Originally posted by Gorilla

 If I still played (which I don't) I'd really be by now.

You would be "pissed" ??  Lol... what does hitting your head on a wall mean? :)

Originally posted by sinjin

Originally posted by PatchDay

new hacks popup all the time I'm looking at a bunch for WoW on youtube vids. there is no perfect method for detecting if packets being routed from client to server is being modified.

Not to sound like an instigator but I m very tehnical and  have some discrepancies to correct you on.  First there are several methods of detecting packet tampering.  You can buy hardware devices now that do his for you or you can setup a system with software (IDS).  If you change the information in the packet the size of the packet changes from the standard. Packets are broken down to a standard size and if that size changes there is packet tampering. I can build systems to sniff for these and drop them with no response to the originator.  Anywho, believe me the people with the skillset are not wasting their time hacking and selling WoW gold or accounts.  The  return is puny compared to what they would most likely be doing for a living.  There wouldn't even be  "a rush of the hack" feeling.

I spent almost 2 years hacking a well known MMO for nothing more than the rush of it. If you were a real computer guy you'd know why they did it. Not for any "return" other than just having something technical to figure out. A challenge, nothing more. Why do you think Linux exists? Anyway, simply checking the packet's size will do jack shit. If I randomly changed all the numbers in a packet using something stupid like ROT13, it would still be the same size.

Also no way to verify memory corruption. If software engineers could easily validate memory modification, then you would not have buffer overruns

Server side you should at least check for the velocity the player is moving at. I dont know why MMOs don't do this. Simply test the magnitude of the velocity. If it exceeds the threshold you got a speed hacker

If they are moving at the threshold or less then they are at least within acceptable range

 

MagnitudeSquared is a quick test and cheap CPU cost. Will bypass the performance loss for a square root calculation

Sounds like a lot of gibberish, I can however tell you in speedhacking packets flow at an accelerated rate.  This sets off red flags in most established security measure systems.  Very easy to detect imo, at the end of the day yes many games have hacks to some degree and there was no reason for the retaliator to try pick on WoW.  

Actually, bud, it's not gibberish and in fact, that's how WoW stopped them. You determine how fast a person should be going then you compare that to how fast they actually went. If there's a significant difference, you've got a speedhacker.

Also, you don't know what the Hell you're talking about. You don't speed up packets in speedhacking.  Seriously dude, what Geek Squad dumbass sold you that line of bullshit? You simply tell the server you're in a different location than you are! There are a lot of smart people on these boards, don't think you can bullshit them so easily.

Darkfall will have many hacks until they figure out what security measures they will use.  I bet dollars to donuts they have none at the moment. If they do it is probably some default standard out the box crap.

Hater much. 

 

 

Comments in red.

Also, Prow, what the fuck is your avatar? That's just disturbing. I can't stop looking at it.

 Every video game in the history of the world has hacks, face the hard truth. Those who hack in Darkfall get banned, simple as that. I have to hear all the people that were banned whining in the IRC. But keep running around thinking Aventurine is doing nothing. And keep telling yourself no other game has hacks (if that was true, how come such a mature and wealthy game like WoW just banned many thousands of hackers last month, you'd think with all their money and security there wouldn't be any hacks? lolz)

HAcking has been apart of gaming since Half life 1.

I see you go way back, man. HL1, that's oldschool! God, you're clueless...

There's a thread in the official forum about a guy who was stupid enough to forget about his radar hack in the minimap and posted it for everyone to see. Unluckily for him, someone else was quick and clever enough to save that pic to his hd and reup it. Funny stuff. Anyway, I log in to play the game tonight, not 5 minutes after me and my buddy leave our town we see a guy standing on top of the hill in front of us. We're trying to determine if he's looking in our direction, but after he starts strafing at 2-3x horse speed while on foot and naked, we realize it doesn't really matter that much. We proceed to "chase" him to at least catch a glimpse of his name and report him. I don't think it'll do any good, though, because every other cheater I've reported so far, including some asshole who had the nerve to teleport through dungeon walls right in front of me, is playing the game to this day. A few hours later, after some killing and some looting, we're on the other side of the main continent, standing on a plateau that's overlooking a hamlet. We're dismounting. Right before my friend is done hiding his mount, some fat turd (a dwarf) appears right on top of his horse (there was not a single person in the area where we were and there was no possible way of getting to where we were standing without making a noise and/or getting noticed by us), just to teleport out a second later. I couldn't even see his name. One second the mount was there, the next second it was gone. I guess I'm just not hardcore enough to put up with bullshit like this in a competitive game, especially considering the fact that the devs have no grip on what's happening -- they have no tools to determine who's cheating and who's not.

