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Originally posted by PapaB34R Haha ok. I give you that my first post was not so constructive, and included the word WoW and noob. Not together tho. It was a post made out of boredom. However, i haven't mentioned any FPS game and certainly not counter-strike. Haven't mentioned Oblivion either. So i dont know what you are smoking but its probably pretty good stuff. I also posted 2 posts after that one that was constructive and gave my opinion. And yes i had only been 10 for a while when i first played Meridian 59 on school computers, so your comment about me not possibly could have played 8 years before you entered the mmo scene is not true. Anyways, this discussion between you and me is pretty much pointless now. Just reply jinzounin's post, since he said it better then i could have ever done. But you seem to have avoided answering it=)
yes we are getting away from the subject arent we. But I think the views are so fundamentaly different that this discussion basicly have gone in to a deadlock and I have no wish to reply to that guys post, why because either he cant read right, or hes just defending the game.. or he pretends to know stuff when he doesnt know shit.. atleast thats what I feel reading what hes typing. I mean if you seriously think the level of detail is the same then for a 1st and 3rd person view.. He picks out stuff from my bio I havnt changed in years and keeps throwing oblivion and fallout 3 out, this game doesnt have even half of the budget of any of those, further more Oblivion and fallout 3 should be considered hyped because of their history (oblivion=morro wind and fallout.. well prev fallout games), mortal online got none. Theres also the amusing fact that both games allow for 3rd person view. Must say to attack me claiming I only know of WoW was funny though I give you that. so what Ive red I consider him to be.. well wouldnt say socially challenged but he doesnt do his homework very well, he doesnt really go on subject but keeps repeating himself. If I should too for once, take any MMO to date, pick one doesnt matter which then compare how it looks from 3rd to 1p view, its so easy. It doesnt get more simple. My standpoint still lasts its foolish not to allow 3rd person view, its dumb and not well thought trough. The head designer is not someone that should have a more advance rule then cleaning the toilets. Maybe thats a bit rough but hes more of the philosophic/hippie guy who cares more about his "art" then the gameplay and its mechanics. With that said dont get me wrong Im still interested in the game and although I may not buy it straight away Il probably get the trial once released. And yes you havnt been playing in the RPG genre longer then I am, Im 3 years ahead of you as for mmo genre I played runescape back in the day, its ignorant and foolish to make such a comment.. just saying not that it has any matter whatsoever I have played more games then most folks, that includes mmo's but that doesnt matter in this discussion. However it do reflect upon your statements Ah, but it seems you are the one who cannot read. You did not directly reply to one thing I posted, which were all valid points and grammatically correct. For some reason, nothing you have posted here has been the least bit close to grammatically correct. Although I didn't want to bring that up, by bringing my intellect into question I am guiltless in throwing your lack of intelligence into the open. Have you figured out how to use Your, You're, and There Their and They're yet? It's not too hard, and if you want a lesson I can teach you. And by the way, all of my points were valid; you seem to recall nothing of the terminology I used. Ever heard of seamless tiles? I guess if you really knew anything you were arguing you wouldn't be arguing at all. Textures are only as good as the textures themselves; you seem to reek of the problems that hit games during the Nintendo 64 generation (That was a while ago). Oh, and if you seem to believe your knowledge was so great, why is it that you felt the need to change your Bio? By disregarding all valid points I made you only show that you have not done your homework, or that you seem to know nothing of what you quickly spew into an argument. Just consider it this way: If you want to win an argument, you have to provide examples, not just biased opinion-based knowledge(By the way, opinion-based knowledge doesn't exist, there is knowledge and there is opinion. You think your opinion makes fact, That's a logical fallacy. If you don't know what that is please feel free to google.) Now, getting closer to the point, you really seem to point out all kinds of biased hatred towards the developers. Since when did being 'a hippie' make you a worse game developer? Let's stop using fallacies, because if you googled fallacies like I told you, you would notice that's what is called an Ad hominem. You are going after him personally instead of the viewpoint, which is committing a fallacy- if you are ever in a debate I would suggest not using such a method. (I am educated, so I guess that helps to back up an argument. I suggest you begin to work less on trolling and more on educating yourself.) Finally, to get back to the point.. They are creating a consistent game, and if you have a problem with that I suggest you stop looking within these forums to start up a cause. If you want to start up a cause for change, I believe you would find it more beneficial if you allowed someone who is better educated and logical to represent your views. First person view will be in the game, as it is clearly the goal of the developers. Maybe they won't get that many players, but at least they are doing something productive instead of finding people to argue a useless point with. This game will have first person view, the end. I hope you enjoyed arguing a point that you so clearly lost. |
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Yamota
 Elite Member
Joined: 10/05/03
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. I know none and therefore, am no beast. |
Originally posted by DarkPony
Doubt it. Almost all MMORPGs since UO have had a 3rd person view and people have come to expect it. Not allowing it will make ALOT of people not play the game as it simply takes away from how MMORPGs are usually played. I for one was really looking forward to this game but once I heard about forced 1st person Im out of here.  |
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its funny how everybody complains about developers never doing something different and then as soon as they do people complain that they do. |
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Originally posted by PapaB34R I have not been keeping an eye on this thread lately and have not read all the replies, since quite frankly I'm tired of again and again disproving all the "arguments" that people who wish to have TPV put forward. But I just had to reply to this one, since every statement you made here is so utterly stupid it's simply mind blowing.
