Originally posted by Signe

Why would WoW suddenly drop 5 million players next year?  I'm not getting your point? 

I don't know how Aion will do in the US and Europe, but it's doing pretty well in Asia and there seemed to be loads of people running around the Chinese beta test.  Free Realms might do okay since it's a very pretty mini-game MMO geared towards the 8 - 12 year old crowd.  I don't even understand why people are calling it a WoW clone. Maybe because it's colourful and rather cartoonish looking?  When the family pricing is introduced, I think it could be a big hit.  Quite a lot of people I know with kids are looking forward to it.  As for the others, who knows?  I wouldn't think they'd do particularly well if you are comparing them to WoW numbers. But do they really need to be that big to be successful? 

PS  Champions Online looks JUST like CoH to me.  Seriously.  Not that I won't give it a go, I enjoyed CoH/V.  Just sayin'.

He is saying WoW will lose 5m subs to Aion in china.

Originally posted by Signe

Why would WoW suddenly drop 5 million players next year?  I'm not getting your point? 

I don't know how Aion will do in the US and Europe, but it's doing pretty well in Asia and there seemed to be loads of people running around the Chinese beta test.  Free Realms might do okay since it's a very pretty mini-game MMO geared towards the 8 - 12 year old crowd.  I don't even understand why people are calling it a WoW clone. Maybe because it's colourful and rather cartoonish looking?  When the family pricing is introduced, I think it could be a big hit.  Quite a lot of people I know with kids are looking forward to it.  As for the others, who knows?  I wouldn't think they'd do particularly well if you are comparing them to WoW numbers. But do they really need to be that big to be successful? 

PS  Champions Online looks JUST like CoH to me.  Seriously.  Not that I won't give it a go, I enjoyed CoH/V.  Just sayin'.

No, they don't. There is just a tendency for the loud and uneducated to state that if it doesn't hit WoW numbers it's a "fail". That and every new game that is announced one of the first few questions they ask themselves in "evaluation" is does it look like a "wow-killer".

People who have a realistic view of the MMO market know that the alignment of the moon and stars and polished gameplay isn't likely to ever happen again as it did with WoW thus making it a merit-less measuring stick. Less than 100K subscriptions and games tend to close down. More than that and they tend to stay open. Continuing to stay open and make a profit is a success. Call it niche or any other derogatory (as that word has come to mean in MMO jargon) you may, but making a profit and staying open is a success.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Signe

Why would WoW suddenly drop 5 million players next year?  I'm not getting your point? 

I don't know how Aion will do in the US and Europe, but it's doing pretty well in Asia and there seemed to be loads of people running around the Chinese beta test.  Free Realms might do okay since it's a very pretty mini-game MMO geared towards the 8 - 12 year old crowd.  I don't even understand why people are calling it a WoW clone. Maybe because it's colourful and rather cartoonish looking?  When the family pricing is introduced, I think it could be a big hit.  Quite a lot of people I know with kids are looking forward to it.  As for the others, who knows?  I wouldn't think they'd do particularly well if you are comparing them to WoW numbers. But do they really need to be that big to be successful? 

PS  Champions Online looks JUST like CoH to me.  Seriously.  Not that I won't give it a go, I enjoyed CoH/V.  Just sayin'.

 

No, they don't. There is just a tendency for the loud and uneducated to state that if it doesn't hit WoW numbers it's a "fail". That and every new game that is announced one of the first few questions they ask themselves in "evaluation" is does it look like a "wow-killer".

People who have a realistic view of the MMO market know that the alignment of the moon and stars and polished gameplay isn't likely to ever happen again as it did with WoW thus making it a merit-less measuring stick. Less than 100K subscriptions and games tend to close down. More than that and they tend to stay open. Continuing to stay open and make a profit is a success. Call it niche or any other derogatory (as that word has come to mean in MMO jargon) you may, but making a profit and staying open is a success.

WoW was not polished in the beginning, it took several months for it to become polished.

WoW was not polished in the beginning, it took several months for it to become polished.

It was polished enough where it mattered.  When it released it was more polished then previous MMORPGs I played and those had months of time to polish their content.  Plus the lack of polish was primary in the end game stuff which did not matter to the average player because it took them many months to get to it by which time it was fixed. 

Originally posted by Torik

WoW was not polished in the beginning, it took several months for it to become polished.

 

It was polished enough where it mattered.  When it released it was more polished then previous MMORPGs I played and those had months of time to polish their content.  Plus the lack of polish was primary in the end game stuff which did not matter to the average player because it took them many months to get to it by which time it was fixed. 

