Originally posted by Valetman

Originally posted by Ashrik

As to the argument over whether a 2k person battle is a laudable accomplishment or not, there are just too many considerations

 

The argument isnt whether its laudable, its whether its true.

 

Tasos claims 2000 people in A (singular) battle.

 

The players, including someone who has the devs ear (although he should probably give it back really, they need to listen to the playerbase real quick and it may help) , claim their were 2000 people in battles (plural) across the server.

The second is entirely feasible. The world is large and zones are segregated into quite a few server clusters.

 

The first is PR spin at best, another outright lie at worst.

Its akin to claiming 6 million player battles on WoW every night because half the population play on PvP servers.

Imo, the whole lingering on the "2000" figure is being shortsighted at best, and assuming that AV has threaded new ground is downright idiotic. If it indeed were MULTIPLE battles, then no, there's nothing revolutionnary, as im sure there are more than 2000 people battling it out on a single WoW server datacenter. If it is in a single battle, then how complex is the combat, and how much stuff is happening? If its just a half a dozen effects being exchanged then it just comes down to a trade-off between combat complexity and re-creating epic (read shallow) battles a-la 300.

Originally posted by tombear81

 2000 people blindly left clicking on one another until on or the other dies. I sense something terrible has happened 

Additionally,  not a single one of those 2000 people had FRAPS on ? I'd say is this a very late April Fools but since most of DF development and launch was one giant April fools... 

This is the really amazing part.  Out of those 2000 people which were probably watched by the devs.. none of them made a video of it?  All we get are the 300, 500 and now 2000 person fights posted about here on the forums.  But whenever you see a movie from the game, it is about 20v20 tops.    I have not seen anything that even looks as populated as an WOW AV movie I could make every 30 mins.

My guess is they had some pretty serious fights going on, and the devs checked the numbers and there were 2000 people online at the same time.. so another 'near truth' was told by Tasos... similar to 'we will never miss a launch date' or the 'game is feature complete already'.   Honestly, how does anyone believe anything he says after those comments.

Originally posted by bryan1980

Originally posted by tombear81

 2000 people blindly left clicking on one another until on or the other dies. I sense something terrible has happened 

Additionally,  not a single one of those 2000 people had FRAPS on ? I'd say is this a very late April Fools but since most of DF development and launch was one giant April fools... 

 

This is the really amazing part.  Out of those 2000 people which were probably watched by the devs.. none of them made a video of it?  All we get are the 300, 500 and now 2000 person fights posted about here on the forums.  But whenever you see a movie from the game, it is about 20v20 tops.    I have not seen anything that even looks as populated as an WOW AV movie I could make every 30 mins.

My guess is they had some pretty serious fights going on, and the devs checked the numbers and there were 2000 people online at the same time.. so another 'near truth' was told by Tasos... similar to 'we will never miss a launch date' or the 'game is feature complete already'.   Honestly, how does anyone believe anything he says after those comments.

The darkfall servers prob hold a shitload more people then wow servers.  the entire game of darkfall was made for that.  Wow decided against 2k works for them.

Non of those sieges are 20 vs 20.  You might only count 20 but their is alot of stuff happening in areas off the screen.  People are not going to all line up for a photo shoot so you can count.  Most of the sieges I have been were in the 100s and they happen rather commonly.

I really do not know about the 2000 thing.  hyperion can muster alot of people so it could be possible and if 2 nieghboring cities or more were getting sieged then ti is definitely possible,

Originally posted by gotha

 

The darkfall servers prob hold a shitload more people then wow servers.  the entire game of darkfall was made for that.  Wow decided against 2k works for them.

 

Non of those sieges are 20 vs 20.  You might only count 20 but their is alot of stuff happening in areas off the screen.  People are not going to all line up for a photo shoot so you can count.  Most of the sieges I have been were in the 100s and they happen rather commonly. Why not they do in every other game that I have played since FPS shooters and MMORPG's first started

 

I really do not know about the 2000 thing.  hyperion can muster alot of people so it could be possible and if 2 nieghboring cities or more were getting sieged then ti is definitely possible,  As I say below, PROVE IT OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN

I am tired of the BS being spouted by all the obsequeious sycophantic failbois and to be rather frank....PROVE IT OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

I have seen proof of 1400 unit battles in EVE, have seen battles in WoW, have seen battles in LII and FFXI and even EQ. Everyone of them had more people on screen then any battle I have seen to date from Dork-n-Failed hell I saw more people battling in GM events on Dark-n-Light. All I have seen is no more then 60 people ever on screen at one time in ANY picture or video of ANY Dork-n-Fail battle.

