Originally posted by toord

The innovation comes where, yes you have a "hotbar" but how many of those "hotbar" games require you to manage your resources in this way WHILE manually aiming...

Many games offer this capability. While I personally like TCoS combat system, I would hardly call it innovative. Every non-queue combat game out there (DDO, AoC, Tabula, DF, etc.) needs the player to actively target and set their hotbars at optimum. Every action/skill has a cool down, you need to be aiming at your target AND within striking distance. So it's not something earth shattering. Again, I think it's a neat way of thinking in terms of strategy and combat I just don't think anyone who has played non-que games would be blown away.

 

[...]

None of these games have the resource management seen in spellborn. Every battle is a new battle. Armor is a non factor and there are no pre-fight BUFFS that would or could change the battle before the battle has begun. This insures that every battle requires the that the player put forth every bit of effort for each one..

Again, many other games have this very system. Armor matters. Every encounter slightly different. Yet you troll around and all you see is people in mouse-look mode running in circles around monsters and "spamming" damage skills until the mob is dead. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

[...]

 

Edit: I garuntee you that you couldn't hold the mouse button and win every battle with those same few attacks in the same rotation.. I garuntee you that it is alot more "complex" than that..

 

See above. If you haven't seen all the people doin' the run aroun' and killing every mob in their way using the same tactic, you haven't been LOOKING.

 

Replies in GREEN.

 

Now ... am I saying that this game is a clone or a waste of time? Absolutely not. It's a fun, story-driven game with solid combat system. And yes, you SHOULD definitely try it. But I don't think it's the end-all, last word in the MMO world as some of its fanbois would assert.

 

Peace.

Yea, sure.. Im a "fanboi" but your last reply.. So I suppose you've seen EVERYONE doing that eh? What level were you? Oh yeah, I forgot you subbed and fought some of the later (non nubish introductory) battles that await..

But we won't go into details, it will just be a back and forth mish mash of nonsense, but to leave it short and simple..

It is not as easy as you seem to make it. Nor did I say it was the "end-all".. You MMORPG folk are so hung up on "the next best thing" that every compliment people give new games has to be "the end-all" praise that many of you would prefer to see of new games. it is not the best game (if there is ever such a thing) but it does deserve a little more credit than so me of you "haters" err excuse me "Haterz" are giving it.

The game is simply amazing and the combat has me hooked.

So many people saying how the skill deck isn't innovative and how its the same as hot bars as you would be casting skills in a specific order anyhow.... well in PVP your not going to just be casting the same 5 moves over and over. Your going to be constantly doing different skills and if you miss or cast the wrong skill guess what you will have to wait for your skill deck to do a complete rotation unless you have that skill on another tier. Where as hot bars you could simply use that move right away.

Also I do not know if the critics have reached level 11 when Combo openers are introduced. This adds a huge level of depth to the combat as these openers give huge boosts to your character (damage modifiers, heals, damage to attackers etc). There is a downside however and the downside is if you miss a skill after using an opener, your opener effect goes bye bye.

So when you combine the skill deck with openers and finishers and your trying to keep your Combo's flowing while trying to figure out what class the guy attacking you is and exactly what strategy you should adopt that is what makes the whole Spellborn package innovative.

Originally posted by WisebutCruel

There is nothing "innovative" about TCoS combat skills.
 

I have a hotbar in every mmo I play. TCoS "skilldeck" is a hotbar with a graphical rotation gimmick added.

I place the skills on my hotbar in the optimal firing order on my hotbar. TCoS, as you just plainly explained, is the same.

I make a macro to fire off my skills in succession. TCoS lets you hold down the mouse button to do the exact same thing. perhaps convenient, but hardly innovative.

In case you haven't noticed Tabula Rasa, AoC, and even Dorkfail have twitch based combat. Dorkfail even has manual aiming.

So tell us again how the combat is "innovative"?

The best thing to do is not try to play the "the game is much more complex than any other game so obviously you don't understand how to play" card. It's one of those "desperation arguments" players throw out when they can't think of anything better. It never works in other games' defence, and it won't work in the case of TCoS either.

You completely forgot to mention manual dodging and the great enemy AI. All contribute to the combat system in TCoS. This game is obviously not "WoW with a tumbler" as you make it out to be.

Its also interesting how you downplay the role of the tumbler. Its more complex than simply creating each rotation without considering many different factors. You have to consider the end of a rotation and where it leaves you in the other rotations. You need to account for abilities that you may need to have available in more than one place in one rotation. Those are just a couple very simple examples of why the tumbler does more than provide a firing order. Things get much more complex in practice, which I don't think you have much of.

