Originally posted by Cereo

Originally posted by Nupe

Eh, I leveled to 80 without going through all the zones in AoC.  I say its sandbox because there is player driven content outside of the PvE such as sieging and guild wars.

 

Player driven content does not automatically equal sandbox. And its funny you said "guild wars". You realize there is a 'MMO' called Guild Wars, and its about all you do is guild wars and its probably the most linear game out there? I don't know, I just found that really funny how those two things correlated. And WAR has seiging, and it is right up there with most of the most linear MMOs out right now. Possibility the only game more linear is ... dare I say... AoC. :)

I never ever mentioned "Guild War's" the game rather I am talking about the fact that in AoC you war with othe guilds, siege their towns, etc.  AoC has sieging of player created cities that take a large amount of time and resources to build.  I am not quite sure WAR has sieging of player created cities.

Whatever the case, whether AoC is a sandbox or not has nothing to do with this thread.  If it is, fine.  If it is not, fine.

The point of this thread is that DFO is simply horrible and little or no redeeming qualities.  Stay on topic kids.

Originally posted by Nupe

The point of this thread is that DFO is simply horrible and little or no redeeming qualities.  Stay on topic kids.

In your completely subjective opinion, which you have a right to.

Originally posted by minago

 

all those things are trivial when compared to alternative boring theme park games ...where every new one is a rehash of a rehash.

 

There is nothing wrong with theme park games.  If you want a sand box game then go play Shadowbane (free and better than DFO) or AoC (also better than DFO).

 

yeah theres nothing wrong with them.

but the killjoy for me is i played uo and got a taste of sandbox gaming ...ive been playing mmorpg for along time  ... it seems like every game since eq has tried to copy the same formula  .

i tried shadowbane back in the day it was buggy as all hell lol, i wouldn't try it now because with free to play games "you usually get what you pay for"

aoc isn't really a sandbox mmo and i had purchased anarchy online in the past and had decided i wouldn't buy another game from funcom after all the crap i went threw with that game.

Shadowbane was pay to play for years.  It is a great game when you got past the bugs.  It is light years better than DFO today because the devs vastly improved it overtime.  Also, launch SB was better than DFO despite its bugs.  So the "you get what you pay for" rationale is not properly applied to shadowbane.

Originally posted by jonyak

Originally posted by Nupe

The point of this thread is that DFO is simply horrible and little or no redeeming qualities.  Stay on topic kids.

 

In your completely subjective opinion, which you have a right to.

Oddly enough, I've played DFO more than probably all the people in here defending it.  So, I know what I am talking about while most of you are basing your opinions and defense of this product off years of Tasos lies/hype and/or blurred videos and/or rabid fanboyism

There is a good reason that DFO only launched in EU.  There is a good reason DFO has staggered launch.  There is a good reason DFO never had a open beta or stress test.  There is a good reason DFO was such a huge secret with an NDA the week leading up to it's so called launch.  There is a good reason DFO missed its so called launch.  There is a good reason the forums were shut down for several days.  There is a good reason the main web site has not been updated for a long long time.  There is a good reason these dudes at Adventurine struggle to get billing right in 2009 and then blame the custormers.  

The reason is the game is bad and the devs are clueless.  That's it.  Make all the excuses you need.  That won't change the fact that DFO will not recover from this horrid launch.

Originally posted by Nupe

Originally posted by jonyak

Originally posted by Nupe

The point of this thread is that DFO is simply horrible and little or no redeeming qualities.  Stay on topic kids.

 

In your completely subjective opinion, which you have a right to.

 

Oddly enough, I've played DFO more than probably all the people in here defending it.  So, I know what I am talking about while most of you are basing your opinions and defense of this product off years of Tasos lies/hype and/or blurred videos and/or rabid fanboyism

There is a good reason that DFO only launched in EU.  There is a good reason DFO has staggered launch.  There is a good reason DFO never had a open beta or stress test.  There is a good reason DFO was such a huge secret with an NDA the week leading up to it's so called launch.  There is a good reason DFO missed its so called launch.  There is a good reason the forums were shut down for several days.  There is a good reason the main web site has not been updated for a long long time.  There is a good reason these dudes at Adventurine struggle to get billing right in 2009 and then blame the custormers.  

The reason is the game is bad and the devs are clueless.  That's it.  Make all the excuses you need.  That won't change the fact that DFO will not recover from this horrid launch.

In your completely subjective opinion, which you have a right to.
 

PS: I have been playing this game for 6 weeks now.

