Originally posted by bmdevine

I haven't seen a civil discussion thread about this game yet, and I doubt I ever will.  I would probably try it if the shop were ever up for more than an hour or two at a time.  Can't say I have a good impression of the company behind it based on everything I've read, but I've definitely tried stinker games before, so if it is one, it wouldn't be the first.

In the end the problem isnt DF as much as the POS company that runs it. You can scream indie and small all you want but in the end they are still poorly run and managed. And in giving this company money it continues to make it where they have 0 incentive to improved their practices. People bitch all the time about companies like SOE and EA but AV ranks right there with them. Tasos is the new Sme, a guy that promised the world and instead delivered dog poop in a non flamable bag. 

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by bmdevine

I haven't seen a civil discussion thread about this game yet, and I doubt I ever will.  I would probably try it if the shop were ever up for more than an hour or two at a time.  Can't say I have a good impression of the company behind it based on everything I've read, but I've definitely tried stinker games before, so if it is one, it wouldn't be the first.

 

In the end the problem isnt DF as much as the POS company that runs it. You can scream indie and small all you want but in the end they are still poorly run and managed. And in giving this company money it continues to make it where they have 0 incentive to improved their practices. People bitch all the time about companies like SOE and EA but AV ranks right there with them. Tasos is the new Sme, a guy that promised the world and instead delivered dog poop in a non flamable bag. 

This I think everyone should be able to agree with. But Tasos completed his mission I suppose. Bended reality (or flat out lied) to get the hype and pre-release numbers. Should be sued for false advertisement though, especially with the outdated website.

With all do respect, when a company has 10k-20k accounts for their game, that doesn't make it game of the year.  Matter of fact, for a new release, that is pretty much crap.  As I've said all along, no one's opinion matters about ANY game other than your own.  It is important not to buy into hype and form your own opinion.  I'm glad you are enjoying the game.

Originally posted by altairzq

So you thought the trolls were right... and you go and buy the game?

You make no sense.

This is why you like DF.

Seven posts or seven thousand. I feel there is smoething mighty suspicous about the OP because of the quote above.

Is AV turning to viral marketing ? They need the money it seems. 

Originally posted by Shannia

With all do respect, when a company has 10k-20k accounts for their game, that doesn't make it game of the year.  Matter of fact, for a new release, that is pretty much crap.  As I've said all along, no one's opinion matters about ANY game other than your own.  It is important not to buy into hype and form your own opinion.  I'm glad you are enjoying the game.

 

True but had they had 100% availability from day one they might have crossed 60k or a bit higher by now. The limited release has hurt in ways no one will know for some time yet. A lot of the early adopters and game hoppers are lost most likely. And the hardcore folks who want to be a part of server firsts and the need to be ahead are lost at least until another server comes available. AV screwed the pooch in many ways but the limited nature of the game most certainly hurt. So the 10-20k although not impressive does have its reasons. One can assume if launched proper it would have 3-4x the numbers. at least for launch

Originally posted by MasterRyu

Lol...there hasn't been much bitching because these trolls finally got a hold of the game and are starting to enjoy it like everyone else.

Wrong ,the game is crap...

The trolls are not stupid enough to waste their money like you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAncbYBjofc

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Originally posted by Shard101

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Originally posted by MasterRyu

Lol...there hasn't been much bitching because these trolls finally got a hold of the game and are starting to enjoy it like everyone else.

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Wrong ,the game is crap...
 
The trolls are not stupid enough to waste their money like you.

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Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Shard101

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Originally posted by MasterRyu

 

Lol...there hasn't been much bitching because these trolls finally got a hold of the game and are starting to enjoy it like everyone else.

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Wrong ,the game is crap...
 
The trolls are not stupid enough to waste their money like you.

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And this is Shard's game- Warhammer:
 

 

it still has more players than darkfall, its more stable oh and you can buy it at the stores.

