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50 posts found
Dana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/07/04
Posts: 2352

 
4/27/09 6:08:49 PM#1

MMORPG.com today debuts columns, which are weekly articles from some of the most respected voices in MMOs.

The first columnist is Richard Aihoshi, the veteran MMO reporter and editor of RPG Vault, Aihoshi is one of the most respected authorities on the free to play MMO genre and each Monday he'll contribute his thoughts for the MMORPG.com community.

In his debut column, "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" he explains how he came to focus on this aspect that many mainstream outlets too often neglect.

The fact of the matter is that I spend a lot of time covering the free to play sector because it is important. Very important. However, it tends to be... out of sight, out of mind. The main reason is simple. The amount of exposure that the category receives in the game media isn't nearly on the same level as its significance, neither in terms of the huge numbers of players nor the major amounts of revenue they represent. As a consequence, if you lean on those publications for information, you get little or none about free to play titles.

Read it all here.

Kyleran

Elite Member

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 8868

"In EVE, no one gives a damn about a fair fight." - chafin

4/27/09 6:27:51 PM#2

F2P's have been mostly ignored by me because when I gave them a go, they did not meet the quality standards of most P2P games.

I recently gave Runes of Magic a go and found that the gap has narrowed significantly.  Its not perfect by any means, but its a really good WOW clone that I'm still enjoying playing after a month now.  (many other MMO's failed to grab my attention).

So perhaps with higher quality F2P/s coming out, they'll be more excitement and interest in the games.

But one other factor that hurts coverage is that their very category, F2P seems deceitful to most people.

Let's face it, no one creates a game to really be played for free.  They all are designed to somehow get you to spend your cash in their item shop (or pay a montly sub fee) and do so by enticing you with many offers.

From extra content, to better gear , to simple fluff items, they all try hard to separate the player from his money, and sometimes at much higher rates than a typical P2P.

 

 

 

"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

EVE Cult member since May 2007

Regarding EVE: "To be honest, I think God himself created this game." - Shek

Regarding new players in EVE: "Think of yourself as a child released into a park full of pedophiles..." - Eleazaros
"WoW is a game for tourists, not purists." – Ilvadyr

ericbelser

Elite Member

Joined: 11/11/08
Posts: 480

4/27/09 6:31:40 PM#3

While I can understand the interest in the F2P market from an analytical viewpoint and intellectual exercise, as a gamer they are of zero interest to me. I (like most of the readers here I suspect) are from that portion of the market that does go out and buy that smoking hot video card and does upgrade/replace their gaming PC every 2 years or less. As such, I really have no interest in what to me are pieces of low tech garbage with all the gameplay restrictions imposed by their universalist nature.

Add to that the fact that the F2P business model relies entirely on direct sales of in-game items, abilities and perks to survive; many gamers find that very objectionable - I certainly do. It's a completely different consumer mindset from the subscription based MMO. (Almost akin to the difference between players of conventional PnP RPGs and players of collectible trading card games)

So, at least for me, while I am interested in the market and development aspects of F2P games; the fluff press, hype and product reviews that generally make up most of the discussion here is really of no interest whatsoever.

ganbee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/08
Posts: 248

4/27/09 7:27:58 PM#4
Originally posted by Kyleran

F2P's have been mostly ignored by me because when I gave them a go, they did not meet the quality standards of most P2P games.

I recently gave Runes of Magic a go and found that the gap has narrowed significantly.  Its not perfect by any means, but its a really good WOW clone that I'm still enjoying playing after a month now.  (many other MMO's failed to grab my attention).

So perhaps with higher quality F2P/s coming out, they'll be more excitement and interest in the games.

But one other factor that hurts coverage is that their very category, F2P seems deceitful to most people.

That is the most intelligent thing, I have read all day!

Let's face it, no one creates a game to really be played for free.  They all are designed to somehow get you to spend your cash in their item shop (or pay a montly sub fee) and do so by enticing you with many offers.

From extra content, to better gear , to simple fluff items, they all try hard to separate the player from his money, and sometimes at much higher rates than a typical P2P.

 

 

 


 

LynxJSA

Elite Member

Joined: 10/08/05
Posts: 2183

4/27/09 8:30:10 PM#5
Originally posted by Kyleran

But one other factor that hurts coverage is that their very category, F2P seems deceitful to most people.