Originally posted by ste2000

On the other hand, what Aventurine delivered:
- A Huge and beautiful world. OK
- Good Rogue system, need to be adjusted but it is working fine for the moment. No, the Rogue system is clearly one of the most flawed and useless ever, in fact they had to fix it on release date to make it less laughable, but it was not nearly enough
- PVP system fully implemented, working well and enjoyable. OK
- Excellent Guild management tool, better than any game I played. OK
- Full Loot, believe me this is quite fun, everyone should try it. OK
- Excellent Crafting, although at the moment not central to the economy, and gathering is a bit repetitive. Crafting is boring and stupid, the worst seen in a Sandbox game since UO. Gathering is not "a bit repetitive", it's a stupid macro-fest.
- Skill System, full implemented and a breath of fresh air in comparison of the usual level based crap. This Skill System is the most macro-friendly seen since UO and the most bland ever ... It just pales in comparison with EVE, Ryzom or UO itself.
- City building, fully implemented Actually the city building system is pretty cheap 
- Ship Building, fully implemented OK
- Sieges, fully implemented Sieging system is a joke
- Very few bugs, also considering the game has been tested by the public for just 1 month, so good job of the internal testers. This game is crawling with bugs and exploits, and it's state before public test was pathetic ... In fact anyone with half a brain knows that there was no professional internal testing at all
- The UI is functional and well made,  it is just not visually pretty, but that can be easily corrected The UI is pathetic, half of it is done with browser pages and you need hours to get used to it. 

Originally posted by minago

Originally posted by Nupe

On 29 August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website. Today is March 3rd, 2009. That’s almost 8 years in development. And what does this community and Aventurine have to show for it?

• Less than 6,000 users?
• None of which can stay logged in for over a few hours.
• Some of which get stuck in the world and never get out.
• Fragmented guilds/players who can’t even log in at the same time.
• A large portion of the community left out and behind due to a failed purchasing system.
• Double, triple, no charge no post-backs and other failures in the purchasing system.
• Shutting down customer support and forums because you simply couldn’t deal with the clients.
• The worst community relations of any MMO in history. (IRC cowboys != community relations)
• The only MMO in history to miss its own release date.
• The worst AI in the history of MMO’s
• The worst UI in the history of MMO’s (debatable I suppose!)
• The worst Quests in the history of MMO’s (Why did you even bother).
• The most tedious combat system in the history of ANY game FPS or MMO.
• Suppression of anything remotely negative about your performance as a service provider. And failure to take responsibility for your mistakes.

Now to be fair I want to talk about what they have done correct:
• PVP full loot.
• FFA PVP.
 

 

 

all those things are trivial when compared to alternative boring theme park games ...where every new one is a rehash of a rehash.

im gonna get this game when i can because its the type of game i want to play even with all the problems .

it has a small dev team like 5 people...so i understand 99% of what they are going though and will wait for my chance to get in.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow you really have no idea do you? You weren't in beta. It was amazing the first two weeks but then you realize, (if you're observative enough) that the game is very shallow. It's all about fighting and that does not make a MMORPG.

Also, the developer team consists of 30 people and they should damn well have their act together after 7 years.

Originally posted by WizGamer

Originally posted by minago

Originally posted by Nupe

On 29 August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website. Today is March 3rd, 2009. That’s almost 8 years in development. And what does this community and Aventurine have to show for it?

• Less than 6,000 users?
• None of which can stay logged in for over a few hours.
• Some of which get stuck in the world and never get out.
• Fragmented guilds/players who can’t even log in at the same time.
• A large portion of the community left out and behind due to a failed purchasing system.
• Double, triple, no charge no post-backs and other failures in the purchasing system.
• Shutting down customer support and forums because you simply couldn’t deal with the clients.
• The worst community relations of any MMO in history. (IRC cowboys != community relations)
• The only MMO in history to miss its own release date.
• The worst AI in the history of MMO’s
• The worst UI in the history of MMO’s (debatable I suppose!)
• The worst Quests in the history of MMO’s (Why did you even bother).
• The most tedious combat system in the history of ANY game FPS or MMO.
• Suppression of anything remotely negative about your performance as a service provider. And failure to take responsibility for your mistakes.

Now to be fair I want to talk about what they have done correct:
• PVP full loot.
• FFA PVP.
 

 

 

all those things are trivial when compared to alternative boring theme park games ...where every new one is a rehash of a rehash.

im gonna get this game when i can because its the type of game i want to play even with all the problems .

it has a small dev team like 5 people...so i understand 99% of what they are going though and will wait for my chance to get in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow you really have no idea do you? You weren't in beta. It was amazing the first two weeks but then you realize, (if you're observative enough) that the game is very shallow. It's all about fighting and that does not make a MMORPG.

 

Also, the developer team consists of 30 people and they should damn well have their act together after 7 years.

