Originally posted by Schufti

I have recently engaged in comparing both Wow(Blizzard) and Eq2 since i saw the thread "Wow copying eq2 yet again" i have bought eq2 and a hell load of wow game cards for this (of which i finished in the past year XD) i found world of warcraft lacking unique attributes and i seriously found out that impossible Everquest2 would be the copier it was one of the first ever graphical MMORPG released in 1999 y dont you reply with your opinion and new info will be updated visit daily for more'o'dis

I think the general point of the [Question???] is which came first or who stole from who. It was extremely hard to understand your post. Personally, I believe EQ2 came first.

Another poster made a comment I agree with completely: MMO's are not static. They feed off of each other. I find all the posts where "funcom fails" or "darkfall fails" or "War fails" [etc] ridiculous. These games are constantly working to expand and update. 

And that's what happened with both WoW and EQ2. They expanded and updated. So, eventually, they incorporated things they saw from other companies (adding their own flavor to the system).

OP. If english is not your first language, please forgive me. If english is your first language, please use a period once in a while. 

Simply put yes it is....

Ridiculous thread.

UO, EQ, Asheron's Call, Runescap,Daoc.. started it all.

If anything they stole from those games. EQ2 and Wow started/released around the same time.

Every mmorpg released after those first games should be considered a fraud if you consider WoW fraudulent.

Originally posted by Miklos

The OP is wrong in so many ways that the vote is useless.

EQ2 was NOT one of the first graphical MMORPGs - might have been number 20 (guesstimate). Everyone looked at EQ1 and Blizzard hired some EQ1 people.

But saying WoW copied EQ2 is uhmm - not smart.

apart from nitpickers who really gives a crap play what u enjoy  /shrug

Originally posted by Schufti

I have recently engaged in comparing both Wow(Blizzard) and Eq2 since i saw the thread "Wow copying eq2 yet again" i have bought eq2 and a hell load of wow game cards for this (of which i finished in the past year XD) i found world of warcraft lacking unique attributes and i seriously found out that impossible Everquest2 would be the copier it was one of the first ever graphical MMORPG released in 1999 y dont you reply with your opinion and new info will be updated visit daily for more'o'dis

All games copy some other game in one fashion or another.  EQ1 copied aspects of UO, as well as dungeons and dragons, who in turn copied from LoTR. 

If you want to be frank, everyone copied off of Ultima Online since UO basically introduced and popularized MMO gaming to society and the world back in 1997.

Technically, MMOs copied everything from MUDs which were created in the 80s. And MUDs derived everything from the pen and paper Dungeons & Dragons.

People equate WoW or EQ2 and being copied by each other because that is all they know. MMOs have been around for over a decade now. Though the style and game play has changed significantly.

Originally posted by Revenus

Originally posted by Schufti

I have recently engaged in comparing both Wow(Blizzard) and Eq2 since i saw the thread "Wow copying eq2 yet again" i have bought eq2 and a hell load of wow game cards for this (of which i finished in the past year XD) i found world of warcraft lacking unique attributes and i seriously found out that impossible Everquest2 would be the copier it was one of the first ever graphical MMORPG released in 1999 y dont you reply with your opinion and new info will be updated visit daily for more'o'dis

 

All games copy some other game in one fashion or another.  EQ1 copied aspects of UO, as well as dungeons and dragons, who in turn copied from LoTR. 

 

EQ actually copied very little from UO, EQ1 is entirely D&D. The monsters, attributes, classes etc all of it was taken purely from D&D. UO and AC at least tried a different approach, one that has since been given up by most MMO companies, with the classless skill based system. AC even had an original world without using the standard spider, wolf, bear, etc monsters. Although to be fair the mouse man people in UO were always my favorites.

Originally posted by Miklos

Originally posted by Bakoryo

Originally posted by drasilgame

WoW copied EQ1. WoW copied EQ2. EQ2 copied WoW.

 

 

Eq2 came before Wow, but nice try :3

And before someone says otherwise, look it up before posting.D

 

EverQuest II and World of Warcraft launched within 4 days of each other. So unless Blizzard created, printed, published World of Warcraft in just 4 days the statement that they copied anything from EverQuest II is stupid.

Fact is everyone borrows from each other, just like most cars have 4 wheels and a motor.

If you want to talk about copy - let's ask the pen & paper RPG'ers what they think of MMORPGs....

I played D&D in the late 70's through the 80's to the 90's.  The main difference between MMo's and paper and pen games, imho, is that after the game you don't have to rearrange your furniture, clean up all the empty soda bottles and coffee cups(or beer cans and bongs)  and the fat boy who always played a wizard didn't scarf the last piece of pizza.

