Player Housing for Depth, for souvenirs of adventures and for a bit fun besides fighting.

Originally posted by charlesf

Why is player housing so high up on the wish list of so called mmo players?

Wtf r u supposed to do with housing...sit home and watch the fireplace...?

Do u also want your very own cleanin biatch?

MMO's should be about adventure, pvp stuff like that.

Go out get your stuff, live in barracks while moving thru friendly zones, move fkin on...

go play sims if u need housing...

I believe a higher number of casual players are looking at MMOG's as a means of socializing and want the depth and immersion in owning a piece of virtual property as a means to escape the real world. The housing in a virtual environment gives them a sense of being part of a virtual world and a connection to the social aspect.

I know in DaoC my house in amongst the guilds housing area and was a gathering place for the off time when we did not want to really do anything but socialize. It was a fun part of the game and it gave role play meaningful immersion. I enjoyed the time in game decorating my house with my trophies. It was a connection to the virtual world that I missed when I stopped playing. I missed the house more than the game itself.

In game housing is a hot topic in a lot of the game forums. I am probably going to get flamed here but IMHO. Developers are making games, well games and not making them with a social network. MMOGS are not meant to be social networks now days according to them I guess and these online communities suck so casual players are driven to make due with what is available.

Some may argue that housing is taking the player out of the mainstream and instancing them away from everyone. I say that when I go to take a shit I don't want the neighborhood coming to hold my hand. A house give me private time and still allows me to socialize.
 

Originally posted by demc

Originally posted by charlesf

Why is player housing so high up on the wish list of so called mmo players?

Wtf r u supposed to do with housing...sit home and watch the fireplace...?

Do u also want your very own cleanin biatch?

MMO's should be about adventure, pvp stuff like that.

Go out get your stuff, live in barracks while moving thru friendly zones, move fkin on...

go play sims if u need housing...

 

I believe a higher number of casual players are looking at MMOG's as a means of socializing and want the depth and immersion in owning a piece of virtual property as a means to escape the real world. The housing in a virtual environment gives them a sense of being part of a virtual world and a connection to the social aspect.

I know in DaoC my house in amongst the guilds housing area and was a gathering place for the off time when we did not want to really do anything but socialize. It was a fun part of the game and it gave role play meaningful immersion. I enjoyed the time in game decorating my house with my trophies. It was a connection to the virtual world that I missed when I stopped playing. I missed the house more than the game itself.

In game housing is a hot topic in a lot of the game forums. I am probably going to get flamed here but IMHO. Developers are making games, well games and not making them with a social network. MMOGS are not meant to be social networks now days according to them I guess and these online communities suck so casual players are driven to make due with what is available.

Some may argue that housing is taking the player out of the mainstream and instancing them away from everyone. I say that when I go to take a shit I don't want the neighborhood coming to hold my hand. A house give me private time and still allows me to socialize.
 

./bump

Originally posted by charlesf

well asking for features like player housing should be just about last on the list for any mmo targetting a large base. Housing may b ok for niche players and markets.

But the concept sucks, coz the game should centre around the environment not your pile of bricks u would like to call a house.

 

I am in no way implying that you play WoW, but if WoW had housing (almost irrelevant how good it'd be, based on other game comparisons) it'd be the cream of the crop, and any game released without would be shunned by former WoW players.

I agree that housing is a nearly lost part of MMOs, and it needs to be brought back.

And to add another quick point - housing brings yet another customizable feature to any MMO that has them.  My only *real* experience with housing in an MMO was my happy little instanced mog house in FFXI, and I also had a brief run-in with them in EQ2.  In FFXI I loved my house - I'm a packrat by nature and I was always after the furniture that boosted my storage space and in general made my house look cool.  It certainly took nothing away from the game if you completely ignored it, either, and could be treated simply as an instanced bank if that's all you wanted from it.  No harm there. 

As for EQ2's housing; tbh I found it to be a bit too feature-filled just based on 3 former TRIAL experiences.  Yeah, I never even set foot in my own house - can't do it on a trial.  What I found though, in that game, is that it did kill some degree of socialization by letting players apparently access the game's markets etc. through their house.  My more recent trial of EQ2 gave me the impression that the game was dead on its most popular server because towns are all but empty, mostly thanks to noone gathering around an auction house/bank/etc..  From all I know, people must've just been hanging in their houses if they were in towns, which made the joint look like a ghost town.  From all I read, EQ2 houses are your bank, crafting stations, auction house, etc. and that's just over the line because it does kill the impression that others are playing, especially in such a vast game.

