I played VG last time in Jan. 09, and then it was dishearting empty, even at US prime times. Quite depressing, and quite difficult to find groups for anything. Generally a game is never really dead while some play it, but by all means it is QUITE dead. Alas. It had some adorable things, vast world, interesting classes and races and some stuff, but I dont see its gonna be repaired and rise again ever. Which really is a pity IMO.

Originally posted by Elikal

I played VG last time in Jan. 09, and then it was dishearting empty, even at US prime times. Quite depressing, and quite difficult to find groups for anything. Generally a game is never really dead while some play it, but by all means it is QUITE dead. Alas. It had some adorable things, vast world, interesting classes and races and some stuff, but I dont see its gonna be repaired and rise again ever. Which really is a pity IMO.

If you were on the PvP server, yep, that coulda been empty.  But certainly not Seradon or Xeth.  Both are doing very well with population and Seradon is actually getting a bit too over-populated.

Personally, I think (and this is pure conjecture) is that Vanguard is a failure and kept alive mostly as a training ground and experimentation lab for Sony's game programmers.  Throw a new guy on Vanguard to learn the ropes about MMO's, or implement some new idea in Vanguard to see how it might be of value for later MMO's.

Like I said, just a guess, but were I Smedley, that is what I would use Vanguard for.

What Pen said sounds right.

Boojoo is funny. Seredon and Xeth...overpopulated. Ha! You're a propaganda master, sir.

Xeth and Seradon are FAR from being overpopulated. When people come and ask me if I had to pick a game that will last for a while. I hate to be honest with them, but I tell them VG is not the one.

And for those thinking (play the game), I am playing the game but it doesn't make me not know that in reality, VG is not going to be the game of the future.
 

 I play on Halgar which is considered less populated server then Xeth or Seradon. And I have no issues with seeing people running around or finding a group. Almost everyone I was inviting to join party, agreed even if they overgrown content. So I dont find VG dead and empty.

There are people on there but the world seems too  big to bump into any of them unless someoens doing an alt and your in the same starting area.

Originally posted by emperorwings

There are people on there but the world seems too  big to bump into any of them unless someoens doing an alt and your in the same starting area.

Honestly, I dont care about crowds. I saw crowds in WoW and I never spoke or grouped with 99% of those people. So why worry?

The thing that makes me sad is the population the game used to have back at launch. We was at what? 250,000 players? Now that was something, was jammed packed on all servers across the board. Now...*shrugs* not even a 1/10th of what it used to be. To say that it's DEAD, nah, its not dead until the servers are unplugged. But the game certainly isn't going up, but not saying its going down either. If you're looking for a temporary solution until another game launches, then have at it. But if you're looking for a long term option, I'd have to say look elsewhere.

Vanguard is not a dead game. IMO it is one notch above The Matrix and Planetside.  Vanguard at present is just filler for SOE's station access.  Vanguard has around 4 to 5 devs working on it so if you are expecting regular major updates you will be waiting a long time.

PoTA will be released soon, part of it is on test so there is something to look forward to, but the problem that will arise shortly after PoTA when alot of players have reached the new level 55 endcap is all they have to look forward to is endless runs of PoTA. until more content is released, which like I stated you will mostly likely have long periods of time between each content release.  IMHO the VG devs have messed up upping the endcap because you won't be able to get to mix PoTA up with APW due to it most likely will be trival by the time you finish PoTA.

Another thing to remember SOE will not invest any resources into the game, they do not care for the game, they have new babies taking all of their attention, VG and it's community are lucky to be spared an after thought. I get frustrated that SOE will not release the potential in this game.  The above is not a bash, the devs are trying to work miracles trying to keep everyone happy with their limited resources.  If SOE invested the resources into VG fixed the bugs which have been present since release, give it a coat of polish, revamp some of the major areas like they did with Khal (why their stopped beggers belief) and relaunch the game with an advertising campaign I could see the fortunes of the game turned around. 

At present it has a top notch community and one of the best PvE experiences/class design's on the market (IMHO).  If you can look pass the bugs (none are what I would call game breaking) and are not to bothered about the end game or just looking for something to play whilst waiting for the next big title I would recommend VG due to the massive amounts of content provided on the journey to end cap.  As long as you stay in the popular areas/quest lines to begin with, population issues will not be a problem.  Once you have a good friends list or guild going of the beaten track to explore the less popular areas will not be problem.

VG has the potential (the most overused word in the VG community) to be the best PVE mmo on the market. As of right now would I say it is IMO, no. As for bugs, yes alot of bugs in game currently are game breaking (not as say big as the previous ones), but more and more bugs arise with every patch that are exploited to give someone an edge.