Your continous lying failbois is really getting tiresome and if you haven't noticed even on this site the hype is rapidly fading as people are discovering the truth about the lie that is Dork-n-Failed.

This is why i quit EVE.

from the thread linked in this thread:

"7 hours for 120 whole kills- Epic Eve PVP.*

*I am being sarcastic"

EVE has never EVER had functioning mass PVP. It's a lag filled crapfest.

Now on the topic of this thread. What has been described is not a battle. It was a apparently a campaign across a region.

That being said a campaign for a region of space in EVE consists of 15k+ players and can last months.

I don't see anything special or revolutionary here.

Now that i have a fresh bag of popcorn .. back to the drama! GO!

Originally posted by gotha

Originally posted by bryan1980

Originally posted by tombear81

 2000 people blindly left clicking on one another until on or the other dies. I sense something terrible has happened 

Additionally,  not a single one of those 2000 people had FRAPS on ? I'd say is this a very late April Fools but since most of DF development and launch was one giant April fools... 

 

This is the really amazing part.  Out of those 2000 people which were probably watched by the devs.. none of them made a video of it?  All we get are the 300, 500 and now 2000 person fights posted about here on the forums.  But whenever you see a movie from the game, it is about 20v20 tops.    I have not seen anything that even looks as populated as an WOW AV movie I could make every 30 mins.

My guess is they had some pretty serious fights going on, and the devs checked the numbers and there were 2000 people online at the same time.. so another 'near truth' was told by Tasos... similar to 'we will never miss a launch date' or the 'game is feature complete already'.   Honestly, how does anyone believe anything he says after those comments.

 

The darkfall servers prob hold a shitload more people then wow servers.  the entire game of darkfall was made for that.  Wow decided against 2k works for them.

 

Non of those sieges are 20 vs 20.  You might only count 20 but their is alot of stuff happening in areas off the screen.  People are not going to all line up for a photo shoot so you can count.  Most of the sieges I have been were in the 100s and they happen rather commonly.

 

I really do not know about the 2000 thing.  hyperion can muster alot of people so it could be possible and if 2 nieghboring cities or more were getting sieged then ti is definitely possible,

It's very easy to tell in a video if there are 40 people rather than 200.    .. and again, where is any type of video of this 2000 person battle.  That would be HUGE to see that many people.. not just 5-10 here and there.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

It's deceptive and it's not just semantics. A 2000 person battle is 2000 people fighting the same battle in the same place. 2000 people scattered over a map fighting in different groups for different  objectives is not a single battle. I very seriously doubt you can stand 2000 players idle in view of each other without massive lag much less fight a battle. If he wanted to tell the truth he could have said "we had thousands of players fighting concurrently on our server".  He wasn't trying to impress people with the truth he was peddeling horse manure.

Bingo.

It's Tasos being Tasos; spinning whatever he can however he can to hype up the game, as the fans happily prop it up as "gospel" without hesitation. 

To be sure... 2000 people fighting concurrently over a large area is not the same as 2000 people in a single, focused battle. Not even close. The latter would be impressive. The former is not. 

And... again... can't help but notice the lack of any screenshots or vids showing these hundreds of people going at it. Oh right... They were too busy fighting to film or screenshot any of it; even though in pretty much any other PvP MMO I've seen, people do it all the time. Believing anything Tasos or some fans say about this game pushes the limits to gullibility to new heights.

 

Originally posted by bryan1980

Originally posted by gotha

Originally posted by bryan1980

Originally posted by tombear81

 2000 people blindly left clicking on one another until on or the other dies. I sense something terrible has happened 

Additionally,  not a single one of those 2000 people had FRAPS on ? I'd say is this a very late April Fools but since most of DF development and launch was one giant April fools... 

 

This is the really amazing part.  Out of those 2000 people which were probably watched by the devs.. none of them made a video of it?  All we get are the 300, 500 and now 2000 person fights posted about here on the forums.  But whenever you see a movie from the game, it is about 20v20 tops.    I have not seen anything that even looks as populated as an WOW AV movie I could make every 30 mins.

