Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by MastaRyu

Yeah I remember those speedhacks in WoW.  And Everquest, I remember those too.  But oh well, speedhacks exist in everygame.  Can't catch them up.

 

Yes they may be in every game, but the games you listed are more PvE oriented.  In PvP focused game a speed hack is BY FAR more of an impact. Especially when you run the risk of loosing your gear to a cheeter.  

That makes me wonder about something.  Ok say you are out getting your PvP on.  When you get killed by a speedhacker.  Luckily for you, you had fraps running at the time.  You turn the video over to AV (assuming they do their job), they ban the guy.  Do they give you your stuff back?  Since technically it wasn't a fight you would have been able to win anyway with the person speedhacking.

Originally posted by Roin 

That makes me wonder about something.  Ok say you are out getting your PvP on.  When you get killed by a speedhacker.  Luckily for you, you had fraps running at the time.  You turn the video over to AV (assuming they do their job), they ban the guy.  Do they give you your stuff back?  Since technically it wasn't a fight you would have been able to win anyway with the person speedhacking.

Step 2 doesn't matter because Step 1 never happens. (They never do anything about it.)

Originally posted by Benthon

Originally posted by Roin 

That makes me wonder about something.  Ok say you are out getting your PvP on.  When you get killed by a speedhacker.  Luckily for you, you had fraps running at the time.  You turn the video over to AV (assuming they do their job), they ban the guy.  Do they give you your stuff back?  Since technically it wasn't a fight you would have been able to win anyway with the person speedhacking.

 

Step 2 doesn't matter because Step 1 never happens. (They never do anything about it.)

/yep cant get to step 2 :P

Same  hack can be used in warhammer online , this is not a specific issue with darkfall online but in all games that have some kind of pvp ranking system :

www.youtube.com/watch

Originally posted by solareus

Same  hack can be used in warhammer online , this is not a specific issue with darkfall online but in all games that have some kind of pvp ranking system :

www.youtube.com/watch

In WAR when you die.. Do you lose all of your gear?  (don't answer that)

Point: Hacking in DF hurts people more than hacking in WAR.

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by solareus

Same  hack can be used in warhammer online , this is not a specific issue with darkfall online but in all games that have some kind of pvp ranking system :

www.youtube.com/watch

 

In WAR when you die.. Do you lose all of your gear?  (don't answer that)

 

Point: Hacking in DF hurts people more than hacking in WAR.

You ack like this is all new to mmorpgs , hacking has been apart of the genre as much as gold farmers. You either learn to except, or go play something else. I've never seen people act like this has never happened in Lineage 2 or Shadowbane, or any other game where you can lose your gear.

here is atip :)

Learn to Bank :)

Originally posted by PatchDay

new hacks popup all the time I'm looking at a bunch for WoW on youtube vids. there is no perfect method for detecting if packets being routed from client to server is being modified.

Not to sound like an instigator but I m very tehnical and  have some discrepancies to correct you on.  First there are several methods of detecting packet tampering.  You can buy hardware devices now that do his for you or you can setup a system with software (IDS).  If you change the information in the packet the size of the packet changes from the standard. Packets are broken down to a standard size and if that size changes there is packet tampering. I can build systems to sniff for these and drop them with no response to the originator.  Anywho, believe me the people with the skillset are not wasting their time hacking and selling WoW gold or accounts.  The  return is puny compared to what they would most likely be doing for a living.  There wouldn't even be  "a rush of the hack" feeling.

Also no way to verify memory corruption. If software engineers could easily validate memory modification, then you would not have buffer overruns

Server side you should at least check for the velocity the player is moving at. I dont know why MMOs don't do this. Simply test the magnitude of the velocity. If it exceeds the threshold you got a speed hacker

If they are moving at the threshold or less then they are at least within acceptable range

 

MagnitudeSquared is a quick test and cheap CPU cost. Will bypass the performance loss for a square root calculation

Sounds like a lot of gibberish, I can however tell you in speedhacking packets flow at an accelerated rate.  This sets off red flags in most established security measure systems.  Very easy to detect imo, at the end of the day yes many games have hacks to some degree and there was no reason for the retaliator to try pick on WoW.  

Darkfall will have many hacks until they figure out what security measures they will use.  I bet dollars to donuts they have none at the moment. If they do it is probably some default standard out the box crap.

Hater much. 

 

Originally posted by solareus

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by solareus

Same  hack can be used in warhammer online , this is not a specific issue with darkfall online but in all games that have some kind of pvp ranking system :

www.youtube.com/watch

 

In WAR when you die.. Do you lose all of your gear?  (don't answer that)

 

Point: Hacking in DF hurts people more than hacking in WAR.

