http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=26291

I believe it all started with this thread.  Contrats Elikal, they made a Penny Arcade comic due to your post lol

I was discussing that thread last night with some other gamers. I think it's annoying as hell that some feel the need to push their agenda on game forums. Like I said I think any kind of romance in an MMO is annoying. Nothing against Elikal or anyone else who has started threads like this, but come on man.

There are a number of player groups based around being gay, I remember when SWG launched their forums had a major issue with these groups and their right to exist in game.

Personally I just do not much care about it one way or the other, either you are or you are not gay. I do not see it as noteworthy, and I do not get offended by it. 

I am sure there were gay people in the Star Wars universe however ;)

Originally posted by Thornwolf

There are a number of player groups based around being gay, I remember when SWG launched their forums had a major issue with these groups and their right to exist in game.

Personally I just do not much care about it one way or the other, either you are or you are not gay. I do not see it as noteworthy, and I do not get offended by it. 

I am sure there were gay people in the Star Wars universe however ;)

There's a pair of Mandalorian lovers in a book titled 'Sacrafice' apparently - Like most of the books however, I haven't read it.

Either way I was just posting this to show off the ToR comic.

Originally posted by DeaconX

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=26291

I believe it all started with this thread.  Contrats Elikal, they made a Penny Arcade comic due to your post lol

*falls over* OMG. Am I famous now? Maybe I can start selling autographs? XD

Seriously, this SO went out of hands. I mean, for me the issue is important. I didnt start a thread here, since the response of Bioware was fast and reasonable.

On a very personal note, I really don't get it why straights have such difficulties just to let us be. I mean, seriously, I am a pretty normal guy like anyone. It's not that I am in any way remarkable, or any gay person I know is. What so many make a fuzz of it... its beyond me. Its like saying peaches were evil, only all other fruits and alright. I just dont get it.

I guess for Bioware its a PR disaster, and that is unfortunate. I dont understand it; when Bliizzard had it's gay/lesbian issue with WOW, I thought other companies would handle it different. There are many gay character in trivial culture, games, TV shows, comics... its 2009! And in none of them it is any issue. Heck, in the 1992 published Ultima VII you had gay romance options! In Sims 2 it exists and none cares.

Maybe living in a city with a gay mayor, and none cares a drat, I am surprised at the explosion it caused. Dozens of internet mags reported about this. Oh well... guess there goes my hope for a beta invite. ;)

Seriously, Bioware solved it reasonable. So far no more hard feelings from me towards them.

I just wish straight people would understand a bit more why this is of importance to us. I heard so many telling me not to bring it to a game and that it doesnt belong to games. No? Never seen straights being openly straight in MMOs?

The worst and most hilarious part however wasn't Bioware - they handled it quickly and reasonable enough for my taste - it was the reaction of those who disagreed. The vast majority of those who attacked me, claimed that I brought politics into a game and that I brought sexual themes into a game, which did not belong to gaming.

Now - THAT was new to me. I mean, if you ever played a MMO, or any game, there hardly is any where straight NPCs or player characters hide their STRAIGHT sexual orientation. They date, flirt, love and express their straight sexuality everywhere. It's not that we try to bring something alien or new to this topic. Love, romances, relationship and sexual topics and filling games! So for me it was just the question, why can't we when straight people show the sexual preference all the time? It is a grim echo of days when White people wanted places where no Black people were allowed. Some white-protestant-straight-males just want to keep games "gay-free-zones". But to what ridiculous lengths people were going to justify their prejudices and their hate.... claiming we brought "dirty topics" to games, and they want to keep it "for kids". Now I dont know how many times people in Goldshire in WOW have seen straight couples laying in one of the beds there. It's not that we were asking for a Dark Room or a Sling hanging in the back room of every Star Wars cantina!

How can you make a Role Playing Game with the idea of a social community and delete ALL notions of romance options out? I understand not everyone wants to follow it; some just want to "kill stuff". Fine. But a lot of straight people act VERY outed. Which is also fine. But when you can, why can't we??
 

This is so straight...

You know,  I don't have anything with homosexuality and it's members playing in a MMO but, what I do have a problem with is a "forced" homosexuality placed in a MMO when not everyone lives that life style.

Its like taking a specific religion in a MMO and saying "hey except it.", which would be MMO suicide.

I say if you want homosexuality in the game and just feel a need to have it around you, start a homo sexual guild of like minded individuals.