Firstly, yes, they are a small company, but they have more than 10 developers and also a hand full of interns who got brought on board recently. What you forget tho is that they bought their game engine (Unreal Engine 3.5) and their network code is being developed by Epic (Atlas system). Both of these have made huge leaps in terms of development for MMO's and MO will be taking advantage of many of their new features.
Secondly, why would they want to advertise any more in this stage? You know what concentrating on advertising would mean? They would have to get a publisher. This on the other hand is the last thing they want to do, because they don't want some publishers breathing down their neck, telling them when to release the game, what features to add and which ones to remove in order to make the game sell better ect. They are making the game according to their own vision and they don't need anyone messing with it. So, instead of wasting time on advertising they are using this time on actually developing the game, which makes a lot more sense to me. Furthermore, they have the money and the investors needed to release the game. They have close to 50 000 registered forum members and that's far more than what is needed for early beta testing.
Thirdly, why is sticking out bad? Quite the opposite, it's great! Differentiating yourself from the competition (other MMO's) is exactly what you need to do if you are a small development company. They know that they can't compete with Blizzard or any of the other power houses, so they decided to make a different game for a different player base and not try to develop another "WoW".
Fourthly, if you think someone being in a forest means that they are a tree hugger, then you should really get some help. And even if Mats was a tree hugger, what has that got to do with his skills as a game designer?
And lastly, they have a much better idea of how to market their game and have a much better idea than you do. It's you who can't understand their marketing strategy and goals. |
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Originally posted by L1ghtsabeR
I know I shouldn't get involved in this but I have an argument I'd like to see you disprove. I don't like first person view. Disprove that. |
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Originally posted by Neanderthal
I know I shouldn't get involved in this but I have an argument I'd like to see you disprove. I don't like first person view. Disprove that. Easy. Don't play the game and stop requesting the core game feature of MO to be changed just because you don't like it. Just like you don't ask for FPS games to be changed into TPV games you shouldn't be asking a FPV game (MO) to be changed into a TPV game.
It's common sense really. Too bad so many people on these forums lack it. |
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Originally posted by L1ghtsabeR Easy. Don't play the game and stop requesting the core game feature of MO to be changed just because you don't like it. Just like you don't ask for FPS games to be changed into TPV games you shouldn't be asking a FPV game (MO) to be changed into a TPV game.
It's common sense really. Too bad so many people on these forums lack it.
I won't play the game and I wasn't asking them to change it. I was just trying to make the point that all of these long winded arguments boil down to one simple thing: Some people like first person view and some people don't. All the arguing in the world isn't going to change that. You can scream and yell and hold your breath untill your face turns blue but that isn't going to change anybodies preferences. A lot of people dislike first person view so much that they won't play a game (or at least a mmorpg) if they are forced to use it. You can brow beat them all you like, you can use sweet reason, you can throw insults at them but none of that is going to change the fact that they don't like first person view. The only thing you're proving with all of your arguments is that YOU like first person view. Well that's fine but it doesn't change anything for anyone else. |
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Originally posted by Neanderthal So what are you doing here? Why are you posting in this thread? You don't wish to play MO, you don't like FPV... yet you keep posting.... mind boggling really.
