But, personally, I think that games like Entropia Universe and Wurm Online would be decent if it wasn't for their effing ridiculous payment system, and utter mindless grind for sweat (never really got how to do that properly, but managed to save up enough money for a gun and bullets... Only for the bullets to run out after making back a thousandth of what I paid for them).

I don't know, I think they're half decent games, it's just the companies have no idea what the eff to do to make it work. A TEENCY bit less grind and the usual payment system, and I think they'd work quite well.

Anyone else agree?

 As far as I know, WURM is the standard payment? Maybe my assumtion was wrong, but that's what I thought I saw on their site. And for EU... it's special, I've never tried it because I heard its a either a big money sink, or a big money gain, I dont like gambling though :)

WurmOnline = Standard payment AND paying for money which allows you to set up your village and the like (which is pretty much the point of the game).

The thing is wurm is the standard payment is actually a little cheaper than most MMO's and the thing with villages is that they can provide a home for a group of players. The homesteads are for the idividuals but they are much cheaper. Overall buying a village or homestead doesn't make the game that expensive. You can play without those things quite easily, its better if you have them but its not a necessity like guns and ammo.

The problem I think with wurm is that it feels dead and lifeless to often. I think its the best MMORPG I've played and its created in the direction I'd like to see more MMO's take but in my opinion there needs to be something else to the game.

As for the blood sweet and tears, you can still build and craft quick enough to get some fairly instant gratification. Its not like roma victor were building a mud hut for a house would take you two days, in wurm its more like two hours for a stone house. I actually think they've balanced that aspect of the game very well.

I actually played for about a month or two with a bunch of people from the Bay12Games forums. We built a massive road to connect up new Rivendell and the White Light Highway, and then ended up rebuilding New Rivendell, before doing a massive exodus to the non-PvP isle.

Personally, I think the game's a hell of a lot of fun to play, I just disagree with the payment method, and how clunky some of the game is. Stuff like harvesting the briarthorns and stuff and then replanting them as a defence mechanism is genius, in my opinion.

how are you getting flamed for this again ??

Wurm originally wanted to go with a 100% traditional system.   However it would have ended up losing 20 to 30 percent of the population due to being a VERY multi-national game(some people would literally have to had to pay the eqivelent of a weeks of groceries with $10-$15 dollars a month).   Everyone was more than willing to pay for the game but it just wouldn't have worked as well as games that are almost entirely based in the "Far West".    It was the best compromise the developers were approached with.

Also if you wanted your own homestead(1 person land deed) you'd have to pay $10 the first two months, then another $10 every fourth or fifth month, and then $5 dollars for any other month for nomral service(this also included in the $10 dollar things which would get you 5 silver).     However that said a VAST majority of people NEVER EVER need to use silver to get anything and most people prefer barter unless they're used automatic merchants.    You don't even need to use silver to use the NPC traders because they will accept bartar as well.    As for larger villages(multiperson land deed) if a handful of people donate to upkeep it's not really that much to maintain them, and in the case of homesever villages these can be kept on light upkeep(weak guards) and the trader in the village will EASILY be able to support the village from junk you sell him.

All in I I'm in the belief that  a vast majority of the player base spends signifigantly less money than they would for a nomral MMO.  

________

However if you weren't going to play WurmOnline because the developers choose to completely NOT police real world transactions in any form(there are character trading/selling,  and even a few cases of trading larger ticket items  though both insanely rare) just because they have better things to do.    Then I wouldn't have anything to say since that I would consider a more than valid reason.   Though still a silly one because there aren't any commercieral people and never will be because of how the entire system is designed, would make it nearly impossible.

Wurm is fine. I totally agree with Entropia.

LIke I said in the EU forum here I'd rather have better loot and slower skill gain. At least I could support my character and develop them better. Having to keep pumping more money into the system without at least some type of gain makes me feel ripped off. I'm not trying to hit globals all the time, I just want to break even and skill up my character. Throw us a frigging bone MindArk. You aren't losing that much money are you? Help a player out.