Originally posted by JGMIII

Like I said All Full loot or partial loot is, is a Death penalty.

No, it's a TIME penalty. Grinding out skills and gear in a game takes time, especially if you intend to be competitive at all in PvP. Getting ganked by some jackass just because you're there and having him take your stuff isn't a death penalty. It's wasted time, because all of the effort you put into getting that gear and those skills has just been wasted. After that, it becomes a game of attrition. Who can spend the most time in a day grinding out skills and gear so that they can put up with getting ganked by someone else and who can't? The ones who can are the ones that will come out on top in an FFA PvP with full loot environment.

I tell new players to think about it like a Repair bill. only difference is you know the amount of the repair bill before you get blown up and it could get expensive.

Sure. But how many people do you know who DON'T get pissed off by having to repair the same shit over and over and over and over again? If I have a busted AC unit at my house and I have to call a repairman 4 or 5 times to fix the same fraking problem, after a while I'm just going to change the AC unit and go on with my life. The time and expense of repairing the same thing over and over and over no longer becomes worth it. It's better to cut my losses and move on.

Same goes for an MMO. People don't mind PvP, just judging by the popularity of it in the genre, and by the popularity of FPS games. What they DO mind is being jacked around by people or by having their limited game time wasted because someone wants to prove how big their e-peen is by ganking them and taking their gear. After a while, they'll simply go off somewhere else and find a different game rather than put up with crap like that.

Once you get around that FFA full loot pvp is just like everything else with the exception of maybe trying not to die a little more since you may not want to pay a repair bill lol.

Well, except for the roaming bands of PK players in a clan whose sole mission in life is to repeatedly gang rape others and take what they have so they can prove their manhood. Other than that, sure. FFA PvP is just like having to constantly repair something in your house that breaks. At first, it's irritating. After a while, you just replace it and move on.

There is one game that I think has done a great job at FFA PVP full loot. That game is EVE. Every other game is a gankers dream come true. Unfortunately, I find EVE's gameplay mechanics dull. Yes, it has a great economy. No doubt about it. Sadly, most of EVE is spent on autopilot or automine. I don't find that fun. I need a little bit more action in my gaming, so I don't fall asleep at the keyboard.

Originally posted by JGMIII

I think the people that don't play these types of games are having a hardtime understanding my OP.

I'll use Eve as an example since its the FFA game im playing atm.

In Eve we have players that read about Eve's pvp, they liked the idea of FFA pvp, they thought the 0.0 Pvp sounded cool and Faction warfare seemed interesting.

So they download Eve and enjoy the game. Now these players came to the game with the intetions of actually pvping.

well instead these guys/gals decided to run missions for cash (which is smart actually) and over time they get into cooler ships and after hearing all the pvp horror stories actually become afraid of the whole concept.

I know this sounds stupid but seriously this is how things go down in Eve and is one of the reasons so many players are in high sec lol.

I have friends like this and after getting a few of them into pvp even though they were a bit afraid I figured I would come to the forums and Knudge a few interested Pvpers into the whole pvp scene by reasuring them that FFA pvp isnt the devil and its only a game and they should actually try it out.

My OP is targetting players that think FFA might be cool but their a bit afraid to try it out.

This is not a thread asking if you like Eve or FFA, this is not a thread talking about Niche mmo features and this totally isnt a thread asking what game you would rather pvp in.

 

Hopefully this clears things up if not I give lol

laterz

 

I think your the one having a hard time understanding why some people dont PvP in EvE. (Like you claim anyways).

Ill use EvE as an example (even tho I have not played it) Once I explain it maybe you will understand why I dont play it and why some dont PvP. (I have a RL friend that I work with whos tried to get me in EvE many times. Hes told me alot about it. So I am not 100% in the dark about it.)

Ok here we go. I do not find farming currency to buy ships and equipment for that ship just to have it blown up in w/e senerio you choose fun. Now Faction vs Faction may be alittle less dissapointing if I lost a ship but none the less I still dont want it blown up. Even if its insured. Now from my understanding its not to awfull hard to earn the currency in EVE, but that has no bearing on it. Because it takes TIME to farm that currency up. That TIME is easily lost.

Now I am a big grouping fan but theres just some times that I like doing stuff alone. From my understanding if your at war with someone they can attack you anywhere without concord getting involved right? That means if I am not rolling with a pack I could easily get ganked anytime by my enemy.

You may only get to play 10 hours a week and dont mind loosing your time invested, but not everybody is like you, not everybody is like me. A lot of people do not like loosing stuff that they have invested time in like you have seen in this thread. Thats what it all boils down too. Thats my guess as to why you claim some people dont leave high sec space, because they are not scared of PvP just scared of loosing their time invested into their ships.

(I hope my EVE examples are not wrong but its possible and I am sure someone will flame me to hell if I am)

I simply choose not to play games, or servers in games, that have FFA PvP. I just can't stand griefers.

I love FFA Full Loot PvP but I have always had an issue with it that never gets a real answer. People usually play these types of games for "meaningful" PvP, but if you can replace your gear so easily, it loses its meaning anyways. Skill loss would be a far more meaningful system then full loot in my book. Long live WO...