Originally posted by Thornwolf

There are a number of player groups based around being gay, I remember when SWG launched their forums had a major issue with these groups and their right to exist in game.

Personally I just do not much care about it one way or the other, either you are or you are not gay. I do not see it as noteworthy, and I do not get offended by it. 

I am sure there were gay people in the Star Wars universe however ;)

You sounded almost like Yoda for a second there.  Either you are or you are not gay.  There is no Bi.

lol.

Originally posted by tillamook

I was discussing that thread last night with some other gamers. I think it's annoying as hell that some feel the need to push their agenda on game forums. Like I said I think any kind of romance in an MMO is annoying. Nothing against Elikal or anyone else who has started threads like this, but come on man.

 

I very much agree, especially when issues are brought up over small things that shouldn't be issues. I also dislike the general notion that special treatment is deserved. It's a word, that is mostly used in a derogatory way, a way that usually has nothing to do with the sexual orientation, and Bioware decided to filter it on their forums. Big woopity doo. It isn't hurting anyone in any way. It is their forums, and they can do whatever they want with them.

So gayness in Star Wars is not OK, but making out with your own sister is fine !

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by DeaconX

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=26291

I believe it all started with this thread.  Contrats Elikal, they made a Penny Arcade comic due to your post lol

 

*falls over* OMG. Am I famous now? Maybe I can start selling autographs? XD

Seriously, this SO went out of hands. I mean, for me the issue is important. I didnt start a thread here, since the response of Bioware was fast and reasonable.

On a very personal note, I really don't get it why straights have such difficulties just to let us be. I mean, seriously, I am a pretty normal guy like anyone. It's not that I am in any way remarkable, or any gay person I know is. What so many make a fuzz of it... its beyond me. Its like saying peaches were evil, only all other fruits and alright. I just dont get it.

I guess for Bioware its a PR disaster, and that is unfortunate. I dont understand it; when Bliizzard had it's gay/lesbian issue with WOW, I thought other companies would handle it different. There are many gay character in trivial culture, games, TV shows, comics... its 2009! And in none of them it is any issue. Heck, in the 1992 published Ultima VII you had gay romance options! In Sims 2 it exists and none cares.

Maybe living in a city with a gay mayor, and none cares a drat, I am surprised at the explosion it caused. Dozens of internet mags reported about this. Oh well... guess there goes my hope for a beta invite. ;)

Seriously, Bioware solved it reasonable. So far no more hard feelings from me towards them.

 

I just wish straight people would understand a bit more why this is of importance to us. I heard so many telling me not to bring it to a game and that it doesnt belong to games. No? Never seen straights being openly straight in MMOs?

The worst and most hilarious part however wasn't Bioware - they handled it quickly and reasonable enough for my taste - it was the reaction of those who disagreed. The vast majority of those who attacked me, claimed that I brought politics into a game and that I brought sexual themes into a game, which did not belong to gaming.

Now - THAT was new to me. I mean, if you ever played a MMO, or any game, there hardly is any where straight NPCs or player characters hide their STRAIGHT sexual orientation. They date, flirt, love and express their straight sexuality everywhere. It's not that we try to bring something alien or new to this topic. Love, romances, relationship and sexual topics and filling games! So for me it was just the question, why can't we when straight people show the sexual preference all the time? It is a grim echo of days when White people wanted places where no Black people were allowed. Some white-protestant-straight-males just want to keep games "gay-free-zones". But to what ridiculous lengths people were going to justify their prejudices and their hate.... claiming we brought "dirty topics" to games, and they want to keep it "for kids". Now I dont know how many times people in Goldshire in WOW have seen straight couples laying in one of the beds there. It's not that we were asking for a Dark Room or a Sling hanging in the back room of every Star Wars cantina!

How can you make a Role Playing Game with the idea of a social community and delete ALL notions of romance options out? I understand not everyone wants to follow it; some just want to "kill stuff". Fine. But a lot of straight people act VERY outed. Which is also fine. But when you can, why can't we??
 

 

This is so straight...

THe problem people have with your agenda is that its forcing your sexualality on others. Sure, everything  in games is geared towards straight, thats for a reason. 99% of the players live a straight lifestyle. Even the gay members of my WoW guild dont want to be known only for thier personal choice. Sex doesnt belong in a MMO of this type.

Now, if you want to have a guild for gays, by all means do it. Hope its more succesful than most. But identifiying yourself by your sexual preference isnt a good thing, try identifying yourself by your deeds. I dont care nor do I want to know what you like, most gamers feel this way. We play the games to forget real life, not be reminded that I'm a friggin bigot for not liking the guy who calls himself "Rainbowpally" due to his name.