The only reason why VG is above The Matrix and Planetside is because of the niche community its pitched to (of course Fantasy being larger than Sci-Fi), and the fact that VG is not as old as the two. Like you said Buc, it is a filler game for the SOE Station Access. That's my problem there and why I can't see it or say that it is the best PVE mmo on the market.

The VG  Dev team is so small now that everytime they focus on some content, there will be 1 bunch of players who are left out. For example, when they worked on SoD, who got left out? Soloers/casuals. When they worked on IoD who got left out? High levelers/raiders/veterans. With PoTa who are they screwing over? Anyone who hits 55 because it trivializes every piece of content in game.

The fact I have been playing the game for going on 3 years come time August, the devs continue to underestimate player ability and thus puts them in a hole where they are always playing catch up. The only way they have put a lock-hold on player progression is by making mind-numbing faction grinds or breaking raid mob mechanics to the point where they are a wate of time.

Alot of the high end content is being done because there is nothing else to do and people log in because they want to try and watch people have fun. Again I know I sound like I'm flaming but I'm not. This is coming from a guild leader/raid leader/tester who has seen this game from day 1 to what it is and believe me. The agony, the emotion, and the sheer turnover ratio that the game has to me simply isn't one I would want to bring a new player who hasn't played an MMO in his or her life to. And I definately wouldn't want to not fill the expectations of a veteran either.

Originally posted by mindw0rk

Originally posted by emperorwings

There are people on there but the world seems too  big to bump into any of them unless someoens doing an alt and your in the same starting area.

 

Honestly, I dont care about crowds. I saw crowds in WoW and I never spoke or grouped with 99% of those people. So why worry?

 

Over-crowding on Seradon does cause issues because of contested content and there is no instancing.  Don't get me wrong, I hate everything about instancing, which is one of the major strengths of Vanguard.  For example, Ancient Port Warehouse is very crowded now and although the wing checks are good ways to keep guild from running over one another, 100+ players in a shard is starting to hurt performance.

Even for non-raiders it's become an issue.  Someone logged on this past Friday after work looking for some casual soloing in Razad or Afrit for Searing stone gathering and had a very time finding any mobs.... two chunks were almost stripped clean.

I doubt over-crowding will be an issue for low and mid-level content because there is SOOOO much of it.  As someone said in another thread, you could level up several alts and never go to the same place or do the same quests twice until you get into your 30s.

VG is a game with an OPEN world. Barely any instances. Massive plains, deserts, forests... And imho a terrible waste of space....

Why? This game would be perfect to be a Darkfall lite kinda title. Without the full loot, and stupid UI but with everything else. Theres already so much in place: very robust and complicated crafting; diplomacy that should be even more expanded and have real impact on the game not just small buffs and massive landmasses without instancing

Imagine Your guild owning Khal or New Targonor, PvP with others over massive terrain and dividing it between player guilds. This game should never be about PvE only content. It's just too big.

Of course that's all fantasy because the game would have to be redesigned, massive amounts of money poured in to already comatose title.

Originally posted by triprunner

VG is a game with an OPEN world. Barely any instances. Massive plains, deserts, forests... And imho a terrible waste of space....

Why? This game would be perfect to be a Darkfall lite kinda title. Without the full loot, and stupid UI but with everything else. Theres already so much in place: very robust and complicated crafting; diplomacy that should be even more expanded and have real impact on the game not just small buffs and massive landmasses without instancing

Imagine Your guild owning Khal or New Targonor, PvP with others over massive terrain and dividing it between player guilds. This game should never be about PvE only content. It's just too big.

Of course that's all fantasy because the game would have to be redesigned, massive amounts of money poured in to already comatose title.

You can also look at the massive land and ocean territories another way.. immersion.  They aren't empty, they just don't have quests or mobs that bring folks there on a regular basis.  I love the fact that if I want to harvest in solitude with no competition from other players, I can hop on my Griffon fly out to some isolate place in SE Qalia and harvest to my hearts content.  I also like the fact that my fishing buddy and I can explore the oceans in his Galleon looking for a prime fishing spot with depths of over 800 meters (found 2 so far).

Telon is not a simple and  contrived set of instances that the game force-funnels players through.

Originally posted by ionscorp

I cannot seem to find any reviews on the current state of Vanguard. Is it dead? Are they ever going to do an expansion? Should I new player consider buying the game or is the population diminished?

The game might as well be dead. Here are the reasons why.... 1, the world is HUGE. It was intended to have a huge populataion of players. If you have a very small population of players in a HUGE world, then essentially you have a ghost town. 2. The player base is notorious for driving people away, they tend to have a vocal community that is so elitist and verbally abusive, that it would shock even the most cocky player of any other game community. 3. The changes that need to be made in order for the game to attract a larger audience is protested by this small group of players because it is counter to their RPing and PvE insecurities. Sony needs to rerelease the game as an expansion, giving it an overhaul, dirx 10 (which the original developers planned), stronger PvP design to go along side the PvE (which runs out quickly).