Damn, quick point became wall of text. SOB.

Guess OP never played UO.

Player housing adds villages, places to hang out and socialize. It adds places to defend, attack, organise events.

It's a place to meet up, craft, trade, gather, show off accomplishments.

And it adds all sorts of tradeskills because some people will want to craft, sell and/or buy furniture and add-ons for houses.

I want housing only if it is built seamlessly into the world like SWG. I want this because it gave me a place that I could call my own and it allowed us to make our own player cities. Also I loved decorating it and seeing what other people done with their homes and I loved how you could turn them into malls and have your vendors and sell your goods.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by charlesf

haha i dont remember housing in Conan..i thot they were always on the move...isnt that what games are supposed to be? as said before if u need housing for immersion, u need to be looking for a diff kind of mmo, rather than expect the current crop of mmo's to provide you with housing.

 

You are right, the current crop of MMOs don't provide housing. Also an odd coincidence that the current crop of MMOs completely suck.

You are also right, I am looking for a different kind of MMO. I'm looking for the kind that requires an active brain. I'm looking for the kind that encourages social interaction. I'm looking for the kind that used to be made, before they started being massed produced for the inept masses. SWG had an awesome housing system(only one major flaw which was easily fixable if SOE was at all competant). Great game.

WTF are you talking about? VG has housing which is just as good as SWG housing,plus vast guild castles and villages of different types. You can load your house up with an immense number of items just like SWG,all in the real world and not instanced because there is no instances in VG.

There will ALWAYS be something more important to fix than add something as essentially useless as player housing. If a game is lucky enough to have nothing to patch, or fix, then maybe consider housing.

I have actually played Anarchy Online, a game with player housing, and no players that I knew bothered with it.

Originally posted by Dibdabs

There will ALWAYS be something more important to fix than add something as essentially useless as player housing. If a game is lucky enough to have nothing to patch, or fix, then maybe consider housing.

I have actually played Anarchy Online, a game with player housing, and no players that I knew bothered with it.

Sight!

Have you ever thougth MMO game play doesn't suits your needs?

I know people that logged in SWG that never ever used a wepon. I know some that didn't even craft items either.

And you know what, not only they had much fun but it was a blast interacting with them.

Housing is a really nice addition to an MMO as it gives you something else to do than to kick monsters.
 

From my point of view an MMO with combat game only play is boring. I'd rather play counter strike or DOA.

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by paulscott

Play Wurmonline seriously for a month and you'll come to love housing. 

 

Though I will admit housing DOES NOT make sense for nearly every game on the market.  None for "World of Everclone", and even only a little bit for even your niche games like Darkfall or EvE(atleast for most of the player base).

 

Depends on what you consider 'housing'. Many EVE players live in POSes (player owned structures). You can setup guns to defend them, do research, park ships in them, refit, craftm mine minerals, etc. Even in high sec many are setup for researching prints

 

 

EvE does indead have housing and better housing than most games,  however it's not something that affects a "good" majority of the players directly(on through market prices, and similar).

Originally posted by skeaser

MMORPG

We want housing because it's a Role-Playing Game.

Sadly, due to the popularity of your mentality, the role playing elements are disappearing and we are getting stuck with games with nothing to do but quest and craft. No benefit for exploring, no housing, no open worlds, just quest after quest.

 /agreed.

It is a sad sad turn that WoW has taken us. From MMORPGs where players became part of the world, to MMORPGs where players are simply passing threw it on the way to their next game.

I already have a real house...who needs one in a game.

Originally posted by Horusra

I already have a real house...who needs one in a game.

Someone who wants:  Crafting bonuses, a special spell casting abilites(golemancy, spirit bonding, whater),  more storage(assuming the game has limited storage), and anything else you could toss a stick at.

You say "I don't see why we need housing," I say "I don't see why we need pve."