Exactly.  I can't even believe people are paying to play this game

sorry but Worst AI?  not even close, i've seen way crappier AI in countless other game.  Infact the AI is one of the good features.  Also quests?  this is a sandbox game, they dont have quest lines that stretch for more than the first few levels.

aside from that you nailed it on the head.  I think the biggest gripe is over a week later people still cannot buy the game.

Originally posted by cfurlin

Also, mobs don't stay in one place, like most MMOs. They run around you, back up to get more tactical advantage, among other things. People used to pushing the same hotbutton sequence to kill each and every mob are going to hate DF...and of course, whine about it.

 

yeah,they run around in circles every so often. and is left clicking really any different to hotkeys? hmm..HARDC0R3!

Originally posted by Death1942

sorry but Worst AI?  not even close, i've seen way crappier AI in countless other game.  Infact the AI is one of the good features.  Also quests?  this is a sandbox game, they dont have quest lines that stretch for more than the first few levels.

 

aside from that you nailed it on the head.  I think the biggest gripe is over a week later people still cannot buy the game.

You have no clue what sandbox game really is do you?

Originally posted by Talin

*sits back with a bag of popcorn, waiting for the show*

I do hope Darkfall has a trial someday, because they sure aren't getting my time or money without one.

I would DEFINITELY give this game a try if there was a free trial.  However....I think that's pretty unlikely considering the fact that the server (the ONE server) from most accounts I have read, has some stability issues that would cause it to crumble to dust under the weight of thousands upon thousands MORE people playing it on a trial.

But...one can always hope.

I did have some high hopes for this game, albeit I have only been "waiting" for it for a little over a year.  In that year, I have done a fair amount of reading about it, perusing their website, etc.  I originally came from UO, have played a LOT of MMOs since then, and really LONG for a good sandbox game that isn't ....what do they call it....isometric view?  EVE is okay, but I'm not really much of a "space girl"....lol.  Link Realms is AMAZING, but...again...the isometric(?) viewpoint. 

I just KNOW that SOME day, some company is gonna get this right.  I just don't know if Aventurine is going to BE that company.  I guess time will tell. 

Oh yeah, and.....

Can I have some of your popcorn?  I'm kinda hungry.....

You forgot to add that its one of the worst player communities to date.  Even constructive critism is met with unfair hatred.

So true. I swear, I'm going to snap if I hear "go back to WoW" one more time

Originally posted by Chaosas

You forgot to add that its one of the worst player communities to date.  Even constructive critism is met with unfair hatred.

 

So true. I swear, I'm going to snap if I hear "go back to WoW" one more time

Hey, go back to WoW then....(sorry, couldn't resist). :-)

Show me one MMO that doesn't have a fanboy base that berates everyone who doesn't agree with them and I'll show you an MMO that doesn't exist.

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by Chaosas

You forgot to add that its one of the worst player communities to date.  Even constructive critism is met with unfair hatred.

 

So true. I swear, I'm going to snap if I hear "go back to WoW" one more time

Hey, go back to WoW then....(sorry, couldn't resist). :-)

 

Show me one MMO that doesn't have a fanboy base that berates everyone who doesn't agree with them and I'll show you an MMO that doesn't exist.

It just so happens that some game's fanbase are more rabid than the next.  Darkfall has by far the most rabid fans and haters I have ever seen.  For such a small game it certainly has gained a large stigma.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by Chaosas

You forgot to add that its one of the worst player communities to date.  Even constructive critism is met with unfair hatred.

 

So true. I swear, I'm going to snap if I hear "go back to WoW" one more time

Hey, go back to WoW then....(sorry, couldn't resist). :-)

 

Show me one MMO that doesn't have a fanboy base that berates everyone who doesn't agree with them and I'll show you an MMO that doesn't exist.

It just so happens that some game's fanbase are more rabid than the next.  Darkfall has by far the most rabid fans and haters I have ever seen.  For such a small game it certainly has gained a large stigma.

I wouldn't say they are more rabid than in other games. I think its more easily recognized because Darkfall has THE most immature fanbase of any game to date (IMHO, of course).

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by Nupe

On 29 August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website. Today is March 3rd, 2009. That’s almost 8 years in development. And what does this community and Aventurine have to show for it?

• Less than 6,000 users?
• None of which can stay logged in for over a few hours
• Some of which get stuck in the world and never get out
• Fragmented guilds/players who can’t even log in at the same time
• A large portion of the community left out and behind due to a failed purchasing system.
• Double, triple, no charge no post-backs and other failures in the purchasing system.
• Shutting down customer support and forums because you simply couldn’t deal with the clients.
• The worst community relations of any MMO in history. (IRC cowboys != community relations)
• The only MMO in history to miss its own release date.
• The worst AI in the history of MMO’s
• The worst UI in the history of MMO’s (debatable I suppose!) -
• The worst Quests in the history of MMO’s (Why did you even bother).
• The most tedious combat system in the history of ANY game FPS or MMO.
• Suppression of anything remotely negative about your performance as a service provider. And failure to take responsibility for your mistakes.

