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I think it's quite simple, at least for me when I tried lotro and WAR, it's the feeling of running around with your guy and using skills that is way off. It feels sluggish and not as responsive as in wow and the animations are not as nice. This is basic stuff, this is what you will be doing the rest of your guy's life, (running around and killing stuff), so this is what a company should spen a majority of their time on perfecting. I'm not saying that WoW is perfect in this regard, but at least it plays as good as most single player games (in some cases better) - this I cannot say for the other mmorpgs. Get the movement and gameplay right and the masses will stay. |
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All these silly EXCUSES to explain the simple plain truth. Wow is by far the best and most complete polished mmorpg that people like to PAY for. www.xfire.com just see the Stats. EVERY DAY it proves (in the western world as Xfire is not even used by Chinese), that it outperforms in playing hours EVERY other game on the PC on line.. See Nr 1 ? It is a game you HAVE to pay 15 dollars for EACH month. For 4 LONG years now (and "one" hic-up day when the servers were down). See Nr 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ,7, 8, 9, 10 etc ....?... These games you can play on the internet for FREE. ---- REALITY CHECK. World of Warcraft is the game by the BEST PC game designer/developper the PC has known for the last 15 years. Now look at this : http://www.xfire.com/genre/mmo/massively_multiplayer_online/ (select on rank) .... and look at the difference between number 1 .... and 2 (and that one is even free to play ) .... And you thought that the clunky unresponsive combat moves of a PVE lacking War and AoC would counter this ??? They are not made by Blizzard, but a bunch of whacky amateurs with very big mouths and ditto egos. Other games don't even walk the way their designers talk. --- No use to cite the analogy with Britney Spears of Mac Donalds: just look at the proper industry where Wow competes in. You don't PAY each month to listen to Britney either.
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Originally posted by beaverz
Shaking head. |
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Originally posted by Raekon
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Darkor_hXc
 Novice Member
Joined: 7/09/05
Death to the False Emperor, Skulls for the Skull Throne. |
Tons of Fanbois everywhere...... How can you say "no game managed to compete with WOW as of yet". As a game WoW have good rivals but the Advertising its what really counts here, not the game it self.
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uh you uh, know those like, 3 people who left blizzard. yeah they sure went on to big things didnt they. im mean clearly they were the critical parts of the team. yeah. yeah i bet they fucking wish they still had their piece of that pie now! jesus lol barely anyone has left blizzard at all, ever. you know why? because blizzard is a fucking class company to work for, one of the top rated in the whole games industry. why the fuck would anyone want to leave a job where they have one of the cushtiest dev houses, a huge gym, pool, gardens, pool tables etc. Oh and health insurance, pretty sure blizz are one of the only ones who do that as standard. mm yeah but lets go leave and make this shitty game and then oh its dead wish I hadnt sold my stocks Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man! |
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Originally posted by Darkor_hXc
Advertising doesn't explain why people want to pay 15 bucks a month to just play a PC game that massively. ... shows that every day more on line playing time is invested in Wow than in any other game .... that is even FREE to play. And xfire is western based btw. Give it up : false argument. Advertising shit doesn't sell monthly subscriptions for 4 years in an industry where a game lasts 6 months on average.
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Originally posted by Darkor_hXc
That's the dumbest thing I've read today. Advertising can do a lot, but it sure as hell won't make a game last for 4+ years.  |
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Darkor_hXc
Novice Member
Joined: 7/09/05
Death to the False Emperor, Skulls for the Skull Throne. |
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Advertising doesn't explain why people want to pay 15 bucks a month to just play a PC game that massively. ... shows that every day more on line playing time is invested in Wow than in any other game .... that is even FREE to play. And xfire is western based btw. Give it up : false argument. Advertising shit doesn't sell monthly subscriptions for 4 years in an industry where a game lasts 6 months on average.
If you go to the library and read some books maybe someday you can understand how "Mass Management" actually works. BTW wtf with Xfire, how can you even know if those stats are real?? Are you the kind of person that believe in everything you see?? Have you ever thought that Xfire and those Stats are nothing but "Advertising/Propaganda"??