 

I do not know when you started playing but I was in beta.... At release the servers would not stay online for long, the queues, tons of bugs still in game even in the newbie lands... Do you remember the 2 to 3 weeks of a new patch every other day?  I do.

Sure it was more polished then other games but it was no "polished".

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Torik

WoW was not polished in the beginning, it took several months for it to become polished.

 

It was polished enough where it mattered.  When it released it was more polished then previous MMORPGs I played and those had months of time to polish their content.  Plus the lack of polish was primary in the end game stuff which did not matter to the average player because it took them many months to get to it by which time it was fixed. 

 

 

I do not know when you started playing but I was in beta.... At release the servers would not stay online for long, the queues, tons of bugs still in game even in the newbie lands... Do you remember the 2 to 3 weeks of a new patch every other day?  I do.

Sure it was more polished then other games but it was no "polished".

I was in Open Beta and got my copy on release day.  Servers seemed rather stable and I do not remember them crashing much.  We did not get queues until months after release.  The most severe bug I remember from the dwarf starting area was the loot bug where the character would get stuck in the looting animation for a while.  That cleared up after a while when they upgraded their database code.  Overall I had a very pleasant experience with some glitches but nothing groundbreaking.  It was a much smoother play experience than when I joined SWG and EVE months after those games were released.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Signe

Why would WoW suddenly drop 5 million players next year?  I'm not getting your point? 

I don't know how Aion will do in the US and Europe, but it's doing pretty well in Asia and there seemed to be loads of people running around the Chinese beta test.  Free Realms might do okay since it's a very pretty mini-game MMO geared towards the 8 - 12 year old crowd.  I don't even understand why people are calling it a WoW clone. Maybe because it's colourful and rather cartoonish looking?  When the family pricing is introduced, I think it could be a big hit.  Quite a lot of people I know with kids are looking forward to it.  As for the others, who knows?  I wouldn't think they'd do particularly well if you are comparing them to WoW numbers. But do they really need to be that big to be successful? 

PS  Champions Online looks JUST like CoH to me.  Seriously.  Not that I won't give it a go, I enjoyed CoH/V.  Just sayin'.

He is saying WoW will lose 5m subs to Aion in china.

in asia.

and it will. mark my words. there is no way on earth that asian players stick to WoW with Aion around. and the vast majority of them cant/wont pay for 2 games

Nothing will kill WoW until Blizzard releases their new mmo. Then that game will rule and everyone will try and copy it. 

You should do more research, there is one MMORPG which will revolutionise the market,

MechScape, it has been in development for 3 years and the guys over at Jagex are still developing it.

They stated that this one won't even compare to how MMO's are played and that no MMORPG will ever compare to it.

As they have done they research and know what will work and what players really want.

The game was scheduled for release in 2009 but this date is still uncertain as they are doing everything for the game to be as perfect as it can be at release.

Jagex being mainly a private company they don't really care about profit as much, dedicating the resources which MechScape will need in order for the product to be fully completed.

They won't be releasing anything about it until the game will go in Beta, they are pretty strict regarding their security policy and leaking 3 years worth of ideas put in to practice won't do them any good.

WoW was alittle rough in release, but nothing like EvE or SWG.  SWG was brought down daily for a while so the servers wouldn't melt (before they did this, it crashed every 2 days).  EvE, I rememmber a few server problems, but wasn't TOO bad.  CoH had group gathering/superspeed issues during Beta that continued through early release.  LOTRO release was very, very smooth.  

OP has no idea what he's talking about.

Aion IS going to be the best MMO release of 2009/2010. Everything I've seen or read about this game points to pure WIN.

Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

I dont think these game need to be largely innovative really, just a new thing here or there mixed with the mmo stuff we know people like and have been very successful.

Innovation is way over-rated. It is about execution and implementation. A few gimmick ideas wont work and wont make a fun game.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

I dont think these game need to be largely innovative really, just a new thing here or there mixed with the mmo stuff we know people like and have been very successful.

 

Innovation is way over-rated. It is about execution and implementation. A few gimmick ideas wont work and wont make a fun game.

Couldn't agree more. Take Age of Conan (when it was first released) for example. Innovative combat system, but the bugs etc brought the game down.

Originally posted by Snoutimus

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

I dont think these game need to be largely innovative really, just a new thing here or there mixed with the mmo stuff we know people like and have been very successful.

 

Innovation is way over-rated. It is about execution and implementation. A few gimmick ideas wont work and wont make a fun game.

 

Couldn't agree more. Take Age of Conan (when it was first released) for example. Innovative combat system, but the bugs etc brought the game down.