Now to be fair I want to talk about what they have done correct:
• PVP full loot.
• FFA PVP.
 

 

So to recap.
Out of the account system, which obviously is crap, you made half of the bad things you got on your list.
The other half is made by the problems DF had the first 3 days of launch, which are now been sorted.

So I shortened your list as it should be:
- Crap account system, the fact they have to manually enter the details means that only few people got in game
- Technical problems the first 3 days, sorted already (AI, Sync and login problems)
- Understimation of Bandwidth and Server loads.
- PVE fairly disappointing...............but DF is mainly a PvP game so I believe is intended
- Shit PR and communications.
- They missed the launch day by 1 day..............hey they could have postponed the release for another 3 months like AoC and WAR (which they did 3 times each) but let's bash AV for 1 day.

All of the above could be avoided with better planning, so no excuses for Aventurine, the releae hasn't been succesful at all, we all agree with it, fanboys and haters.
There you go.
Everything else you mention, it's either not true or sorted already.

On the other hand, what Aventurine delivered:
- A Huge and beautiful world.
- Good Rogue system, need to be adjusted but it is working fine for the moment.
- PVP system fully implemented, working well and enjoyable.
- Excellent Guild management tool, better than any game I played.
- Full Loot, believe me this is quite fun, everyone should try it.
- Excellent Crafting, although at the moment not central to the economy, and gathering is a bit repetitive.
- Skill System, full implemented and a breath of fresh air in comparison of the usual level based crap.
- City building, fully implemented
- Ship Building, fully implemented
- Sieges, fully implemented
- Very few bugs, also considering the game has been tested by the public for just 1 month, so good job of the internal testers.
- The UI is functional and well made,  it is just not visually pretty, but that can be easily corrected

To me this seems a pretty good list of fully working features, which very few MMO with better budget can boast on release, so I will hardly call it a failure.
If it wasn't for the crap Account Infrastructure and the low bandwidth and server load estimation, this would have been the best release of a MMO after WoW, EQ2 and maybe WAR, but keep in mind AV has a fraction of the investment of those.
So we have now to queue up to buy the game, annoying yes, but at least I know that when I get in I will have a decent MMO to play just for a change.
If I have to choose between a bad release VS a crap game, I will go for the first any time.
 

ROFL just go to the darkfall forums and listen to real players complaining of the very things you claim AV did right.

1: sync lag issues are still at large people are sitll complaining about server stability. Much more now with the memory leak introduced  with the recent patch which they claimed they fix yet didnt.

2:Crafting is a borefest and is not one of the games qualities. many people in forum fall bash the crafting for being boring and repetitive you can hit 100 in crafting by making goblin axes alone there is absolutely No need to even venture on making other things.

3: the rogue system is shit and very exploitable with clans with multi races, just hack up your friends till your firendly again. shows how much it sucks

4: Universal banking makes reduces risk and is  very carebear for a hardcore game. thus naked people run rampart.

5: skill system is the biggest grindfest ever made to a game its even shitter than uo;s. Macro is what the majority of the players do even some of the biggest pvpers admit they macro. those who claim they do not macro are eons away from their macroing brothers and have a severe disadvantage.

6: The city system is a joke. you cannot keep enemies from entering it , they are predifined to locations which means they were ment to be built there you cannot build a city where you please so that ruins the very statement you made. Eve atleast allows you to build a station if you have the sov and it can be in your system of choice that you have sov in. i wont even talk about uo it speaks for itself.

7sieges is a complete joke its so broken AV even mentioned they are tying to fix it so its NOT fully implemented its a broken feature.

No More to see here move along

 IT"S A ZOMBIE THREAD! SHOOT IT IN THE HEAD! 

 Look at that post date jump from 3/05 to 4/14. 

I stay online for 8 or 9 hours at a time on a regular basis

The AI is not that bad sometimes buggy sometimes the best AI in a game you will have ever seen

The quests are actually kind of challenging. They do suck but they suffice.

There is no supression of negatibe comments.  They barely sensor their board at all unless you are a damn crackhead spamming

6000 users is a bs estimate

The client and servers (even though slightly unstable) are not pulling dark and light or even age of conan issues.  they are handling pretty well given the circumstances and size of battles.

I would not describe the combat as tedious.  There are some negative words for it but tedious is not one of them