Hello all,

I was thinking to write a thread about these 2 games. I played Shaiya for over a year and i had a lot of fun and in same time a lot of problems i will put in by doing this comparaison.

F2P (Shaiya)

Pros:

1. you can play for "free" if you don't want to be as good as the others who pay for item mall objects.

Cons:

1.  F2P is actually one of the biggest tricks in gaming.  While it says you don't have to spend real money, actually you can't keep going. Finally you spend a lot much more than for a P2P. In my case, i've payed between 50 and 250$ monthly. You could say it's crazy, but it was the only way to do something in pvp. EX: dying you could lose until 5% exp.; at high lvl you play a full day to earn that exp. So, you don't want to lose it, then you have to buy a item who prevent exp, but for about 8$. Gaining exp is a crime, so you have to buy another item to give you higher exp wich is 17$ by month. Also, you can lose items, so to prevent them to drop you need to buy another item for 8$/mo. Finally you realise you HAVE to spend real money, because the gold you earn by playing is not enough to help you buying from the other players.

2. Gold spammers who increase the inflation. IN Shaiya some of GMs were really unqualified and they banned innocent players accusing them for using 3rd party services.

3. GMs remove for drop the good gear and they offer you to buy with real money. IN Shaiya slotted helmets wasn't anymore droppable, so you should pay until 150$ to have one.

4. F2P use the most infected trickeries to make you spend the money you worked hard for in real life. Ex.: big news, the game offer for 150$ a 4 slotted helmet. Wow, everybody use the savings and try to get it. Few months later another big offer: 5 slotted helmets and for a higher lvl for 150$. OMG, why not to smash the piggy bank and buy it?! And so. All these trickeries make you spend like a fool. I knew few persons who payed over 5000$ in less than 1 year.

 5. GMs abuse you and threat you like a fly on the basis the game is "free". They don't give a shiit on you.

P2P (AION)

Pros:

1. BY spending 13-15$ monthly, actually the game makes you a big service. It seems that AION require ~120$ by year. Well, for Shaiya i've spent 1015$ in 12 months O_O

2. The game offer equal chances at drop. You don't have to pay for them with real money.

3. Higher chances that players have about same capacities, because all the items are found in game, not in item mall.

4. Higher interest in updates to keep the players unbored

5. Keeping away the children who make you feel bad sometime

6. grinding spots it'll be less crowded than in a F2P

Cons:

1. the game is available in the fall only :D

Originally posted by kattay

Cons:

1. the game is available in the fall only :D

 

Go play now :P

Originally posted by kattay

Hello all,

I was thinking to write a thread about these 2 games. I played Shaiya for over a year and i had a lot of fun and in same time a lot of problems i will put in by doing this comparaison.

F2P (Shaiya)

Pros:

1. you can play for "free" if you don't want to be as good as the others who pay for item mall objects.

Cons:

1.  F2P is actually one of the biggest tricks in gaming.  While it says you don't have to spend real money, actually you can't keep going. Finally you spend a lot much more than for a P2P. In my case, i've payed between 50 and 250$ monthly. You could say it's crazy, but it was the only way to do something in pvp. EX: dying you could lose until 5% exp.; at high lvl you play a full day to earn that exp. So, you don't want to lose it, then you have to buy a item who prevent exp, but for about 8$. Gaining exp is a crime, so you have to buy another item to give you higher exp wich is 17$ by month. Also, you can lose items, so to prevent them to drop you need to buy another item for 8$/mo. Finally you realise you HAVE to spend real money, because the gold you earn by playing is not enough to help you buying from the other players.

2. Gold spammers who increase the inflation. IN Shaiya some of GMs were really unqualified and they banned innocent players accusing them for using 3rd party services.

3. GMs remove for drop the good gear and they offer you to buy with real money. IN Shaiya slotted helmets wasn't anymore droppable, so you should pay until 150$ to have one.