Housing is an awesome addition and one that I look forward to in a mmo (dammit, FFXI! why did it make it self-only?!)

Originally posted by paulscott

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by paulscott

Play Wurmonline seriously for a month and you'll come to love housing. 

 

Though I will admit housing DOES NOT make sense for nearly every game on the market.  None for "World of Everclone", and even only a little bit for even your niche games like Darkfall or EvE(atleast for most of the player base).

 

Depends on what you consider 'housing'. Many EVE players live in POSes (player owned structures). You can setup guns to defend them, do research, park ships in them, refit, craftm mine minerals, etc. Even in high sec many are setup for researching prints

 

 

 

EvE does indead have housing and better housing than most games,  however it's not something that affects a "good" majority of the players directly(on through market prices, and similar).

sigh you obviously dont play EVE Online. Research slots in Empire are HARD to come by. It's a rare resource and the queues are many months. Thus, you need make deals with a POS owner to install your blueprint there to research

Your post 100% untrue. POSes have an important impact on economy. Some crafters/inventors even predicted the market would crash once Goons messed up BoB because they were a major supplier of moon minerals, etc

Originally posted by warpp

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by charlesf

haha i dont remember housing in Conan..i thot they were always on the move...isnt that what games are supposed to be? as said before if u need housing for immersion, u need to be looking for a diff kind of mmo, rather than expect the current crop of mmo's to provide you with housing.

 

You are right, the current crop of MMOs don't provide housing. Also an odd coincidence that the current crop of MMOs completely suck.

You are also right, I am looking for a different kind of MMO. I'm looking for the kind that requires an active brain. I'm looking for the kind that encourages social interaction. I'm looking for the kind that used to be made, before they started being massed produced for the inept masses. SWG had an awesome housing system(only one major flaw which was easily fixable if SOE was at all competant). Great game.

WTF are you talking about? VG has housing which is just as good as SWG housing,plus vast guild castles and villages of different types. You can load your house up with an immense number of items just like SWG,all in the real world and not instanced because there is no instances in VG.

 

First, I wouldn't really call VG "current", it has been out for how long now? I'm talking more about the games released in the last 3-4 years or so.

Second, I look for more in a game than just housing, but housing is a really big bonus. SWG still has the same housing it had before(in fact I think it may have just been upgraded a little), but I don't play that game any more because it's a hunk of crap. I also won't play VG because it is an SOE game, so I won't just out of principle.

Originally posted by talismen351

Originally posted by skeaser

MMORPG

We want housing because it's a Role-Playing Game.

Sadly, due to the popularity of your mentality, the role playing elements are disappearing and we are getting stuck with games with nothing to do but quest and craft. No benefit for exploring, no housing, no open worlds, just quest after quest.

 

 /agreed.

It is a sad sad turn that WoW has taken us. From MMORPGs where players became part of the world, to MMORPGs where players are simply passing threw it on the way to their next game.

Very very nicely said.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by warpp

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by charlesf

haha i dont remember housing in Conan..i thot they were always on the move...isnt that what games are supposed to be? as said before if u need housing for immersion, u need to be looking for a diff kind of mmo, rather than expect the current crop of mmo's to provide you with housing.

 

You are right, the current crop of MMOs don't provide housing. Also an odd coincidence that the current crop of MMOs completely suck.

You are also right, I am looking for a different kind of MMO. I'm looking for the kind that requires an active brain. I'm looking for the kind that encourages social interaction. I'm looking for the kind that used to be made, before they started being massed produced for the inept masses. SWG had an awesome housing system(only one major flaw which was easily fixable if SOE was at all competant). Great game.

WTF are you talking about? VG has housing which is just as good as SWG housing,plus vast guild castles and villages of different types. You can load your house up with an immense number of items just like SWG,all in the real world and not instanced because there is no instances in VG.

 

First, I wouldn't really call VG "current", it has been out for how long now? I'm talking more about the games released in the last 3-4 years or so.

Second, I look for more in a game than just housing, but housing is a really big bonus. SWG still has the same housing it had before(in fact I think it may have just been upgraded a little), but I don't play that game any more because it's a hunk of crap. I also won't play VG because it is an SOE game, so I won't just out of principle.