My guess is they had some pretty serious fights going on, and the devs checked the numbers and there were 2000 people online at the same time.. so another 'near truth' was told by Tasos... similar to 'we will never miss a launch date' or the 'game is feature complete already'.   Honestly, how does anyone believe anything he says after those comments.

 

The darkfall servers prob hold a shitload more people then wow servers.  the entire game of darkfall was made for that.  Wow decided against 2k works for them.

 

Non of those sieges are 20 vs 20.  You might only count 20 but their is alot of stuff happening in areas off the screen.  People are not going to all line up for a photo shoot so you can count.  Most of the sieges I have been were in the 100s and they happen rather commonly.

 

I really do not know about the 2000 thing.  hyperion can muster alot of people so it could be possible and if 2 nieghboring cities or more were getting sieged then ti is definitely possible,

 

It's very easy to tell in a video if there are 40 people rather than 200.    .. and again, where is any type of video of this 2000 person battle.  That would be HUGE to see that many people.. not just 5-10 here and there.

If that is the case i highly suggest you diversify the amount of videos you watch on df.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNJs79Ik6eY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hfWVCJoJB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1BvfCLUcNI
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPX-8bipwN4

And this is just random off of youtube.  One in them I have been in (the yew one) and that was just one defending party.  We had a few more fronts and large groups in that battle.
 

Originally posted by gotha

Originally posted by bryan1980

Originally posted by gotha

Originally posted by bryan1980

Originally posted by tombear81

 2000 people blindly left clicking on one another until on or the other dies. I sense something terrible has happened 

Additionally,  not a single one of those 2000 people had FRAPS on ? I'd say is this a very late April Fools but since most of DF development and launch was one giant April fools... 

 

This is the really amazing part.  Out of those 2000 people which were probably watched by the devs.. none of them made a video of it?  All we get are the 300, 500 and now 2000 person fights posted about here on the forums.  But whenever you see a movie from the game, it is about 20v20 tops.    I have not seen anything that even looks as populated as an WOW AV movie I could make every 30 mins.

My guess is they had some pretty serious fights going on, and the devs checked the numbers and there were 2000 people online at the same time.. so another 'near truth' was told by Tasos... similar to 'we will never miss a launch date' or the 'game is feature complete already'.   Honestly, how does anyone believe anything he says after those comments.

 

The darkfall servers prob hold a shitload more people then wow servers.  the entire game of darkfall was made for that.  Wow decided against 2k works for them.

 

Non of those sieges are 20 vs 20.  You might only count 20 but their is alot of stuff happening in areas off the screen.  People are not going to all line up for a photo shoot so you can count.  Most of the sieges I have been were in the 100s and they happen rather commonly.

 

I really do not know about the 2000 thing.  hyperion can muster alot of people so it could be possible and if 2 nieghboring cities or more were getting sieged then ti is definitely possible,

 

It's very easy to tell in a video if there are 40 people rather than 200.    .. and again, where is any type of video of this 2000 person battle.  That would be HUGE to see that many people.. not just 5-10 here and there.

 

If that is the case i highly suggest you diversify the amount of videos you watch on df.  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNJs79Ik6eY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hfWVCJoJB0

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1BvfCLUcNI
 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPX-8bipwN4

 

And this is just random off of youtube.  One in them I have been in (the yew one) and that was just one defending party.  We had a few more fronts and large groups in that battle.
 

Lol, that shut them up eh?  I would argue that a 64 player map of counterstrike sports more people than WoW.  WoW isn't a MMO, its a poor excuse of an online RPG. 

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by Vince_G

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

2000 people is doable. When you have a handful of features, and a shallow combat system. Games with more features, and more complex combat mechanics have to give up large numbers to support them. Its give and take.

 

The only thing the Darkfall server has to keep track of is player position, and flat damage rates.

 

 

and your experience in actual Darkfall combat or battle is..?.

Pretty sure we both know he has already admitted to never playing the game, yet he seems to pretend like he knows the inner working of the Darkfall server infrastructure.

I don't pretend anything. What i said was completely true. I know how games, and client servers work, to a point. Darkfall is able to support so many players because its features are shallow, and not much data other than player position and a hand full of features, such as "Swing one",  "Swing two" and "Magic ball" are part of the net traffic (Even that is debateable to be handled server side, so the server are just relays to clients) during combat (with exceptions that im not going to list here, but things like atachments to rafts...etc..). I never claimed to know the inner working, but its quite evident by ANYONE with any sort of knowledge this is the case.