Originally posted by mcquaided

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by Shard101

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Originally posted by MasterRyu

 

Lol...there hasn't been much bitching because these trolls finally got a hold of the game and are starting to enjoy it like everyone else.

---

 

 
Wrong ,the game is crap...
 
The trolls are not stupid enough to waste their money like you.

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And this is Shard's game- Warhammer:
 

 

it still has more players than darkfall, its more stable oh and you can buy it at the stores.

But, then again, it is kinda boring, imo...

Originally posted by MasterRyu

Lol...there hasn't been much bitching because these trolls finally got a hold of the game and are starting to enjoy it like everyone else.

I think mostly people are just losing interest and moving on to other upcoming games, like TOR.

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Originally posted by mcquaided

it still has more players than darkfall, its more stable oh and you can buy it at the stores.

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I wouldn't really use subscriptions and WAR together in the same sentence if I was trying to promote it, or give it's good points in an argument.

Comparing the subscriptions to WAR and Darkfall is almost as bad as comparing the subscriptions to WAR and WoW so I wouldn't do that.

Darkfall has 10-15,000 subs? WAR has 300k (much less now though). WoW has 11-12 million.

Darkfall cost 30 million to make? WAR cost almost 100 million.

WAR is not successful going off subscriptions.

Originally posted by Paragus1

 funnest

"Funnest".... Laughing my fucking ass off.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by mcquaided

 

it still has more players than darkfall, its more stable oh and you can buy it at the stores.

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I wouldn't really use subscriptions and WAR together in the same sentence if I was trying to promote it, or give it's good points in an argument.

Comparing the subscriptions to WAR and Darkfall is almost as bad as comparing the subscriptions to WAR and WoW so I wouldn't do that.

Darkfall has 10-15,000 subs? WAR has 300k (much less now though). WoW has 11-12 million.

Darkfall cost 30 million to make? WAR cost almost 100 million.

WAR is not successful going off subscriptions.

are you sure?

even if war has 200k subs they are making around 3 mil a month. their box sales were close to 750k @ 50 they made about 37.5 back and after all these months since release war has prob made close to what was spent to make it.

darkfall is only 10 to15k subs @ 15 thats about 225k a month it is a huge differece since they have to pay 30 mil back, and those devs are Not working for free. 225k might be about the year income of 2 devs if not less. there really isnt a gain.

even if they charged every of the 15k ish members the 50$ they only made 750 k

war has gained 1/3 of what they spent on box sales alone which is a good.

darkfall only gained a marginal amount back on box sales. thats not good. regardless if its a small team  they need to make enough $$$ to sustain themselves and pay back  what they owe plus give the game maintence.  10 to 15k subs doesnt cover for it. they are not backed up by a huge publisher like ea that can whithstand the financial blow war caused them.

war can still recover or atleast pay back what was owed and then make a marginal gain.

darkfall is on the path of the beaten. They are stupid devs. They have alot of people who dont give a flying fuck about the mistakes the game has or the broken promises. they have people who are willing to play this game in its current state. Yet they deny them that privilage to play.

if they were to open2 new servers now and hit 50k subs they will be in the safe Zone if not become profitable due to their size.

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Originally posted by mcquaided

are you sure?
even if war has 200k subs they are making around 3 mil a month. their box sales were close to 750k @ 50 they made about 37.5 back and after all these months since release war has prob made close to what was spent to make it.
 

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Pretty sure.

Let's say Warhammer sold 750k boxes. First you are forgetting that they did not sell 750k boxes at $50. Why would Walmart buy 100k boxes from Mythic for $50 and then sell them to everyone for.. $50? They wouldn't. So right there if you buy it at Walmart for $50, you know Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Gamestop etc, did NOT buy it for $50. They probably bought bulk for $25-30 a box. I don't know how you don't see that simple business fact. Buy low, sell high.