There is also  not a lot of yelling and screaming when some one's best character is killed by orcs because the rest of the group decided not to help after he led them into yet 1 more trap(happens in MMO's but unless you have Teamspeak or Ventrilo you don't hear the anguished cries).

The last difference is that it is a heck of a lot easier to log into a game(usually) then it is rounding up the usual cast of players to play a game.

Why don't we all stop caring about who did what first and just play the games we like to play? You're not corporate lawyers, you have nothing to gain by arguing this point besides e-peen inches.

I think people forget that Blizzard released Diablo long before EQ was out and even though it wasn't an MMO per se', it still shares a lot of the same characteristics (quests, levels, bosses, classes, gear upgrades, etc).  I realize Diablo wasn't original either, but the point is, you could just as easily say EQ copied from Diablo as WoW copied from EQ.

The long and short answer of this is really a lot simpler than that:

Game developers, like any other creator of creative content, tend to go after trends of what seems to be selling and consequently will tend to copy the hell out of eachother.

• How many features in World of Warcraft can't be found in EverQuest?  Extremely few. Unique class mechanics such as rogue combos were the main feature added to the pre-existing formula.  A highly compatible client delivering a streamlined game experience was a lot of it.
• On the other hand, how much of EevrQuest can't be found in Meridan 59? Again, quite few: class niches, pretty much.
• How much of Meridan 59 can't be found in The Realm? It went 3D, but the graphical RPG mechanic isn't all that different.
• How much of The Realm can't be found in text-based MUDs before it? Text-based rooms were converted into 2D space, but there's not much else new here.

In this way, it's a silly thing to say that simply following the progression of creative content makes you a fraud. Everyone's standing on the shoulders of giants, that's just the way it is.

Although, in Blizzard's case, they do have a long history of taking other people's ideas and improving them.  For example, the original Warcraft was so heavily based on Westwood's Dune 2 to the point where Westwood attempted to sue them over it.   Diablo pulls a lot from the roguelike genre.  Even Blackthorne could be seen as a Prince of Persia refinement.

Very little of what Blizzard does is truly original.  Instead, they take pre-existing games, and refine the snot out of them.  Are they wrong to do so?  Not necessarily.  It turns out gamers really well refined pre-existing games.  That's an approach that has Blizzard known as "the company that can do no wrong,"  and garnered them a fanbase that catapulted WoW into the millions.

In EverQuest 2 versus WoW, there were some things that EQ2 introduced that showed up in WoW as soon as they caught word of it, such as the Griffin Towers for a transport system... although, strictly speaking, this isn't all that different from what Dark Age of Camelot did with their mounts.

Bad troll is winning BIG TIME. Go troll Go, are you full from all the feeding yet?

Originally posted by Sixpax

I think people forget that Blizzard released Diablo long before EQ was out and even though it wasn't an MMO per se', it still shares a lot of the same characteristics (quests, levels, bosses, classes, gear upgrades, etc).  I realize Diablo wasn't original either, but the point is, you could just as easily say EQ copied from Diablo as WoW copied from EQ.

You really couldn't, simply because EQ was well into development when Diablo was released. While they may share some similar elements, it's more an effect of them pulling inspiration from similar sources than from each other.

Originally posted by Carl132p

Bad troll is winning BIG TIME. Go troll Go, are you full from all the feeding yet?

If he was trying to troll, he did us a favor by accident.

The thing is, it's often a question amongst those who notice EQ2's release date immediately preceded WOW and that WoW picks up quite a few EQ2-unique features, did WoW copy EQ2?

My answer, sure, everybody copies everybody.  Welcome to game development.

Umm i think Wold of Warcraft copped Everquest but i havent played Everquest yet so i woudent know but all i know is that World of Warcraft is pretty good.

This isn;t gonna get anywere lol

WoW is known to copy... They stole a lot of their ideas from Warhammer. This was before it was a mmo.. But thats why WoW and Warhammer seem very similar. At least EQ2 is pretty neat.. No where as good as the first but hey, its still really fun.

WoW took the adrenaline/rage idea from Guild Wars's warrior class.

 No one copied anyone, What we see as copying is what our game genre has become. WoW and EQ2 Are the basic MMO outline that we see shaped in almost every game we play because they were very succesful. Developers fail to invent new concepts to change the genre and the simplistic gameplay we see repeated in almost every MMORPG today. So essentially every game is a copy, a mix of several. You know that Aion has merged 10 games into one to create a polish, as did warhammer and others.

If you want to be "realistic", in the sense that you are talking. World of Warcraft copied aspects from Everquest I. Everquest I copied aspects from Neverwinter Nights, who copied aspects from The Realm online, who copied aspects from previous non-mmorpg games.