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Originally posted by xeniar Wait? So the point of raiding now and what decides its difficulty are optional achievements which give you nothing? So your saying if a game made an achievement for a raid that was beat 90 bosses in 3 seconds which would be impossible, then it would therefore be the most challenging end game out there? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. BAsed on numbers Since TBC the raids have gotten easier. Look at vanilla wow, how many progressed, look at TBC slightly more did, Now in northrend you have guilds full of retarded monkeys clearing every raid.
youve said exactly what i wanted to say. the achievments are meaningless its show to show your epeen to other players. and with a good grind most of em are not a chalange the brutal gladiator. m8 let me tell you that me as a PVE prot warrior almost had the gladiator title season 1 (i was off by a few), yes things have changed now i know that but its not a chalange. people with brutal gladiotor stuff have: no job, too much time on their hands, good gear, and are concentrated enough not to fuck up shit. and alot of luck is also a part of PvP (you cannot control absolutely evry aspect of the whole fight)
Vanila WoW was hardcore PVE we had to do bosses night after night after night. in tbc it went down hill with a few walls here and there. raids now are nothing. the difrent achievment settings are a aim then but as far as i know most of the guilds on my server now have completed alot of it. so your server m8 must be bullshit. The only hardcore PvE in Vanilla WoW was couple of bugged BwL fights, C'thun before it got nerfed and couple of Naxxramas fights. The rest was easy and cleared very fast. I was raiding from early 2005 and really don't know about this night after night raiding. Maybe if you were in some mediocre casual guild. But the real hardcore guilds cleared the content fast. As I said only exception to this is C'thun and The Four Horsemen. And those are just 2 fights. Both M'uru and Kil' Jaeden are better and harder if you are really looking for something hardcore. 'Most powerful is he who controls his own power.' |
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I believe that one of the biggest factors that influenced the flopping of AoC and similar new releases is feature creeping. The publisher demands too many features for the developer to complete in time. The game is subsequently released too early and the game is a shell in comparison to its design which is furtherly made worse with large amounts of hype and disappointment. MMORPGs as successfull as WoW were released as polished products relative to their design features and aims (bar the natural amount of minor bugs). Blizzard will not hesitate to release a product late, it's always "ready when it's ready." This extra time is crucial. First impressions from players and the media are the most important ones when it comes to a game taking off, these reviews and opinions will resonate the most when potential players look for and research into an MMORPG to play. WoW has had time to develop upon its release success, adding so many new features and polishing old ones. It is a complete powerhouse. New MMORPGs are expected to be of similar, if not better quality when it comes to content and features to WoW. Consumers will no longer compare new MMORPGs to the release version of WoW, but instead the current feature-riddled gold-plated version of it. Developers must now face this very high standard in order to satisfy your average player. |
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Originally posted by warty
Sir. I think you're referring to the founders of Arenanet and I detest your fanboyish rant. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_O%27Brien_(game_developer) " en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Strain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Wyatt These men are highly skilled professionals and you, sir, are a schmuck! The game was a success - hence the sequal. Playing: EvE |
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Highest number of subs does not equal "best" MMORPG. It does make it the most popular, as well as one of themost profitable most likely. WoW introduced an accessible game at just the right time; while EQ2 created a new engine (that half of the computers at the time couldn't run on decent settings) and group-required content all over the place, WoW came in with a game that almost any machine could run, with tons of solo-friendly content. Add in the PvP opportunities they created over time, and they suddenly had a game with polished PvE and some PvP elements. WoW isn't #1 due to the graphics, or the engine, or the content, or the features. IT is #1 because it does everything just well enough to keep people coming back, and maintains a large enough playerbase that both new and returning players can jump in and have people to play with. WoW will, in time, die (by that I mean fade into relative obscurity with drastically diminished subs). People will continue to play the original WoW and lament on how much better things were "back then", just as today's purists talk about UO, DAOC, and EQ1 during their primes. However, I expect Blizzard will have a new MMORPG out long before then. |
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lets not forgot Guild Wars is the online game to even come close to having the player base of WoW. They put together a great game. |
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Originally posted by Bellise
youve said exactly what i wanted to say. the achievments are meaningless its show to show your epeen to other players. and with a good grind most of em are not a chalange the brutal gladiator. m8 let me tell you that me as a PVE prot warrior almost had the gladiator title season 1 (i was off by a few), yes things have changed now i know that but its not a chalange. people with brutal gladiotor stuff have: no job, too much time on their hands, good gear, and are concentrated enough not to fuck up shit. and alot of luck is also a part of PvP (you cannot control absolutely evry aspect of the whole fight)
Vanila WoW was hardcore PVE we had to do bosses night after night after night. in tbc it went down hill with a few walls here and there. raids now are nothing. the difrent achievment settings are a aim then but as far as i know most of the guilds on my server now have completed alot of it. so your server m8 must be bullshit. The only hardcore PvE in Vanilla WoW was couple of bugged BwL fights, C'thun before it got nerfed and couple of Naxxramas fights. The rest was easy and cleared very fast. I was raiding from early 2005 and really don't know about this night after night raiding. Maybe if you were in some mediocre casual guild. But the real hardcore guilds cleared the content fast. As I said only exception to this is C'thun and The Four Horsemen. And those are just 2 fights. Both M'uru and Kil' Jaeden are better and harder if you are really looking for something hardcore. Xeniar is correct, MANY raiding guilds that were hardcore raided night after night after night, maybe stopping once or twice during the week, if that. Take for example the original Naxxramas race, between Nihilum and Death and Taxes. They were, at the time, the two top guilds in the world. They were the most driven, arguable the best. (on a side note, a player on my old server transferred over to D&T to become a third string pally healer-he got extremely geared extremely quick then sold the toon for almost $2k) I know that during that race, D&T raided every single day, up until they cleared the instance. There motto was: If you get burned out or want to quit, well we have thousands of applicants ready at the drop of a hat to fill your spot. Naxxramas, not only required 40 people as opposed to today's 25 man raids in WoW, also required stacking frost resist, and having some mandatory classes in the raid, unlike today. The four horseman, to this day, hold the title for the longest time an encounter lay undefeated from the first time it was encountered, at 7 weeks. So, really you could say that the hardcore guilds were raiding 5-6 times and week for several months. Yea pve is simple once you understand the strategy, but people didn't understand the strategy for months during naxx.