So basically the unlikely has to happen, and thus the game might as well be dead, for it is certainly going in that direction.

Much to my amazement, the population seems to be rising at a fairly rapid pace.  I played a month or two ago, and I didn't bump heads with anyone outside of trial island.  Today, there's people all over the place.

Vanguard is back, and it is good.

Vanguard could be an amazing game if some changes went in. For me personally, they really need to redesign the con system. The dots only serve to segregate their community, and in its current state that is a bad thing.

With the age of the game, it is rather difficult for someone to come into the game and do most of the content because it is group based.

Grouping is fine and good as long as you can get one, which in this day and age is not an easy thing.

SoE has done quite a bit to save it from the initial release. I give them credit for that, but i take away for things like item mall and lack of push to bring it back quicker than it is.

With a proper sized development team, vg could be a nice standalone platform for somebody.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by ionscorp

I cannot seem to find any reviews on the current state of Vanguard. Is it dead? Are they ever going to do an expansion? Should I new player consider buying the game or is the population diminished?

 

The game might as well be dead. Here are the reasons why.... 1, the world is HUGE. True It was intended to have a huge populataion of players. If you have a very small population of players in a HUGE world, then essentially you have a ghost town. 2. The player base is notorious for driving people away, they tend to have a vocal community that is so elitist and verbally abusive, that it would shock even the most cocky player of any other game community. False 3. The changes that need to be made in order for the game to attract a larger audience is protested by this small group of players because it is counter to their RPing and PvE insecurities. False Sony needs to rerelease the game as an expansion, giving it an overhaul, dirx 10 (which the original developers planned), stronger PvP design to go along side the PvE (which runs out quickly). False

So basically the unlikely has to happen, and thus the game might as well be dead, for it is certainly going in that direction.

Wow!  It's amazing how many wrong things one person can say in a single post.  The only thing he got right is that Telon is a huge world.  He obviously hasn't played VG in a long time.

As others have correctly stated, the VG community is very helpful to noobs and I should know as I only started playing a few months back and that has been my experience.

When Im checking a less played MMO, I always find three things important:

1. Playerbase.

- I dont care if its a small community, as long as they are helpfull to new players.

This certainly is the case with VG.

2. Player made websites that are updated regurarly.

- With most more complex MMO's you will find a lot of usefull information on playermade websites.

In the case of Vanguard, lot of the websites are outdated. The stickied link on the main forums doesnt work for a while now. This is not a good sign.

3. How fast newly introduced bugs are being addressed.

- Games with low amount of subs like Vanguard dont have much manpower to deal with new updates and bugs. But what is important to me is how fast newly introduced bugs (with updates) are being addressed. This will determine if I feel the game is moving forward, or just moving 1 step forward and 1 step back.

In VG's case this is also worrying, because after resubbing I noticed two things : 1. Diplomacy levers on the starting island dont work anymore (they did use to work). 2 Performance which was greatly improved about a year ago, has grown worse again (No hardware changes on my side, still had the client installed and had to tune down graphics)

In conclusion : To me, Vanguard doesnt seem to improve much. SWG (another SOE game with low amount of subs and skeleton dev crew) seems to move forward with the speed of light if compared to the progression of Vanguard.

I went back for  3+ months.Just quit along with my wife.Reason...little game improvement and a refusal on my part to make the game my full time occupation to progress characters.I haven't found a replacement but have decided I will only play FTP games until  until.

Originally posted by Ionselon

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by ionscorp

I cannot seem to find any reviews on the current state of Vanguard. Is it dead? Are they ever going to do an expansion? Should I new player consider buying the game or is the population diminished?

 

The game might as well be dead. Here are the reasons why.... 1, the world is HUGE. True It was intended to have a huge populataion of players. If you have a very small population of players in a HUGE world, then essentially you have a ghost town. 2. The player base is notorious for driving people away, they tend to have a vocal community that is so elitist and verbally abusive, that it would shock even the most cocky player of any other game community. False 3. The changes that need to be made in order for the game to attract a larger audience is protested by this small group of players because it is counter to their RPing and PvE insecurities. False Sony needs to rerelease the game as an expansion, giving it an overhaul, dirx 10 (which the original developers planned), stronger PvP design to go along side the PvE (which runs out quickly). False

So basically the unlikely has to happen, and thus the game might as well be dead, for it is certainly going in that direction.

 

Wow!  It's amazing how many wrong things one person can say in a single post.  The only thing he got right is that Telon is a huge world.  He obviously hasn't played VG in a long time.