Second, you or I have no idea what Mythic's overhead costs are, so I wouldn't even venture a guess. But one thing you and I do know is that it's SIGNIFICANTLY higher than Darkfall's overhead. Darkfall is bare bones, no PR. Few health benefits (how much does coverage cost for 15 employees? lol) There are no bonuses or anything at Aventurine and nothing but old debt. WAR has tons of that overhead so off of $15/mo, how much of that do you think they are really keeping? No way they are clearing $3 million dollars a month in Warhammer.

We have no idea what Darkfall developers were promised or hired at. But we can assume it was a LOT less given the country and economic conditions. I'm sure Mythic had to pay their people a lot more per average than Aventurine, and they have lots more of them. The first sign that they aren't clearing enough at Mythic was the layoffs.. two rounds. Whatever they are making, it's not enough or they'd be hiring and not cutting off development people, which is what they did last time around. So far, Aventurine hasn't laid anyone off yet, so it can't be THAT bad there, lol.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by mcquaided

 

are you sure?
even if war has 200k subs they are making around 3 mil a month. their box sales were close to 750k @ 50 they made about 37.5 back and after all these months since release war has prob made close to what was spent to make it.
 

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Pretty sure.

Let's say Warhammer sold 750k boxes. First you are forgetting that they did not sell 750k boxes at $50. Why would Walmart buy 100k boxes from Mythic for $50 and then sell them to everyone for.. $50? They wouldn't. So right there if you buy it at Walmart for $50, you know Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Gamestop etc, did NOT buy it for $50. They probably bought bulk for $25-30 a box. I don't know how you don't see that simple business fact. Buy low, sell high.

 

Second, you or I have no idea what Mythic's overhead costs are, so I wouldn't even venture a guess. But one thing you and I do know is that it's SIGNIFICANTLY higher than Darkfall's overhead. Darkfall is bare bones, no PR. Few health benefits (how much does coverage cost for 15 employees? lol) There are no bonuses or anything at Aventurine and nothing but old debt. WAR has tons of that overhead so off of $15/mo, how much of that do you think they are really keeping? No way they are clearing $3 million dollars a month in Warhammer.

 

We have no idea what Darkfall developers were promised or hired at. But we can assume it was a LOT less given the country and economic conditions. I'm sure Mythic had to pay their people a lot more per average than Aventurine, and they have lots more of them. The first sign that they aren't clearing enough at Mythic was the layoffs.. two rounds. Whatever they are making, it's not enough or they'd be hiring and not cutting off development people, which is what they did last time around. So far, Aventurine hasn't laid anyone off yet, so it can't be THAT bad there, lol.

if they lay 1 person off its over for em to much work.

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Originally posted by mcquaided

if they lay 1 person off its over for em to much work.

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True, that goes for any company nowadays; lose one technical person and your game suffers. No need to look any further than WAR to see that.

In any event, I was glad to be able to bring you up to speed on how box game sales work somewhat regarding wholesale/retail. It certainly was an interesting conversation and I'm always amazed at the "$50 box sold for $50 at no profit" argument, however obviously flawed it is.

Originally posted by wyrdaskolir

Until I bought the game to see if it was really a good game as many said and I am satisfied. You trolls out there look for every little small factor and makes more excuses to degrade darkfall. My experience in the game was very exciting. In the beginning the GUI was weird but after a couple hours I was used to it. There is so much to explain but trolls will not listen and flame this thread and me. I got in game and did the various beginning and crafting quests and then headed out to my guild city. This is where the good part comes.

I went on small raid groups with 20+ people and pillaged cities of our enemies. I felt the adrenaline rush when we attacked the inhabitants. This game is exceptional for tactics as when it gets dark, it is realllllly dark and you can stealth and ambush others. An example of tactics is when in our raid group we were going to attack and loot the main city of the enemy alliance. It was at night and we had to hide ourselves in order to gain an advantage and kill them with less effort. We hid behind several bushes and giant boulders and sent two scouts to gather information. They crossed the shallow river and crouch walked along the way whilst hiding behind everything that the environment provided. When we had the information we could decide how we would execute our attack. In this case there were equal amounts of people so we decided to let the 2 scouts lure a few of them out and then we would ambush them. It worked and we took down around 1/3-1/2 of them eventually but had to escape because they had reinforcements on mounts in the distance.