Originally posted by Nergle

You know,  I don't have anything with homosexuality and it's members playing in a MMO but, what I do have a problem with is a "forced" homosexuality placed in a MMO when not everyone lives that life style.

 

Its like taking a specific religion in a MMO and saying "hey except it.", which would be MMO suicide.

I say if you want homosexuality in the game and just feel a need to have it around you, start a homo sexual guild of like minded individuals.

 

Like it stated in the post above yours, which you obiously didn't read.  We are tired of hetero themes being forced on us in games and they ARE contantly in our face.  If you don't want homosexual themes, then it goes to say there shouldn't be any heterosexual either.  Bioware is famous for having romance themes in their games and it would really be nice if they accepted and catered to others along with those of the hetero persuasion.  One out of ten people are gay or bisexual.  That is a large percentage of the population and we deserve to be treated with respect and if a game is going to shove heterosexual themes down our throats, then they should include gay ones too.

Originally posted by Vrazule

Originally posted by Nergle

You know,  I don't have anything with homosexuality and it's members playing in a MMO but, what I do have a problem with is a "forced" homosexuality placed in a MMO when not everyone lives that life style.

 

Its like taking a specific religion in a MMO and saying "hey except it.", which would be MMO suicide.

I say if you want homosexuality in the game and just feel a need to have it around you, start a homo sexual guild of like minded individuals.

 

 

Like it stated in the post above yours, which you obiously didn't read.  We are tired of hetero themes being forced on us in games and they ARE contantly in our face.  If you don't want homosexual themes, then it goes to say there shouldn't be any heterosexual either.  Bioware is famous for having romance themes in their games and it would really be nice if they accepted and catered to others along with those of the hetero persuasion.  One out of ten people are gay or bisexual.  That is a large percentage of the population and we deserve to be treated with respect and if a game is going to shove heterosexual themes down our throats, then they should include gay ones too.

That is absolutely ridiculous. First, I'd like to see any backing to support that statistic. Secondly, do you know why heterosexual themes are displayed in video games? Because it is normal, and it is natural.

I, personally, don't want to see any man on man action in any of my video games, sorry.

Originally posted by Greenneutron

So gayness in Star Wars is not OK, but making out with your own sister is fine !

Exactly!

Originally posted by Vrazule

Originally posted by Nergle

You know,  I don't have anything with homosexuality and it's members playing in a MMO but, what I do have a problem with is a "forced" homosexuality placed in a MMO when not everyone lives that life style.

 

Its like taking a specific religion in a MMO and saying "hey except it.", which would be MMO suicide.

I say if you want homosexuality in the game and just feel a need to have it around you, start a homo sexual guild of like minded individuals.

 

 

Like it stated in the post above yours, which you obiously didn't read.  We are tired of hetero themes being forced on us in games and they ARE contantly in our face.  If you don't want homosexual themes, then it goes to say there shouldn't be any heterosexual either.  Bioware is famous for having romance themes in their games and it would really be nice if they accepted and catered to others along with those of the hetero persuasion.  One out of ten people are gay or bisexual.  That is a large percentage of the population and we deserve to be treated with respect and if a game is going to shove heterosexual themes down our throats, then they should include gay ones too.

There are far fewer gays/lesbians than you assume.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070514213700AAL4Jhk 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_is_gay

http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm

Percentage is no more than 5%. So, of that percentage, that would make about 1 to less than 1% of gamers are gay. So, do you think its cost effective to make a game that would only cater to no more than 1% of a target audience? No, not when you have other more important things to code.

Keep sex out of MMO's is A better option. Having a in game roleplay ability to marry any gender would be easy to do, SWG had something along those lines.

this thread reminds me about the time when people were complaing in the swg forums that the "ewok festival of love" did not allow for players to select an ewok partner of the same sex. apparently, if you wanted a male ewok partner and your character was male, you would always receive "i am not interested" as a reply... anyway some people were upset about this episode.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by DeaconX

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=26291

I believe it all started with this thread.  Contrats Elikal, they made a Penny Arcade comic due to your post lol

 *falls over* OMG. Am I famous now? Maybe I can start selling autographs? XD

 I just wish straight people would understand a bit more why this is of importance to us. I heard so many telling me not to bring it to a game and that it doesnt belong to games. No? Never seen straights being openly straight in MMOs?