As others have correctly stated, the VG community is very helpful to noobs and I should know as I only started playing a few months back and that has been my experience.

Yes it must be false because you a new player has said so. You sir are a champion of logic. Im sorry to inform you but everything stated in my post has been true, never have I stated there will not be a few helpful individuals, they are are however quickly drowned out by the vocal hate crew if you alert them to your presence. Vanguard as it stands its a club, its a club with a sign that says "no X allowed", they dont want your kind if you prove to be nothing like them. The man behind Vanguard even admitted that the community it drew has damaged the game. Vanguard is a game that will never be perfected, nor allowed to reach a larger audience, because the community for the most part prevents that from happening.

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by ionscorp

I cannot seem to find any reviews on the current state of Vanguard. Is it dead? Are they ever going to do an expansion? Should I new player consider buying the game or is the population diminished?

 

The game might as well be dead. Here are the reasons why.... 1, the world is HUGE. It was intended to have a huge populataion of players. If you have a very small population of players in a HUGE world, then essentially you have a ghost town. 2. The player base is notorious for driving people away, they tend to have a vocal community that is so elitist and verbally abusive, that it would shock even the most cocky player of any other game community. 3. The changes that need to be made in order for the game to attract a larger audience is protested by this small group of players because it is counter to their RPing and PvE insecurities. Sony needs to rerelease the game as an expansion, giving it an overhaul, dirx 10 (which the original developers planned), stronger PvP design to go along side the PvE (which runs out quickly).

So basically the unlikely has to happen, and thus the game might as well be dead, for it is certainly going in that direction.

Hmmm.. I don't think there is a single correct statement in that post :)  While I think the falsehoods are obvious for anyone that plays VG or has read a review I think the most important thing to point out is that the Vanguard community is generally an older player-base that is extremely helpful to newer players to help them with the rather steep learning curves.  There's a number of volunteer guides that take turns hanging out on Isle of Dawn to help folks out.

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by triprunner

VG is a game with an OPEN world. Barely any instances. Massive plains, deserts, forests... And imho a terrible waste of space....

Why? This game would be perfect to be a Darkfall lite kinda title. Without the full loot, and stupid UI but with everything else. Theres already so much in place: very robust and complicated crafting; diplomacy that should be even more expanded and have real impact on the game not just small buffs and massive landmasses without instancing

Imagine Your guild owning Khal or New Targonor, PvP with others over massive terrain and dividing it between player guilds. This game should never be about PvE only content. It's just too big.

Of course that's all fantasy because the game would have to be redesigned, massive amounts of money poured in to already comatose title.

 

You can also look at the massive land and ocean territories another way.. immersion.  They aren't empty, they just don't have quests or mobs that bring folks there on a regular basis.  I love the fact that if I want to harvest in solitude with no competition from other players, I can hop on my Griffon fly out to some isolate place in SE Qalia and harvest to my hearts content.  I also like the fact that my fishing buddy and I can explore the oceans in his Galleon looking for a prime fishing spot with depths of over 800 meters (found 2 so far).

Telon is not a simple and  contrived set of instances that the game force-funnels players through.

I have to say, that is the reason that I subscribe to Vanguard. I love the huge world. I love being able to go forever and just explore.

This game was dead on arrival.  Being part of the station pass allows them to keep their doors open, but this game will never realize it's pre-launch potential.  If they had found a way to launch the game in a better state, it might have had a chance, but the game will never live down the sorry state it was in at launch. 

Hopefully game developers can take a lesson from that and stop thinking it's OK to launch a buggy, unfinished game with the intent of correcting the issues after launch.  You never get a second chance to make a first impressing.  Maybe you could get away with it a few years ago, when there were two or three MMOs on the market, but not when there are 20 other choices.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

This game was dead on arrival.  Being part of the station pass allows them to keep their doors open, but this game will never realize it's pre-launch potential.  If they had found a way to launch the game in a better state, it might have had a chance, but the game will never live down the sorry state it was in at launch. 

Hopefully game developers can take a lesson from that and stop thinking it's OK to launch a buggy, unfinished game with the intent of correcting the issues after launch.  You never get a second chance to make a first impressing.  Maybe you could get away with it a few years ago, when there were two or three MMOs on the market, but not when there are 20 other choices.

Although I agree the launch was an unmitigated disaster the game has recovered very nicely since then.  It'll never have the type of subscriber numbers it would have if the launch had been a success and they capitalized on all the hype and kept those 200k folks. 

That said, the population continues to grow consistently and as a player that works just fine.  At this rate, maybe there is an additional server or two added down the road, but Vanguard will probably never get back all the population it had a launch.  But in the end, that is neither here, nor there.  It's a very well done and fun MMO for those that like traditional PvE MMOs and as long as the population continues to grow that is a healthy game in my opinion.