Even the entire guild system is out of game and hosted in a web server.

 

Bottom line, with shallow features, and a server cluster, yeah, 2k is doable. Like i said, its a game of give and take. Please stop acting like i'm talking bad about your retarded children or something, god, the zealotry is thick.

 

Vince_G is correct, to users IT DOSN'T MATTER. However, i enjoy discussing such things, but in no way am i going to say that what Darkfall has done is amazing, its just a side affect of a shallow design, and what i would hope, careful planing.

 

So knowing all that, you already know that the amount of features a game has means nothing when you talk about the amount of information being delivered between you PC and the games server. 

The ability of a games engine to put a large number of models on screen and still manage to function has nothing to do with the amount of features that game offers.

You're talking out of your ass and doing a poor job of it.  You know nothing about server infastructure or coding, stop pretending you do.  And for the record I know next to nothing myself.  Only those things I've learned over the years listening to my best friend and brother droll on and on about.

BTW, aren't you like, a raving LoTRO fanboy?

Weren't you doing the exact same thing in VG forum?

Cool, my video on random fanboy vs troll discussion! :) (the mahtisoturit one)

Count me as a fanboy ^^

Originally posted by Vince_G

Originally posted by andmiller

Pretty cool that their entire paying subscriber base was in this battle!  Here's to continually talking about a game that has about:

 

.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %

of the MMO player base!  Cheers!

 

(Or if you want to be truly accurate about:  .00066666667 % of the MMO crowd)

 

 

  A) DO you play Darkfall? If you did you would know that the battle was only a fraction of the player base.

 B) If your so worried about people talking about this game that apparently has such a small player base then why are you  posting here? 

 

That's really funny because darkfall don't even got 10k subs, nice fail on that.  btw 2,000 out of 10,000 is 20% if you can't do basic math.   oh wait you said fraction so 1/5 so I guess you're right it was a fraction of the player base >.<

Originally posted by Locklain

No, Blizzard's servers support 10k people at a time if I remember right.  What I want to know is where do these numbers come from?  All these posts of 100+ people battles with screenshots of 20-30 people.   If you have time to count your opponents, there aren't as many as you are thinking.

You'll never get an SS of more than that because most 100+ clan battles are split up to 5-10 20-50 man squads that are guarding/attacking 1 area. Even Doc Didn't have over 100 people fighting in 1 area.

Originally posted by Zippy

Hah 2000 person battle.   Does anyone actually believe that Darkfall has 2000 total subs. They must be counting people playing other games as part of this battle.

Well who knows how many subs it actually has , but I believe this is a Video of just one or two Clans enroute to a battle .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laNdYQWA6pQ&feature=related

Originally posted by summitus

Originally posted by Zippy

Hah 2000 person battle.   Does anyone actually believe that Darkfall has 2000 total subs. They must be counting people playing other games as part of this battle.

 

Well who knows how many subs it actually has , but I believe this is a Video of just one or two Clans enroute to a battle .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laNdYQWA6pQ&feature=related

DFO has 10k + subs.

A more pertinent question for me would be the performance for the rest of the server not anywhere close to the "2k" battle.

For those on the opposite side of the world, did they notice a difference in gameplay?  Lag? Sync issues?

Was the lag localized to just the immediate area surrounding the "2k" battle?

Were other smaller clans still able to conduct war in their area of the server?

It's all well and good that DarkFall can pull off some good-sized battles in a concentrated area.

 But if the rest of the server suffers with those who want to participate in it... then they have some work to do yet. 

I did only read the thread to page 2 but, coming from eve, battles are normaly titled with date/location they took place.

2k players fighting and spread about the world means nothing..

Can someone tell me if the "server" of Aventurine consists of serverclusters?

Originally posted by Ruyn

Isn't that like a whole WoW server?

It is another nonsense statement about the game that has never been proven. What I have seen, through videos, screens and in game, it has been 200 at most. Impressive but nowhere near 2000.

ive been in a 300 vs 300, and the Yssam Raid was apparently fun.

The general game itself handles Sieging awesomely,as long as you have a mid+ rig,and even low end,you can enjoy a decent siege.

i did actually manage to run into Paragus Last night, his clan had freehaven in our alliance Capital, and we both agree Darkfall is a diamond in the rough.

Noctis.