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by demalus

 In order for FFA pvp full loot to work, the world needs to be COMPLETE.

 

There needs to be killers, murderers, avengers, innocent bystanders, etc.  An all PvP game is dumb because it won't be as good as an FPS.  An all PvE game is dumb because it won't be as good as a single player game.  The sweet spot right in the middle is where MMOs thrive.

 

huh? My OP isn't about FFA working or a game being complete or Pvp and Pve synergy.

My OP is about people who like the idea of FFA pvp but are afraid to participate.

Did you read my OP?

I think your OP was OP.

Originally posted by liddokun

Then there's the attitude. PvP game community tend to have more (let's just say) "aggressive" attitude and game outlook. Not saying that everyone who enjoys pvp are assholes but PvP oriented games tend to attract a higher than average jerks per square inch.

Your post made me wonder about one thing.

What do you would happen if: A normal PvE server in WoW. Peaktime, people are having fun as usual. Suddenly a message pop ups on the screen "This server is from now FFAPvP and FULL LOOT, if you logout the character will stay in the world for two minutes,  thank you"  How do you think the WoW community would act?

Would everyone just continue to to PvE and have fun, or would some begin to PK other to get thier gear?

I ask this because im really interested. Would there be such a difference between this community and a "PvP" community? Would there be a lower average of jerks per square inch or not?

There's a reason people role pve servers. They want to avoid that type of aggressive attitude at all cost.

Originally posted by daarco

What do you would happen if: A normal PvE server in WoW. Peaktime, people are having fun as usual. Suddenly a message pop ups on the screen "This server is from now FFAPvP and FULL LOOT, if you logout the character will stay in the world for two minutes,  thank you"  How do you think the WoW community would act?

Would everyone just continue to to PvE and have fun, or would some begin to PK other to get thier gear?

If Blizzard did that to a PvE server wtihout warning, the flame war that it would ignite would be epic. I think  it's fair to say that a majority of people that would be online when that message popped up would be pissed off that their server was changed right under their noses, and they'd demand transfers to another PvE server. There might be a few people who start to PK, but most would simply want to leave, or would demand that Blizzard change it back to the way it was.

FFA PvP full looting has never been done right...is full of holes/bugs/things people whine about for days...

/fail so far....get it right and then we can talk about "afraid"

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Originally posted by daarco
What do you would happen if: A normal PvE server in WoW. Peaktime, people are having fun as usual. Suddenly a message pop ups on the screen "This server is from now FFAPvP and FULL LOOT, if you logout the character will stay in the world for two minutes,  thank you"  How do you think the WoW community would act?

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I take it as axiomatic that there is a greater concentration of PvP enthusiasts in PvP games than can be found in PvE games. I also take it as axiomatic that PvE enthusiasts don't have a Mr. Hyde personality roiling beneath the surface, waiting for an opportunity to do unto his fellow man before his fellow man can do unto him. Carebears are really, truly carebears, including yours truly.

So if the changeover were to suddenly take place, some portion of the PvP enthusiasts who happen to play on a PvE server would gleefully start wiping the floor with the target rich environment that they find themselves in. Temporarily at least, anti-PK groups would form from the PvP enthusiasts who see them as generally outnumbering the folks who are exploiting carebear land. In time, the server would simply restabilize as a standard PvP server, with almost all of the PvE players cancelling their subscriptions. Some small percentage would stay, finding that they actually like FFA PvP.

Naturally, it would be a disaster for Blizzard customer relations over the long run.

Originally posted by JB47394

 

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Originally posted by daarco
What do you would happen if: A normal PvE server in WoW. Peaktime, people are having fun as usual. Suddenly a message pop ups on the screen "This server is from now FFAPvP and FULL LOOT, if you logout the character will stay in the world for two minutes,  thank you"  How do you think the WoW community would act?

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I take it as axiomatic that there is a greater concentration of PvP enthusiasts in PvP games than can be found in PvE games. I also take it as axiomatic that PvE enthusiasts don't have a Mr. Hyde personality roiling beneath the surface, waiting for an opportunity to do unto his fellow man before his fellow man can do unto him. Carebears are really, truly carebears, including yours truly.

So if the changeover were to suddenly take place, some portion of the PvP enthusiasts who happen to play on a PvE server would gleefully start wiping the floor with the target rich environment that they find themselves in. Temporarily at least, anti-PK groups would form from the PvP enthusiasts who see them as generally outnumbering the folks who are exploiting carebear land. In time, the server would simply restabilize as a standard PvP server, with almost all of the PvE players cancelling their subscriptions. Some small percentage would stay, finding that they actually like FFA PvP.

Naturally, it would be a disaster for Blizzard customer relations over the long run.

This is just a mind experiment. We dont need to talk about Blizzards custom support. I was only wondrring if a PvE player would attack someone if the right opportunity come along?

Originally posted by JGMIII

I've been running into this alot lately in Eve and I used to run into this in UO also.

I would get a long list of buddies then later find out that over half of them were just straight up too scared to venture into FFA areas.

It's only a videogame guys, please take advantage of a game and its FFApvp mechanic.