4. F2P use the most infected trickeries to make you spend the money you worked hard for in real life. Ex.: big news, the game offer for 150$ a 4 slotted helmet. Wow, everybody use the savings and try to get it. Few months later another big offer: 5 slotted helmets and for a higher lvl for 150$. OMG, why not to smash the piggy bank and buy it?! And so. All these trickeries make you spend like a fool. I knew few persons who payed over 5000$ in less than 1 year.

 

P2P (AION)

Pros:

1. BY spending 13-15$ monthly, actually the game makes you a big service. It seems that AION require ~120$ by year. Well, for Shaiya i've spent 1015$ in 12 months O_O

2. The game offer equal chances at drop. You don't have to pay for them with real money.

3. Higher chances that players have about same capacities, because all the items are found in game, not in item mall.

4. Higher interest in updates to keep the players unbored

5. Keeping away the children who make you feel bad sometime

6. grinding spots it'll be less crowded than in a F2P

 

Cons:

1. the game is available in the fall only :D

 

To be honest, from my experience with shaiya and from what I see/know about Aion, Aion is the clear winner. It come across (because it is) a triple AAA title.

Shaiya feels like a free to paly game. And it looks it. I had all the graphics (yes, for those who are about to write, I know graphics aren't "everything") maxed and it still didn't seem to be inspiring.

I'll pay the 14.99 per month for Aion. Heck, I'd pay double.

Originally posted by Sovrath

I'll pay the 14.99 per month for Aion. Heck, I'd pay double.

With the 1015$ i've spent in one year i could've played a P2P game for 5-6 years :(

Originally posted by kattay

Originally posted by Sovrath

I'll pay the 14.99 per month for Aion. Heck, I'd pay double.

 

With the 1015$ i've spent in one year i could've played a P2P game for 5-6 years :(

The price you pay for the quality of a F2P title just boggles my mind, I never understood why anyone would actually spend the time or money on it. 

My suggestion is go play the Aion Chinese retail for CHEAP. And have a polished and positive gaming experience all around.

Anyone notice that all the personnal shops have gone away after aion went P2P.  I like this pay by the hour plan over just a stright monthly sub.  People don't set up AFK shops now because that burns up there time so everyone is using the AH. 

My playing hours varies from day to day (1-3 hours on the weekdays and 5-6 hours on the weekend, so this hourly pay plan is great for me).

Originally posted by stayontarget

Anyone notice that all the personnal shops have gone away after aion went P2P.  I like this pay by the hour plan over just a stright monthly sub.  People don't set up AFK shops now because that burns up there time so everyone is using the AH. 

My playing hours varies from day to day (1-3 hours on the weekdays and 5-6 hours on the weekend, so this hourly pay plan is great for me).

I could of swore I read that when you go into shop mode it doesn't actually burn away your game time. And from an SDO source. I'm not gonna go search for it again cos it was translated, I think, but I guess we'll see as time goes on. Was an older announcement, too, so it might of changed. But that's what I read.

you could be right, but I hope not because I hate those dam shops.

Originally posted by stayontarget

you could be right, but I hope not because I hate those dam shops.

Seriously. I hope they're cut entirely from the NA version. I see them serving no purpose with an AH.

Originally posted by Synthetick

Originally posted by stayontarget

you could be right, but I hope not because I hate those dam shops.

Seriously. I hope they're cut entirely from the NA version. I see them serving no purpose with an AH.

An aspect that player shops offer that an AH does not is the ability for players to be a bit entrepreneurial. As an example, one could do some research and set up a private store with potions at a hub location next to a heavily trafficked PvE or PvP area.

Originally posted by Ayase

Originally posted by Synthetick

Originally posted by stayontarget

you could be right, but I hope not because I hate those dam shops.

Seriously. I hope they're cut entirely from the NA version. I see them serving no purpose with an AH.

 

An aspect that player shops offer that an AH does not is the ability for players to be a bit entrepreneurial. As an example, one could do some research and set up a private store with potions at a hub location next to a heavily trafficked PvE or PvP area.

I can see the point, but the fact that most players don't go set up shop in a nice hub area, they go and all group together in areas (main cities, etc) where it's quite annoying and generally laggy enough, is really the issue.. And with the annoyance factor already inplace, most players that do set up a private store in a location such as you spoke of, they're often overlooked and people just run straight by them.