How can you make a Role Playing Game with the idea of a social community and delete ALL notions of romance options out? I understand not everyone wants to follow it; some just want to "kill stuff". Fine. But a lot of straight people act VERY outed. Which is also fine. But when you can, why can't we??
 

 

 

Yeah people half to put themselves in your shoes! But so everyone can easier sympathize with the same subject in relation to games. "Say you want to proclaim yourself as a gamer on a forum about cars" How pissed would you be if you wherent allowed to say the word gamer, or for that matter, when you tried to people got offended. I would be pissed.

But Elikal, I think a lot of people understand. But there are always idiots who dont. Just like there are idiots who call me a gamer as if it's a bad thing when I couldn't be prouder. You seem like a very upstandingly normal person and that's what counts. I don't plan on having many less people calling me a gamer. But as long as I got my group of fellow gamers to go back to, it's no problem.
 

Same deal for you, your sexual orientation has been around since recorded histroy began. It's nothing new, and deffinently not to be ashamed about as long as you feel it is what is right. And no doubt that comic strip is thanks to you haha, that was amazing, I guess you are pretty famous now lmao. Which in it's own way gave your thread on the swtor forums a larger purpose, and proof that it was a success (=

Im sorry, sexual relations have no place in a MMO. The filter was used to block derrogatory words. I'd go so far to bet that 95% of the time the words that guy was complaining about are used in a derrogatory maner.

You are welcome to believe, think, and practice whatever the hell you want. However, I dont understand the desperate need to make sure everyone knows what you feel and think.

Im a straight man, if you were to blot out straight and sex from a forum I would not be offended, why? Cause there is no reason to discuss those terms in a game.

Even in roleplaying avenues, a character's sexual preference is irrelevant to the game. The only time I think sexual preference matters is if you are cybering, and last time I checked, most games allow the use of profanity and derrogatory terms via pm...which is where sexual preference, politics, and religion should stay in relation to a game forum and community.

Originally posted by lugal

The problem people have with your agenda is that its forcing your sexualality on others.

Ok, I don't want ANY more quests where I have to save someone's wife or husband.

No more getting a flower for a guy to give to a girl, thats pushing the straight agenda on me.

I'm tired of all the references to people having "children"

Don't you see how rediculous it is to say hes forcing his sexuality on others?  Anywhere you go you can find couples holding hands and kissing in real life.  In a virtual world I've had many many friends who have online romances and its rediculous I agree but why should it only be limited to straight couples?

It seems very biased and very slated.  Every game has references to straight activities. 

I've never got a potion for an orc to give to another guy orc that would make him like him more cus he has a crush on him.  That quest will never see the light of day.

Just insane.

Edit: If sexuality has no place in video games or mmos why are there naked breasts in AoC?

hmm....  oh yeah and doesn't that prostitute give you services too?

Originally posted by lugal

 

There are far fewer gays/lesbians than you assume.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070514213700AAL4Jhk 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_is_gay

http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm

 

Percentage is no more than 5%. So, of that percentage, that would make about 1 to less than 1% of gamers are gay. So, do you think its cost effective to make a game that would only cater to no more than 1% of a target audience? No, not when you have other more important things to code.

Keep sex out of MMO's is A better option. Having a in game roleplay ability to marry any gender would be easy to do, SWG had something along those lines.

You really belive only 5% is homosexual? Forget about statistics and use your own life experience, do you really belive only 5%?

A lot of people hide bi/homosexual desires from others and from themselves.

Sex is present in MMOs and in everything with  human touch, there is sex in quests, armors, emotes, voice chat  and texts, even some creatures are sexual.

There are heterosexual expressions all over MMOs, why not a bit of homosexualism too?

If you think sex in MMOs is equal to cybering, you should pay more atention to details.

...

Originally posted by lugal 

THe problem people have with your agenda is that its forcing your sexualality on others. Sure, everything  in games is geared towards straight, thats for a reason. 99% of the players live a straight lifestyle. Even the gay members of my WoW guild dont want to be known only for thier personal choice. Sex doesnt belong in a MMO of this type.

Now, if you want to have a guild for gays, by all means do it. Hope its more succesful than most. But identifiying yourself by your sexual preference isnt a good thing, try identifying yourself by your deeds. I dont care nor do I want to know what you like, most gamers feel this way. We play the games to forget real life, not be reminded that I'm a friggin bigot for not liking the guy who calls himself "Rainbowpally" due to his name.