Let's face it, no one creates a game to really be played for free.  They all are designed to somehow get you to spend your cash in their item shop (or pay a montly sub fee) and do so by enticing you with many offers.

From extra content, to better gear , to simple fluff items, they all try hard to separate the player from his money, and sometimes at much higher rates than a typical P2P.


 

Are there really people over the age of 17 on this planet that actually thought otherwise?

Ozmodan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 2790

4/27/09 8:47:07 PM#6

Granted I have not played all the f2p games out there, not even close, but there is one overriding factor that is evident in everyone I have tried.  How much you spend in the Cash shop determines how advanced your character is.

Most of the pvp in these games is significantly effected by the cash shop too.

So, it is rather disconcerting for me, when the prevalent method to success in these MMO's is to buy your way. 

Because of this one factor and the fact that none of the f2p games currently has even close to the content of any of the subscription models.  It is quite evident to most of us, that the subscription game model is superior at this point in time.

Isturi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 276

Sylar I believe your clock is a little off...

4/27/09 9:19:01 PM#7

 

It would be NAIVE to think that the companies who make F2P games are doing this for the SPORT of it. Well let me rephrase this that I'm sure that GAMING companies who PRODUCE the F2P games want to SHOWCASE there talents to the PUBLIC so F2P is a good option. LETS face it people LOVE the word free. Anywho, unfortunately MOST of these companies of course don't have the BACKING that lest say BLIZZ dose, So it seems in order to get ANY kind of playing action they need and ANY kind of reaction from GAMERS they need to DRAW us in.

 

So now what? Now once we decide to DOWNLOAD the game and give it a try we REALIZE that we are not going to have the best armor or gear or whatever the case maybe unless we buy from that games SHOP henceforth the game no longer becomes FREE to play.

On a side note GAMES like Free Realms have a happy MEADIUM were the game itself is LIMITED to play for free or very cheap to play But if you want lets say a pet you have to SPEND money for that vanity. SO go figure a Rock and a HARD place Lol

 

Falcon2K

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/14/04
Posts: 36

4/27/09 9:53:33 PM#8

The F2P games remind me of the call in tv shows where they aim at the few very dumb persons willing to spend lots of money on a winning chance tending towards zero.

To me it is just a very questionable morality to base a business on the dumbness of a few spending vast amounts of money for a virtual uber-personality.

Sure, everyone decides with his own free will to partake in that but exploiting the simple minded just leaves a very bad taste.

 

beauturkey

Mabinogi Correspondent

Joined: 7/19/04
Posts: 280

www.
spouseaggro
.com

4/27/09 10:47:49 PM#9

 The only thing I wish people would get straight is that you indeed do NOT need to spend money to be "competitive" or to "succeed" in almost any of the F2P MMO's.

 I have found that usually the people that say that have played but a few.

 I also find it funny that people seem some kind of difference between paying for access and paying for items like mounts or potions. There is no difference. It is simply a different way to hand the game company your money.

 I said on my blog/podcast, and I'll stick by it...within two years time the F2P model will be the norm, and I can't wait. 

 

 Beau

 

 

Listen to the Spouse Aggro podcast at spouseaggro.com. Twitter: spouseaggro

Quizzical

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 1456

4/27/09 11:16:11 PM#10

"Free to lose"/item mall games don't get much coverage in a lot of places that cover the premium MMORPGs for the same reasons that single-player console games don't:  they're a different market.  A considerable fraction of the people who play MMORPGs won't consider a game where winning and losing depends primarily on how much you spend on the game, more so than what you actually do in the game.  Another considerable fraction won't consider a game where you have to have a credit card and pay a subscription to play.  Either one of those groups is likely larger than the one that frequently plays both basic business models.  While there is some overlap, there's also overlap between people who play MMORPGs and those who play first-person shooters, real time strategy games, or whatever other genre you pick.

There are sites that are dedicated primarily to the "free to lose"/item mall games, and those can be a good reference for people who prefer that sort of game.  To try to make a single site cover all types of games would mean that for most players, most of the games can be dismissed out of hand.  Most people don't have a PC and a Wii and a Playstation 3 and an Xbox 360 all at once.  Most gamers aren't simultaneously interested in MMORPGs, first person shooters, real time strategy games, console platform games, console sports games, turn based strategy games, casual card games (e.g., solitaire or freecell), and every other type of game out there.  Someone who is looking for a particular type of game and goes to a site that tries to cover everything will have to wade through a lot more stuff he isn't looking for to find what he is.

beauturkey

Mabinogi Correspondent

Joined: 7/19/04
Posts: 280

www.
spouseaggro
.com

4/27/09 11:58:16 PM#11

 "Win or Lose?"