I know the time I spent on other copies of the game, I didn't personally stop to browse through a shop. The prices are typically going to be higher in that shop since direct competition (people selling the same item) can't be viewed like the AH -- this results in the prices in stores often to be inflated. I always head straight to the AH, and always will.

There will be players that use the feature, but with the AH it's going to be obsolete. Especially when NA players are accustomed to screaming that we WTS things on a trade/regional/or some kind of chat channel, which honestly, is more effective than setting up a shop because I'm getting my product out there to everyone that has the chat enabled, plus, I'm not required to set a price like in the shop. I can negotiate it from the get-go.

Why spend 5 hours AFK trying to sell an item when I could post it in the AH and spam it in half the time, and not being restricted to one location in shop-mode. Not to mention it really just looks tacky in cities and such when there's 300 of them grouped together, and not to mention how hard it is to tell which shop is which and to click on them half the time.

You know what I'd really love to see if this is in the NA version? AC style portal storming when too many people group up in one locations, but only in cities.

Two thoughts in response. 1) Yeh, I don't play KMMOs near as much as I used to, due to the insistent inclusion of afk-trade-markets to the exclusion of bona-fide AHs. L2 is laaaaaag city in many of its towns. Love the game but got real sick of afk-vendor lag syndrome. Also, I do not care to leave my PC on 24/7... electric bills and PC wear&tear = $$$ I have not. It is very difficult to take part in the economy of an A-T-M game if you do not remain logged in all the time. Also, if you have MMO-ADD and an older rig, minimising one (or more) game client(s) in order to maintain an afk stall whilst you get your fix of another MMO is impractical/undoable. FF11 gives us the best of both worlds, AH and the option of afk bazaars, yet 5 years later KMMOs still refuse to follow suit.

2) As for F2P being A Bad Thing... the arguments I have read haven't logically lead to the conclusion that F2P is bad, just that Shaiya is a game run by Conmen. Frankly, I have an huge issue with the P2P structure of FF11. I rarely play that game anymore because it is way overpriced for my playstyle (I have alt-itis like no tomorrow). 2 WoW acts with a total of 100 slots = $28-ishUS/mo. 2 FF11 acts with a maximum of 16 slots per account, at $1 per slot after the first, for a total of 32 available slots = $US58-no-ish-about-it/mo.There are unfair pricings happening in the P2P market as well.

Now, does the money you spend get you excellent content? That, again, depends on the individual game company, NOT whether it is F2P/P2P. The revenues that Shaiya seems to be raking in by the waggonfull is more than enough to maintain an INCREDIBLE gaming experience. If all you are getting is 'typically F2P fare', then you are being had by Conmen abusing a valid and effective Revenue Model, thereby disgracing said Revenue Model in the eyes of consumers.

Oh, by the way, Guild Wars is Free 2 Play.... and it doesn't earn revenue from game malls. I CHALLENGE all of you who deem F2P as synonymous with bad graphics/content to explain to me why GW has such horribly eye-bleeding graphics and such a shallow barely-a-puddle-in-the-desert storyline?

Sorry, F2P is not the culprit. In fact, with so MANY games coming out, I do not have the $$ to enjoy even a fraction of them, which is sad because there are many good games out there that do not deserve to be switched off. Pay 2 Play, in my opinion, is out-dated and is preventing new games from seeing the light of day. I have to keep juggling my subs between FF11, L2, LoTRO, & WoW as it is, without considering subs for WHO, AoC, PotBS, and Sword of the New World -- all games that I have bought and have yet to install months later because I can't afford more subs... nevermind games coming out such as Aion,ST,Spellborne(well,ok,I was in that for a second back in alpha test but my rig blew up under the sysreqs--now that I have upgraded I can't wait for that to release and will be adding it into my MMO switchout rotation :P). EO has just received new content, EQ has its 10th ann, then there's EQ2... I used to play DDO as well...So many games, so many stories, but we cannot experience them on the whole because P2P models force us to triage what we play. Swamping the market with solo games is one thing, sooner or later we can experience as many of those as we want... they are a one-time payment... the question is if we have the TIME to play them all, not the money. Swamping the market with MMOs is radically different -- too many great stories will be lost (shut down) because people can only afford so much MONEY per month to support subscriptions, whether we have the time is irrelevant.