I think I will play that "I don't think you understand" card because I really think its true.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by WisebutCruel

There is nothing "innovative" about TCoS combat skills.
 

I have a hotbar in every mmo I play. TCoS "skilldeck" is a hotbar with a graphical rotation gimmick added.

I place the skills on my hotbar in the optimal firing order on my hotbar. TCoS, as you just plainly explained, is the same.

I make a macro to fire off my skills in succession. TCoS lets you hold down the mouse button to do the exact same thing. perhaps convenient, but hardly innovative.

In case you haven't noticed Tabula Rasa, AoC, and even Dorkfail have twitch based combat. Dorkfail even has manual aiming.

So tell us again how the combat is "innovative"?

The best thing to do is not try to play the "the game is much more complex than any other game so obviously you don't understand how to play" card. It's one of those "desperation arguments" players throw out when they can't think of anything better. It never works in other games' defence, and it won't work in the case of TCoS either.

 

You completely forgot to mention manual dodging and the great enemy AI. All contribute to the combat system in TCoS. This game is obviously not "WoW with a tumbler" as you make it out to be.

Its also interesting how you downplay the role of the tumbler. Its more complex than simply creating each rotation without considering many different factors. You have to consider the end of a rotation and where it leaves you in the other rotations. You need to account for abilities that you may need to have available in more than one place in one rotation. Those are just a couple very simple examples of why the tumbler does more than provide a firing order. Things get much more complex in practice, which I don't think you have much of.

I think I will play that "I don't think you understand" card because I really think its true.

Hitting ctrl + 1-2-3-4, etc. in other mmos gives me a new hotbar which I have filled with different skills for different situations. So basically you've just described the skilldeck as a gimped version of the multi-hotbar setup found in other games. It has nothing to do with my not understanding, it has to do with people like yourself trying to make the skilldeck anything more than it is.
 

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by Emeraq

The combat system was clickety click click, click, click,  jump behind your enemy, click click click, dance around your enemy, click click click... I think I got carpal tunnel playing it to level 7. :)

 

LOL! You know that you can just hold the mouse button down, right? It will select the next ability in the tumbler when its ready. At least learn how to play before you complain.

At least recognize the humor before you respond. :)

Originally posted by Vosen

Originally posted by Emeraq

I was able to play this game in January on the German servers and it wasn't my cup of tea. In my opinion, it didn't offer anything that Diablo 2, Sacred or Sacred 2 couldn't give you with their multiplay options.

The game didn't seem like your typical MMO, you could only play till level 7 for free and then had to subscribe. I saw nothing in the way of crafting, and if I remember right they weren't going to add anything in the way of traditional skill point based crafting. The combat system was clickety click click, click, click,  jump behind your enemy, click click click, dance around your enemy, click click click... I think I got carpal tunnel playing it to level 7. :)

I just didn't like it, wasn't an MMO to me, was more Diablo 2 reinvented for a larger player base.

 

This description is laughable at best. Obviously by level 7 you're no closer to understanding the innovative combat system than at level 1. This is something they are working on and are going to up the level limit on the free trial. You have more slots available than you do skills and this is obviously not what the system is about. As the game progresses you have more skills than slots and actually have to put some thought into what goes where.

A very basic example would be: I have a spell heals anyone who hits the mob with a melee attack and I have a melee skill that hits 3 times in quick succession. To get the most of these two abilities you would cast the heal first so when you fire off the melee ability you get healed 3 times. If you put them the other way round then the heal may have expired by the time the melee ability comes round again.

The difference between a well setup skill deck and a poor one decides the outcome of the battle which makes PVP very interesting.

The combat system in TCoS is more interactive than AoC which is also very good. Your description is WAY off and reads like most other MMOs out there. (WoW, WAR etc). The combat system is NOTHING like that. You also forgot to mention the active dodging in combat and that you actually have to AIM your abilities. It is FAR more than just a "click fest".

There is also crafting in this game, although I will admit it is fairly basic and similar to WoW for example. You get broken items, take it to an NPC and he/she will give you a recipe to fix it. You gather the required materials throughout the world and complete the recipe to craft the item.

The combat portion of the post was for humor sake, hence the carpal tunnel and :)

As for the rest, my point on the game is that if it doesn't catch you by level 7, then why pay to play beyond level 7? I didn't like what i tried of it, so I'm not going to pay to play it on a whim that it might get better and hook me later one.

Originally posted by Moon-Daddy 

WoW gave a free month when it was released to players

To get the "free" month in WoW, you had to pay $50 plus shipping and tax to buy a box.  That doesn't sound terribly "free" to me.  To get the free two weeks in The Chronicles of Spellborn, you pay $0.