 There is no winning or losing. None of these MMO's, even the PvP ones, are a competition. You are not booted from the game if you die. In fact, you do not die, you just respawn with different results, depending on the game.

 GIve me some examples of a game that has such specific goals that you are forced to either "win or lose." Notice that most MMO's have quite a few goals, and provide enough flexibility to allow a player to play however they want. 

 You can name me the most competitive area of a typical MMO (raiding) as an example of someone "winning" or "losing." But how would you define who won or not? You could say that the first to get a certain piece of gear could win, but the other player could get that same piece of gear. Not a single MMO has a system that only allows for one copy of any piece of gear. There are as many copies as players that want it.

 Beau

 

 

 

Listen to the Spouse Aggro podcast at spouseaggro.com. Twitter: spouseaggro

Falcon2K

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/14/04
Posts: 36

4/28/09 12:25:24 AM#12
Originally posted by beauturkey    

 "Win or Lose?"

 There is no winning or losing. None of these MMO's, even the PvP ones, are a competition. You are not booted from the game if you die. In fact, you do not die, you just respawn with different results, depending on the game.

...

 

So baseball, soccer or football are not competitive because noone dies in the act of playing?

Without the competition there would simply be no PvP because the goal is to defeat the opponent and to achieve a higher rank/better gear/etc. as someone else, simple as that.

You might not be interested in compairing to someone else in an MMO but F2P games highly base their business model on the human fault of wishing to be superior. Without enough people thinking that way, these games simply wouldn't exist.

And it is not restricted to the PvP aspect. Especially the younger customers feel forced to have more pets, shinier armor etc. leading to pervertism of spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars a year for an MMO.

zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 2087

4/28/09 2:05:39 AM#13
Originally posted by beauturkey

 "Win or Lose?"

 There is no winning or losing. None of these MMO's, even the PvP ones, are a competition. You are not booted from the game if you die. In fact, you do not die, you just respawn with different results, depending on the game.

 GIve me some examples of a game that has such specific goals that you are forced to either "win or lose." Notice that most MMO's have quite a few goals, and provide enough flexibility to allow a player to play however they want. 

 You can name me the most competitive area of a typical MMO (raiding) as an example of someone "winning" or "losing." But how would you define who won or not? You could say that the first to get a certain piece of gear could win, but the other player could get that same piece of gear. Not a single MMO has a system that only allows for one copy of any piece of gear. There are as many copies as players that want it.

 Beau

 

 

 


 

That's a bit disingenuous. The only thing that can be won or lost in any game is the time it takes to play. The better you play the quicker you achieve your goals.  Even the best of the cash shop games will beat you to death with mind numbing grind if you don't pay for cash shop items. People want to have fun they don't want to grind. So F2P developers choose between denying you competative gear unless you pay cash for it or making you grind to get said gear to try to force you to pay for it..  Because really it's all about forcing you to pay for it.The psychology makes it unattractivew so it's not going to dominate the western markets. I'd rather pay a fixed amout on a monthly basis and get a better product. Now if we can only get pay to play to deliver what we pay for.

As for a game where you can actually lose? Shadowbane. Losing a city is such a crushing blow that guilds have been known to quit en mass after losing them. There are others.

"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." ~Greys Law

Lustmord

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 439

4/28/09 2:16:50 AM#14

I only read a couple paragraphs in and lost interest.

Frankly, F2P games just aren't very good. As long as that fact holds true, I have very little interest in reading about them.

mackdawg19

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/28/07
Posts: 705

4/28/09 5:39:35 AM#15

Free2Play games will gain respect when they change their name to reflect the type of game they really are. It's that simple really. Developers behind these games know that the word free2play is just another business scheme to get people into your game to spend money. There is nothing wrong with this, but at least call it what it is. This column won't help their community and is a waste of space until they except what they really are. Plus, let's be real. There is really only maybe a handful of these games that semi try to be unique. So what is there really to talk about? More ideas to incorperate cash shops?

Isturi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 276

Sylar I believe your clock is a little off...

4/28/09 5:52:46 AM#16
Originally posted by beauturkey

 The only thing I wish people would get straight is that you indeed do NOT need to spend money to be "competitive" or to "succeed" in almost any of the F2P MMO's.