Of course it boils down to personal preference and those who can't deal with FPV are welcome to move on and pick a different game. The problem is many are thinking that if they whine enough the devs will allow TPV as well. That will never happen, I can guarantee this with 100% certainty.
What I have "proven" with my arguments in various threads both here and on the MO official forums is why they have chosen to go with FPV and only FPV. The devs themselves have explained their reasoning behind it several times, yet people still seem to think that they are right and the devs are wrong. In my mind, that's just stupid. It's they who are making the game according to their vision. You can prefer whatever you like but you shouldn't try to force them to change their vision of the game simply because you have an issue with playing games in FPV.
But clearly, you have not read my arguments in previous threads on the same subject, if you have and still state that the only thing I have proven is that I like FPV, then it's really rather pointless to continue this discussion with you, since you clearly lack basic reading comprehension.
Oh and sorry for the rather hostile tone. I'm just sick and tired of this subject and the ignorace many display when trying to argue their views. |
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Why shouldn't I be here? I like to follow the development of games and this would hardly be the first time I've followed the development of a game I didn't intend to play. I guess you could say that game design interests me as much as playing games (maybe more). If I went back through your posts I'm sure you probably made a valid point or two but most of the arguments people bring up regarding this issue are based on purely subjective preferences and thus there is no right or wrong to it. Nobody can prove that one camera view is better than the other because it's a matter of opinion. I have read most of this thread but not recently so I can't remember exactly who said what. But you know I can sort of understand why 1st person people feel threatened by 3rd person view. They don't want to use it but they feel like they have to if it's there. I get that. But at the same time people who don't like 1st person view have every right to express their dissapointment. Anyway,I don't blame you for being sick and tired of this subject. But don't expect it to go away. People have their preferences and will always argue for the things they want. |
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This is the faq. MO is not a game for anyone. Like the OP said, get ower it... i mean, get over it. It made me angry that we wont have 3rd person view, but after i read about MO and saw the video, i can now see what the devs are really trying to do and i agree with their movement. I left all the mmorpg's and mortal online is an other hope that i dont want it to failed. Some whine about full looting, some whine about fpv only, some whine because mo have no safe zone, some whine because of the no minimap or map like other mmorpg and some whine because this game is too realistic....We cannot please anyone and we dont want to repeat the same story from the origine(wow) We want to try different aproach. Me, all i play is fps games, so i will get use to mortal online even if i like to look at my avatar while playing. Maybe they will think about something to make us look at our avatar while we have nothing to do, but chatting. MO dont need to attract all kind of player styles. All they need to do is make the players who are looking for that kind of game play the game and make them stay for more then 5 years if we have to. Like i said, i left all the mmorpg, i didnt even stay more then 4 months in one of them. Mortal online, i plan to stay in that game for ever. |
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I'm a fan of 3rd person views, but at the same time I'm also use to playing in 1st person too, Fallout 3 being the most recent game that got me back into the swing of 1st person. There are problems with having 3rd person views, most of which have been brought up already so I won't repeat them, but I must admit I do like to oogle my character now and then in games and see him/her in action. The people who are wondering about character creation etc - remember the characters are more created for what others see, less so for yourself and in this game it's almost entirely about what your opponent and friends see as they're the only ones likely to see you in action! You never know, the inventory screens may show your character, much like most MMOs do, which for me would be enough :) 
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Originally posted by Halfmad It has been confirmed by the devs that they are planning to implement a 3D paperdoll of your character. |
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Originally posted by L1ghtsabeR It has been confirmed by the devs that they are planning to implement a 3D paperdoll of your character.
The paperdolls should at least partially satisfy some of the males who like playing female toons. Is 1st person/3rd person really that big a deal? I realize there are quite a few posts here, but I for one am willing to wait and see how the game really feels when it comes out. |
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Dark Messiah did well without, so what the deal...? There's no point of a third person perspective in a first person adapted game, and actually, it can ruin parts of the gameplay. Just look at Fallout 3 or Oblivion( even Savage, although better performed), and compare 1st to 3rd and you see how the third perspective quickly gets awkward. Maybe these guys doesn't want to risk that, and rather have a quality awesome game, than appealing to as much people as possible. |
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Originally posted by IHoster
I love this point because people dont understand that Oblivion was one of the best games of the year it was released and played by millions all over the world. FP view is adored by many and people who can game all games.