I have already been thinking for the past several months that it is time to bring down the subscription model and start going F2P. Done right, done fairly, F2P is a win-win for devs and players alike. Until then, I'm afraid I shall have to triage everything and continue juggling my subs between FF,L2,LoTRO,WoW, and the upcoming CoS. What a shame, but it is mostly incumbents that will win in a P2P environment.

Footnote: hourly P2P as opposed to monthly... sounds like it might be the answer.... however, hourly rates can be so jacked up that they in effect would be as rapine as your Shaiya F2P experience. If hourly rates are kept consistent with overall monthly plans, then we may have a winner concerning the threat the P2P Revenue Model is towards new titles/innovations.

Originally posted by Ayase

Originally posted by Synthetick

Originally posted by stayontarget

you could be right, but I hope not because I hate those dam shops.

Seriously. I hope they're cut entirely from the NA version. I see them serving no purpose with an AH.

 

An aspect that player shops offer that an AH does not is the ability for players to be a bit entrepreneurial. As an example, one could do some research and set up a private store with potions at a hub location next to a heavily trafficked PvE or PvP area.

Ahhh... Ayase beat me to it!!!

This is so true.

Player shops in Lineage 2 (for instance) work extremely well because it does allow players to do more than just "post stuff" to sell.

I recall having pricing wars and even buying out my competition in order to corner the market.

Players used to set up shops in common areas of popular dungeons (cruma tower!!!) in order to sell their wares.

I would take personal shops over AH anyday as it makes the game far more vibrant and alive.

Heck, sometimes you could pm a player on the spot and haggle the price. It's really an incredible thing.

Auction houses are... well... "convenient".

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Ayase

Originally posted by Synthetick

Originally posted by stayontarget

you could be right, but I hope not because I hate those dam shops.

Seriously. I hope they're cut entirely from the NA version. I see them serving no purpose with an AH.

 

An aspect that player shops offer that an AH does not is the ability for players to be a bit entrepreneurial. As an example, one could do some research and set up a private store with potions at a hub location next to a heavily trafficked PvE or PvP area.

 

Ahhh... Ayase beat me to it!!!

This is so true.

Player shops in Lineage 2 (for instance) work extremely well because it does allow players to do more than just "post stuff" to sell.

I recall having pricing wars and even buying out my competition in order to corner the market.

Players used to set up shops in common areas of popular dungeons (cruma tower!!!) in order to sell their wares.

I would take personal shops over AH anyday as it makes the game far more vibrant and alive.

Heck, sometimes you could pm a player on the spot and haggle the price. It's really an incredible thing.

Auction houses are... well... "convenient".

Price wars, and buying out the competition to corner the market can be done, if not easier, directly through an AH. You just have to watch it and pay attention. I'm not worried about competition so much with shops as someone has to manually click through each of the 400 shops gathered together to find what they're looking for.

The AH is a beautiful tool to scope out the competition of other sellers on the server and compete directly with them, as well as the potential bid wars.

And I fail to see how people AFK shopping makes the game feel vibrant and alive, and that's exactly what 95% of the people who post up as shop do, is go AFK. I'd rather log in and see people screaming in the trade channel then have a city full of AFK shops.

Auctions houses are convenient, yes, but ontop of that, are also more organized and the prices aren't as inflated. Not to mention the auction houses are usually linked, so instead of having to travel 5-10 minutes out of my way to check shops over there => I can just check the AH and check the prices everywhere, that would tie directly into the convenience. Which, in this day and age, is what MMOs (including Aion) are all about. Convenience, it's the way of MMOs now, like it or not. Some of it's good, some of it's bad.

Originally posted by Stalinfalcon

Footnote: hourly P2P as opposed to monthly... sounds like it might be the answer.... however, hourly rates can be so jacked up that they in effect would be as rapine as your Shaiya F2P experience. If hourly rates are kept consistent with overall monthly plans, then we may have a winner concerning the threat the P2P Revenue Model is towards new titles/innovations.