Abrahmm I love your posts but I must 'respectfully' agree with the other poster that Vanguard is current. And I dont blame you for ignoring SOE products after what happened to SWG Pre-CU. I cant even pretend like I understand I wasn't there :(

Now I agree with you that I too look for more then housing. I would play VG but just knowing I gotta travel the Level based treadmill is not an exciting prospect. Plus I'm just sure the PVP has gotta be crappy like one would expect for PvE mmo.

Some people are a part of the attention deficit disorder generation.  That is to say, anything devoid of action and they find it extraneous.  Reflection, introspection, roleplay and the idea of a virtual world type game are viewed as a waste of time.  They want a nonstop action rollercoaster or they start yawning because they aren't being properly enterained and thrilled.

It's scary to think where the genre is going, because developers I think, often erroneously target their games for younger audiences when there are plenty of older gamers out there wanting more depth, more immersion, etc.  Instead we are getting solo player action games with an mmo skin.  It's depressing.  I've even started playing Chess and reading books again.  That's how bored I am with these new games targeted at the new generation.

Originally posted by Terranah

Some people are a part of the attention deficit disorder generation.  That is to say, anything devoid of action and they find it extraneous.  Reflection, introspection, roleplay and the idea of a virtual world type game are viewed as a waste of time.  They want a nonstop action rollercoaster or they start yawning because they aren't being properly enterained and thrilled.

 

It's scary to think where the genre is going, because developers I think, often erroneously target their games for younger audiences when there are plenty of older gamers out there wanting more depth, more immersion, etc.  Instead we are getting solo player action games with an mmo skin.  It's depressing.  I've even started playing Chess and reading books again.  That's how bored I am with these new games targeted at the new generation.

Housing leads to more solo gameplay. You don't need a group to decorate your house.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by charlesf

haha i dont remember housing in Conan..i thot they were always on the move...isnt that what games are supposed to be? as said before if u need housing for immersion, u need to be looking for a diff kind of mmo, rather than expect the current crop of mmo's to provide you with housing.

 

You are right, the current crop of MMOs don't provide housing. Also an odd coincidence that the current crop of MMOs completely suck.

You are also right, I am looking for a different kind of MMO. I'm looking for the kind that requires an active brain. I'm looking for the kind that encourages social interaction. I'm looking for the kind that used to be made, before they started being massed produced for the inept masses. SWG had an awesome housing system(only one major flaw which was easily fixable if SOE was at all competant). Great game.

I loved the housing and guild halls of SWG and people really went all out to make theirs look unique. Some were turned into shops with multiple merchants some just displaying rare items they collected and so on. I am so glad I took a lot of pictures of the housing in SWG, I never would of guessed housing would never be like that again.

/Agree ,this is in fact my taste ,i like player-house,

i only play game where player-house are in game,because

true mmorpg have player-house!(ultima online).:)

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Terranah

Some people are a part of the attention deficit disorder generation.  That is to say, anything devoid of action and they find it extraneous.  Reflection, introspection, roleplay and the idea of a virtual world type game are viewed as a waste of time.  They want a nonstop action rollercoaster or they start yawning because they aren't being properly enterained and thrilled.

 

It's scary to think where the genre is going, because developers I think, often erroneously target their games for younger audiences when there are plenty of older gamers out there wanting more depth, more immersion, etc.  Instead we are getting solo player action games with an mmo skin.  It's depressing.  I've even started playing Chess and reading books again.  That's how bored I am with these new games targeted at the new generation.

 

Housing leads to more solo gameplay. You don't need a group to decorate your house.

Actually my house in it's entirety did require a group.  Because in it's construction and the construction of it's furnishings, many people were involved.  And my friends and I exchanged gifts like paintings and such to help each other decorate.  The end product was a furnished house, but to get to that point  miners, crafters, merchants, friends, a city mayor, etc. were all involved.

Houses can be a setting were you and a group of friends can RP, or meet and plan the days events, or show off one's achievements or decorating skills.

Some of my buddies built houses in the same area as I did around a lake.  More people moved close by, and eventually we formed a community and ultimately a small city.  Later,  we formed a militia and protected our city from invasion.  We fought in the streets, inside our businesses and from our homes to repel hostile forces.