[b]I can understand if you dont like FFApvp[/b] thats not what this is about.

Im talking about the players that play these games and stay in a safe area all day... forever.

In Eve these guys either stay in high sec space 100% or pay rent to some 0.0 alliance and are basically even safer in this area of the game then the high sec guys.

[b]They all miss out on so much of the game by doing this, it kills me.[/b]

When my very own buddies do this it kills me even more.

last week I let a friend use my Alt account to come with me to low sec and mess a few people up (or try LOL!)

Since that day he's been skilling up his main for Frig pvp in low sec and thanks me everytime he sees me.

Basically saying "Bro, If it wasn't for you I would be running  missions forever like a pussy".

Guys please stop being afraid and this just doesnt go for Eve this goes for any game with some type of risky pvp.

We have a few games coming out soon that will use this FFA mechanic how are you going to take advantage of these new games if your too afraid to experience the best parts???

 

And again im talking about the people that play these games and actually like the idea of FFA but are too afraid to lose gear and money Not the guys that hate pvp and dont think pvp with risk is fun.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

so... you understand they don't like it, but think they should do it anyway?

Some people play pvp games just to play the same game/server/whatever as friends. they may not like every aspect of that. I've been in that case many times myself, playing on open pvp servers for games rather than my preference of a pve server, just because of where my friends are playing. If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to do it, simple as that.

Originally posted by daarco

This is just a mind experiment. We dont need to talk about Blizzards custom support. I was only wondrring if a PvE player would attack someone if the right opportunity come along?

Yes, they will in a heart beat. These are the dreaded anti-PKs who will mercilessly gank and grief a PKer in an attempt to make them stop playing all the while proclaiming they do it for the good of the game. The real honest to goodness carebears are actually pretty rare and extremely undrevalued. Games that protect their carebears are usually much more new player friendly.  

The only good ffa pvp had lineage 2 with his karma system u had to have balls actually to crazy and kill everything. FFA PVP with no death penalty & co like in AoC sucks.

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by 0theri0n

I just dont wanna invest hours apon hours into a game and then have everything taken away by someone else. It would make me mad and quit. Life is stressful enough why would i want the same in a game? Its about having fun and relaxing, not stressing out about having to regain all of my gear. I love pvp but not when it affects the mood of a game. Pvp is better when it adds to the quality and makes it enjoyable.

 

With a GOOD full loot system, whis isn't really an issue. Your stuff isn't your character...it's just cheap, replacable gear. Spend your "hours" improving your skills, and stockpiling gold / resources.

BANK OFTEN.

Then when you DO get rolled, it's no big deal, and it DOES add to the quality of the game....tension, excitement, a bit of fear. And the anticipation of what that guy you're about to kill might drop.

So what exactly is the point of full loot, in that case? If everything is replacable and cheap? You know you'll just find junk when you loot people. Might as well not have full loot at all.

It seems to me the only thing full loot pvp does is breed dispise and hate. You are practically taunting the guy you just killed by looting his corpse.

I really have nothing against PvP. I do participate sometimes in controlled pvp battles. The reason I don't delve any deeper into it is because of the people and mentality that pvp spawns.

Actually you are supposed to be afraid and fear dying with a ruleset like this.

The whole point of real consequences for dying is to enhance the immersion factor,  give meaning to dying so you respect the environment, heighten the overall game experience, and avoid behaving stupidly.

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Originally posted by daarco
This is just a mind experiment. We dont need to talk about Blizzards custom support. I was only wondrring if a PvE player would attack someone if the right opportunity come along?

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Yes, I understand that it is a thought experiment. Mentioning customer relations was my way of underscoring the fact that the majority of players would be so uninterested in engaging in PvP (whether PK or anti-PK) that it would be a disaster for Blizzard.

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Originally posted by zymurgeist
Yes, they will in a heart beat. These are the dreaded anti-PKs who will mercilessly gank and grief a PKer in an attempt to make them stop playing all the while proclaiming they do it for the good of the game. The real honest to goodness carebears are actually pretty rare and extremely undrevalued. Games that protect their carebears are usually much more new player friendly.

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Then I must be one of those rare carebears. The developers of Ultima Online were assuming that the majority of players would be anti-PK and act on that preference, ensuring an ordered society. In practice, the majority just went elsewhere; they ended up playing a PvE game called EverQuest, where the PKers are kept at bay by the game itself. Where it failed, players clamored for alterations to the game systems.

I returned my copy of Ultima Online for a refund even without knowing about EverQuest. The idea that I would be structuring my gameplay around avoiding, defending against, or chasing down PKers was laughable.

As with everything those who whine/cry the most get what they want. If a game is released and already has PVP elements built in thats fine. Its when the game is infiltrated by players who want it changed and they think they are speaking in the majority I have a problem with. I guess the needs of a few outweigh the needs of many. If a group of players can come into a game and scare developers into thinking they will lose money or players I guess the devs better cave in and give them what they want.

You my friend are good. Such a well written and verbilized post has allowed me to overcome my rediculous fear of Falling Footstools and Pidgeons Vollying for Power. Still a little afraid of players looting me...but..hey...hate the game...not the Player...right ?