You ack like this is all new to mmorpgs , hacking has been apart of the genre as much as gold farmers. You either learn to except, or go play something else. I've never seen people act like this has never happened in Lineage 2 or Shadowbane, or any other game where you can lose your gear.

here is atip :)

Learn to Bank :)

You must be new to the genre within the last 5 or 6 years.  Gold Farmers were NOT common practice.  Hacking was NOT a common practice (exploiting was though, and Most Respectable Companies would turn back the server when to where the exploit wasn't hampering the server)

You'd also see companies dealing with hackers in a different way.. like: Implementing Software on their server to detect cheats, Shut down the server until they could figure out when was being exploited/recoded.

Also, hacking in those games wasn't as wide spread due to the client/server interaction.  GG.

Pc Gaming, since 1985.

Gold farming can, aproximately, be divided into three phases[1]:

* Phase 1/Commercialisation: online game players began to barter items during the 1980s. At some point in the late 1980s, in-game items began to be sold for money. Full commercialisation began in 1997 due to two factors: the launch of Ultima Online as the first true MMORPG, and the launch of eBay. Gold farming was still a relatively small activity: a cottage industry undertaken by players in the US and Europe who saw a way to make extra money.

* Phase 2/Offshoring: from 2001/2002, entrepreneurs in the US and South Korea saw the opportunity to make more money from gold farming by hiring players working on low-cost locations; especially China. One brokerage in particular, IGE, was massively successful, earning millions of dollars per month, and dominating the market.

* Phase 3/Challenges: from 2005/2006, gold farming faced a series of challenges: game companies began to ban accounts and take legal action; eBay was persuaded to stop listing online game currency and items; games were redesigned to make gold farming and trading much harder; and entry of lots of new firms led online currencies to devalue heavily against real currencies. Lots of new brokerages, each with their own web portals and customer relations teams, were set up. Gold farms began to shift to lower-cost locations.
 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_farming

Seasoned mmo players arent going to come on a forum and cry about something that has been apart of gaming since the nintendo, cheating happens, get over it, there is nothing special about this exploit over any other exploit in any genre. It is apart of gaming and If you fail at knowing this then you must be new to games online in the past week.

 

Seasoned mmo players arent going to come on a forum and cry about something that has been apart of gaming since the nintendo, cheating happens, get over it, there is nothing special about this exploit over any other exploit in any genre. It is apart of gaming and If you fail at knowing this then you must be new to games online in the past week.

<Mod Edited>

exploiting and cheating in single player games means crap. No one is affected and all you did was ruin your experience with the game or completed a game that was impossible for you to beat normally.

now when it is a competitive game where you COMPETE AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE , EXPLOITING AND CHEATING affects other peoples experience with the game, thus your damaging and ruining the fun of others at the expence of you having fun.

there is a damn huge difference and anyone with common sense will know that. you cannot just brush off  hacking or exploiting in competitive pvp ffa loot games like darkfall because cheating has been going rampart in other games.

oh and for future reference cheating has been going on wayyyy before nintendo. your argument is completely invalid for the fact that you cannot compare cheating  from a single player game to cheating in a multiplayer game.

Never said I support cheating or it is "ok". It is just apart of pvp gaming, and anyone who has played pvp games , knows this and is nothing new. THe most powerful solution for people playing, is quit playing and cancel your sub.

This guy on the official forum summed it up pretty well:

"Originally Posted by Vesavius
This game is just rotten to it's core.

Such a shame to see it go down like this... screwed by the players it was built to please."

Originally posted by solareus

Pc Gaming, since 1985.

 

Gold farming can, aproximately, be divided into three phases[1]:

* Phase 1/Commercialisation: online game players began to barter items during the 1980s. At some point in the late 1980s, in-game items began to be sold for money. Full commercialisation began in 1997 due to two factors: the launch of Ultima Online as the first true MMORPG, and the launch of eBay. Gold farming was still a relatively small activity: a cottage industry undertaken by players in the US and Europe who saw a way to make extra money.

* Phase 2/Offshoring: from 2001/2002, entrepreneurs in the US and South Korea saw the opportunity to make more money from gold farming by hiring players working on low-cost locations; especially China. One brokerage in particular, IGE, was massively successful, earning millions of dollars per month, and dominating the market.

* Phase 3/Challenges: from 2005/2006, gold farming faced a series of challenges: game companies began to ban accounts and take legal action; eBay was persuaded to stop listing online game currency and items; games were redesigned to make gold farming and trading much harder; and entry of lots of new firms led online currencies to devalue heavily against real currencies. Lots of new brokerages, each with their own web portals and customer relations teams, were set up. Gold farms began to shift to lower-cost locations.
 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_farming

 

Seasoned mmo players arent going to come on a forum and cry about something that has been apart of gaming since the nintendo, cheating happens, get over it, there is nothing special about this exploit over any other exploit in any genre. It is apart of gaming and If you fail at knowing this then you must be new to games online in the past week.