It took a great deal of work to get where we are today and in no means is anyone copying anyone. They each took aspects from each other and evolved.

Fraud as a criminal act, generally

In criminal law, fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them – usually, to obtain property or services unjustly. [5] Fraud can be accomplished through the aid of forged objects. In the criminal law of common law jurisdictions it may be called "theft by deception," "larceny by trick," "larceny by fraud and deception," or something similar.

 Fraud for profit

Fraud for profit involves industry professionals. There are generally multiple loan transactions with several financial institutions involved. These frauds include numerous gross misrepresentations including: income is overstated, assets are overstated, collateral is overstated, the length of employment is overstated or fictitious employment is reported, and employment is backstopped by conspirators. The borrower's debts are not fully disclosed, nor is the borrower's credit history, which is often altered. Often, the borrower assumes the identity of another person (straw buyer). The borrower states he intends to use the property for occupancy when he/she intends to use the property for rental income, or is purchasing the property for another party (nominee). Appraisals almost always list the property as owner-occupied. Down payments do not exist or are borrowed and disguised with a fraudulent gift letter. The property value is inflated (faulty appraisal) to increase the sales value to make up for no down payment and to generate cash proceeds in fraud for profit.

 Marriage fraud

Marriage fraud can take several forms and is the act of entering a marriage for personal gain rather than a genuine desire to enter into a sincere marital relationship. Marriage Fraud is usually associated with obtaining immigration benefits. In the United States, marriage fraud for immigration purposes is punishable under INA §204(c)(1) and the Immigration Marriage Fraud Amendments of 1986. Possible criminal penalties include $250,000 and 5 years in prison as well as deportation and a permanent bar against receiving future immigration status. Marriage Fraud can be either unilateral or bilateral Unity and Immigration Policy in the United States. In a unilateral marriage fraud, only one party is aware of the fraud and the fraud is against both the immigration service as well as the other party. The innocent party may file a lawsuit and/or annulment of the marriage. In a bilateral fraud, both parties are aware of it and both parties are subject to criminal penalties.

 Academic fraud

In academia and science, fraud can refer to academic fraud – the falsifying of research findings which is a form of scientific misconduct – and in common use intellectual fraud signifies falsification of a position taken or implied by an author or speaker, within a book, controversy or debate, or an idea deceptively presented to hide known logical weaknesses. Journalistic fraud implies a similar notion, the falsification of journalistic findings.

 Fraud as tort

Fraud, in addition to being a criminal act, is also a type of civil law violation known as a tort. A tort is a civil wrong for which the law provides a remedy. A civil fraud typically involves the act of intentionally making a false representation of a material fact, with the intent to deceive, which is reasonably relied upon by another person to that person's detriment. A "false representation" can take many forms, such as:

* A false statement of fact, known to be false at the time it was made;
* A statement of fact with no reasonable basis to make that statement;
* A promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised;
* A statement of opinion based on a false statement of fact;
* A statement of opinion that the maker knows to be false; or
* An expression of opinion that is false, made by one claiming or implying to have special knowledge of the subject matter of the opinion. "Special knowledge" in this case means knowledge or information superior to that possessed by the other party, and to which the other party did not have equal access.
* An intentional omission or concealment of some material fact done with the design of deceiving another party, and done with the intent that the other party rely on the deception.

I think it is a marriage fraud.

Originally posted by Bakoryo

Originally posted by drasilgame

WoW copied EQ1. WoW copied EQ2. EQ2 copied WoW.

 

 

Eq2 came before Wow, but nice try :3

And before someone says otherwise, look it up before posting.

 

Copying features from another game isn't really being a "fraud" the op is surely misuing the word or just didn't know which word to put there. Though fraud makes people come here instead of another "copy paste" thread.

 

Besides, if taking good features from another company is bad, just look at all other merchandise,food,cars and whatnots. It's everywhere, don't think it's just around a game. And yes, im overdoing it :D

By FOUR freak'n days EQ2 launch first.  FOUR days.  And for the record, EQ2 was such crap, it never recovered and now WoW has nearly 12 million ACTIVE subscribers while while SOE doesn't have ONE million active subscribers with all of their MMORPGs combined.  So please, stop trying to crap on WoW.

Originally posted by Shannia

 

By FOUR freak'n days EQ2 launch first.  FOUR days.  And for the record, EQ2 was such crap, it never recovered and now WoW has nearly 12 million ACTIVE subscribers while while SOE doesn't have ONE million active subscribers with all of their MMORPGs combined.  So please, stop trying to crap on WoW.

 

Four days may be enough for some genius programmers to add all sort of cool stuff they saw on another game...It's possible.

Ohh look! A pig with wings! (Follows blindly after it)