I think that the point is not that the poster objects to heterosexual themes in games, or is pushing for homosexual themes in games, but in this particular case is merely objecting to the fact that the words used to define homosexual identities are considered bad words. Blocked by the profanity filter and such. When you look at it that way, its kinda raw. 'Gay' and 'lesbian' shouldn't be considered bad words.

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

Im sorry, sexual relations have no place in a MMO. The filter was used to block derrogatory words. I'd go so far to bet that 95% of the time the words that guy was complaining about are used in a derrogatory maner.

You are welcome to believe, think, and practice whatever the hell you want. However, I dont understand the desperate need to make sure everyone knows what you feel and think.

Im a straight man, if you were to blot out straight and sex from a forum I would not be offended, why? Cause there is no reason to discuss those terms in a game.

Even in roleplaying avenues, a character's sexual preference is irrelevant to the game. The only time I think sexual preference matters is if you are cybering, and last time I checked, most games allow the use of profanity and derrogatory terms via pm...which is where sexual preference, politics, and religion should stay in relation to a game forum and community.

Pyrostasis, I disagree.

In roleplaying avenues character sexual preference is NOT irrelevant.

Social quests as "romance flowers", "valentines cards", the erotism of some armors, minor details are all related to sexual preferences, sexuality is not similar to politics and religion.

Sexuality reflect almost all our social attitudes, sexuality is not only coitus or in this case, cybering.

...

Originally posted by Nergle

You know,  I don't have anything with homosexuality and it's members playing in a MMO but, what I do have a problem with is a "forced" homosexuality placed in a MMO when not everyone lives that life style.

 

Its like taking a specific religion in a MMO and saying "hey except it.", which would be MMO suicide.

I say if you want homosexuality in the game and just feel a need to have it around you, start a homo sexual guild of like minded individuals.

 

Forced homosexuality? What do you mean?

When something is real, it is real, it is not "forcing" you to join or forcing you to "swallow" it.

Would you call all the heterosexual expressions in midia, games, mmos and movies as forced heterosexuality?

No one just feel the need to have sexuality around you, it will be always around us, it doesnt mater your preferences.

As I said, sexuality is present in MMOs, in quests, gear, socialization, lore etc.

...

Who really cares what percentage is gay. I look it at like natural selection if you are gay, sterile or for some reason choose not to have kids that is just nature's way of saying we need to nip your branch of the tree. People in those categories counterbalance those who keep popping outt babies like rabbits. World be a better place if people would have no more than 3 kids that way you and your spouse replace yourselves in the population and the one extra conteracts those whose preferences prevent them from contributing.  Doesn't seem like such a big deal if you look at it like that we all just fill our niche.

The facts are very clear to almost every one. Yes most MMO companys over look the fact that they have a population of players that are gay. So i could see how some could feel like were pressing the strait life style upon them. Hell i can see it too, when you mention it. I never really concrened myself with online problums but i could see how even a silly game could feel offensive. The truth of the matter is that in some states the homosexual life style is not and will never be accepted. Years of hate and discrimination will always be there.  My girl friend is black/asian and we both dread going to the southren states. Were talkin about the very very deep south, not the south you see on the news or talk about vacationing at. We have to travel through areas that look at us weird.

Let me get back to the subject though. It tickles me how the timeline works. From the dawn of civilization hommosexuality as been there. Look at the romans/greek and almost all eroupean cultures. Hell they would be marryed and be open about haveing sex with other men. Greek and roman books and poems were very open to homosexuality. Even the gods the romans and greeks belived in were known for haveing sex with the same sex. But might i digress. Gay marriage to just a all gay club is all good in my books. I see nothing diffrent about them from any other working joe. An for those saying that the gay community need to keep there necking and love talk inside, they can go to hell. If i can neck in public with my girl then i dont see why they cant neck with there lover. kinda off the subject the bit but i wanted to state my thoughts.

Based on what I have been able to read about this, it seems the main issue was a "language filter" catching certain words.

As an earlier poster mentioned, I am *entirely* sure this was because of an excess of "PC" zeal on the part of whoever wrote the filter at Bioware and the frequency with which the words in question are commonly used in insults, taunts and other forms of chat harrassment.

Since the effort was being made to *avoid* the sort of incidents and use of derogatory language that is often complained about, wouldn't it have been simpler to just accept that every MMO filter can generally be *turned off* in game and left it at that?

Why did what was clearly just an attempt to keep general chat channels "PC" evolve into this nonsense?