Wow.. way to prove my point.  That is.. Gold FARMING was NOT the norm.. and neither should hacking. What part don't you get??? 95% of companies take action to stop hacking.  They look at the root of the problem, they handle things server side.. The only threat from aventurine is: If we catch you hacking you are banned.. See the phrase there? CATCH??   Another shil who dismisses AV's ways to further empower them to behave badly.

The proof of how prevalent hacking is can be seen by the 'fanboy' videos on youtube.

They are bragging about how good the game is, post a nice video of some good 10 v 10 battle, but what you always notice is that whomever is posting the video, just happens to be able to insta-loot.

One of the features of darkfall was 'slow-looting'..  it was supposed to be dangerous to stop in the middle of a big fight to loot someone.  However, a hack was put out very fast that allowed insta-looting and pretty much everyone is using it.  It is used so commonly and openly that people who make these videos don't even feel the need to edit it out.

While every game will have peope who find a way to hack something for a very short time.   There are no pay2play mmorpgs that have the percentage of players using hacks as Darkfall.  One of the first things I heard from my guild when I joined was where to get a few 'needed' hacks.

Originally posted by Random_mage

HAcking has been apart of gaming since Half life 1.

Still waiting for the "new" apsect that is specifically a Darkfall problem.  It is an industry problem, as well as a game developers. To come in a forum and whine about how you lost your loot to hacks , it seems to me, that Darkfall is not the game for you. Go play something else, simple as pie. I recommend Shadowbane, it is still got a great population and the mechanics of character development are about as good as it gets.

The problem is: in a PvP game with consequences such as Darkfall, hacking will have a greater impact than a PvE MMORPG.

If you think cheating at single player games is doing the same damage with competitive MMORPGs featuring long term goals, you are wrong.

I think players who got annoyed by losing gear to a cheater or something have the very right to complain. It's the company's responsability to keep their server clean. At least I don't think it has gone THAT rampant, or maybe people using "downloadable skills" are being subtle when using them.

Originally posted by Routver

The problem is: in a PvP game with consequences such as Darkfall, hacking will have a greater impact than a PvE MMORPG.

If you think cheating at single player games is doing the same damage with competitive MMORPGs featuring long term goals, you are wrong.

I think players who got annoyed by losing gear to a cheater or something have the very right to complain. It's the company's responsability to keep their server clean. At least I don't think it has gone THAT rampant, or maybe people using "downloadable skills" are being subtle when using them.

True but they cant release a game thats client side

As far as I can tell, Darkfall is a "video - game" which is no different then any other" video-game" which has been exploited. Every player of any game would think they are more important then anyone elese. Darkfall is no different, it is not a life , it is a video- game, and the more people complain, the more it seems people want to live in the game ? People who have been effected by the exploiting have left the game, the people still playing have no one to blame but themselves, no matter who is cheating.

seriously don't understand why this is even a discussion, log off , unsub., play shadowbane :)

Originally posted by solareus

As far as I can tell, Darkfall is a "video - game" which is no different then any other" video-game" which has been exploited. Every player of any game would think they are more important then anyone elese. Darkfall is no different, it is not a life , it is a video- game, and the more people complain, the more it seems people want to live in the game ? People who have been effected by the exploiting have left the game, the people still playing have no one to blame but themselves, no matter who is cheating.

seriously don't understand why this is even a discussion, log off , unsub., play shadowbane :)

haha shadowbane :P

As a teenager (YEARS ago) I got bored with a few FPS games and created speed, high jump, and the other usual crap...and was involved with a teleport program. Thankfully for me and everybody else I moved on after growing up, and now quit games I become bored with instead of ruining the experience for others.

From those experiences, I figured out the best way for developers to prevent hacking is to receive programs hackers have created. There is a lot of "thinking outside the box" to create a few of the hacks, and while the devs are just as smart, they may not have thought about some of the loopholes. With MMOs they can sneak patches in behind the scenes to stop most of the hacks, but not all. Several of the hacks we made were done in a way to not be detected by server logs or other detection methods - aka within the boundaries of the game in different scenarios. If the smart folks manage to create those type programs the only way to stop it is by catching them in the act.

Furthermore, companies have legal issues banning paid accounts if the only evidence is a video or screenshot. Videos and screenshots only help the companies choose individuals to monitor. Nearly all new games (notably with starter companies) have rampant cheating problems to start out with; after a couple weeks the kiddie hacks are stopped, but the other stuff takes more time. I assure you cheating was just as common in many of the other MMOs in the beginning, but those games were not as heavily based on PvP, thus people did not notice as often (or anger them as much).