Absolutely. I DO want to see new things, but I want to see new things that work. I don't want a whole game thats so comopletly different and buggy that we have to have a whole discussion here on MMORPG.COM as to whether or not the game is an MMORPG or an MMOFPS or etc etc. IMO the community of any particular game is what makes or breaks it for me. I LOVE LotRO. The people in it however dont seem to want to group beyond the first coupla quests and the group breaks up. Im used to grouping with the same people for hours and having the chance to get to know them (coming from EQ2). That being said if the game is full of bugs because the devs stretched too far to be different theres no point.

Originally posted by Torik

WoW was not polished in the beginning, it took several months for it to become polished.

 

It was polished enough where it mattered.  When it released it was more polished then previous MMORPGs I played and those had months of time to polish their content.  Plus the lack of polish was primary in the end game stuff which did not matter to the average player because it took them many months to get to it by which time it was fixed. 

 

I agree, it was pretty polished on release.

It had it's issues, especially server issues, but that seemed understandable given how many people were flocking to it.

I think what ppl are forgetting is that innovation tends to be a slow process, a gradual process.

Originally posted by Jackio81

I think what ppl are forgetting is that innovation tends to be a slow process, a gradual process.

Not at all, I agree. I just think that their rush to be innovative screws us sometimes. HOWEVER sometimes it works wonderfully. SWG before all the crap, was pretty different game when it came to leveling your character I thought that worked pretty well just as an (albeit lame) example.

Originally posted by Milky

Champions Online

Aion

Free Realms

Star Trek Online

DC Universe

and just about every other MMORPG coming out in 2009/2010

None of these games will bring anything new or truly innovative to the table.  All "been there, done that".

I don't mean to sound like a fanboy, but why are people always bashing Champions Online and always saying it's "nothing new"? From what I've read, it sounds like the game has a pretty innovative combat system.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Aion = success with great reviews and well over 2mill strong playing. I wouldn't call that a failure.

Well how many millions of people supported hitler, was that a sucess? Lol I know you loved my analogy dont lie.

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Originally posted by Milky

Champions Online

Aion

Free Realms

Star Trek Online

DC Universe

and just about every other MMORPG coming out in 2009/2010

None of these games will bring anything new or truly innovative to the table.  All "been there, done that".

Like this thread.  Been there, done that.

 

Like this response. been there. done that. I like it when people try to act 'cool' over the interwebz with their pwning of people with their e-intelligentz, gives me somthing to make fun of my self. =)

Originally posted by grndzro

I'm 100% positive Square Enix's "Rapture" will be awesome, mabye even a wowkiller.

I hope its not even close to a wow killer. A wow killer will be another easy mode game. I dont think SE is going for that market. I will say it will be on par with what FFXI is about.(atleast thats what I am hoping for)

Originally posted by Unive

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Aion = success with great reviews and well over 2mill strong playing. I wouldn't call that a failure.

 

Well how many millions of people supported hitler, was that a sucess? Lol I know you loved my analogy dont lie.

Godwin's law, learn it, know it.

The adage states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

In other words, this forum thread has gotten so long that you decided to be outlandish and mention hitler.

Originally posted by Unive

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Aion = success with great reviews and well over 2mill strong playing. I wouldn't call that a failure.

 

Well how many millions of people supported hitler, was that a sucess? Lol I know you loved my analogy dont lie.

Godwin's Law

 Edit: Nice LM. Beat me to it.

Originally posted by Milky

Champions Online

Aion

Free Realms

Star Trek Online

DC Universe

and just about every other MMORPG coming out in 2009/2010

None of these games will bring anything new or truly innovative to the table.  All "been there, done that".

It depends on how you define failure. In terms of subs? Failure= <5million subs? or in terns of unorgininal game mechanics and/or storyline unless not yet seen by man before?

Well, then you are right. There will be failures.

Originally posted by Barteaux

Originally posted by Milky

Champions Online

Aion

Free Realms

Star Trek Online

DC Universe

and just about every other MMORPG coming out in 2009/2010

None of these games will bring anything new or truly innovative to the table.  All "been there, done that".

 

It depends on how you define failure. In terms of subs? Failure= <5million subs? or in terns of unorgininal game mechanics and/or storyline unless not yet seen by man before?

Well, then you are right. There will be failures.

The only "failure" that matters to me is if the games has to shut down or not. If it doesn't, then I can still play it no matter how many forum harpies are berating it.
 

It seems to me that people who seriously engaged in the subscriber number semantics of what is "successfull" and what is "failure" are just people that "half to be right" or want to "prove how smart they are." If a game can pay their bills and make a profit, it is a success. If it wasn't, then the people who own it would close it. Profit is a success. Loss is a failure.