It's not a threat to the P2P revenue model, it's an alternative to the current P2P revenue model, but it's still a P2P model. You're not going to be able to log into said game unless you pay a price, period.

I would honestly rather stick to a monthly subscription plan, it's pocket change, and the companies are making profit from it. I don't see the reason to try to come up with new, innovative payment options. I'm not paying you for the service of which I'm paying you, I'm paying you in order to play the game. 

Hourly, monthly, whatever. Hourly so far with China has been cheaper than a monthly subscription would be, but at the same time, I like knowing how much I'm spending on the game a month, and that rate will always be the same, regardless of how much I do or do not play. 

More games should just do the lifetime subscriptions. That, I'm all for.

I don'ty know why today's gamer have this attitude of this way or that way, how about the middle? removing an option entirely means giving less options to player base. AH or personal shop its players choice how they want to sell. I for one congratulate AION developers for keeping the variety. Let players choose please how they want to sell. I find Personal Shops interesting and quick way to make some bucks on the go.

Who cares if some people prefer AH? doesn't mean Player Shops are completely useless. So to say this feature should be completely removed is silly. More options is always good, if you don't want to use Personal shops, AH are for you otherwise, skip it and don't let it bother you because in the end its not going to disrupt your game play in any manner.

two things I want to post real quick:

1) $1015? really? wow. i played shaiya and enjoyed it as a f2p but I would never spend money in an item shop. its not worth it over a longer period of time. (just my 2 cents)

2) does anyone know exactly how much this will cost monthly? I am hoping it will be $9.99 a month but I can pay up to $14.99. However I may consider not picking this up if its more then 15 a month. Its not that I cant afford it, but lets face it...with the economy going the way it is... Over 15 a month starts to get a little expensive when everyone is trying to cut back and the way jobs are around the world. 

P.S. if an Aion rep is watching...ask the suits to make this around 10 bucks a month or less if possible. I will love you long time.

Originally posted by Shastra

I don'ty know why today's gamer have this attitude of this way or that way, how about the middle? removing an option entirely means giving less options to player base. AH or personal shop its players choice how they want to sell. I for one congratulate AION developers for keeping the variety. Let players choose please how they want to sell. I find Personal Shops interesting and quick way to make some bucks on the go.

Who cares if some people prefer AH? doesn't mean Player Shops are completely useless. So to say this feature should be completely removed is silly. More options is always good, if you don't want to use Personal shops, AH are for you otherwise, skip it and don't let it bother you because in the end its not going to disrupt your game play in any manner.

I'd taking the time to reply to you in depth, but you obviously didn't read mine through.

I find personal shops pretty useful in Pugs for example, there's always a retard forgetting pots and what not and the personal shop does the math for you :P

It can deffinetly have its uses, altho Im pretty sure that in our version of the game there won't be as many as on the chinese one, since a good percent of the western players prefer easy mode stuff :P

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Ayase

Originally posted by Synthetick

Originally posted by stayontarget

you could be right, but I hope not because I hate those dam shops.

Seriously. I hope they're cut entirely from the NA version. I see them serving no purpose with an AH.

 

An aspect that player shops offer that an AH does not is the ability for players to be a bit entrepreneurial. As an example, one could do some research and set up a private store with potions at a hub location next to a heavily trafficked PvE or PvP area.

 

Ahhh... Ayase beat me to it!!!

This is so true.

Player shops in Lineage 2 (for instance) work extremely well because it does allow players to do more than just "post stuff" to sell.

I recall having pricing wars and even buying out my competition in order to corner the market.

Players used to set up shops in common areas of popular dungeons (cruma tower!!!) in order to sell their wares.

I would take personal shops over AH anyday as it makes the game far more vibrant and alive.

Heck, sometimes you could pm a player on the spot and haggle the price. It's really an incredible thing.

Auction houses are... well... "convenient".

+1 exactly.