Originally posted by Locklain

No, Blizzard's servers support 10k people at a time if I remember right.  What I want to know is where do these numbers come from?  All these posts of 100+ people battles with screenshots of 20-30 people.   If you have time to count your opponents, there aren't as many as you are thinking.

 You obviously don't understand why everyone is concentrated in one spot for a screenshot to show everyone. It's called tactics. If you send everyone in one chunk together then they could become surrounded or flanked easily. My leaders on sieges/pvp raids usually send teams of scouts and flanking groups to keep information coming and to destroy enemy flanking groups its not all zerg vs. zerg. Not everyone would be be in one place. Darkfall is a huge world so people are spread out in large battles. I'm just trying to explain.

Just because you see more large scale battles from other games doesn't mean that Darkfall doesn't have any because people are scattered. That just proves that game like EVE / WoW are just zerg fests with minimal tactics while Darkfall battles require strategy and good decision\splitting forces\ flanking to confuse the enemy to win.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Lol, that shut them up eh?  I would argue that a 64 player map of counterstrike sports more people than WoW.  WoW isn't a MMO, its a poor excuse of an online RPG. 

I can't see anything going on in those vids, there looks to be about 100 people each side, at most.

In WoW, we had around 400 people and we held Stormwind Cathedral for a few hours, whilst the Alliance tried to batter us down. We ended up getting forced out, but only after a few HOURS of PvP. The courtyard was covered in bones. This was on Argent Dawn EU, where the Alliance outnumber the Horde about 2.3:1.

So, yeah, I'm fairly certain that WoW can support far more players than your poor excuse for an FPS.

( An event arranged by the same person, but just shortly before we did this raid, by a couple of days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXSI54ngrDc )

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by aqua61209

the 1000+ battles is a lagfest..they cannot support it at all because no other game even comes close but they are doing everything they can to improve it.

 

Fixed for truth.

That does not good, even after you rewrite aqua's line.

Jump off a cliff kills, no one ever managed to survive.  Tasos is working on a new way of expressing cliff jumps, so he ask you to jump the cliff, telling you: go jump, we were doing everything to improve the description of /splat.

So you jump?

Tasos also says a lot, on his website.  how gullible are you?

Fact is, games which deliver, consistently for years, cannot achieve that 1000 mark, and Tasos the turd who cannot deliver a game properly or handle a single 2/10 review, is suddenly so magnficient and is expected to be able to do it?  OK, dream on.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Isn't that like a whole WoW server?

2000 people battle / 2000 players battle. Person is never more than 1.

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

 You obviously don't understand why everyone is concentrated in one spot for a screenshot to show everyone. It's called tactics. If you send everyone in one chunk together then they could become surrounded or flanked easily. My leaders on sieges/pvp raids usually send teams of scouts and flanking groups to keep information coming and to destroy enemy flanking groups its not all zerg vs. zerg. Not everyone would be be in one place. Darkfall is a huge world so people are spread out in large battles. I'm just trying to explain.

Just because you see more large scale battles from other games doesn't mean that Darkfall doesn't have any because people are scattered. That just proves that game like EVE / WoW are just zerg fests with minimal tactics while Darkfall battles require strategy and good decision\splitting forces\ flanking to confuse the enemy to win.

Actually, in real strategy a tight formation usually wins the day. In Bannockburn for exaple was all the scots very tight together, helped by the terrain. If they would have scattered out they would have lost.

You do use flanks of course  but it wasnt until aircrafts and heavy guns/mortars showed up on the battlefield that armies started to split out more. Many of the battle in WW2 and Korea was fought in big units.

A hedgehog formation for one is very strong even if outflanked, it was extremly close to winning the battle of Hastings for the norse until William turned it all around.

Not everyone will be in exactly the same spot still but they would be in a big spread out formation. Sieges however are different than fieald battles and takes a lot more manpower to win.

MMOs are bad on simulating real battles of course and players are worse but I wouldnt call a lot of small fights on a very big area a battle, it is more a skirmish.

Why some people compare two principally different games like wow and darkfall?

anyway

just for the record

wow eu servers initiated with a rough 4000 - 5000 people capacity. That includes all original eu  servers like crushridge, argent dawn etc etc ( so many i forget right now)

later there was a first and a second upgrade and the fresh spawns with better hardware accomodate something like 10k ppl.

back to df

sieges df size are simply awesome and  you have to witness one to get the adrenaline rush i am talking about.