I don't understand why there are so many trolls.  The positives outweigh the negatives ultimately. This is a really fun game and will continue to be attracting more customers in the future.

um.... congrats?

enjoy the game, i'm sure you've earned/deserve it.   

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by mcquaided

 

it still has more players than darkfall, its more stable oh and you can buy it at the stores.

---

 

I wouldn't really use subscriptions and WAR together in the same sentence if I was trying to promote it, or give it's good points in an argument.

Comparing the subscriptions to WAR and Darkfall is almost as bad as comparing the subscriptions to WAR and WoW so I wouldn't do that.

Darkfall has 10-15,000 subs? WAR has 300k (much less now though). WoW has 11-12 million.

Darkfall cost 30 million to make? WAR cost almost 100 million.

WAR is not successful going off subscriptions.
 

i read the other discussion about boxes and subs, farther in the thread past the quoted.

even if it's down to 250,000 subs for war (and war has been out how long?), that's what? 15 times what darkfall has, at only 3x the cost of darkfall?

$5 X 250,000 subs > $15 X 15,000 subs.... yes?

$2 X 250,000 subs is like twice $15 X 15,000 subs.

overhead, such as personnel, yes, mythic/ea might be paying loads more for their personnel, but isn't it still a larger team at mythic/ea vs darkfall?   i mean, mythic/ea has no problems updating their website, nor publishing update notes.

just sayin'...

The "trolls" were right..

Originally posted by oddjobs74

The "trolls" were right..

How so ?   i am playing DarkFall.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by oddjobs74

The "trolls" were right..

 

How so ?   i am playing DarkFall.

But you are the yin to the trolls yang. Its the people in the middle of the spectrum that matter the most and it does appear that they are the ones posting the negative reviews and leaving. The trolls will not play and the fanboys such as yourself would have played with the peanuts from tasos poo if it needed to be. In most games we are the least important focus. As with political elections its all about the undecided and independents.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by oddjobs74

The "trolls" were right..

 

How so ?   i am playing DarkFall.

Trolls where right. This game is so full of vapor you can fall thru the world endlessly , they prob put some planks in those areas by now.

But the vapor now fills your memory causing you to constantly crash so now you need to dedicate tons of hardrive space to deter crashing.

Darkfall The game you go to the darkplaces in it and fall endlessly.

Originally posted by mcquaided

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by oddjobs74

The "trolls" were right..

 

How so ?   i am playing DarkFall.

Trolls where right. This game is so full of vapor you can fall thru the world endlessly , they prob put some planks in those areas by now.

But the vapor now fills your memory causing you to constantly crash so now you need to dedicate tons of hardrive space to deter crashing.

Darkfall The game you go to the darkplaces in it and fall endlessly.

creatio ex nihilo !

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by mcquaided

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by oddjobs74

The "trolls" were right..

 

How so ?   i am playing DarkFall.

Trolls where right. This game is so full of vapor you can fall thru the world endlessly , they prob put some planks in those areas by now.

But the vapor now fills your memory causing you to constantly crash so now you need to dedicate tons of hardrive space to deter crashing.

Darkfall The game you go to the darkplaces in it and fall endlessly.

 

creatio ex nihilo !

 

 

a tu madre !

Originally posted by mcquaided

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by mcquaided

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by oddjobs74

The "trolls" were right..

 

How so ?   i am playing DarkFall.

Trolls where right. This game is so full of vapor you can fall thru the world endlessly , they prob put some planks in those areas by now.

But the vapor now fills your memory causing you to constantly crash so now you need to dedicate tons of hardrive space to deter crashing.

Darkfall The game you go to the darkplaces in it and fall endlessly.

 

creatio ex nihilo !

 

 

a tu madre !

Darkfall goes latin..?