 I have found that usually the people that say that have played but a few.

 I also find it funny that people seem some kind of difference between paying for access and paying for items like mounts or potions. There is no difference. It is simply a different way to hand the game company your money.

 I said on my blog/podcast, and I'll stick by it...within two years time the F2P model will be the norm, and I can't wait. 

 

 Beau

 

 

 

I DISAGREE. because the NORM always been paying a MONTHLY fee since the launch of Ultima Online when EA set that tone. It is HARD to ARGUE the fact that BLIZZ thrives on Monthly fee's BOTTOM line people will pay for QUALITY entertainment.

mylin1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/06
Posts: 90

4/28/09 6:17:30 AM#17

I cannot (maybe will not) get over my dislike of a mode of play that allows people to get better gear/fluff because they spend more $$.  If there was a cap of say $15 dollars a month that you could spend in a cash shop f2p game or something then maybe the idea wouldnt be as unpleasant but currently it seems to me like having a "i win" button for $20 dollars a shot in a game.

 

I like the fact in subscription games if you see someone in cool armour/weapons/random gear you know you have a chance yourself if you want to work at it to get that same gear, and thats half the fun of most mmo's progressing your character from rags to riches - insert the ability to skipp that character development by purchasing gear with $ then I think you loose at least half the fun and all the sense of achievement that comes wtih questing/raiding/crafting/etc for your gear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 3410

4/28/09 6:24:20 AM#18
Originally posted by beauturkey

 "Win or Lose?"

 There is no winning or losing. None of these MMO's, even the PvP ones, are a competition. You are not booted from the game if you die. In fact, you do not die, you just respawn with different results, depending on the game.

 GIve me some examples of a game that has such specific goals that you are forced to either "win or lose." Notice that most MMO's have quite a few goals, and provide enough flexibility to allow a player to play however they want. 

 You can name me the most competitive area of a typical MMO (raiding) as an example of someone "winning" or "losing." But how would you define who won or not? You could say that the first to get a certain piece of gear could win, but the other player could get that same piece of gear. Not a single MMO has a system that only allows for one copy of any piece of gear. There are as many copies as players that want it.

 Beau

 

If you have a good time you win, otherwise you lose. That is how MMOs work.

Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 3410

4/28/09 6:34:20 AM#19
Originally posted by Isturi

I DISAGREE. because the NORM always been paying a MONTHLY fee since the launch of Ultima Online when EA set that tone. It is HARD to ARGUE the fact that BLIZZ thrives on Monthly fee's BOTTOM line people will pay for QUALITY entertainment.

 

Depends on how you mean. Blizzards old .Battlenet was supposed to have used a P2P system to but Jeff Strain said he quited unless they made it free (Jeff programmed .Battlenet, Diablo, Warcraft 3 and Guildwars).

Guildwars 2 will use a third model, same as the first GW but it is not a instanced low budget game like the first but will instead have a big open world. If it becomes a hit it will really hurt both P2P and F2P.

The bet is open, I prefer Arenanets model (which BTW Turbine used to LOTROs life time membership also), I dont mind paying up a handsome sum at start and buy an expansion pack every year. GW have sold 6 millions so the model works.

I am careful about F2P games cash shops, particulary in PvP games. Any item that changes the balance is bad, customizing options like clothes, special apperences for the avatar, furniture for player housing like in EQ2 all works fine but actual items that makes you better sucks.

You can of course do like SOE Free realms that have adds as an alternative to paying monthly fees but that might be easy to crack for pirates.

But regular monthly fees are not the only good way as a business model.

Vyeth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/07
Posts: 550

90% of the world is ignorant.. The other 10% just don''t give a fuck..

4/28/09 9:16:28 AM#20

It seems that everyone is talking about the "disadvantage" between the paying player and the free player. Don't play the game competitively until you are sure you actually WANT to compete. That's the thing, in F2P's they get you to bite the carrot by wanting to be the very best and strongest in the game.. That IS the carrot, and they are just trying to see how far you'd go to be the best.. If you'd just play the game to enjoy the world and play casually then you really have no problem enjoying the free side. On the casual side it seems the carrot always involves fluff items that change your appearance to be more "unique" and stand out.