Trading is a complete game within the game. It's a feature like crafting, pvp, etc... Auction houses kill the "shopping around" feeling and make trading boring.

Furthermore, player shops bring cities alive and bustling with people. This is much better than the dead / lifeless cities you have in AH games like Vanguard & Co.

Comparing Aion to Shaiya is like comparing a Fiat Corola to a Ferrari Testarossa.

Originally posted by patrikd23

Comparing Aion to Shaiya is like comparing a Fiat Corola to a Ferrari Testarossa.

Good point.

Player shops work great. FFXI did a great job of it with the "bazaar".  Just outside Jueno, in Rolenberry feilds was the hub of players strip mall. You could find darn near anything you wanted out there. And the best part of it was, there was no tax outside of town. Another benifit of it was it didnt add to the lag inside of town. 

I am definatly a fan of player shops.

Originally posted by patrikd23

Comparing Aion to Shaiya is like comparing a Fiat Corola to a Ferrari Testarossa.

1. Fiat Corola don't think it exist  (Toyota Corola FTW)

2. I used a F2P i've played, so I used my experience. I didn't said is the best F2P...

And i am for AH (personal shop mean to run the computer during the night > non enviromently solution, you get disconected, all the market place is a lag fest and you get quickly tricked by players)

Originally posted by kattay

Hello all,

I was thinking to write a thread about these 2 games. I played Shaiya for over a year and i had a lot of fun and in same time a lot of problems i will put in by doing this comparaison.

F2P (Shaiya)

Pros:

1. you can play for "free" if you don't want to be as good as the others who pay for item mall objects.

Cons:

1.  F2P is actually one of the biggest tricks in gaming.  While it says you don't have to spend real money, actually you can't keep going. Finally you spend a lot much more than for a P2P. In my case, i've payed between 50 and 250$ monthly. You could say it's crazy, but it was the only way to do something in pvp. EX: dying you could lose until 5% exp.; at high lvl you play a full day to earn that exp. So, you don't want to lose it, then you have to buy a item who prevent exp, but for about 8$. Gaining exp is a crime, so you have to buy another item to give you higher exp wich is 17$ by month. Also, you can lose items, so to prevent them to drop you need to buy another item for 8$/mo. Finally you realise you HAVE to spend real money, because the gold you earn by playing is not enough to help you buying from the other players.

2. Gold spammers who increase the inflation. IN Shaiya some of GMs were really unqualified and they banned innocent players accusing them for using 3rd party services.

3. GMs remove for drop the good gear and they offer you to buy with real money. IN Shaiya slotted helmets wasn't anymore droppable, so you should pay until 150$ to have one.

4. F2P use the most infected trickeries to make you spend the money you worked hard for in real life. Ex.: big news, the game offer for 150$ a 4 slotted helmet. Wow, everybody use the savings and try to get it. Few months later another big offer: 5 slotted helmets and for a higher lvl for 150$. OMG, why not to smash the piggy bank and buy it?! And so. All these trickeries make you spend like a fool. I knew few persons who payed over 5000$ in less than 1 year.

 5. GMs abuse you and threat you like a fly on the basis the game is "free". They don't give a shiit on you.

P2P (AION)

Pros:

1. BY spending 13-15$ monthly, actually the game makes you a big service. It seems that AION require ~120$ by year. Well, for Shaiya i've spent 1015$ in 12 months O_O

2. The game offer equal chances at drop. You don't have to pay for them with real money.

3. Higher chances that players have about same capacities, because all the items are found in game, not in item mall.

4. Higher interest in updates to keep the players unbored

5. Keeping away the children who make you feel bad sometime

6. grinding spots it'll be less crowded than in a F2P

 

Cons:

1. the game is available in the fall only :D

 

Well, that was your fault for spending that money.

Good F2P games are free to play only to allow for a bigger player base. 
The only thing paying will do is speed up what you are already doing for free.

They may offer potions or items for crafting, but they are all available to the player for free if they grind it or spend in game money.

Cabal was a good example of this.  Im not sure about the new gambling thing they have, turned me away from it because it reminds me of gauchpon or w/ever from Maplestory, which ran the economy.