Originally posted by SignusM

 Every video game in the history of the world has hacks, face the hard truth. Those who hack in Darkfall get banned, simple as that. I have to hear all the people that were banned whining in the IRC. But keep running around thinking Aventurine is doing nothing. And keep telling yourself no other game has hacks (if that was true, how come such a mature and wealthy game like WoW just banned many thousands of hackers last month, you'd think with all their money and security there wouldn't be any hacks? lolz)

its funny how the poster after yours contradics what you just said.

But i do agree every game does have hacks, however some games are harder to hack than others.  Darkfall saves to much info client side making it very easy to hack. The truth is AV has done little as the voices of the players in the darkfall fourms gets worse and worse about hacking. The effect of hacking in darkfall is much bigger than in wow. Wow you dont lose shit if you die. if people hack it will be for the heck of it . but they do get caught.

Darkfall has everything going for it. if a hackers messes around the effect is much greater than a pve game like wow. But whats worse, you dont even need to hack to cheat.  I think it was on the 1 vs 1 thread where maxnwhatever found a page that shows a vid which i even posted on a few areas where you can easly swim under the land. its not a glitch or a bug, just holes in the textures where one land mass meets with the other and there are clear visible holes where you can easly swim into. people can simply do this, kill people above ground but how can you call them hackers if they legitly found a way under the ground.

Poor programing is hindering this game.

Originally posted by mcquaided

Originally posted by SignusM

 Every video game in the history of the world has hacks, face the hard truth. Those who hack in Darkfall get banned, simple as that. I have to hear all the people that were banned whining in the IRC. But keep running around thinking Aventurine is doing nothing. And keep telling yourself no other game has hacks (if that was true, how come such a mature and wealthy game like WoW just banned many thousands of hackers last month, you'd think with all their money and security there wouldn't be any hacks? lolz)

its funny how the poster after yours contradics what you just said.

But i do agree every game does have hacks, however some games are harder to hack than others.  Darkfall saves to much info client side making it very easy to hack. The truth is AV has done little as the voices of the players in the darkfall fourms gets worse and worse about hacking. The effect of hacking in darkfall is much bigger than in wow. Wow you dont lose shit if you die. if people hack it will be for the heck of it . but they do get caught.

Darkfall has everything going for it. if a hackers messes around the effect is much greater than a pve game like wow. But whats worse, you dont even need to hack to cheat.  I think it was on the 1 vs 1 thread where maxnwhatever found a page that shows a vid which i even posted on a few areas where you can easly swim under the land. its not a glitch or a bug, just holes in the textures where one land mass meets with the other and there are clear visible holes where you can easly swim into. people can simply do this, kill people above ground but how can you call them hackers if they legitly found a way under the ground.

Poor programing is hindering this game.

 

What you are describing is an exploit. Poor programming aside, if you see something that shouldn't be there, like swimming under the ground, then its an exploit.

Sometimes its hard to differentiate between exploits and clever tactics. Like what I used to do back in EQ1 with a buddy of mine, we would "pull mobs between us". Meaning, I get agro, mobs runs towards me, buddy casts a spell, gains agro, mob turns and runs for him. I cast a spell, mob turns and runs for me. This way mob is always running between us, never actually hitting any of us. It was hard to do, required good ping and player synchronisation. But it was doable.

Since sometimes there is no clear line between an exploit and clever tactics, it comes up to GM to decide whether to ban a player or applaud them for their ingenuity. With Av I would not risk it, they are not known for being logical or reasonable. Forcing people to delete their character's with "confusing" names instead of giving them a choice to rename it? Very unreasonable.