Ultimately I feel that F2P's (especially the older generation of Diablo II clones) catered the potential "greatest warrior ever", someone who wanted to be the best, but now you say "Doesn't everyone want to be the best?", well how about if I told you that I am selling "Best Pills" in my shop for 5 bucks.. If everyone wants to be the best, wouldn't everyone be buying these best pills? Especially if one of the potential greatest warriors kills another potential greatest warrior by using the "Best Pill", obviously one of them is going to be upset and want to buy the "Best Pill" also or quit from frustration..

I never play F2P's competitively UNLESS they include factional warefare, that way your goal is to be the potential best faction which doesn't exactly single out anyone who doesn't use the cash shop and at least gives everyone including free players a shot at becomming and  being beneficial..

Jefferson81

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/08
Posts: 760

4/28/09 10:31:36 AM#21
Originally posted by beauturkey

 The only thing I wish people would get straight is that you indeed do NOT need to spend money to be "competitive" or to "succeed" in almost any of the F2P MMO's.

 I have found that usually the people that say that have played but a few.

 I also find it funny that people seem some kind of difference between paying for access and paying for items like mounts or potions. There is no difference. It is simply a different way to hand the game company your money.

 I said on my blog/podcast, and I'll stick by it...within two years time the F2P model will be the norm, and I can't wait. 

 

 Beau

 

 

 

If that would prove to be true then I would give up on online games in a heartbeat.

 

AllNewMMOSuk

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 245

4/28/09 10:35:57 AM#22

I guess it depends on what you consider the norm, I think there will be more f2p games out there but they won't have more players the the pay to play games. I hate f2p and micro transactions, I hate having to buy items in game, character slots etc. it makes me sick. I also find f2p games lack a lot of the quality of pay to play games. There is a reason the industry has always been pay to play and why you have to buy FPS and RTS games, so they can fund making them and make them good.

LogothX

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/05/09
Posts: 209

4/28/09 7:09:41 PM#23

If the F2P model becomes the norm, this genre deserves to be strung out and put to rest. I'd love to say that the genre would die; but WoW has proved far too successful for money grubbing business cretins to ignore.

onlinenow225

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/08
Posts: 392

4/28/09 7:16:01 PM#24

The idea that most F2P games are pay for gear are funny.

Some allow you to buy crafting materials to have a chance of crafting an already in game item.  You just by pass the need to farm  and buy the mats in game that is it.

Good F2P's do nothing more than speed the game up for the player that plays.

Example Increasing item drop rates and increase exp gain from mobs.
 

Bad F2P's allow players to buy their way to uberness, those are the ones to stay away from and that seems to be what everyone thinks F2P games are.

And when someone said that F2P will be the way games are done later on is 100% true.  If you guys think blizzard makes a lot of money off of WoW now, imagine for 5 bucks a player could reset a raid dungeon for a raid group after it has already been completed for the week.

This does nothing more than allow the player to get what he disires faster, it does not hand out good items.  As said before games that hand out the best gear for cash are what I consider to be broken and just complete money scams.

But the usual model of F2P is just a way to speed the game up for the player that pays.  As well as add items that make your character unique like someone else said.

zymurgeist

Elite Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 2087

4/28/09 7:47:06 PM#25
Originally posted by onlinenow225

The idea that most F2P games are pay for gear are funny.

Some allow you to buy crafting materials to have a chance of crafting an already in game item.  You just by pass the need to farm  and buy the mats in game that is it.

Good F2P's do nothing more than speed the game up for the player that plays.

Example Increasing item drop rates and increase exp gain from mobs.
 

Bad F2P's allow players to buy their way to uberness, those are the ones to stay away from and that seems to be what everyone thinks F2P games are.

And when someone said that F2P will be the way games are done later on is 100% true.  If you guys think blizzard makes a lot of money off of WoW now, imagine for 5 bucks a player could reset a raid dungeon for a raid group after it has already been completed for the week.

This does nothing more than allow the player to get what he disires faster, it does not hand out good items.  As said before games that hand out the best gear for cash are what I consider to be broken and just complete money scams.

But the usual model of F2P is just a way to speed the game up for the player that pays.  As well as add items that make your character unique like someone else said.


 

Because pay or be forced to grind is sooo much better

/sarcasm

Buying game advantages is odious to many no matter how you try to cover the smell.  A company has a vested interest in forcing you pay for the game. There's an oversaturated market for hat sort of thing but it's not free by any means and it doesn't provide enough income to properly build and maintain a first quality game.

"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." ~Greys Law

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