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Originally posted by TheHavok
youve said exactly what i wanted to say. the achievments are meaningless its show to show your epeen to other players. and with a good grind most of em are not a chalange the brutal gladiator. m8 let me tell you that me as a PVE prot warrior almost had the gladiator title season 1 (i was off by a few), yes things have changed now i know that but its not a chalange. people with brutal gladiotor stuff have: no job, too much time on their hands, good gear, and are concentrated enough not to fuck up shit. and alot of luck is also a part of PvP (you cannot control absolutely evry aspect of the whole fight)
Vanila WoW was hardcore PVE we had to do bosses night after night after night. in tbc it went down hill with a few walls here and there. raids now are nothing. the difrent achievment settings are a aim then but as far as i know most of the guilds on my server now have completed alot of it. so your server m8 must be bullshit. The only hardcore PvE in Vanilla WoW was couple of bugged BwL fights, C'thun before it got nerfed and couple of Naxxramas fights. The rest was easy and cleared very fast. I was raiding from early 2005 and really don't know about this night after night raiding. Maybe if you were in some mediocre casual guild. But the real hardcore guilds cleared the content fast. As I said only exception to this is C'thun and The Four Horsemen. And those are just 2 fights. Both M'uru and Kil' Jaeden are better and harder if you are really looking for something hardcore. Xeniar is correct, MANY raiding guilds that were hardcore raided night after night after night, maybe stopping once or twice during the week, if that. Take for example the original Naxxramas race, between Nihilum and Death and Taxes. They were, at the time, the two top guilds in the world. They were the most driven, arguable the best. (on a side note, a player on my old server transferred over to D&T to become a third string pally healer-he got extremely geared extremely quick then sold the toon for almost $2k) I know that during that race, D&T raided every single day, up until they cleared the instance. There motto was: If you get burned out or want to quit, well we have thousands of applicants ready at the drop of a hat to fill your spot. Naxxramas, not only required 40 people as opposed to today's 25 man raids in WoW, also required stacking frost resist, and having some mandatory classes in the raid, unlike today. The four horseman, to this day, hold the title for the longest time an encounter lay undefeated from the first time it was encountered, at 7 weeks. So, really you could say that the hardcore guilds were raiding 5-6 times and week for several months. Yea pve is simple once you understand the strategy, but people didn't understand the strategy for months during naxx.
No, he is not correct and if you were there yourself as I was , you would know. He said that Vanilla WoW was hardcore. No, it was not. There were 2 bosses that were hardcore and those were C'thun and The Four Horsemen. Both Nihilum and Death and Taxes were raiding night after night on those 2 bosses and that's it. Every other boss in Vanilla WoW was killed very fast and in terms of fight complexity Vanilla bosses were inferior to TBC bosses by far - 2 exceptions are posted above. People should really take away those nostalgia goggles they are wearing when trying to prove a point. And all this is coming from a raider in 1 of WoWs top world guilds. 'Most powerful is he who controls his own power.' |
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Originally posted by Bellise
When you have the volume of guilds attacking raid content that there are in a game the size of warcraft it isn't surprising that encounters do not go very long being undefeated. Vanilla wow was pretty tough for its time. Sure encounters got better, but there were a lot of challenging encounters. Vaelastrza for example was a major pain in the ass for a great number of guilds. Maybe it isn't hardcore if your view of hardcore is the extreme of stumping everyone for months in a game with millions of people, sure. Few things in when viewed in that manner are going to be.