The people that are stuck addicted to war-crack need to try something new before they start speaking murlock to there girlfriends in bed. |
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Completely agree! I am a fan of 3rd person view in games as I like to see my character, but it's not as if I don't enjoy games with only 1st person available, indeed in many I've prefered to play it like that, such as Oblivion and Fallout 3 :)
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Originally posted by Knifo
I love this point because people dont understand that Oblivion was one of the best games of the year it was released and played by millions all over the world. FP view is adored by many and people who can game all games.
The people that are stuck addicted to war-crack need to try something new before they start speaking murlock to there girlfriends in bed.
Yeah, go back to oblivion and close your boring oblivion gates. Oblivion is old now. Its nowere near the game from this year now. All you do is close oblivion gates. Ok, the site quests is good. Fallout 3 have too much rpg element like the vast mode. Its not even comparable to what MO will be. Stop trying to bring the 3rd person view in MO. |
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Originally posted by pausen
The trailer or beta footage (i foget which) shows the character looking down into a pool of water and you can see the reflection.
I quite like 1st person actually; much more immersive than some artifical god's-eye view of your character. I've never walked down the street and seen my body from above and behind, lol. I shouldn't expect to have a 3rd-person view in a game that seeks to simulate what a person could see inside a game world. |
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...a bit of a funny story here....
My first love in MMO's was EverQuest. The original EverQuest, owned by Verant Interactive before Sony became involved. In that game, I loaded into the world as a barbarian shaman in a cold northern climate. Looking out of my character's eyes I could see around me if I turned, and I could see my weapons/shields equipped and ready in front of me. Not long after starting, I got a bit of head armor that looked like a polar bear's head. I could see the fangs and such from my first-person view point from inside the head piece. It was great! Of course, a couple of weeks later on my friend showed me how to play in 3rd person, insisting how much better it was and how it would help me play. I hated it!! Instead of being my character, I was merely directing actions of something on a computer screen; sort of an MMO RTS game with one big hero moving around in the world that I was controlling. Ugh.... Lesson here: If you've never been forced into playing 1st person, give it a shot, you'll probably really enjoy it. Don't forget that everyone in the game will be looking thru the eyes of their characters and will not have any advantages of viewpoint (3rd person, all-around). Enjoy the difference from what you're accustomed to. |
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Well described experience. I can only say, that getting familiar with fpv needs time. As a teenager I didn't like to play fpv games. But from couple years I hate playing tpv crap, as I play for fun, to feel the gameplay. Not to compete or show somebody who's the man, just because I used game "technology" instead of own skills. Fair play is the way to go. Pity that not many players think the same. -- Remember, your advantage lies in your opponent's weakness (J) |
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The problem is not first person view, the problem is when you give third person to melee and first person to archers and mages and screw them over the way Darkfall has. Mortal Online needs to do right in their game and fix everything that Darkfall messed up. Free For All style gameplay and FPS simply do not mix. If Mortal Online follows the same steps and does melee third person and Free For All style play to exploit the alignment system then it is going to fail. Again, Darkfall has a much better classless system so if Mortal Online wants to succeed, they need to stand out. We already have a melee third person, Free For All game and that game is Darkfall. |
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Yamota
Elite Member
Joined: 10/05/03
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. I know none and therefore, am no beast. |
If the game has no 3rd person view then it will lose more customers than it will gain. There is a reason for 95% of all MMORPGs having 3rd person view and that is because the overwhelming majority of MMORPG players prefers it over 1st person. |
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Yamota
Elite Member
Joined: 10/05/03
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. I know none and therefore, am no beast. |
Originally posted by Warspawn
The trailer or beta footage (i foget which) shows the character looking down into a pool of water and you can see the reflection.
I quite like 1st person actually; much more immersive than some artifical god's-eye view of your character. I've never walked down the street and seen my body from above and behind, lol. I shouldn't expect to have a 3rd-person view in a game that seeks to simulate what a person could see inside a game world.
In RL the view area is much larger then most monitors, meaning you can see basically 180 degrees (unfocused). Also in RL your hearing is much more sophisticated than any sound system can provide which further helps you to "see" your surroundings. To compensate for all that 3rd person is done so you can easily gauge your surroundings. |
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3rd person view makes me feel like I am controlling an animated mannequin on screen.
1st person is so much more immersive for me. I've never been a big fan of 3rd person. |
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First person view rules. |
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