply wrong. By definition GameGuard is both a rootkit and spyware as the definitions make no allowance for intent, good or bad.
From a recent US-CERT (United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team) report: Spyware is one type of malicious software (malware) that collects information from a computing
Since GameGuard installs without user consent and with no EULA or Privacy Policy it is clearly properly classified as Spyware even without proof or even suspision that nProtect does anything it shouldn't with the data collected. Now, semantics aside, I think the term rootkit applies most accurately as the classifies the methodology and technology in use by GameGuard. In and of itself the term rootkit is not a bad thing in terms of the origin of the term, back in the Unix days a rootkit was simply a tool an admin used to gain root access, often remotely, for doing legitimate work. It is only of late that the technologies and methods have been used for more unscupulous things.
Originally posted by TheHistorian
I agree, PMB seems innocuous and while I think a commercial venture like a pay to play MMO should host its own files that is a small thing in the scope of things. PMB installs and uninstalls properly and the user is informed fully they are installing it so no foul there. -------------------------------- |
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Thanks for this info.
Definitely put me off the game for now, i dont really see why a MMO needs a rootkit, let alone a free game?
Hate this kinda thing.
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Originally posted by templarga The reason I (among others) ask for documentation is that I have yet to see proof that this program has been used in a malicious way. The OP and others wants those of us who like TCOS or play it to remove it from our computers because it MIGHT be a problem in the future. My argument is, if you like the game, then its worth the risk. Sure, you need to take as many precautions as possible. Update Windows, run virus-scan and others types of preventive measures. Nobody here is denying that. Nor am I, or others saying, wait until you have a problem with GG and then do something about it. Therre is plenty you can do in advance to make sure GG isn't a problem. There are plenty of programs that could be risk factors. The issue here is that the OP and others make GG out to be massively worse than those and also basically says TCOS is a horrible game because of it. To me, that isn't accurate. I am not going to not play a game because of a software program unless I think its a big enough risk and my asking for proof of a real threat from GG is exactly that - I have yet to see anything that even remotely worries me with GG. And I simply am not (or would not) play a game I enjoy just because of what might happen. By that logic, we should all live in caves and do nothing: Do not drive a car, you might have a wreck. Do not cross the street, you might get hit by a car. Do not walk up the stairs,, you might fall down. Do not parachute out of an airplane, your chute might not open. Do not play this game, it might have a security risk. Simply put, I have yet to see enough CAUSE for concern with GG and if I like TCOS, I feel the safety precuations I have taken with my computer are enough to warrant my trust and enjoyment of TCOS and GG.
This is perfectly valid. Now we are moving into the territory of what constitutes "Acceptable Risk", which is very subjective and differs for everyone. I don't think the AgntSmith was calling for anyone to remove anything based on his findings. What I got from this was him letting people know how GG behaves and how it operates like a rootkit. I am defending that point, just as I will defend the point you just made. There is no right or wrong here and I think many are detracting from that basic fact. The facts here can't be contradicted because they are facts; GG behaves like a rootkit and the way it is installed leaves much room for improvement. Reputable sources have been cited that provide solid proof that GG poses a security risk due to the way it runs on your system. The argument here seems to be what to do about it. I am not going to add anything to that except to say that what each person does with their system is their business. You know the facts, you make your choice. |
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Originally posted by crazer1
Had that been his stance, the conversation would probably have ended on the first page.
"There is a huge difference between legitimate software like PunkBuster that does things correctly and semi malicious software like GameGuard, SecureROM, and others." "Are you seriously telling me that you trust and unknown third party, one who hides is method and capability from you and obfuscates your removal even if you find out about it to just not do something inappropriate? Please, that is just stupid. Perhaps they will never do anything malicious, that is not the point - why in the hell would you put them in a position to be able to without your knowledge or ability to stop them? That is foolish." "...don't bother being responsible now and refusing to do business with companies that do things like this that are at best risky and invasive even if not malicious."
That's jsut from his first four or five posts. I could go on, but you get the point.
He has repeatedly called the company evil, the software malicious and contended that people who allow it to be on their system are stupid and foolish.
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Originally posted by vesavius
Your suggesting to me that people don't have alt accounts on this forum then? That they don't use them to support their own points and bump their own posts?
Not in the least. Its entirely possible. BUT such gets in to a logical fallacy known as "argumentum ad ignorantiam" other wise known as proving a negative. I was more teasing you than anything.
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Originally posted by britzban
Talk about framing the question... The main question was about its risky manner of operation. That HAS been established to be much the same as a root kit **in operational terms**. Those who seek to derail the thread in to questions of "malicious intentions" or demonstrations of evidence of damage are either missing the point, or have other agendas. Thanks for the post Historian, that cleared everything up... |
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I believe this thread has run it's course. Points were made, facts were stated, thread is locked before it starts inching closer towards becoming an inferno of flames and a haven of trolls. I am sure most of our readers thank you for the bit of information. |
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Its more likely that since this is now 20 plus pages long(and thus tends to show up on the front page more often) that its just attracted their attention.