Housing is not just about putting a painting on a wall or putting a vase on a table.  That's very unimaginative. 

I'm not entirely sure the OP isn't just posting this to piss everyone off but either way I think he brought up an interesting and much needed "debate".

Personally I come from the "younger generation" because I'm 19 years old, I'm not into RPing (on a serious level, maybe just to screw around, although it can be fun) and I haven't played many of the originial MMOs. I haven't played UO and the first wave of MMOs but I've played enough MMOs to know what I think is good and true to the original idea of an MMORPG. Throughout my endevours a few games I've tried that I've really liked have been L2, FFXI and SWG (pre-CU). Some of them had player housing (in one way or another), some had player owned cities/castles in L2's case. Of those you may never had the chance to own a town or castle or you didn't have to really pay attention to your house.

The point I'm trying to make is MMOs have lost a significant level of immersion. As in you actually felt like you were a part of a world, you cared about your character (other than the fact that you've dedicated X amount of hours to it), there was stuff to do other than kill MOBs and get gear, you felt like you were part of a community and you interecated with other players for fun and/or because you liked to help out, etc.

However, the recent crop of MMOs are so one-dimensional. It's really just a linear game with no "ending".

In the end, it isn't just about player housing, it's about the experience of living in this world and enjoying teamwork and the people around you (not just because you're raiding for gear, it's more than that). Whether it is to role-play or not. Unfortunately that has been lost of late and MMORPGs have simply turned into just another game where the objective is to get through all the content, some of which you don't need other players, some requiring others because of a raid.

So, you "older gamers" don't feel discouraged. There are others in my generation (im assuming im not the only one) that enjoy these "older generation" MMOs. Sorry for the length of the post/WOT btw haha.

Originally posted by whatamidoing

I'm not entirely sure the OP isn't just posting this to piss everyone off but either way I think he brought up an interesting and much needed "debate".

Personally I come from the "younger generation" because I'm 19 years old, I'm not into RPing (on a serious level, maybe just to screw around, although it can be fun) and I haven't played many of the originial MMOs. I haven't played UO and the first wave of MMOs but I've played enough MMOs to know what I think is good and true to the original idea of an MMORPG. Throughout my endevours a few games I've tried that I've really liked have been L2, FFXI and SWG (pre-CU). Some of them had player housing (in one way or another), some had player owned cities/castles in L2's case. Of those you may never had the chance to own a town or castle or you didn't have to really pay attention to your house.

The point I'm trying to make is MMOs have lost a significant level of immersion. As in you actually felt like you were a part of a world, you cared about your character (other than the fact that you've dedicated X amount of hours to it), there was stuff to do other than kill MOBs and get gear, you felt like you were part of a community and you interecated with other players for fun and/or because you liked to help out, etc.

However, the recent crop of MMOs are so one-dimensional. It's really just a linear game with no "ending".

In the end, it isn't just about player housing, it's about the experience of living in this world and enjoying teamwork and the people around you (not just because you're raiding for gear, it's more than that). Whether it is to role-play or not. Unfortunately that has been lost of late and MMORPGs have simply turned into just another game where the objective is to get through all the content, some of which you don't need other players, some requiring others because of a raid.

So, you "older gamers" don't feel discouraged. There are others in my generation (im assuming im not the only one) that enjoy these "older generation" MMOs. Sorry for the length of the post/WOT btw haha.

You're very well spoken, Thank you for your insightful and honest post! 

I do agree, the level of MMO's ability to greab you and hold your facination with their story and or features seems to be going downword.

I did play UO, from the 2nd age until EQ came out, this debate was made then and its still continuing today.

EQ had no player housing, and mostly resembled today's WoW.  Many UO players protested the features of the game but ultaimtely decided they prefered 3d over "pseudo" 3d (Over head zelda ish).

I really do think that EQ had a lot of good features that a game like UO could have benefited from, but no one ever molded the two concepts together very well.  A game that has both a high level of NPC interaction with Quest assited leveling and all the features that sandboxy people would be able to sit around and toy with for years, like Fishing (well thought out fishing) and Player Housing, all that stuff.

They keep getting closer and closer to this though, perhaps in the next few years we'll see a really well polished game that has all the features both sides of the camp can enjoy.