Not that I see how this is where other games failed to compete |
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Haven't read all before this so maybe someone else mentioned it but I assumed that the continuing success to WoW is the social aspect. The peer pressure aspect. I assume many start to play and continue to play WoW because all their friends do. It doesn't even matter if a player and all their friends are bored of WoW and would have more fun playing another game, the fact is they're established and having fun as a group together, its a social thing, why leave. Its not about the game. Its not about whats more fun. WoW at this point functions more as a social network than as a game, imo. |
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Originally posted by dhayes68
Amazing, isn't it? Paying $15 a month to do something you can do for free on Facebook.
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Originally posted by dhayes68
People left Ultima online when all their friends where playing. They left everquest when the same applied then. You can see the decline in many mmos and combine that with record breaking sales of mmo releases and what do you have?
Maybe people have not left for other games, because other games just don't measure up. We can speculate that millions of people won't give up a game (despite it happening in many other mmos previously) or we can just look at the condition most games are released at to see how they compare. Two mmos last year got somewhere around a million people each to try them in the first couple of months when they released. I think that shows that people are willing to leave for a new game, but what is being offered just does not compete with the current marketplace.
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Originally posted by Daffid011
People left Ultima online when all their friends where playing. They left everquest when the same applied then. You can see the decline in many mmos and combine that with record breaking sales of mmo releases and what do you have?
Maybe people have not left for other games, because other games just don't measure up. We can speculate that millions of people won't give up a game (despite it happening in many other mmos previously) or we can just look at the condition most games are released at to see how they compare. Two mmos last year got somewhere around a million people each to try them in the first couple of months when they released. I think that shows that people are willing to leave for a new game, but what is being offered just does not compete with the current marketplace.
Yep, how can you compete when the majority of WoW's customers are (presumably) satisfied?
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Originally posted by Daffid011
When you have the volume of guilds attacking raid content that there are in a game the size of warcraft it isn't surprising that encounters do not go very long being undefeated. Vanilla wow was pretty tough for its time. Sure encounters got better, but there were a lot of challenging encounters. Vaelastrza for example was a major pain in the ass for a great number of guilds. Maybe it isn't hardcore if your view of hardcore is the extreme of stumping everyone for months in a game with millions of people, sure. Few things in when viewed in that manner are going to be.
Not that I see how this is where other games failed to compete I am not arguing that it was not tough. But I really wouldn't give Vanilla WoW as the example of how hardcore raiding should look like. Sure, there were some interesting encounters - the ones I mentioned or Vaelastrasz - but overall the first raids and encounters were tank and spank fights with very little creativity or complexity. Note - I am not saying it was bad or anything, hell I have fond memories of doing Molten Core or BwL or any other Vanilla WoW raid, but I don't let the nostalgia to prevent me from seeing that those raids lacked a lot. Burning Crusade introduced us to more complex fights overall than Vanilla WoW and raiding also got harder. And I still think Sunwell Plateau was better dungeon than Naxxramas. Killing Kil'Jaeden , hell that was the most epic moment in WoW to this day for me. And to talk about point of easy raiding in WotLK. I'll judge that after we finish Icecrown.
'Most powerful is he who controls his own power.' |
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WoW has titties. No other game can offer tits. |
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 Because they suck. Too many incompetent game designers who think they are up to the task and fail miserably. In the process wasting half a decade of their life on trash, I can only imagine its a great blow to their ego which is why they cling so hard to their failed ideas. |
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Dudek28
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 8/13/04
There is nothing like a trail of blood to find your way back home. |
let me tell you why. Blizzard created its own market.. im not talking about the mmo market.. because when blizzard came into the so called "MMO" market all the games out at the time have been pretty much the same as they are coming out now. They are what I call Traditional MMOs. WoW being far from a traditional MMO because its not a niche. where MMO's before wow were considered niche games where they are not for everyone.. Now what blizzard did was create an MMO for everyone stepping out of that niche. They got about 90% of their players that have never before played an MMO before to play wow and love it ( i know i cant prove that but its an an estimate off the top of my head) They loved it because it was catored to them. It was very easy to pick up and play from the very first time you log in.. They did everything right to cator to the casual gamer aswell as i guess a more hardcore gamer who raided 5-7 nights a week.. They didnt care about the bugs because they were not THAT noticable.. I personally dont remeber ANY bugs at launch that took away from the gameplay.. The only bug I remember is the pally seal bug since I played a pally as my first toon. I didnt know it was a bug because it didnt seem like one. The seal just did alittle to much damange.. The reason no game can compete with wow is because the people that are playing wow are not looking for a new mmo. They love what they have and they wont leave for a wow clone because they got the best one already.. There is a game that will take a big chunk of the players from wow and thats blizzards own next MMO.
thats just my 2 cents. |