Originally posted by SignusM

 Every video game in the history of the world has hacks, face the hard truth. Those who hack in Darkfall get banned, simple as that. I have to hear all the people that were banned whining in the IRC. But keep running around thinking Aventurine is doing nothing. And keep telling yourself no other game has hacks (if that was true, how come such a mature and wealthy game like WoW just banned many thousands of hackers last month, you'd think with all their money and security there wouldn't be any hacks? lolz)

Suffice it to say that at least 2 of the leaders that were interviewed in the article that Paragus wrote thought that Hacking/Exploiting was one of if not THE biggest issue with DarkFall right now. 

If we are to believe Tasos' words on the subject then those 2 leaders are:

"...most of complaining is highly exaggerated, even bogus, and a lot of it is coming from the people making and promoting these programs, from players who are banned already, by players who are using the cheats, by people with an agenda, by people who aren't even in the game, and others who are just jumping on the bandwagon."  Tasos
 

Unless they are exempted from the "most". 

It is also the main issue mentioned by Tasos in his postings on the News section over on the Main Forums right behind Server down time.  Go ahead and count up the number of times that he mentions something about it in the News section.  It's obvious that it's not a "small issue".

So... despite what you might say... it would seem that hacking/exploiting is indeed an issue that needs more attention than it is getting.  Either there are not enough assigned to manually check out those reported, or the "automated" detection is not working as intended.

It's not a matter of IF there is hacking going on... as you've said... that happens in every MMO. 

It is the speed in which those reported are banned and prevented from harming the experience of those who are following the rules.  That is the part that seems to need more work. 

And a kind of 'limp' reponse to macroing (which 50%+ of the player base concider OK). 

i'ts not really a matter of 'every game has macroers/exploiters/hacks'... its more a matter of what percentage of players are using them at this point.

It took me less than 2 hours of being in a guild for almost everyone encouraging me to download the 'instant-loot' hack.  it's the reason so many new players get discouraged trying to do the newbie quests, because there are a ton of older players there doing insta-looting.

The stamina hack is also very prevalent.  Stamina isn't even an issue in the game any more and the hack is so widespread, nobody even thinks about it.   Watch half the movies on youtube, notice something odd?  The same can be said of insta-looting.. it's so prevalent that people don't even bother editing it out of their movies.

speedhacks, disappearing hacks and teleportation hacks are not as prevalent, but certainly not rare.

The problem is that so much of the game is client-side, that the creators of these hacks will always be ahead of Tasos.  It's much easier to create auto-detectors if more calculations are done server side.  The only way Tasos will get ahead of the exploiters is if he has much more stuff done server-side, which he isn't going to do because then he'll have to reduce the number of players on his ONE server

They've banned a bunch of people lately.... personnaly havnt found anyone cheating yet and been playing a lot.

Originally posted by khaelf

HAcking has been apart of gaming since Half life 1.

I see you go way back, man. HL1, that's oldschool! God, you're clueless...

There's a thread in the official forum about a guy who was stupid enough to forget about his radar hack in the minimap and posted it for everyone to see. Unluckily for him, someone else was quick and clever enough to save that pic to his hd and reup it. Funny stuff. Anyway, I log in to play the game tonight, not 5 minutes after me and my buddy leave our town we see a guy standing on top of the hill in front of us. We're trying to determine if he's looking in our direction, but after he starts strafing at 2-3x horse speed while on foot and naked, we realize it doesn't really matter that much. We proceed to "chase" him to at least catch a glimpse of his name and report him. I don't think it'll do any good, though, because every other cheater I've reported so far, including some asshole who had the nerve to teleport through dungeon walls right in front of me, is playing the game to this day. A few hours later, after some killing and some looting, we're on the other side of the main continent, standing on a plateau that's overlooking a hamlet. We're dismounting. Right before my friend is done hiding his mount, some fat turd (a dwarf) appears right on top of his horse (there was not a single person in the area where we were and there was no possible way of getting to where we were standing without making a noise and/or getting noticed by us), just to teleport out a second later. I couldn't even see his name. One second the mount was there, the next second it was gone. I guess I'm just not hardcore enough to put up with bullshit like this in a competitive game, especially considering the fact that the devs have no grip on what's happening -- they have no tools to determine who's cheating and who's not.

Careful man! The fanbots will attack you for saying there are ACTUALLY people cheating in...wait for it...sec....hold on now!....im almost there.......errrrr.....................K! Err in Darkfall!