Updated the main post with yet another hacker video! :D

Updated the OP with more information about exploiters getting away with exploiting...

I love this game I am not like the trolls looking for each and every update and rip it apart

But yes here is lot of hacking , exploiting and macroing going on in the game and its a matter of time things will turn for the worse

1) Speed ,stamina hackers and teleporters are still very much active .Contrary to what Tasos says AV dos not have an active way of detecting hacks .They mostly rely on GM reporting.

2) For a skill based game unfortunately its a skill grind game Therefore peoplr feel the need to macro.

     a) Press numlock leave your character across a wall or tree  ,Your sprint an run level goes up ( I did it)

     b) Go to chaos stone, kill red afk players and skill up your weapons skills , leave your character when not playing

          peopel will kill u over and over threby increasing your survival skill ( this has been fixed in the new patch but will make life miserable for new players versus those who have skilled up like this . Newbies wont stand a chance)

   c) People who have built cities have activated /exploied towers in such a way that they zap low damage to all in the vicinity

       There is proof of at least 10 clans over 100s of player sitting there getting zapped and healing . Effect of such macroing increases rigor.

   d) the alignment system has made it impossible for solo PVP players to survive .Get in a clan or get out.

   e) Lets not get to the daily server crash ( u loose your mounts if u happen to be on one ), sync issue s, lag issues,

   f)  The par between people who have managed to skill up way up the ladder ( by whatever means ) vrsus newbies is so big that each time a newbie get killed so fast he feels there was a hack/exploit involved . In the current situation newbies cant level up to these skilled players in a month or so ( unless palying 14 to 20 hours a day is a norm)

g) YEs gold sellers are in officially selling fom min $20 to $200 gold .If u looking for quick money reallocation to China is a good option.

The list is endless acid pools. I havent used any 3rd party programs to macro myself but in game mechanics I have used .There is no option or you will be left behind.

I like the game I actively PVP , explore the world but hacks exploits and macros are killing it .AV needs to actively look at the grind in its skill.The grind has to be removed .

Personally I will stick  for a month or two.Many of us are waiting for a new EU server to hop on and make a fresh start

 That not disco lighting or fireworks those things are suppoed to zap and kill u but as u can see players are busy farming rigor

teh damage is low and u heal fast

Originally posted by sassoonss

I love this game I am not like the trolls looking for each and every update and rip it apart

 

But yes here is lot of hacking , exploiting and macroing going on in the game and its a matter of time things will turn for the worse

 

1) Speed ,stamina hackers and teleporters are still very much active .Contrary to what Tasos says AV dos not have an active way of detecting hacks .They mostly rely on GM reporting.

2) For a skill based game unfortunately its a skill grind game Therefore peoplr feel the need to macro.

     a) Press numlock leave your character across a wall or tree  ,Your sprint an run level goes up ( I did it)

     b) Go to chaos stone, kill red afk players and skill up your weapons skills , leave your character when not playing

          peopel will kill u over and over threby increasing your survival skill ( this has been fixed in the new patch but will make life miserable for new players versus those who have skilled up like this . Newbies wont stand a chance)

   c) People who have built cities have activated /exploied towers in such a way that they zap low damage to all in the vicinity

       There is proof of at least 10 clans over 100s of player sitting there getting zapped and healing . Effect of such macroing increases rigor.

   d) the alignment system has made it impossible for solo PVP players to survive .Get in a clan or get out.

   e) Lets not get to the daily server crash ( u loose your mounts if u happen to be on one ), sync issue s, lag issues,

   f)  The par between people who have managed to skill up way up the ladder ( by whatever means ) vrsus newbies is so big that each time a newbie get killed so fast he feels there was a hack/exploit involved . In the current situation newbies cant level up to these skilled players in a month or so ( unless palying 14 to 20 hours a day is a norm)

g) YEs gold sellers are in officially selling fom min $20 to $200 gold .If u looking for quick money reallocation to China is a good option.

 

 

The list is endless acid pools. I havent used any 3rd party programs to macro myself but in game mechanics I have used .There is no option or you will be left behind.

I like the game I actively PVP , explore the world but hacks exploits and macros are killing it .AV needs to actively look at the grind in its skill.The grind has to be removed .

Personally I will stick  for a month or two.Many of us are waiting for a new EU server to hop on and make a fresh start

 

 That not disco lighting or fireworks those things are suppoed to zap and kill u but as u can see players are busy farming rigor

teh damage is low and u heal fast

 

Yep, agree

 If I still played (which I don't) I'd really be by now.