Love this game! I really like the combat system and the lore is great. I recomment it to everyone :)

I decided to give this game a try.  Unfortunately the game didn't want to give me a try.  After fighting with it minimally(because I'm tired of putting up with crappy launch products) I tried some of the fixes that didn't fix anything.

Then I posted on their boards that I was done trying to play their game(I didn't go on a rant) and they locked my thread.

What a charming little game experience.  Hope this game crashes and burns.

Good... If you're not able to install a game, we don't need you asking dumb questions on the zone channels later...

I know it is way too late to speak my piece,but i will have to disagree totally on the combat system.I actually mentioned how bad it was during beta ,so i'm not really too late,however i knew already then it was a design they would never change.

The skill deck is not only a hinderance but it does not allow the player total freedom to do what they want with their player.All it does is act like an innefficient hotbar and force players to try and remember where they put each skill,not a brilliant idea by any stretch.

The rest of the game was ok,the AI acted pretty much newish but after awhile it was always the same,quite predictable.I don't like moving combat so much, actually not at all in a MMORPG because it makes for non controlled combat ,more of a chaotic type play.The mob running after certain damage inflicted seemed to be pretty much automatic also ,witch became old after a while.I also do not like dodging,moving combat unless there is weapons to facilitate each type of combat and the surroundings have to be suited to moving combat.Standing in a wide open field does nothing for moving combat,there is no thinking involved ,no strategy,just a matter of holding your aim steadfast.

What i did like about it was the fact there was some realism in that you could jump on a rock to escape a critter that could not navigate it.It seemed like all the mobs had a certain area they were confined too,once they crossed that threashold they returned to their spot again, that part i did not like,because it feels more like a program than gameplay.

TCOS tried to do a few things differently,but IMO they chose the wrong ideas.The areas were ok to challenge because AI and combat are two areas that can always be looked at,but they just failed IMO and made it worse instead of more exciting.AI however is a VERY tricky part of a game to try and perfect,i think all games have a long way to go there.

Originally posted by Wizardry

I know it is way too late to speak my piece,but i will have to disagree totally on the combat system.I actually mentioned how bad it was during beta ,so i'm not really too late,however i knew already then it was a design they would never change.

The skill deck is not only a hinderance but it does not allow the player total freedom to do what they want with their player.All it does is act like an innefficient hotbar and force players to try and remember where they put each skill,not a brilliant idea by any stretch.

The rest of the game was ok,the AI acted pretty much newish but after awhile it was always the same,quite predictable.I don't like moving combat so much, actually not at all in a MMORPG because it makes for non controlled combat ,more of a chaotic type play.The mob running after certain damage inflicted seemed to be pretty much automatic also ,witch became old after a while.I also do not like dodging,moving combat unless there is weapons to facilitate each type of combat and the surroundings have to be suited to moving combat.Standing in a wide open field does nothing for moving combat,there is no thinking involved ,no strategy,just a matter of holding your aim steadfast.

What i did like about it was the fact there was some realism in that you could jump on a rock to escape a critter that could not navigate it.It seemed like all the mobs had a certain area they were confined too,once they crossed that threashold they returned to their spot again, that part i did not like,because it feels more like a program than gameplay.

TCOS tried to do a few things differently,but IMO they chose the wrong ideas.The areas were ok to challenge because AI and combat are two areas that can always be looked at,but they just failed IMO and made it worse instead of more exciting.AI however is a VERY tricky part of a game to try and perfect,i think all games have a long way to go there.

lol.. You don't like moving combat? lol..

So the participants in combat ( a battle to the death) shouyld just stand still and take pre-determined whacks at each other until one dies? lol.. yeah that sounds really fun and doesn't break immersion at all..

blasphemy... :-)

Originally posted by Graphyt

Good... If you're not able to install a game, we don't need you asking dumb questions on the zone channels later...

I chuckled but then I saw that this is your first post and realized you must know all about being dumb.

Yes sir, first and probably last post on this forum. I was eager to see what was said about this game on this site, and was amazed to see the number of "haterz" who had something to say without even trying it... acting like what they think has any value. Anyone having played a few MMOs knows you can't make up your mind about a game before lvl 15/20, so please spare us the "don't  play it because it's not innovative" or "I can't install so it's worth nothing". Be a good boy and try it (or not if you can't manage the install ^^) and if you have nothing more to say than "I like it" or "I don't like it", well... tell your ma and that'll be enough ^^

Btw i always like a good post that says why

ps. i just realized you only have 20 posts, and i waste my time writing an answer... pfff  /sarcasm off